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Michael - The Great Album Debate

ivy said:
I would classify people who write stuff like "Cascios are worse than x, y,z" as anti-Cascio group.
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Never seen that myself.

I don't think even Jason had much hate. He still has the same phone number he had 16 months ago.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Maybe because they want to protect their identities from the Anti Cascio group, or just because the experts themselves don't want to be spammed by fans or even stalked.




@Pentum So because you THINK it's not MJ that means we should all ?

Best way to end this would be if someone could hire a musicologist maybe MJJC ?

But then maybe Anti Cascio people would say those reports are fake too so yeah.
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I don't remember there was any "Anti -Cascio" group when those experts confirmed that it is Mike on the songs. Was there?
 
kreen;3615534 said:
As for you supporting the Immortal show, knock yourself out, but I think you got all excited about this project before you knew the Cascios would profit from it, and when you did find out, you just couldn't bring yourself to ruin another MJ project for yourself after missing out on the « Michael » album.
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Ah, you mean like how you got all excited about the Michael album before you knew there would be fake tracks on it, and when you heard them, you just couldn't bring yourself to ruin the experience of a new album so you convinced yourself that they are real.

:smilerolleyes:

ADKIc3mAnX;3615543 said:
Maybe because they want to protect their identities from the Anti Cascio group, or just because the experts themselves don't want to be spammed by fans or even stalked.
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That still would not explain why they did not give a proper description of the tests though.

Best way to end this would be if someone could hire a musicologist maybe MJJC ?

But then maybe Anti Cascio people would say those reports are fake too so yeah.
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Out of interest, what would you do if such a report came back and concluded that it is not Michael?
 
SoCav said:
Ah, you mean like how you got all excited about the Michael album before you knew there would be fake tracks on it, and when you heard them, you just couldn't bring yourself to ruin the experience of a new album so you convinced yourself that they are real.

:smilerolleyes:


That still would not explain why they did not give a proper description of the tests though.


Out of interest, what would you do if such a report came back and concluded that it is not Michael?
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Tell you the truth idk.

Now what would you do if it came back as Michael Jackson ?

That would mean that Sony, MJ's estate, Epic Records, and the Cascio's never lied and they got so much hate for no reason.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Tell you the truth idk.

Now what would you do if it came back as Michael Jackson ?

That would mean that Sony, MJ's estate, Epic Records, and the Cascio's never lied and they got so much hate for no reason.
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I think the only people who have been accused of lying are the Cascios. The people who made the songs I mean.
 
Ah these what ifs :timer: Better let's wait for real evidence and then let's see what if :D
 
StellaJackson said:
Just people that don't hear Michael on the songs.
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Ah yeah, that's why we have the video from Birchey & Cartman, an anti-Cascio Twitter account (https://twitter.com/#!/NEWcdCASCIOfree), an anti-Cascio website (http://www.fakemichael.com/), etc.


No anti-Cascio group? Just because you haven't founded a club and are communicating online instead, doesn't mean you aren't a group.
You have common motives and goals, there's no need for a hierarchy, it can be loose - as it is. And we can all identify people who are taking an active part in it. Examples are standing to reason.

I don't have to mention the bullying that has been taking place here and at other places because of these collective point of views, the hatred, frustration and desperation.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Tell you the truth idk.

Now what would you do if it came back as Michael Jackson ?

That would mean that Sony, MJ's estate, Epic Records, and the Cascio's never lied and they got so much hate for no reason.
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I already responded to that question at pg 1719 (in 2 posts that already were kinda repetitive, so to avoid repeating myself for a 3rd time, I will just refer to them here instead of answering. ;) )
 
Korgnex said:
Ah yeah, that's why we have the video from Birchey & Cartman, an anti-Cascio Twitter account (https://twitter.com/#!/NEWcdCASCIOfree), an anti-Cascio website (http://www.fakemichael.com/), etc.


No anti-Cascio group? Just because you haven't founded a club and are communicating online instead, doesn't mean you aren't a group.
You have common motives and goals, there's no need for a hierarchy, it can be loose - as it is. And we can all identify people who are taking an active part in it. Examples are standing to reason.

I don't have to mention the bullying that has been taking place here and at other places because of these collective point of views, the hatred, frustration and desperation.
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If any of that is going on then I personally haven't been involved in it. And I don't condone it. It isn't productive at all. It also happens on the other side too - just look at all the anti-Jackson stuff on this site. Look at the vile hatred that was coming out in the "hacking" thread. I can personally attest to the abuse that doubters received on Maximum Jackson including racism and threats of violence.

Those websites you listed aren't anti-Cascio as in against the Cascio family, they are against the songs. There is a difference. Surely anyone in their right mind would not want more songs released after the damage these ones did. And if they do release them then there must be total clarity and solid proof that they are Michael.

My only goal in this is to make sure no more Cascio songs are ever released and that those who I believe are responsible for making fraudulent tracks be held to account. There is no conceived agenda. Everything is born from the fact that we don't recognise MJ on the songs but recognise an impersonator and there is still nothing to prove that is a wrong opinion to have.
 
SoCav said:
Out of interest, what would you do if such a report came back and concluded that it is not Michael?
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show it to MJ Estate and ask them to show me theirs.

Those websites you listed aren't anti-Cascio as in against the Cascio family, they are against the songs.
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sorry Stella but you are kinda kidding yourself. If it was only about the songs, people wouldn't go on a rampage about Frank's book or mention their mother as the next person to "sell out michael" or compare the family with the people who made allegations against Michael.
 
I openly admit that I hate Cascios, the family. But it all started with the fake songs. I hate Eddie for making the fake songs and his whole family for covering up and betraying Michael. So yes, I am anti-Cascio.
 
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At least Elvis's Estate was wise enough not to fall for any forensic analysis, even if it was Elvis. They preferred to trust what their ears were telling them: does not sound as Elvis, so we don't release it.

I wish MJ's Estate had been as wise. (sigh)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
At least Elvis's Estate was wise enough not to fall for any forensic analysis, even if it was Elvis. They preferred to trust what their ears were telling them: does not sound as Elvis, so we don't release it.

I wish MJ's Estate had been as wise. (sigh)
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I personally consider MJ's estate equally responsible for this mess with those who provided the songs at them, if not more. Greedy MF!!!
 
If they are all for money and can put fakes so easily on MJ albums then why not do the same for Elvis?
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Its cause mj has always been treated differently to elvis , they treat elvis more kinder as the press & music business dont do anything to tarnsih him like they did with mj IMO
 
i just checked in with an expert analyst on the songs in question. here's what he had to say:
notme.jpg


;)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
At least Elvis's Estate was wise enough not to fall for any forensic analysis, even if it was Elvis. They preferred to trust what their ears were telling them: does not sound as Elvis, so we don't release it.

I wish MJ's Estate had been as wise. (sigh)
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Yes it would have saved a lot of grief for them and the division it has caused in the fan base becuase it doesn't sound like the Michael we all know and love. Regardless if it is him or not the shoddy production alone causes doubt in the ears of many of Michael's fans. Its causing people in here to look down on each other and ridicule each other over the views they hold on these songs .. as I can clearly see in this thread. From both sides of the issue. I hope the fans will stop demeaning each other in their comments.

The songs do not sound like Michael according to my ears. No matter if it is or not or what others may hear or believe. I hold the view of many fans it doesnt sound like Michael. Could it be .. maybe - I cant tell becuase it doesnt sound like Michael to me. That alone is disturbing. A far as Im concerned Releasing them certainly wasnt worth all the pain and division it caused in the MJ community to release them .. they arent that fantastic as they stand anyway. There were better songs they could have used that wouldn't have caused doubt - Heck even songs we know for certain are MJ are being called into question becuase of these 3 songs released. That would have never happened otherwise.
 
As far as members badgering fans in this thread to start a law suite or stop discussing it. I think that should be knocked off right now. They don't have to for your satisfaction. It serves no good purpose in this thread. but is being used to ridicule those who doubt the songs. This thread was created for fans to discuss their feeling about the songs. A lawsuit may be an option only if and when more proof comes forth ... but stop ridiculing fans in here .. They have every right to discuss their doubts in here and their concerns are worthy of discussion with or without a lawsuit. I think most believers and doubters know there is not enough credible info to use in court to support their view. Especially against a Mogul corporation like Sony. That doesn't mean their view should be dismissed as not holding any water. They make a lot of good points just as well as believers do. If and when they feel confident and have the resources to do that _ They will inform you .. They don't need you to badger them over it.
 
qbee said:
As far as members badgering fans in this thread to start a law suite or stop discussing it. I think that should be knocked off right now. They don't have to for your satisfaction. It serves no good purpose in this thread. but is being used to ridicule those who doubt the songs. This thread was created for fans to discuss their feeling about the songs. A lawsuit may be an option only if and when more proof comes forth ... but stop ridiculing fans in here .. They have every right to discuss their doubts in here and their concerns are worthy of discussion with or without a lawsuit. I think most doubters know they don't have enough credible info to use in court to support their view. Especially against a Mogul corporation like Sony. That doesn't mean their view should be dismissed as not holding any water. They make a lot of good points just as well as believers do. If and when they feel confident and have the resources to do that _ They will inform you .. They don't need you to badger them over it.
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Thank you for so much for saying this. It needed to be said. There has indeed been a lot of badgering from both sides but it is nothing like I have seen in other places thankfully. I don't agree with every moderator made decision here but at least you guys keep on top of things and don't allow things to turn like they did on another forum.

I had a long talk with a close family member a while back about this situation. He is not a fan and is someone neutral. He knows hardly anything about Michael and hadn't got a clue what a Cascio track was. I sometimes find it is good to get the opinion of someone on the outside looking in because they are less blinded by the passion that we have as fans. Our conversation lasted for several hours. We ended up going through everything. I showed him everything related to this situation. Every article, copyright registrations etc. We listened to Michael, Jason, Cascio tracks (all of them). I said I wanted his opinion and he wasn't to just say what he thought I wanted to hear. We covered absolutely everything and I couldn't possibly list all that was discussed here but here are some of the general conclusions he made. Please note these are not to be taken as fact and are simply the opinion of someone under the circumstances I just described.

- The first thing he pointed out in the songs was the "shakiness" of the voice.
- He said it is clear that some form of deception has taken place.
- There is definitely something wrong with the songs. It would seem that Jason Malachi is a very likely contender. They sound more like him than MJ. This hasn't been explained adequately.
- The statement lacks detail and seems to be pandering to fans. That may not be intentional.
- If the songs are fake, Sony are highly unlikely to be involved. Even if they have since realised this, they will never admit it.
- There are ridiculous sums of money involved which seems to be the core of all problems relating to MJ.
 
qbee said:
As far as members badgering fans in this thread to start a law suite or stop discussing it. I think that should be knocked off right now. They don't have to for your satisfaction. It serves no good purpose in this thread. but is being used to ridicule those who doubt the songs. This thread was created for fans to discuss their feeling about the songs. A lawsuit may be an option only if and when more proof comes forth ... but stop ridiculing fans in here .. They have every right to discuss their doubts in here and their concerns are worthy of discussion with or without a lawsuit. I think most doubters know they don't have enough credible info to use in court to support their view. Especially against a Mogul corporation like Sony. That doesn't mean their view should be dismissed as not holding any water. They make a lot of good points just as well as believers do. If and when they feel confident and have the resources to do that _ They will inform you .. They don't need you to badger them over it.
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Well said Qbee.

I love all your post but the bolded part some believers seem to forget. Most doubters are aware of that.

And I'm tired to read that starting a law suit against Sony it's a piece of cake.
 
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Mod Note
Please Lets all get back on topic and stop ridiculing each other :no:
Done, nuff finished .. understand - I will delete any futher posts of this nature :assassin:
If that all thats left for us to do in this thread is attack each other it needs to be closed IMO
Lets all move on - Please dont reply to this note. Just do it :) Thanks
 
StellaJackson said:
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If the songs are fake, Sony are highly unlikely to be involved. Even if they have since realized this, they will never admit it.
- There are ridiculous sums of money involved which seems to be the core of all problems relating to MJ.
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I agree with this - I don't think Sony was aware if it was MJ or not, they took a chance that it was based on testing. But even if they find out it is not MJ, They can't and wont admit it now. Way too much money and their reputation is at stake. IMO Nothing short of someone admitting and knowing first hand that it is not Michael is going to move this.

That being said I will also say I believe Eddie did record Michael singing. I do hear bit and pieces of MJ (but cant always tell for certain) and thats the problem.. sometimes I think I hear him, sometimes it sounds way off. So possibly too much filler too much botched production and Not enough Michael and that makes for a disaster and should have never been released IMO. This is all speculation of course on my part. Some feel none of it is Michael some feel it is all Michael. For the most part I don't hear Michael. and the unreleased songs are even worse as far as sounding like MJ. My ears say NO ..

It very well could be Michael but Ill never hear him they way they produced it - That is so SAD
I almost feel guilty for not hearing him and NO FAN should EVER have to feel that way over a Michael song.

Regardless of what one believes it is still a fact these songs have caused so much damage and division in the fan base. and now with recent media report the general public questions - not just the casico tracks but other tracks. I wish they were never released and I hope no other casico tracks are released because that is only gonna cause further outcry and division in the fan base. I hate seeing that I really do :(

If Sony is going to release them they should make an Album called "The Casico Recordings" with just those songs .. and then another album for the rest of the tracks. That way fans have a choice .. and they are not mixed with songs all MJ fans can except. but thats just wishful thinking on my part. I know Sony is also thinking how the hell are we going to release these songs knowing damn well it is going to cause another uproar. How can they not know that ?? But hey I realize they too are between a rock and hard place. Maybe they will wait a few years who knows. Things are going to get very interesting.

While I'm here because i don't post often in here, I want to address the detailed Elvis song report. I too wish Sony and the Estate would have released a more detailed report on the analysis they did on the Casico tracks and what they compared them too and how they came to the decision that it was Michael. It would have been more helpful to me to know this. Would it change every thing or everyones mind. probably not. But I could have changed many if they knew the details. I'm not attacking them for not going into detail that way. But it would have been more respectful and more believable to many fans if they did give us the details. We know nothing about that report. Except they state is was done. It too late now they are not going to address this any further to bring it it back into the public eye, Its caused them and the fan base enough problems. They don't want it to be focused on. They are moving on. I wish we would too. Myself I "can" move for the sake of peace and so I can enjoy celebrating Michael's legacy without all the drama... As long as they don't release any more knowing darn well what it will cause in the fan base. They did remove Monster from the Immortal based on fans reaction .. so maybe their is hope. So I will hope :)
 
qbee said:
I agree with this - I don't think Sony was aware if it was MJ or not, they took a chance that it was based on testing. But even if they find out it is not MJ, They can't and wont admit it now. Way too much money and their reputation is at stake. IMO Nothing short of someone admitting and knowing first hand that it is not Michael is going to move this.

That being said I will also say I believe Eddie did record Michael singing. I do hear bit and pieces of MJ (but cant always tell for certain) and thats the problem.. sometimes I think I hear him, sometimes it sounds way off. So possibly too much filler too much botched production and Not enough Michael and that makes for a disaster and should have never been released IMO. This is all speculation of course on my part. Some feel none of it is Michael some feel it is all Michael. For the most part I don't hear Michael. and the unreleased songs are even worse as far as sounding like MJ. My ears say NO ..

It very well could be Michael but Ill never hear him they way they produced it - That is so SAD
I almost feel guilty for not hearing him and NO FAN should EVER have to feel that way over a Michael song.

Regardless of what one believes it is still a fact these songs have caused so much damage and division in the fan base. and now with recent media report the general public questions - not just the casico tracks but other tracks. I wish they were never released and I hope no other casico tracks are released because that is only gonna cause further outcry and division in the fan base. I hate seeing that I really do :(

If Sony is going to release them they should make an Album called "The Casico Recordings" with just those songs .. and then another album for the rest of the tracks. That way fans have a choice .. and they are not mixed with songs all MJ fans can except. but thats just wishful thinking on my part. I know Sony is also thinking how the hell are we going to release these songs knowing damn well it is going to cause another uproar. How can they not know that ?? But hey I realize they too are between a rock and hard place. Maybe they will wait a few years who knows. Things are going to get very interesting.

While I'm here because i don't post often in here, I want to address the detailed Elvis song report. I too wish Sony and the Estate would have released a more detailed report on the analysis they did on the Casico tracks and what they compared them too and how they came to the decision that it was Michael. It would have been more helpful to me to know this. Would it change every thing or everyones mind. probably not. But I could have changed many if they knew the details. I'm not attacking them for not going into detail that way. But it would have been more respectful and more believable to many fans if they did give us the details. We know nothing about that report. Except they state is was done. It too late now they are not going to address this any further to bring it it back into the public eye, Its caused them and the fan base enough problems. They don't want it to be focused on. They are moving on. I wish we would too. Myself I "can" move for the sake of peace and so I can enjoy celebrating Michael's legacy without all the drama... As long as they don't release any more knowing darn well what it will cause in the fan base. They did remove Monster from the Immortal based on fans reaction .. so maybe their is hope. So I will hope :)
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I can agree for some parts with the release of the rest of the cascio songs making "more(?)" fans mad, but I think a song like Burn Tonight released in the Summer would definitely be a smash hit/club hit. It's got so much dance and rhythm in it and it's incredibly catchy so I would really hate the fact if they never released that one. Same goes for songs like Black Widow (of which, yes sony, I heard more than the leaked part) that really are awesome tracks if finished, in my opinion. It could be "MJ's" last rock song for all we know.
Same goes for All Right, Stay, All I Need, Water and Ready 2 Win. All are very nice songs.

The ones I could agree with NOT to release (because of what I heard I think it's too incomplete, so not the vocal issue) are Fall In Love and Soldier Boy. They just aren't finished/good enough to be put on an album.

So yeah, in short, more cascio releases could make more fans mad, but at the same time it could make other fans, like me, very happy. =)
 
^^ Yes as I said it will cause much division. You proved my point. Now Im not faulting your right to be happy, but it will also cause many to be very upset. Im not even going to debate your right to believe and be happy becuase that serves no good purpose in here. Iv'e heard those songs and unless they miraculously change the songs to sound like Michael I certainly wont be happy l becuase my ears wont be hearing Michael singing. :(

I prefer they release the songs all fans can agree upon as being Michael and all fans be happy hearing them :)
At least we can all celebrate BAD25 to together with no drama.

Well Except for the Sony boycotters, but they dont count in my book. Boycotting doesnt help Michael's Legacy in any way shape or form and certainly wont take Sony down. It just hurts MJ in the charts and in the eyes of public opinion. plus the media will use the opportunity to bash him becuase he is not charting. I've seen boycotters calling to place thumbs down on MJ music videos. :mat: Now how in the hell does that hurt Sony. It only makes MJ music look bad. If I dont like the song I wont buy but for Michael's sake I certainly wont support any calls for organised boycotts. I will adamently stand against them for doing so.
 
Yeah (@ qbee),

Still... having heard those leaked (demo's?), they all sound so interesting and I guess it's something for me to always want to hear the full thing first before being able to judge the song.

Also,

Hey there nasty.
 
The songs does not sound like Michael to many fans, even some believers says they don't sound that much like Michael. They have also ruined a lot for the fans. Why release more just to satisfy some of us? Would MJ allow songs some of his fans didn't hear his voice in be released? I don't think so.

It's common sense to think that they should stay hidden forever and not released.
 
Mod note Thread cleaned.

Personal insults/attacks on our members will not be tolerated.
 You are welcome to Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully. Critical
conversation is expected when you disagree but do not be rude and please do Not personally attack
or insult our members individually or collectively. This includes name calling or questioning members
fanhood if they don't agree with your view.

There are ways to voice your opinions with out all that. Believers and doubters both have a right to state how they feel about the songs and what they want. but both belivers and doubters do not have the right to attack and insult each other for having those views. Its not any more selfish to want the songs if you belive they are Michael than it is to not want the songs if you dont believe it is Michael. Each side depending on their view pays a price no matter. Belivers feel the songs are real and want them. Just as you would want them if you thought they were real. and I really doubt you would sacifice them becuase others didnt believe or think it was MJ. If that's your view you can certainly post it but without attacking or calling selfish those who believe otherwise. Stop the DRAMA please.
 
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