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Michael - The Great Album Debate

People should really try to be less provocative some times, especially when it's obvious that what some of the things they are saying is only for making other people angry. And please. Don't delete this post too. It's very hard for me to sit here write in English. Thank you.:)
 
First of all, no personal insults has/had been made by me, so I don't 100% get why my post was edited, but meh.

And Pentum, you act like 90% of all the people who listen to MJ are doubters. You're saying that because of a huge amount of people doubting/disliking the songs they shouldn't be released, yet I say there are probably a huge amount of people who wouldn't mind those songs getting released and enjoy them.

It's sad that alot of people think this way about the songs, but I and others can't help it. We believe what we believe and so do you guys, nothing wrong with it.

I do want to say that, if they decide to release the rest of the songs, they should bring out more proof/anything they have and the original demo's. It might make everyone more happy.

So yeah, I think we all CAN agree that Sony/The Estate messed this up (The proof part) for doubters AND believers. And before someone questions me, I still believe them to be MJ, I'm just saying that some legit proof would make alot of people happy and might end this issue.
 
Pentum said:
Would MJ allow songs some of his fans didn't hear his voice in be released? I don't think so.

It's common sense to think that they should stay hidden forever and not released.
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Well I think if MJ recorded a song and some fans didnt think it was him he would release it becuase it is him.
but either way neither you or I can't say for sure what he would do in that case. To make our case here.

Would he want fake songs released. I think Everyone who belived they were fake would say no.
Its fultile to debate what others want or should want. It lead this thread off topic. and into personal attacks

Post edited for claification
 
qbee said:
Well I think if MJ recorded a song and some fans didnt think it was him he would release it becuase it is him.
but either way neither you or I can't say for sure what he would do in that case. To make our case here.

Would he want fake songs released. I think Everyone who belived they were fake would say no. Or people who doubted and were nto sure might also say no. But people who belived they are real would say yes ... So it fultile to debate what others want or should want. It lead this thread off topic. and into personal attacks
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???? He wouldnt release these songs if they sounded like this! It's not hard to understand.
 
IvoDT said:
I can agree for some parts with the release of the rest of the cascio songs making "more(?)" fans mad, but I think a song like Burn Tonight released in the Summer would definitely be a smash hit/club hit. It's got so much dance and rhythm in it and it's incredibly catchy so I would really hate the fact if they never released that one. Same goes for songs like Black Widow (of which, yes sony, I heard more than the leaked part) that really are awesome tracks if finished, in my opinion. It could be "MJ's" last rock song for all we know.
Same goes for All Right, Stay, All I Need, Water and Ready 2 Win. All are very nice songs.

The ones I could agree with NOT to release (because of what I heard I think it's too incomplete, so not the vocal issue) are Fall In Love and Soldier Boy. They just aren't finished/good enough to be put on an album.

So yeah, in short, more cascio releases could make more fans mad, but at the same time it could make other fans, like me, very happy. =)
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IvoDT said:
First of all, no personal insults has/had been made by me, so I don't 100% get why my post was edited, but meh.

And Pentum, you act like 90% of all the people who listen to MJ are doubters. You're saying that because of a huge amount of people doubting/disliking the songs they shouldn't be released, yet I say there are probably a huge amount of people who wouldn't mind those songs getting released and enjoy them.

It's sad that alot of people think this way about the songs, but I and others can't help it. We believe what we believe and so do you guys, nothing wrong with it.

I do want to say that, if they decide to release the rest of the songs, they should bring out more proof/anything they have and the original demo's. It might make everyone more happy.

So yeah, I think we all CAN agree that Sony/The Estate messed this up (The proof part) for doubters AND believers. And before someone questions me, I still believe them to be MJ, I'm just saying that some legit proof would make alot of people happy and might end this issue.
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Michael and a smash hit: Wouldn't that be great? I'd really love for that to happen.

But for me the ultimate nightmare is a smash-hit for Michael, when someone else is singing it! I would hate that! Don't even want to think about it.
 
IvoDT said:
First of all, no personal insults has/had been made by me, so I don't 100% get why my post was edited, but meh.
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I was just getting ready to send a PM but i had other PM's to send out and please do not publically call out a mod for moderating you your 'post or a thread. It is against MJJC policy to do that. Part of your post was edited becuase it was in reply to a deleted post so it was obsolete and wasnt needed. What does meh mean ?
 
"Why release more just to satisfy some of us? Would MJ allow songs some of his fans didn't hear his voice in be released? I don't think so."

This I stand for. He was a perfectionist.
 
teli-mj said:
People should really try to be less provocative some times, especially when it's obvious that what some of the things they are saying is only for making other people angry. And please. Don't delete this post too. It's very hard for me to sit here write in English. Thank you.:)
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I agree with what you said minus the part that was delted for publically discussion the moderation of your post.
that is also against MJJC policy and for good reason. its direspectful to the mods who are trying to do a fair job here.
I wont delete your post for stating your view on people posting provoking posts. I also dont like it.

I think people should be less provoking in this thread and also I think people should discuss the topic and not belittle each other. :)
 
Slave To The Rhythm
Blue Gangsta
Do You Know where Your Children Are
Escape
If You Don't Love Me
Love Never Felt So Good
I Am A Loser
Can't Get Tour Weight Off Of Me
Days in Gloucestershire
Shout

There is a non controversial album with smash hits.
 
Pentum said:
"Why release more just to satisfy some of us? Would MJ allow songs some of his fans didn't hear his voice in be released? I don't think so."

This I stand for. He was a perfectionist.
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you have every right to think they shouldnt be released . but others think they should be released becuase they think they do sound like Michael and they like them. They just think they sound different. Fact is neither you, I or belivers have any say in the matter only Sony does so no need to argue over something neither one has control over. Just know not everyone is going to agree with you and they dont have to agree. Your opinion is noted :)
 
qbee said:
Well I think if MJ recorded a song and some fans didnt think it was him he would release it becuase it is him.
but either way neither you or I can't say for sure what he would do in that case. To make our case here.

Would he want fake songs released. I think Everyone who belived they were fake would say no. Or people who doubted and were nto sure might also say no. But people who belived they are real would say yes ... So it fultile to debate what others want or should want. It lead this thread off topic. and into personal attacks
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So believers would say they want fake songs that are not by Michael Jackson released as Michael Jackson?

That's so not true (Just saying).




I will add this and say if they do release more Cascio songs (Which I really think they will) they need to include a 2nd disc or a voucher to download the extras so that way the Doubters/Anti Cascio's see that it is MJ.
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
So believers would say they want fake songs that are not by Michael Jackson released as Michael Jackson?

That's so not true just saying.
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Judging by the rest of the paragraph and everything else she has said I think qbee just typed 'fake songs' accidentally in the first sentence there.
 
How can people hope for the other Cascio songs not to be released? They are among the very last recordings MJ made; even if the songs are no classics, and even with all of their flaws, they still, at the very least, have enormous historical importance.

The irony of course is that if none of the Cascio songs had been included on "Michael", fans would be clamouring for their release now, and they'd be angry at Sony for holding on to them.
 
kreen said:
How can people hope for the other Cascio songs not to be released? They are among the very last recordings MJ made; even if the songs are no classics, and even with all of their flaws, they still, at the very least, have enormous historical importance.

The irony of course is that if none of the Cascio songs had been included on "Michael", fans would be clamouring for their release now, and they'd be angry at Sony for holding on to them.
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If Hold My Hand was the song to premiere first I think this debate would not be happening but since it was a Cascio song things went to hell.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
If Hold My Hand was the song to premiere first I think this debate would not be happening but since it was a Cascio song things went to hell.
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Exactly. Because the Cascio songs don't sound like Michael to many fans. It's just that when fans heard them on the album, then the controversy would have started as opposed to the first song premiere.
 
kreen said:
How can people hope for the other Cascio songs not to be released? They are among the very last recordings MJ made; even if the songs are no classics, and even with all of their flaws, they still, at the very least, have enormous historical importance.

The irony of course is that if none of the Cascio songs had been included on "Michael", fans would be clamouring for their release now, and they'd be angry at Sony for holding on to them.
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Despite all the damage they've done and all the negative publicity they created and the fact they caused the album to fail you still want them released? Even though there is still an ongoing controversy? And even though many of Michael's fans can't recognise their idol on the tracks? What kind of business sense is that? There are far superior, non controversial songs. And besides, if fans want to hear the remaining Cascio tracks then they can do so as they all leaked. You know why some fans don't want them released - because we think they aren't MJ, so why even ask this?
 
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kreen said:
How can people hope for the other Cascio songs not to be released? They are among the very last recordings MJ made; even if the songs are no classics, and even with all of their flaws, they still, at the very least, have enormous historical importance.

The irony of course is that if none of the Cascio songs had been included on "Michael", fans would be clamouring for their release now, and they'd be angry at Sony for holding on to them.
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Stepping aside from peoples personal opinions on the tracks, would you really want this uproar and huge division of the fan community to happen yet again for the sake of a few songs which, if they are actually real, below Michaels standard for releases?
 
kreen said:
How can people hope for the other Cascio songs not to be released? They are among the very last recordings MJ made; even if the songs are no classics, and even with all of their flaws, they still, at the very least, have enormous historical importance.
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People hope for that because of several different reason, among which:

a. they think they are not authentic
b. they think they are only partially authentic
c. they think they are authentic but nevertheless think they sound 'off' (and not in a good way)
d. they think they are simply very weak songs not worthy of a placement on an MJ album.
e. they do not want another album to be marred by controversy.

And even if you think the tracks are real, I do not see the historical value of 12 songs of which even the producers that worked on them say that the vocals sound off because they had to 'process' them too much. Should they then not have been released in their original form, as the very early demos that they supposedly were, rather than in this butchered form?

Btw, based on the handwritten notes that were shown in the Murray docu, MJ certainly did not seem to have them on his mind during his final days (I wonder why..).

The irony of course is that if none of the Cascio songs had been included on "Michael", fans would be clamouring for their release now, and they'd be angry at Sony for holding on to them.
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Not really - we would have had an album full of authentic songs that would have made everybody happy. What reason would their have been for people to be angry?
 
I have a question if anyone knows please help me out :)

Does anyone know if Breaking News was released as a CD single or vinyl because on it's Wikipedia they put it.


Thanks
 
Deniro UK said:
Stepping aside from peoples personal opinions on the tracks, would you really want this uproar and huge division of the fan community to happen yet again for the sake of a few songs which, if they are actually real, below Michaels standard for releases?
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I don't want 9 MJ songs to be lost to history forever: when it comes to the artists I like, I'm a completist, and I want EVERYTHING released, even the sub-par stuff. As for the big uproar that would surely follow, we can all make it disappear by not coming on these fan forums, which are the only place where any uproar exists; in the "real" world, the debate lasted about 2 days...
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
Does anyone know if Breaking News was released as a CD single or vinyl because on it's Wikipedia they put it.
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All fake CD-Rs/bootlegged Vinyls, most prominently from the scammer "brazilcds" on eBay. The files were leaked and they burnt them on CD, that's it.
 
kreen said:
I don't want 9 MJ songs to be lost to history forever because of some conspiracy theorists : when it comes to the artists I like, I'm a completist, and I want EVERYTHING released, even the sub-par stuff. As for the big uproar that would surely follow, we can all make it disappear by not coming on these fan forums, which are the only place where any uproar exists; in the "real" world, the debate lasted about 2 days...
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You know this is actually really offensive. If that's truly how you feel then maybe you should just stop coming here? It's no more a theory that the songs are fake than it is they are real. It may be your opinion that they are 9 MJ songs but many fans have an equally valid opinion that they aren't and neither side has been explicitly proven to be right. You are talking about doubters like they are lower than you. It isn't about believing some conspiracy theory. It is about the fact that we don't hear MJ. And the debate certainly lasted longer than two days. If that was the case then they wouldn't have taken us seriously by removing Monster from Cirque. You need to stop belittling people. Please.

I also think it is somewhat hypocritical when you used to say things like this: "As for me, my position regarding the Cascio tracks, when all is said and done, is this : "I'm not convinced they're authentic, but until proof emerges that they are not, I'll reluctantly treat them as MJ tracks"." And I don't get why you support the Cascio tracks so much when you have made statements like the one below:

"Michael Jackson - Invincible
I second this choice : still my choice for the worst album of all time, based on the time it took to record andthe number of talented people involved."
 
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kreen said:
How can people hope for the other Cascio songs not to be released? They are among the very last recordings MJ made; even if the songs are no classics, and even with all of their flaws, they still, at the very least, have enormous historical importance.
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Because we don't even know if Michael Jackson recorded them. It's as simple as that.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
So believers would say they want fake songs that are not by Michael Jackson released as Michael Jackson?

That's so not true (Just saying).
I will add this and say if they do release more Cascio songs (Which I really think they will) they need to include a 2nd disc or a voucher to download the extras so that way the Doubters/Anti Cascio's see that it is MJ.
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I didnt mean belivers would want fake songs - I mistated that
But people who belived they are real would say yes ...
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meaning they belive the songs are real not fake. = they are not saying MJ wants want fake songs

BTW I edited my post for clarification it was confusing
 
kreen said:
I don't want 9 MJ songs to be lost to history forever because of some conspiracy theorists : when it comes to the artists I like, I'm a completist, and I want EVERYTHING released, even the sub-par stuff. As for the big uproar that would surely follow, we can all make it disappear by not coming on these fan forums, which are the only place where any uproar exists; in the "real" world, the debate lasted about 2 days...
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Okay firstly for me and many people on this forum MJ is a huge part of our "real" world, and the fact that these songs tore that part of it in half when they first came out is a big deal. This was the first release of new music in years, the first posthumous album, and for me it was the first time I got to experience a 'new' Michael Jackson album as I was too young when Invincible came out. That whole experience, that whole excitement got destroyed the second Breaking News premiered. I actually thought it was MJ initially, probably out of hope more than anything, but as time has gone on and I've heard more tracks I've changed my opinion. Even though I could enjoy the songs at first, the fact there was so much up roar in the community, people arguing, throwing abuse at eachother, so much tension - it harmed the fanbase on the forums and online perhaps more than you can imagine.

These songs are available online anyway, every single one of them, releasing more on a new album would be suicidal as far as the Estate is concerned, it won't happen and rightfully so because the fans don't deserve to be put through that again.
 
Im the same, Michael was the first release i remeber. I was too young for Invincible, BOTDF, and History...and i wanted to believe BN was Michael but it sounds off...and you know what. I wouldnt mind if the Cascio tracks were just never released becuase they just arent in releasable fourm. You guys may say "release the original demos" but they sound like the same guy singing. As for the raw records that come straight from Eddie's basement....i dont believe they exist anymore. If they did, Sony would have demanded them. Re-mixed the songs with "Michaels" vocals and controvesy would be put to rest. But the fact that the vocals are the same sound as Jason.....that imo is more reason to hide any raw session tapes.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I have a question if anyone knows please help me out :)

Does anyone know if Breaking News was released as a CD single or vinyl because on it's Wikipedia they put it.


Thanks
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No dont think it was unless they meant the actual "michael" album was. But breaking news has never been released as a cd single or vinyl
 
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