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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Well if the video becomes public we'll know but

- TMZ might be mixing up the songs - like they did with the year 2008 versus 2010. It might be Hollywood tonight
- She might have changed her opinion - apparently the alleged video is before the album release, after the album release and seeing how 3T wrote good things about HMH, she can change her mind and start believe that it's real.

Overall this shows me that Paris is sold on the idea that the songs are fakes, without an actual knowledge of anything.
 
ivy said:
Well if the video becomes public we'll know but

- TMZ might be mixing up the songs - like they did with the year 2008 versus 2010. It might be Hollywood tonight
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That's also quite sad if she believes HT tonight is fake too (well, we know she thinks) considering her cousin is on the track ...
 
Let's see, "Hold My Hand" is ANOTHER fake song.

So does that mean Akon is also a part of the Michael album conspiracy? LOL!
 
It is clear to me the family is trying to stick it to the estate by using Paris. Obviously, they have drilled their lies into her gullible head.

I hope fans stay away from this mess. And not go on attacking Paris. She is a victim...just like Michael. Just like the estate.

I'd put my money on Latoya.

ETA:

Also, It might be best for the estate to not release anymore albums until the older two are grown and are able to get involved . Forget Bad re-release.

Album sales aren't what they used to be...the estate will make more money from the Cirque Show and the video games then from any album release. Put these releases on hold until the kids are 18 and able to make up their own mind. For now they are being used against their father, and their own financial future.
 
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ivy said:
In short it will just show that Paris agrees with the opinion of the songs being fake, however it's not based on facts or first hand knowledge as Hollywood Tonight and Hold my Hand mentions show this.
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Whose opinion she agrees with, who is pushing her?

"She said it's not Michael, she said it's for money"
I find it odd that 10 year old girl would say it's for money! I don't think that at that age they come up with such a statement, I think someone has told her that and she is just repeating it.

I absolutely agree that she is not to be blamed of this, and she should have kept out of this altogether.
 
They should not going to make decisions on what to do based on what the kids think or what they are being told. It is sad that this young lady is talking bad about something that benefits her
 
Memefan said:
It is clear to me the family is trying to stick it to the estate by using Paris. Obviously, they have drilled their lies into her gullible head.

I hope fans stay away from this mess. And not go on attacking Paris. She is a victim...just like Michael. Just like the estate.

I'd put my money on Latoya.
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That's not true, the family (Jackie, La Toya, Katherine, 3T) said that the Cascio tracks are fake. They never said anything about Hold My Hand and Hollywood Tonight. In my opinion that is what Paris thinks, and that proves that she doesn't know her father's work. She was just a kid when most of these songs were recorded. Estate is not the victim, John Branca is part of this mess. I think that fans should react (of course not by attacking Paris), and demand an official explanation by the Jacksons, including Paris.
 
Vici said:
However, I wanna know one thing. If Paris thinks HOLD MY HAND is fake too, then why did she use that song to one of her youtube videos? Paris made a video and posted on her twitter (before she got verified and when her username were pariisjaxn).

"@pariisjaxn here! I made this video and i'm borrowing my friend's account in order to post it.. This is NOT my account. I hope you guys like it and decide to stand up for what you believe in. Just speak out! Someone will hear you. Let's make a difference and heal the world! ?"

This is the video...

[youtube]_Nahi0ZI8ag[/youtube]
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Hmm, interesting! Thanks for posting. I guess ivy could be right that TMZ is just messing up track names.

Memefan said:
It is clear to me the family is trying to stick it to the estate by using Paris. Obviously, they have drilled their lies into her gullible head.
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How? The members from the family that have spoken about fake tracks have, as far as I know, always only mentioned the Cascio tracks and clearly stated that the other 7 songs are real. Tarryll is featured on Hollywood Tonight himself, why would he start telling Paris it was a fake track?

With regards to HMH: Either Taj or Tarryll (think it was Taj) told an anecdote about hearing the song and how enthusiastic MJ was about it. Thus, he clearly seemed to defend it.

Edit: @OnirMJ. Yes! You got there first (and said it better than I did).

Also, It might be best for the estate to not release anymore albums until the older two are grown and are able to get involved . Forget Bad re-release.
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Why? As long as they do not release questionable material (Cascio tracks), no one will argue about authenticity. This whole authenticity debate only came up because of the Cascio tracks.
 
Memefan said:
It is clear to me the family is trying to stick it to the estate by using Paris. Obviously, they have drilled their lies into her gullible head.

I hope fans stay away from this mess. And not go on attacking Paris. She is a victim...just like Michael. Just like the estate.

I'd put my money on Latoya.

ETA:

Also, It might be best for the estate to not release anymore albums until the older two are grown and are able to get involved . Forget Bad re-release.

Album sales aren't what they used to be...the estate will make more money from the Cirque Show and the video games then from any album release. Put these releases on hold until the kids are 18 and able to make up their own mind. For now they are being used against their father, and their own financial future.
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That is not possible, because they signed a contract with Sony for 10 projects until 2017. Also I don't think that they will have such power when they turn 18, I think that the executors will always be executors.
 
OnirMJ said:
That's not true, the family (Jackie, La Toya, Katherine, 3T) said that the Cascio tracks are fake. They never said anything about Hold My Hand and Hollywood Tonight. In my opinion that is what Paris thinks, and that proves that she doesn't know her father's work. She was just a kid when most of these songs were recorded. Estate is not the victim, John Branca is part of this mess. I think that fans should react (of course not by attacking Paris), and demand an official explanation by the Jacksons, including Paris.
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Indeed. Which is quite upsetting to me, considering she should know her dad like the back of her hand. This is old news, and I don't know why TMZ just re-posted an article from almost 2 years ago and just reworded it, it was mentioned before that she didn't believe any of the tracks contained her fathers voice, that's true for 3 of the songs, but every other song is 100% Michael. Paris is of that age now, where she's really wise to everything surrounding her, she should know her fathers voice.


Anyway, this brings me back to all the reasoning that consisted of "his own kids know the songs aren't him, so it's not him" and that whole argument. All this proves is that certain people, shouldn't have relied on the opinion of the family so much. Either someone is in their ear, which I believe is the case, or they're really not all that familiar with their fathers voice. And I'd like to think that's not what it is.


Pentum said:
You don't know that for sure, so don't be so certain.
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This was brought up when they first came out, they're pre-mixes, not the raw demo's.
 
Like ivy said, the quintessence of all this is:

The kids simply repeat what they happen to pick up - like some family members telling unconfirmed stories about authenticity. They don't know that much about Michael's recordings, they were too young. It's been obvious since 2010 that the children know less than us fans. You can forget about them, their words have no value.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
This was brought up when they first came out, they're pre-mixes, not the raw demo's.
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What? No, no one in this forum knows if these are pre-mixes or the raw demos for sure. Unless you can prove it.

Birchey claimed they were raw demos. Korgnex claims they are pre-mixes. No one could prove it however. Just talk.
 
Korgnex said:
Like ivy said, the quintessence of all this is:

The kids simply repeat what they happen to pick up - like some family members telling unconfirmed stories about authenticity. They don't know that much about Michael's recordings, they were too young. It's been obvious since 2010 that the children know less than us fans. You can forget about them, their words have no value.
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Yes, that is true, but the media and the public will believe anything that children are saying, and no one listens us - fans. Our opinion is irrelevant to the media.

Also TMZ changed year from 2008 to 2010!

http://www.tmz.com/2012/02/29/michael-jackson-paris-album-fake-voice-jason-malachi/#.T05Oh_Xsb0s
 
Korgnex said:
Like ivy said, the quintessence of all this is:

The kids simply repeat what they happen to pick up - like some family members telling unconfirmed stories about authenticity. They don't know that much about Michael's recordings, they were too young. It's been obvious since 2010 that the children know less than us fans. You can forget about them, their words have no value.
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Unless they say "The Cascios are in my heart" ;D
 
OnirMJ said:
That is not possible, because they signed a contract with Sony for 10 projects until 2017. Also I don't think that they will have such power when they turn 18, I think that the executors will always be executors.
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If you think the Jacksons have nothing to do with this old ass story making it to TMZ, you are dead wrong.

This has Jacksons, especially Latoya, written all over it.
 
OnirMJ said:
That is not possible, because they signed a contract with Sony for 10 projects until 2017. Also I don't think that they will have such power when they turn 18, I think that the executors will always be executors.
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Projects doesn't mean new albums. They are involved with the video game. same for Cirque.

At 18, I don't mean they will have authority over the estate. That's not what MJ wanted, but I think the executors will be able to freely communicate with the children without filters and get their point of view on projects.

Right now these kids are being fed lies by their family...and are unable to understand how they are hurting their father's legacy.
 
Pentum said:
What? No, no one in this forum knows if these are pre-mixes or the raw demos for sure. Unless you can prove it.

Birchey claimed they were raw demos. Korgnex claims they are pre-mixes. No one could prove it however. Just talk.
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Considering the fact that they still contain copy and paste vocals and screams, I'd say they're pre-mixes. As it's debatable that Eddie Cascio even had access to master recordings to include them himself.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
Indeed. Which is quite upsetting to me, considering she should know her dad like the back of her hand.
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I'm sure she does, but she is his daughter, not a fan. At that age I didn't really know what my parents do at work, etc. But I knew them on a different level and better than "outsiders" on that level.
 
A lot of doubters relied on stories by TMZ and RF saying that MJs kids saying it is not him. However similar stories also said the kids was manipulated. After the HT event on formspring and seing how adamant Paris was I was left with two posibilities.
1 she was manipulated to believe the songs to be fake and bad people doing it for money
2 she had no knowledge about it and was wrong which was normal considering she was 9 when songs recorded and 12 when this debate was going on. In other words she was a kid.

HT showed you cant rely on Paris for voice authentication. I wish she was left out of this mess.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
Considering the fact that they still contain copy and paste vocals and screams, I'd say they're pre-mixes. As it's debatable that Eddie Cascio even had access to master recordings to include them himself.
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From what we've heard from the "pre-mixes" they have copy pasted ad libs many people can get online. Also, who knows what Eddie Cascio really had?
 
Memefan said:
Projects doesn't mean new albums. They are involved with the video game. same for Cirque.

At 18, I don't mean they will have authority over the estate. That's not what MJ wanted, but I think the executors will be able to freely communicate with the children without filters and get their point of view on projects.

Right now these kids are being fed lies by their family...and are unable to understand how they are hurting their father's legacy.
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Yes, projects does mean albums. Some with already released and some with unreleased material. DVD's are also included. Video game has nothing to do with Sony, video game is part of the deal with Ubisoft.

When they turn 18 they will give their opinion to the Estate, but the Estate and Sony will have final decision and if they want to release more fake tracks they'll do it no matter what Paris thinks.

I do not agree with you about the Jacksons. Why would they do that? I hate La Toya so don't get me wrong. But Jackie, 3T and Randy had been very clear and said what they think about Cascio tracks. So why would they change their mind and start saying lies about Hollywood and Hold My Hand?
 
OnirMJ said:
Yes, projects does mean albums. Some with already released and some with unreleased material. DVD's are also included. Video game has nothing to do with Sony, video game is part of the deal with Ubisoft.

When they turn 18 they will give their opinion to the Estate, but the Estate and Sony will have final decision and if they want to release more fake tracks they'll do it no matter what Paris thinks.

I do not agree with you about the Jacksons. Why would they do that? I hate La Toya so don't get me wrong. But Jackie, 3T and Randy had been very clear and said what they think about Cascio tracks. So why would they change their mind and start saying lies about Hollywood and Hold My Hand?
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I don't think Jackie is behind this.

But the others....I am pretty damn sure they are involved. But again my money is on Latoya.

And who the hell said they think HT is fake? isnt' it clear from TMZ' report that Paris is the one saying the whole album is fake? My point is someone in that family leaked the story to TMZ to screw the estate over. They are bitter and they clearly won't give up until they destroy MJ's legacy and his kids' financial future
 
Pentum said:
From what we've heard from the "pre-mixes" they have copy pasted ad libs many people can get online. Also, who knows what Eddie Cascio really had?
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True, which is why I said it's debatable. I just don't believe Eddie had access to master recordings when Michael was known to keep those and be somewhat secretive about it. Certain breaths, and vocal ticks, I don't think you can just find on YT, clean like that. Either way, you're right, I should've said we don't know if they're the raw demo's or not because we don't.
 
The root cause of this entire mess is down to the those who made the Cascio tracks and those whose incompetence led to three of them being included on the Michael album. This is simply the fallout from that. It's sad to see seven genuine MJ songs that Michael worked hard on being thrown into the whole mess though. The questionable songs, and those that in my opinion are clearly sung by Jason Cupeta are Keep Your Heade Up, Breaking News and Monster from the Michael album. The remaining fake tracks submitted to Sony by Eddie Cascio are Soldier Boy, Water, Stay, All I Need, Fall in Love, Burn 2Nite, Ready 2 Win, Black Widow and Alright.
 
You can't blame everything on the Cascio's, if anything, someone in the Jackson family should've made Paris aware that at least 7 songs on the album are genuinely her father.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
The TMZ is wrong:

1. Michael was still alive in 2008. The michael Album came out late 2010.
2. We know, Hold my Hand is Michael.
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I to noticed the date of 2008 ....either TMZ has messed up on the date or the article facts are fake...Paris was 10 years old in 2008...noway Michael would of let her video chat with friends...and i am sure that her speaking about songs was the last thing on her agenda....i think TMZ failed this time.
 
Memefan said:
The root of this mess is Jackson's greed. They never questioned the songs, until Taryll's own tracks were removed from the album. THAT IS THE ROOT OF THE SCANDAL.

People need to stop being gullible and understand these two knuckleheads were glad to to work on the Cascio tracks, they weren't perfect MJ tracks, but they were good enough for tTaryll to work on them with Riley.
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I really couldn't care less about Taryll, Branca, Sony, Teddy Riley and The Jackson family. Before the album came out I was so angry at the Jacksons and I was defending Cascios and their songs. But when the album came out and when I heard first word of Breaking News I said that something is wrong. I trust only to my ears, I don't care who said what.

Paris Jackson clearly said on her twitter that Hollywood Tonight is not Michael and now this, that the whole album is not Michael, although we don't know if that's what she really said. In the future every album by Michael Jackson will be labeled as fake, even the songs we knew before Michael died like Hold My Hand..
 
Who cares what the Jacksons, the kids, the Cascios or anyone else say about these songs? It's useless to even debate it...Use your own ears and your own judgment to form an opinion...

I had never put any weight on anything any of them said in the beginning, or now...

This obsession and hate fest with the Jacksons is just getting tiresome to read...
 
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