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Michael - The Great Album Debate

BREAKING NEWS (lol) : I just spoke with Frank Cascio about recording BOTDF, and when I said it was my fave song with BN, he suddenly stopped responding. Strange,very strange.
 
dam2040 said:
BREAKING NEWS (lol) : I just spoke with Frank Cascio about recording BOTDF, and when I said it was my fave song with BN, he suddenly stopped responding. Strange,very strange.
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[YouTube]a1Y73sPHKxw[/YouTube]
 
elapentela said:
You don't have to buy it. I will buy it and over 2 mill. people will buy it. The greatest artists not always were perfect. Of course he would not release something what was done as "jamming" in the basement of the pretty modest house. If he would be alive. But he is dead now and people like me ( who are researching "the greatests") have the right to buy what they want.
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But you got to be a 100% sure it is Michael's work first and there is no proof of that yet.
 
Another point made is "it's not good to MJ's legacy since it never got his seal of approval". Unfortunately it is natural for fans to accept whatever is released, be that This Is It or Michael. We're all in some way hypocrites.

Most of us at 2000 Watts hope for the day a Bad Tour 88 concert were to be released; I do too. However, MJ NEVER wanted these concerts released, just snippets shown as promos to give fans a taste of the true concert experience. He wrote that he wanted fans to see him live than to enjoy a video. Unfortunately I was right... BWT 88 will only be released after he left us.

Though one contradictory thing is MJ's other tour videos. He released 6 or so full HIStory Tour concerts televised around the world. Ironically the one available in best quality and most widely aired is HIStory Munich, which tbh is the worst of them all, but it was filmed with more camera angles for a DVD release and therefore he released it, but was dissatisfied with it to be released on DVD.

I don't see a lot of fans complaining about The Way You Love Me and its own use of Melodyne, or Hollywood Tonight looping vocals again at the end. They say MJ wanted to finish The Way You Love Me, but all they added was the phone call and melodyned vocals. Even the same lyrics mess-up of the second chorus is still there "I like the way how you're loving me" but the backgrounds sing "it doesn't matter how you are holding me" like the first chorus!
 
Hollywood is missing a extra verse, a bridge and some adlIbs. Look at my hollywood tonight comPlete lyrics topic. They should haver never autotuned the way you love me but the phone message is nice. They dont have many songs or takes to work with. They even left out "shes only 15, oh no, and haw baby" on hollywood...i dont see why. Birchys mix has 2 of the three missing things on hollywood
 
elapentela said:
Yes I want more Cascio's releases in the future and I will fight for this. I want every word recorded by Michael Jackson in the Cascio's house. Yes, I treat MJ the same like da Vinci, Chopin, Mozzart or Bethoven and I want to see everything what they ever did. Got it?
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:D You didn't get it.
With my question I didn't pretend to begin some sort movement against the Cascio tracks.
I was just wondering if they will release those tracks or not, based on what we know.

Thanks Ivy for your opinion.
 
Arklove said:
When did I indicate that you didn't have the right to buy what you want??? Yes, he's dead, but MILLIONS of fans actually have some respect for treatment of the man's art...Whether he's alive or not is actually irrelevant....His art deserves to live on, but done with dignity...not for the sake of MONEY...not to be pissed on by covering that voice with crazy amounts of processing (assuming it's him) to make it releasable...Releasing music where a mass amount of his fanbase can't hear that it's actually him is NOT respecting his art...It's raping it...
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Wow... Another great post. Girl, you are brilliant today. :huggy:

I want to echo your post. Michael once said he strived to escape death and achieve immortality by binding his soul to his arts. An artist time on earth is limited. Yet, the arts he created lives till eternity. Michael didn't talk the talks. He made many sacrifices for his crafts. The masterpieces we all enjoy now are paid by the man's excruciating pains and sufferings. No one will ever understand what he had to go through to accomplish immortality. Michael lives through his arts.

An artist does not compromise. I'm reading Steve Jobs' biography now. Jobs fancied himself an artist. He saw himself an artist. Based on Issac Walterson's research, I see a lot of Michael in Steve Jobs. I see a lot of Steve Jobs in Michael. They were both masters in their domains. They both were daring and fearless. They both are very determined. They both didn't compromise. They both aimed for perfection. They both left a mark in history. They both left a lasting legacy.

I accept the fact that Michael is no longer physically here. But, his spirit is very much alive. I know it sounds cliche. Michael changed my way of thinking. Nowadays, I have a higher degree of appreciation for arts and good designs. I can visualize the blood and sweat of the artist and designer.

I see posthumous release very differently now. It's hard for me to listen to works that deviate so far from what Michael stood for. I don't look for "new" album anymore. I'm perfectly content with Michael's legacy catalogue. Actually, I'm so happy that I'm still delighted by songs that I've heard thousands times. Just tonight, on my way home, I was listening to BOTDF, I was amazed by how well the instruments sound throughout the song. Great music never sounds old.
 
love is magical said:
Just tonight, on my way home, I was listening to BOTDF, I was amazed by how well the instruments sound throughout the song. Great music never sounds old.
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Just today I realized how Queen and Freddie Mercury tingled You Rock My World sounds and I know how much he loved Queen.
 
Frankyboy5 said:
I don't see a lot of fans complaining about The Way You Love Me and its own use of Melodyne, or Hollywood Tonight looping vocals again at the end. They say MJ wanted to finish The Way You Love Me, but all they added was the phone call and melodyned vocals.
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Yes, but they didn't compromise his voice in those songs by OVER processing anything...Looping vocals? So what? As long as they loop MJ's vocals...lol...You don't see anyone questioning the validity of those songs...I'm not gonna be all anal about that...lol..There's some give and take in all this...I don't believe they should have used any processing on anything, but at least those songs sound 100% MJ...

I know there's a certain degree of tweaking that will be done on posthumous release...It's just the way in which they do some of it...Building something from scratch to something that's beyond recognizable and then slapping MJ's name on it for a profit isn't my idea of a respectable approach to Michael's music...
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
Hollywood is missing a extra verse, a bridge and some adlIbs. Look at my hollywood tonight comPlete lyrics topic. They should haver never autotuned the way you love me but the phone message is nice. They dont have many songs or takes to work with. They even left out "shes only 15, oh no, and haw baby" on hollywood...i dont see why. Birchys mix has 2 of the three missing things on hollywood
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I very much prefer bircheys mix to the Cd or video version of Hollywood. I actually replaced Hollywood tonight with bircheys version on my copy of 'Michael'. I think bircheys version sounds more honest and closer to what I would imagine MJ wanted it to sound like. (lol jermaine jackson soul train just came on my Tv as I type this :p
 
Arklove said:
Yes, but they didn't compromise his voice in those songs by OVER processing anything...Looping vocals? So what? As long as they loop MJ's vocals...lol...You don't see anyone questioning the validity of those songs...I'm not gonna be all anal about that...lol..There's some give and take in all this...I don't believe they should have used any processing on anything, but at least those songs sound 100% MJ...

I know there's a certain degree of tweaking that will be done on posthumous release...It's just the way in which they do some of it...Building something from scratch to something that's beyond recognizable and then slapping MJ's name on it for a profit isn't my idea of a respectable approach to Michael's music...
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the thing I think is ironic is how we complain about the looping of MJ's vocals in Cascio tracks but we don't mind the looping of "real" tracks. I mean the copy-pasted parts. They've been processed ever so slightly from each other that they sound different, like the "hoo" in YRMW sounds slightly different at different points of Breaking News.

I could loop Black Widow into a "full" version and add ad-libs from Breaking News and Monster :p

Also, I don't know if MJ does HOLD his notes in Speechless and YANA. Theres a skip between the two parts "you are always in my heaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaart". On Speechless it almost sounds like it has been copy-pasted, though I don't really believe that, just thinking :S.

I wouldn't be surprised if fans boycott Bad Tour Wembley because "MJ never intended for fans to see the concert on video, he wanted them to go to his concerts."

The phone message in ILTWYLM is great but I just thought it was strange the never changed the mess-up of the second chorus, perhaps MJ intended on that. I think the original version is better, I love how he beatboxes a little "chickaboom" and sings "ladada" at the end. I like how some songs fade out because they make you think there's more of the song - though as a tribute artist it's hard to perform these songs live with a good ending. I love the little chime at the end of Beautiful Girl.
 
lucilla said:
So, let's say this is true.
There's no "legal threat" for them plus the album sold 2.5 million in 1 year (not that good but not bad either).
Does that mean we should just expect more Cascio releases in the future?
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Legally speaking they could release the tracks and we could expect them to be released.

Strategically speaking, they have to be blind to ignore the rift that their release has caused among MJ fans. If they care about MJ fans' opinions then they should show some solid proof before releasing them. If they release them anyway, they can't lie any more that they take fans opinions into account as they claimed so in their report.

elapentela said:
Yes I want more Cascio's releases in the future and I will fight for this. I want every word recorded by Michael Jackson in the Cascio's house. Yes, I treat MJ the same like da Vinci, Chopin, Mozzart or Bethoven and I want to see everything what they ever did. Got it?
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I want, I want, I want... You think they'll release things because you want them to be released? As far as I am concerned, I don't get it. How are you going to fight if they decide not to release them?

elapentela said:
You don't have to buy it. I will buy it and over 2 mill. people will buy it. The greatest artists not always were perfect. Of course he would not release something what was done as "jamming" in the basement of the pretty modest house. If he would be alive. But he is dead now and people like me ( who are researching "the greatests") have the right to buy what they want.
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Yup, that's "our" Da Vinci, he had hell of a time in few months to jam in an underground of a modest house and to record his jamming 12 times, but he didn't have time throughout his entire career to record any more serious work in a professional studio than some snippets...

ADKIc3mAnX said:
I prefer Jason Malachi 1,000,000 times over Justin Bieber.


@dam2040 Well because it has 10 great Michael Jackson songs including one of his last recorded Best Of Joy and we the fans want hear what he was working on over the years. We cannot expect the songs to be perfect since from now on they will all be posthumous releases.
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Let's not mix up what is (im)perfect and doubting the authenticity. If many doubters also bought it is because the album contains 70% MJ.

Frankyboy5 said:
Another point made is "it's not good to MJ's legacy since it never got his seal of approval". Unfortunately it is natural for fans to accept whatever is released, be that This Is It or Michael. We're all in some way hypocrites.

Most of us at 2000 Watts hope for the day a Bad Tour 88 concert were to be released; I do too. However, MJ NEVER wanted these concerts released, just snippets shown as promos to give fans a taste of the true concert experience. He wrote that he wanted fans to see him live than to enjoy a video. Unfortunately I was right... BWT 88 will only be released after he left us.

Though one contradictory thing is MJ's other tour videos. He released 6 or so full HIStory Tour concerts televised around the world. Ironically the one available in best quality and most widely aired is HIStory Munich, which tbh is the worst of them all, but it was filmed with more camera angles for a DVD release and therefore he released it, but was dissatisfied with it to be released on DVD.

I don't see a lot of fans complaining about The Way You Love Me and its own use of Melodyne, or Hollywood Tonight looping vocals again at the end. They say MJ wanted to finish The Way You Love Me, but all they added was the phone call and melodyned vocals. Even the same lyrics mess-up of the second chorus is still there "I like the way how you're loving me" but the backgrounds sing "it doesn't matter how you are holding me" like the first chorus!
Click to expand...

Again, there is nothing hypocritical. MJ is dead and cannot record anything else any more nor perform in a concert. Releasing concert videos and all the unreleased material would bring joy to the MJ fan community. The same goes for the songs. It all depends how they are handled, melodyned, autotuned, before being released.

But all these things are minor concerns compared to doubting the vocals. So let's not mix up the way MJ's songs are produced and people doubting the vocals or needing a third party to tell them who they hear. As long as the vocals aren't doubted, all the rest is digestible. So I don't see any kind of hypocrisy there.

Who wouldn't like to see:

All the things MJ recorded with the Jackson 5, cartoons, shows, etc.
Then, MJ and Diana Ross shows and appearances, awards, tv performances, concerts such as Destiny, Triumph, Victory, Bad,
Captain EO in 3D, Ghosts on blu-ray, + making of etc. We don't have a single officially released making of Moonwalker, Ghosts, Captain EO, etc.

There are so many releasable things instead of the dubious vocals.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Legally speaking they could release the tracks and we could expect them to be released.

Strategically speaking, they have to be blind to ignore the rift that their release has caused among MJ fans. If they care about MJ fans' opinions then they should show some solid proof before releasing them. If they release them anyway, they can't lie any more that they take fans opinions into account as they claimed so in their report.



I want, I want, I want... You think they'll release things because you want them to be released? As far as I am concerned, I don't get it. How are you going to fight if they decide not to release them?



Yup, that's "our" Da Vinci, he had hell of a time in few months to jam in an underground of a modest house and to record his jamming 12 times, but he didn't have time throughout his entire career to record any more serious work in a professional studio than some snippets...



Let's not mix up what is (im)perfect and doubting the authenticity. If many doubters also bought it is because the album contains 70% MJ.



Again, there is nothing hypocritical. MJ is dead and cannot record anything else any more nor perform in a concert. Releasing concert videos and all the unreleased material would bring joy to the MJ fan community. The same goes for the songs. It all depends how they are handled, melodyned, autotuned, before being released.

But all these things are minor concerns compared to doubting the vocals. So let's not mix up the way MJ's songs are produced and people doubting the vocals or needing a third party to tell them who they hear. As long as the vocals aren't doubted, all the rest is digestible. So I don't see any kind of hypocrisy there.

Who wouldn't like to see:

All the things MJ recorded with the Jackson 5, cartoons, shows, etc.
Then, MJ and Diana Ross shows and appearances, awards, tv performances, concerts such as Destiny, Triumph, Victory, Bad,
Captain EO in 3D, Ghosts on blu-ray, + making of etc. We don't have a single officially released making of Moonwalker, Ghosts, Captain EO, etc.

There are so many releasable things instead of the dubious vocals.
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Officially it's 100% MJ

Doubterly it's 70% MJ.
 
lucilla said:
I was just wondering if they will release those tracks or not, based on what we know.
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I think it can go either way. The unhappiness among the fans were enough for them not to make monster a single and remove it from Cirque show.

on the other hand putting 20 seconds of monster in cirque show to start with shows us that they are still considering those songs - if they had decided "okay we'll not release them / use them" they wouldn't put it there in the first place.

To me their fast copyright complaints, cease and desists and even lawsuits they filed to stop / slow down / limit the leaks shows that they still have plans for these songs - if they no longer considered releasing them there wouldn't be a reason for this much effort.

We'll see how this one goes.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Officially it's 100% MJ

Doubterly it's 70% MJ.
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You missed my point. You said (the album was bought by people) because it has ten MJ great songs. I said (among those people who bought it) the doubters (unless you didn't count them as people) bought it because there is 70% MJ (to them).
 
ivy said:
I think it can go either way. The unhappiness among the fans were enough for them not to make monster a single and remove it from Cirque show.

on the other hand putting 20 seconds of monster in cirque show to start with shows us that they are still considering those songs - if they had decided "okay we'll not release them / use them" they wouldn't put it there in the first place.

To me their fast copyright complaints, cease and desists and even lawsuits they filed to stop / slow down / limit the leaks shows that they still have plans for these songs - if they no longer considered releasing them there wouldn't be a reason for this much effort.

We'll see how this one goes.
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[youtube]4ADh8Fs3YdU[/youtube]
 
Sigh... I bought both Michael and Immortal. I hardly listen to either. :sigh:

I didn't buy Michael because it has "10" great MJ songs. Just saying.
 
love is magical said:
Sigh... I bought both Michael and Immortal. I hardly listen to either. :sigh:

I didn't buy Michael because it has "10" great MJ songs. Just saying.
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Well I bought 3 "Michael" albums, but certainly not for the 3 dubious vocals. I offered one to my brother.

I still haven't bought "Immortal" as I alrady have many MJ official remixes that I was buying on maxi CDs when they were coming out. So the "Immortal" album didn't over-excite me, but I will prbably buy it as soon as I have time to go to the store.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Well I bought 3 "Michael" albums, but certainly not for the 3 dubious vocals. I offered one to my brother.

I still haven't bought "Immortal" as I alrady have many MJ official remixes that I was buying on maxi CDs when they were coming out. So the "Immortal" album didn't over-excite me, but I will prbably buy it as soon as I have time to go to the store.
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Go to see the show first. Then, may be we'll have a different level of appreciation for it. Immortal is good. But, it's not the kind of album I reach out to.
 
love is magical said:
Go to see the show first. Then, may be we'll have a different level of appreciation for it. Immortal is good. But, it's not the kind of album I reach out to.
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I saw the trailer, it looked fantasticabulous!!! I am looking forward to it and hope they come to Europe! :)
 
They are. They will have three shows in London. I may come to London in October. Depends on how decent my year-end bonus is.

I think they might have dates in Belgium.
 
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