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Michael - The Great Album Debate

ADKIc3mAnX said:
Not really they are not hiding the fact that they support these songs and feel 100% confident about them.





Anyways is anyone going to Madison Square Garden this Tuesday ?
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Yup, they feel so confident, they need some nameless forensics to tell them who's on the tracks. They'd better follow Elvis's Estate's strategy.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Yup, they feel so confident, they need some nameless forensics to tell them who's on the tracks. They'd better follow Elvis's Estate's strategy.
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Why would they refuse to accept these songs when they have experts telling them it's MJ ?

Elvis estate had this problems hundreds of times with people trying to sell them fake songs with MJ it's different.
 
They took the actual Monster vocals out of the show as well as removing the "Monster" graphic from the programme. They still have to credit Cascio etc because other snippets from the songs (BN intro, 50 Cent rap) are still used in the mixes. The issue is the lead vocals, of which there are none.
 
love is magical said:
I feel the same. This thread is like my home.

I miss u guys. Will definitely catch up when things get better.
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I miss you guys too! I'll be back in a few days as I'm in Los Cabos, Mexico right now...Just wanted to say hi ....Enjoying the sun and beach :D
 
StellaJackson said:
They took the actual Monster vocals out of the show as well as removing the "Monster" graphic from the programme. They still have to credit Cascio etc because other snippets from the songs (BN intro, 50 Cent rap) are still used in the mixes. The issue is the lead vocals, of which there are none.
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The program that they give you when you go the concert still has Monster on the Thriller page.

The one that Sony provides with Immortal the album does not have it.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Why would they refuse to accept these songs when they have experts telling them it's MJ ?
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Why Elvis's Estate refuse to accept the newly discovered song when they have experts telling them it's Elvis? I know the name of the Expert for Elvis's authetification. The owner of the song has witnesses and contracts signed.

Do you know the name of the experts for MJ's authentification? Do you have witnesses other than Eddie? Do you have any written trace or some kind of contract between MJ and Eddie? In the era of digital technology and among so many rare footages of MJ practicing, rehearsing, singing, recording etc. in the studio, you have nothing except those fabricated songs.


ADKIc3mAnX said:
Elvis estate had this problems hundreds of times with people trying to sell them fake songs with MJ it's different.
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It's been more than 30 years that Elvis died, so in those +30 years they probably faced that kind of problem.

Two days after MJ died, MJ's Estate had this problem 12 times, but they blindly accepted it as if it wasn't a problem. Sorry, but when you don't have a single tangible trace of proof you don't take things at face value because some nameless experts say so (without having read their report and even knowing what was analysed).
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Two days after MJ died, MJ's Estate had this problem 12 times, but they blindly accepted it as if it wasn't a problem. Sorry, but when you don't have a single tangible trace of proof you don't take things at face value because some nameless experts say so (without having read their report and even knowing what was analysed).
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Actually I don't think they did. That registration made on June 27th does not contain those 12 tracks because they simply did not exist at that time imo. There is a lot of info contained in the numerous Cascio/Porte registrations which are worth looking at, in chronological order, if you have the time and patience. Obviously they couldn't have recorded 12 fakes in 48 hours and it makes no sense for them to have done it before Michael died. So what is "MJ Songbook 2009"? Well follow the paper trail on the copyright registrations and at the BMI and you can soon piece together what happened. :)
 
StellaJackson said:
Actually I don't think they did. That registration made on June 27th does not contain those 12 tracks because they simply did not exist at that time imo. There is a lot of info contained in the numerous Cascio/Porte registrations which are worth looking at, in chronological order, if you have the time and patience. Obviously they couldn't have recorded 12 fakes in 48 hours and it makes no sense for them to have done it before Michael died. So what is "MJ Songbook 2009"? Well follow the paper trail on the copyright registrations and at the BMI and you can soon piece together what happened. :)
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Unless they recorded the demos before that with intention to present them to MJ.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Unless they recorded the demos before that with intention to present them to MJ.
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True but why not just use Porte to record them? It's not like Michael couldn't imagine what he would sound like on the tracks. Also, if they had Malachi record demos then they still would have had to rerecord them after the fact as these 12 tracks are not demos imo. Also it wouldn't take almost a year for any of the individual titles to emerge, and I still believe Water was deliberately created to appear as if MJ was singing it in TII.

But when you get time, look at all the copyright registrations from Porte and Cascio, starting in 2005. Also look at the dates that both they and JM were making copyright registrations.
 
Those believers who have heard the song Stay (Carry On), explain to me 1:09. I am not even saying what to look for, you'll figure it out. If you don't hear it the first time, repeat that second over and over again between 1:09 and 1:10. Give me the explanation and I'll become a believer.
 
StellaJackson said:
True but why not just use Porte to record them? It's not like Michael couldn't imagine what he would sound like on the tracks. Also, if they had Malachi record demos then they still would have had to rerecord them after the fact as these 12 tracks are not demos imo. Also it wouldn't take almost a year for any of the individual titles to emerge, and I still believe Water was deliberately created to appear as if MJ was singing it in TII.

But when you get time, look at all the copyright registrations from Porte and Cascio, starting in 2005. Also look at the dates that both they and JM were making copyright registrations.
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Well, could you provide me the links if you had already checked that out?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Well, could you provide me the links if you had already checked that out?
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That's the problem. The US Copyright Office doesn't allow direct links to individual registrations. What you need to do is go to this link http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First

From there click on "keyword" and type "Eddie Cascio." Also try "James Porte" and "Jason Malachi" It can be confusing at first and takes ages to go through it all but I'll let you have fun with it. Someone needs to take screen prints of all the relevant registrations and put everything in order at some point. There are about 11 registrations of particular interest, and not all to do with MJ either.
 
StellaJackson said:
That's the problem. The US Copyright Office doesn't allow direct links to individual registrations. What you need to do is go to this link http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First

From there click on "keyword" and type "Eddie Cascio." Also try "James Porte" and "Jason Malachi" It can be confusing at first and takes ages to go through it all but I'll let you have fun with it. Someone needs to take screen prints of all the relevant registrations and put everything in order at some point. There are about 11 registrations of particular interest, and not all to do with MJ either.
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Thanks for the link Stella.

Now I just took a look at it, but didn't have time to look at everything.

Have you checked if Michael Jackson himself registered anything post 2006 and how long MJ would usually need between recording a song and registering it?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Why Elvis's Estate refuse to accept the newly discovered song when they have experts telling them it's Elvis? I know the name of the Expert for Elvis's authetification. The owner of the song has witnesses and contracts signed.

Do you know the name of the experts for MJ's authentification? Do you have witnesses other than Eddie? Do you have any written trace or some kind of contract between MJ and Eddie? In the era of digital technology and among so many rare footages of MJ practicing, rehearsing, singing, recording etc. in the studio, you have nothing except those fabricated songs.




It's been more than 30 years that Elvis died, so in those +30 years they probably faced that kind of problem.

Two days after MJ died, MJ's Estate had this problem 12 times, but they blindly accepted it as if it wasn't a problem. Sorry, but when you don't have a single tangible trace of proof you don't take things at face value because some nameless experts say so (without having read their report and even knowing what was analysed).
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Sony and the Estate had the songs tested, now because they did not release their information to fans that hate these tracks and co-writer to protect their identities that makes the songs fake?





Wouldn't this one be easier to find ?

http://repertoire.bmi.com/writer.as...67238&keyname=CASCIO EDDIE&querytype=WriterID





Also not all of Michael Jackson's unreleased songs are registered so if a song is registered tomorrow and it's a known song like Escape (For example) shouldn't we question that one too?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Those believers who have heard the song Stay (Carry On), explain to me 1:09. I am not even saying what to look for, you'll figure it out. If you don't hear it the first time, repeat that second over and over again between 1:09 and 1:10. Give me the explanation and I'll become a believer.
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If it is what I think it is then there is no explanation that can be given other than that that is not the pronounciation of Michael Jackson. It is simply not Michael Jackson singing that word. There is no other logical explanation.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Thanks for the link Stella.

Now I just took a look at it, but didn't have time to look at everything.

Have you checked if Michael Jackson himself registered anything post 2006 and how long MJ needed between recording a song and registering it?
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As far as I am aware, no. But don't quote me on that.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Sony and the Estate had the songs tested, now because they did not release their information to fans that hate these tracks and co-writer to protect their identities that makes the songs fake?





Wouldn't this one be easier to find ?

http://repertoire.bmi.com/writer.asp?page=1&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&fromrow=1&torow=25&affiliation=BMI&cae=618309449&keyID=550167238&keyname=CASCIO%20EDDIE&querytype=WriterID
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Elvis's audio forensic did exactly the same thing Adki. YOu seem to ignore it completely.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I know I seen the video a few days back, maybe then the estate just does not want to buy the song.
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But do you realize why they refuse to buy it? It sounds like Elvis, but it doesn't sound Elvis.

Apparently the song itself is evaluated to not more than around 3000$ (threshold price). So the money excuse isn't really plausible, knowing that the forensic ask the double for analysis in general (including the testimony in court). Why would a forensic lie for 3000$? He earns that much in a matter of several hours of work.
 
love is magical said:
I feel the same. This thread is like my home.

I miss u guys. Will definitely catch up when things get better.
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Can't do without you here! Things get better? Hope all is well?

Pentum said:
Why does this picture look like something else
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Because Bumper posted it, that's why..:yes:

Arklove said:
I miss you guys too! I'll be back in a few days as I'm in Los Cabos, Mexico right now...Just wanted to say hi ....Enjoying the sun and beach :D
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Ohhh....Enjoy Arklove! Happy for you.

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Those believers who have heard the song Stay (Carry On), explain to me 1:09. I am not even saying what to look for, you'll figure it out. If you don't hear it the first time, repeat that second over and over again between 1:09 and 1:10. Give me the explanation and I'll become a believer.
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Let me guess...'wai-in'???? Nail in the coffin for me.
 
@azsummergirl: Saw your tweet to Joe Vogel. I thought the same thing, lolol! Thought maybe we discovered Nasty's true identity..:D
 
I am really curious about this one:

Does anyone have any idea what is the opinion of E-Casanova, Navi, and other Michael Jackson's impersonators on the Cascio songs?

p.s. No news from E-Casanova since 2009????
p.p.s. Actually he stated that he had an illness in 2006 or 2007 and that he was about to retire. Since then no single news, no facebook, no twitter. Is he still alive???
p.p.p.s. found some 2011 videos of E-Casanova, but did he record them in 2011 or before?

ok found a video of E-Casanova singing Hold My Hand

[youtube]dEj6n5E6P-g&feature=related[/youtube]

and to clear the doubts up, E-Casanova is not the one who died instead of MJ:

[youtube]8E4HotvmvYk&feature=related[/youtube]

p.p.p.p.s. And here's Navi's review of the album Michael:

“MICHAEL” Review, by Navi

<small style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 0.7em; line-height: 1.5em; color: rgb(119, 119, 119); text-transform: uppercase; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">9TH DECEMBER 2010</small>
I&#8217;m sitting here trying to find the words to review the latest twist in the world of Michael Jackson. Earlier today I was sat in the offices at Sony, and had the pleasure of hearing the tracks that makes the album &#8216;Michael&#8217;&#8230;Even though i had to rush out in order to catch my show which also was in London tonight, I wanted to make sure I did this before my flight in the early hour of today.
Where do I start with this&#8230;.. this review is my opinion, based on solely how I felt hearing this album for the first time. I know many tried to hear snippets on the internet, I didn&#8217;t. For me, I didn&#8217;t want my appetite for the album diluted and it paid off. I sat there, firstly as a huge MJ fan, and secondly as someone who travels the UK and the world impersonating the greatest entertainer of ALL time.
If my opinion does upset/offend anyone, I&#8217;m sorry but I won&#8217;t change it. It&#8217;s my opinion &#61514;
I rated each song according to how I would value it based on the 1-5* rating (5* being I&#8217;m loving this!)

MICHAELHOLD MY HAND (4)

This track has had airplay and the fans/general public already know of this. My opinion has always been the same &#8211; I loved this song and the production from day one. It needed to be completed and as much as we all have what we consider the right track for first release, I&#8217;m personally glad it was this one. It has a great message, vibe and vocals that suits the season we are approaching.

HOLLYWOOD TONIGHT (5)

This had a strong production that rang the Invincible era, and considering it was written at that time, I&#8217;m surprised it didn&#8217;t make that album. Classic Teddy Riley had me swinging with a smile across my face. Considering I did 300 plus shows last yr alone, and some 75 in nightclubs across the country, this track would command the attention of everyone in the club scene. At to think the average age group is 18-21, it&#8217;s nice to know this album can accommodate all existing fans and the new ones. I absolutely love this song. &#8216;She&#8217;s going Hollywood, she&#8217;s going Hollywood tonight&#8230;.

&#8217;KEEP YOUR HEAD UP (5*)

This is a slow ballad, that had a simple beautiful musical intro. The vocals reminded me of &#8216;Don&#8217;t Walk Away&#8217;. The way of describing this song was a cross roads between &#8216;Man In the Mirror&#8217; and &#8216;You Are Not Alone&#8217;. Both those songs rank in my top 10 of all MJ songs, so this is one of those. I could replay this song several times without getting bored. It has a beautiful choir ending, and on a big stereo is pure magic. To me I feel a bit of &#8216;R.Kelly&#8217; could so easily have influenced the great orchestral build-ups.
I seriously had to fight back the tears when listening to this song, was like a message from the man himself.

(I LIKE) THE WAY YOU LOVE ME (3)

This was originally on the Ultimate Collection, and it&#8217;s been finished now. I know that many fans already like this song in its demo stages, but it does already sound better. The intro of Michael on a crackly phone-line is quite a nice touch (one for the fans). It s personally not one of my favourites, but it&#8217;s a fan track. It is nice enough to leave playing but not a stand out song for me.MONSTER (5)
This song reminded me of a track that should have been on the &#8216;Blood on the Dancefloor&#8217; album. Heavy, HEAVY vibe, with some serious sound effects. A fantastic chorus, and I can see this being a club hit. Wished this was released for a Halloween period next yr. It&#8217;s a 2010 thriller!! 50 cent to me brings a lot to the table with this track, I was surprised at the choice of rapper when I heard it was him, but it works so well.BEST OF JOY (3)
A nice enough track, could leave it playing, but nothing that great for me to indulge in. It does hold beautiful vocals.

BREAKING NEWS (2)

A definite fan song, I like it a lot as a fan song, but as a commercial track I don&#8217;t feel it would have worked. We can all make our mind up about this track as it&#8217;s been out now. Also if I gave this a (2) and Hold my Hand (4)&#8230;. you&#8217;ll get an idea about how I see this album.

(I CANT MAKE IT)ANOTHER DAY (3)

This is the Lenny Kravitz track, to be honest it&#8217;s not my type of music, but a brilliant song in itself. Very rock feel, and would love to hear this track several times before I could honestly say.BEHIND THE MASK (5*)
Classic Michael. Vocally this takes me back to late 70s to mid 80s. His vocals are silky smooth, the range he sings in will have many playing this over and over. I cannot fault this track, and even though it will remind many of Eric Clapton , apparently the lyrics were written by Michael originally. Michael has taken a classic song, and what would normally make the radio stations of magic and radio2&#8230;. I can imagine this being played on Kiss & Radio1. (LOVE IT!!!)

MUCH TOO SOON (3)

Definitely a nice song, again an album track. For me it was like &#8216;The Lost Children&#8217;, I really loved the song and would play it often, but never as one of my must hear tracks. It&#8217;s still quality and was fitting to end this album. No heavy music, his vocals and his character shines through.

Conclusion

On reflection of hearing this album for the first, and only time so far, I found myself leaving Sony beaming. Excited to feel the King was still here in music past present and to come. His fans I&#8217;m sure will love this when they finally get to put speculation and controversy aside, and make their own minds up.I feel this album will also bring a new audience to the world of Jackson. My favourite album of all time has always been &#8216;Bad&#8217;. By that , so many tracks were true hits, classic songs and not album fillers. I find myself wanting to put this in my top 2 albums of all time, maybe to say 2 isn&#8217;t fair to &#8216;Off the Wall&#8217; or &#8216;Thriller&#8217;, but I can easily say that this album is my favourite since &#8216;Bad&#8217;.I don&#8217;t want to get into the politics or dirt throwing that is overshadowing what really matters here &#8211; MICHAEL JACKSON. I do want to take this opportunity to actually thank both Sony & MJJ s estate for giving Michael the credit he s due by such a quality release. Finally an album of all new tracks, not another greatest hits, or remixes.Obviously I am an impersonator, so when I heard the rumours that this album was not solely that of Michael s, I was surprised. I have being performing in the MJ tribute scene for the best part of 23yrs, so obviously anyone looking/dancing/sounding like MJ I WOULD know of. Rest assure that this album is PURELY Michael, his vocals is one thing that cannot be replicated.We are all Michael fans, and if you read this, it&#8217;s because you, like me, love Michael. Let&#8217;s gives him what he deserves and unite to fly his flag once again. We don&#8217;t need to be divided or diluted, because the only person that pays the price is Michael.​
 
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Pentum said:
E'casanova in 2010:

[youtube]hyiK8MtBcWA[/youtube]
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I just wonder what does he think about the Cascio songs. As far as Navi is concerned, it is MJ, but since that 2010 review of his, no additional news. Many have changed their minds between 2010 and the leaks of the unreleased Cascio songs.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I just wonder what does he think about the Cascio songs. As far as Navi is concerned, it is MJ, but since that 2010 review of his, no additional news. Many have changed their minds between 2010 and the leaks of the unreleased Cascio songs.
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Seems you think he changed his minds without him actually saying it.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Seems you think he changed his minds without him actually saying it.
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Not at all. I underlined purposedly his opinion, so people can see it.

It just made me think of some fans on this board who were writing a full review of the album Michael right after it came out. When they heard the leaks of the unreleased songs, they changed their minds. That's all.

By the way, I didn't imply that Navi changed his mind. If he did, he'd probably remove his review. I am just curious to see if he heard the remaining Cascio songs, that's all.
 
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