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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Pentum reporting out. I won't come in this thread anymore until something new develop.

I'll return when something new shows up, be sure! ;)
 
Alex, don't forget about the Cascio tracks :p

P.S. Are you still BUMPER?
 
ivy said:
again perfect example of lack of empathy. I don't care what you see as an insult or not. As I was at the receiving end of it what matters is how I perceive it. We are in a thread where people used words such as utter bullshit nonsense and excuse and we had huge debates about it and there have been banning.

So it's insulting when someone jumps to your post and the first word from their mouth is "irrelevant". I spend my time and effort here to type something in a nice fashion all relaxed and the first thing written to it is "irrelevant" ? seriously? and why would I be okay to it when it's clearly disrespectful to my opinion? The one rule of this thread? I saw red. Also Stella is no place to know what I heard or not. Life continues, a few days ago I heard burn 2 nite and I didn't feel the need to report it. I don't care what stella thinks he/she knows or is a fact, he/she absolutely knows nothing about me.

So you can be all okay and fine and dandy but I will not accept such disrespect to my opinion or posts. So I used the same word against Stella and came the complaints as always , good so now you can taste your own medicine. Honestly I'm f*cking fed up with this constant disrespect of opinions coming from a few people and I'm gonna call people on it. Don't like it? Tough luck.

And stella please drop the disability complaints, you are not the only one with a disability (heck how do you know that I don't even have one) and it has nothing to do with your disability , it's about your tone and if you can't handle this thread perhaps you shouldn't come here.
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I am aware that people used harsh words such as bullshit. I am aware that Samhabib exaggerated when using it and today we're just joking about it, but there was nobody killed for heaven's sake.

However, Samhabib did say something quite fair (I'm paraphrasing): "I don't have to respect your opinion at all. I respect your right to opinion, but I don't respect your opinion. For example if you have a nazi opinion, do I have to respect it? No."
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Until the proof comes up one way or another, there will be doubts about the tracks among the fan community, and that won't help MJ's legacy in any case. So I don't know why you are rejoycing yourself at the idea that people might be wrong and you right.

We already want those tracks to be Michael, but we just can't hear him, and no musicologist will change that. We need to see some believable proofs like Michael actually singing them in the studio, or hearing Michael talking about them etc.
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I would say the same

"So I don't know why you are rejoycing yourself at the idea that people might be wrong and you right."
 
Jesta said:
Having a joke or a dirty limerick helps.

...!!!!! LET'S BRING BACK SEXY TIME!!!
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StellaJackson said:
I already done give you a funny rhyme!
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Jesta said:
Yes, but Malachi isn't sexy to the people on this board... A rhyme about gold pants would've been more effective ;)
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Taking a deep breathe in and a deep breathe out maybe helps.

queen_gina-michael-jackson-14502553-416-384.gif


^^^^Sexy enough?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I would say the same

"So I don't know why you are rejoycing yourself at the idea that people might be wrong and you right."
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I am not rejoycing, I am knocking my head against the wall trying to hear Michael on those tracks. I never ever said "you'll see when it's going to be proven that yo're right or wrong".

I actually don't care who's right or wrong. As a matter of fact I want to be proven wrong!
 
Ok then, if you guys WANT the tracks to be Michael, stop calling the tracks utter bullshit and garbage.
Or otherwise (if proven etc etc) I have NO idea how you guys will handle that, seriously.

If you want the tracks to be Michael you guys should atleast rate the songs for the music and not the vocals only. It all just doesn't make sense.
 
All us doubters want to be proven wrong, we dont want to come to terms that fake songs were released. it would be more heartbreaking than if they were real and they turned out like that.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I am not rejoycing, I am knocking my head against the wall trying to hear Michael on those tracks. I never ever said "you'll see when it's going to be proven that yo're right or wrong".

I actually don't care who's right or wrong. As a matter of fact I want to be proven wrong!
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But many doubters do and on the picture I made yesterday about what I called a 25th anniversary of "Michael" some people said "It will have only 7 songs" why would it have 7 songs ? Because they are "sure" the songs are "fake" when in fact (Officially) their real.

I mean what if the Cascio's don't have video footage of Michael recording them ?

Then it will never end until their proven "fake" which I really think it's impossible.
 
ivy said:
again perfect example of lack of empathy. I don't care what you see as an insult or not. As I was at the receiving end of it what matters is how I perceive it. We are in a thread where people used words such as utter bullshit nonsense and excuse and we had huge debates about it and there have been banning.

So it's insulting when someone jumps to your post and the first word from their mouth is "irrelevant". I spend my time and effort here to type something in a nice fashion all relaxed and the first thing written to it is "irrelevant" ? seriously? and why would I be okay to it when it's clearly disrespectful to my opinion? The one rule of this thread? I saw red. Also Stella is no place to know what I heard or not. Life continues, a few days ago I heard burn 2 nite and I didn't feel the need to report it. I don't care what stella thinks he/she knows or is a fact, he/she absolutely knows nothing about me.

So you can be all okay and fine and dandy but I will not accept such disrespect to my opinion or posts. So I used the same word against Stella and came the complaints as always , good so now you can taste your own medicine. Honestly I'm f*cking fed up with this constant disrespect of opinions coming from a few people and I'm gonna call people on it. Don't like it? Tough luck.

And stella please drop the disability complaints, you are not the only one with a disability (heck how do you know that I don't even have one) and it has nothing to do with your disability , it's about your tone and if you can't handle this thread perhaps you shouldn't come here.
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My so called lack of empathy has an awful lot to do with my disability actually. Calling your opinion irrelevant is not insulting. And if you think it is, then why did you have to lower yourself to the same level by calling me personally irrelevant? What I said wasn't disrespectful at all imo, so stop being so high and mighty. You really need to calm down.
 
OK, I too have had it. Again.

ADKIc3mAnX, if you wish to be a credible part of this debate, then riddle me this:

What makes Monster "one of MJ's best"? What parts of Monster do you hear Michael Jackson the most and why? Comparing the lyrics to songs of similar themes i.e. Ghosts, Is It Scary, Threatened etc., what stands out about these lyrics? What metaphors are used? How do these metaphors make the lyrics stand out against the aforementioned songs? How does this song stand out vocally against the aforementioned songs? Why does this song require pasted breaths and vocals periodically throughout? Link one example of the vocalists accent and vocal technique to Michael's accent and vocal technique from a past non-Cascio related song.

Compare Breaking News to songs of songs of similar themes i.e. Privacy, Tabloid Junkie, Leave Me Alone etc., what makes Breaking News stand out lyrically and vocally? What parts of the song sound most like Michael Jackson and why? Connect a vocal technique used in this song to a previous non-Cascio related Michael Jackson song and note similarities.

What parts of Burn Tonight sound the most like Michael Jackson to you and why? Compare the "hee-hee" from this song to another non-Cascio related Michael Jackson song and note their similarities in detail.

Compare the opening of Speechless and the Fall in Love snippet and describe vocal nuances i.e. pronunciation, accent etc.

Compare Earth Song to the live rehearsal of Earth Song in the film "Michael Jackson's This Is It". Describe similarities and differences between the first halves of the songs, noting such things as technique, accent etc.
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Just questions off the top of my head. Examples of such things doubters have taken the time to do. I look forward to the reply.
 
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IvoDT said:
Ok then, if you guys WANT the tracks to be Michael, stop calling the tracks utter bullshit and garbage.
Or otherwise (if proven etc etc) I have NO idea how you guys will handle that, seriously.

If you want the tracks to be Michael you guys should atleast rate the songs for the music and not the vocals only. It all just doesn't make sense.
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Look, when you hear on a track:

-snorts (a fact)
-shaky vibrato (unusual and annoyingly shaky; fact)
-poor lyrics (fact)
-copy-pasted words within sentences (fact)
-copy-pasted "aows" and "dahs" (fact)
-too much humming (fact)
and many other details

then it is hard to call those songs any better than that. Michael's previously released demos aren't called crap, because they do sound like demos. Theses tracks don't even sound like demos.
 
I said they would have 7 songs, and i believe weather the songs real or not they arent the quality that should be released. Being the only set of unprocessed vocals they used for the song. They cant change how the song sounds. They are innocent until proven guilty, and i believe that becuase Monster and Breaking News were moved from the Immortal tour that shows us that putting the songs in would hurt sales. So why would they put the songs back into the album if they want it to sell more?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Look, when you hear on a track:

-snorts (a fact)
-shaky vibrato (unusual and anyingly shaky; fact)
-poor lyrics (fact)
-copy-pasted words within sentences (fact)
-copy-pasted "aows" and "dahs" (fact)
-too much humming (fact)
and many other details

then it is hard to call those songs any better than that. Michael's previously released demos aren't called crap, because they do sound like demos. Theses tracks don't even sound like demos.
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They arent Demos, they were recently brought to completion by a team of producers. fyi
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Well you do not know that do you now maybe a 25th anniversary edition of "Michael" might have Monster Alternative Version without 50 Cent that's why it remains unreleased because they decided to use 50 Cent on the song like Michael intended.

Update: You sound like you know what the future will be "Doesn't matter what your opinion is and how much you love the song. It won't happen."
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The update is unnecessary. Why? Because I didn't sound like I know the future. Again, it's not my problem that you choose to misinterpret my post. If I said things like "I know Rick Santorum will come on top of Mitt Romney to get the GOP presidential nomination and beat Barack Obama in the general election in November," then you can call me out. In fact, I don't need to have the ability to predict the future to know Monster (album or pre-rap version) will not be re-released, I just need to have logic and common sense, like ivy always said.

First, Monster is not a hit. By now, it has close to zero potential to become one. It's a song released after the passing of Michael. So, there won't be any live performance or video to promote the song. Why would Sony re-release an obscure song from a posthumous album? The first time it's released, it failed to generate any interest. Sony cancelled the plan to release the song as single and took it off the Immortal setlist. The song is not going to be on the Glee tribute episode. There simply isn't any indication that the song will experience a renaissance.

Second, Michael isnt the type of album that warrants a re-release. Unlike Thriller, Michael isn't the greatest selling of all time. Unlike Bad, Michael didn't generate commercial hits one after another. So, what's the reason for a 25th anniversary edition? Michael is just a grab bag of songs that Michael did not complete and knew very little about. You think it's a good idea to re-release Michael 25 years later? To celebrate what? That Michael Jackson was dead for 25 years.

Third, the music industry is deteriorating and people's listening habit is drastically different. When Thriller and BAD were released, people bought tapes and CDs that would worn out. Now, people get the Michael album, import the songs to iTune library and listen with iPod. The CD will not wear out. I don't see how albums released post iTune revolution have any valid business and practical reasons to be re-released.
 
StellaJackson said:
The original versions from before the producers worked on them still have all those things in.
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Well yea, but they were "completed" not in Michaels term of completion but theirs. So i dont consider them Demos, even though they are technically in a demo state they will never be more or less.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I am aware that people used harsh words such as bullshit. I am aware that Samhabib exaggerated when using it and today we're just joking about it, but there was nobody killed for heaven's sake.

However, Samhabib did say something quite fair (I'm paraphrasing): "I don't have to respect your opinion at all. I respect your right to opinion, but I don't respect your opinion. For example if you have a nazi opinion, do I have to respect it? No."
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honestly that was the most stupid thing I heard for long time. he was confusing respect for an opinion versus agreeing to an opinion.

respect to an opinion would mean that you need to respect that people have opinions regardless of how out there they might be such as Nazi opinion.
on the other hand you have the choice to agree to it or not.

Let me give you something else

I respect everyone's opinions. I don't agree with a lot of them, but I respect them. I will only begin to object if they decide to stuff their views down my throat as if they're expecting me to agree to everything they say. I have a respect for anyone's opinion, but when you start shit talking about my opinion or beliefs, that's when that respect is gone. Not just for then, but for a long long time.
 
IvoDT said:
Ok then, if you guys WANT the tracks to be Michael, stop calling the tracks utter bullshit and garbage.
Or otherwise (if proven etc etc) I have NO idea how you guys will handle that, seriously.

If you want the tracks to be Michael you guys should atleast rate the songs for the music and not the vocals only. It all just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

I think many people have said that even if the songs are proven real, it won't change how they think about the songs - mediocre songs.

Many people call known Michael Jackson songs, like Privacy, Heartbreaker, garbage. I don't see they ha e problem living with themselves.

If Michael is standing in front of me, I have no problem telling him I think Breaking News sucks.
 
ivy said:
honestly that was the most stupid thing I heard for long time. he was confusing respect for an opinion versus agreeing to an opinion.

respect to an opinion would mean that you need to respect that people have opinions regardless of how out there they might be such as Nazi opinion.
on the other hand you have the choice to agree to it or not.

Let me give you something else

I respect everyone's opinions. I don't agree with a lot of them, but I respect them. I will only begin to object if they decide to stuff their views down my throat as if they're expecting me to agree to everything they say. I have a respect for anyone's opnion, but when you start shit talking about my opinion or beliefs, that's when that respect is gone. Not just for then, but for a long long time.
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That's called respecting people's right to opinion and not respecting people's opinion.

By the way, you are talking about respect right after saying it's the most stupid thing you've heard. How's that respect?
 
love is magical said:
I think many people have said that even if the songs are proven real, it won't change how they think about the songs - mediocre songs.

Many people call known Michael Jackson songs, like Privacy, Heartbreaker, garbage. I don't see they ha e problem living with themselves.

If Michael is standing in front of me, I have no problem telling him I think Breaking News sucks.
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What if Breaking News is a Finished Released song on his 2009 Album if he was still alive etc?
 
Jesta said:
OK, I too have had it. Again.

ADKIc3mAnX, if you wish to be a credible part of this debate, then riddle me this:

What makes Monster "one of MJ's best"? What parts of Monster do you hear Michael Jackson the most and why? Comparing the lyrics to songs of similar themes i.e. Ghosts, Is It Scary, Threatened etc., what stands out about these lyrics? What metaphors are used? How do these metaphors make the lyrics stand out against the aforementioned songs? How does this song stand out vocally against the aforementioned songs? Why does this song require pasted breaths and vocals periodically throughout? Link one example of the vocalists accent and vocal technique to Michael's accent and vocal technique from a past non-Cascio related song.

Compare Breaking News to songs of songs of similar themes i.e. Privacy, Tabloid Junkie, Leave Me Alone etc., what makes Breaking News stand out lyrically and vocally? What parts of the song sound most like Michael Jackson and why? Connect a vocal technique used in this song to a previous non-Cascio related Michael Jackson song and note similarities.

What parts of Burn Tonight sound the most like Michael Jackson to you and why? Compare the "hee-hee" from this song to another non-Cascio related Michael Jackson song and note their similarities in detail.

Compare the opening of Speechless and the Fall in Love snippet and describe vocal nuances i.e. pronunciation, accent etc.

--------------------------------------------------


Just questions off the top of my head. I look forward to the reply.
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I said this before and it's IMO dumb to ask a believer where they hear Michael Jackson and the most since being a believer means you believe the song is sung by Michael Jackson so yeah that answers that.

I said that Monster is my favorite song on the "Michael" album not Michael's best.

Before I responded to someone saying that if they wish to believe it's Michael's best then it's their opinion.


What stands out from these lyrics ? I would not know how to answer this since the I don't like a part of the song I like the song.

Now why does the song require copy and pastes maybe because the vocals were guide vocals and Michael did not get to record the final version so the producers took what they have since they cannot get new vocals and pasted some older vocals to fill in the blanks.
 
Jesta said:
OK, I too have had it. Again.

ADKIc3mAnX, if you wish to be a credible part of this debate, then riddle me this:

What makes Monster "one of MJ's best"? What parts of Monster do you hear Michael Jackson the most and why? Comparing the lyrics to songs of similar themes i.e. Ghosts, Is It Scary, Threatened etc., what stands out about these lyrics? What metaphors are used? How do these metaphors make the lyrics stand out against the aforementioned songs? How does this song stand out vocally against the aforementioned songs? Why does this song require pasted breaths and vocals periodically throughout? Link one example of the vocalists accent and vocal technique to Michael's accent and vocal technique from a past non-Cascio related song.

Compare Breaking News to songs of songs of similar themes i.e. Privacy, Tabloid Junkie, Leave Me Alone etc., what makes Breaking News stand out lyrically and vocally? What parts of the song sound most like Michael Jackson and why? Connect a vocal technique used in this song to a previous non-Cascio related Michael Jackson song and note similarities.

What parts of Burn Tonight sound the most like Michael Jackson to you and why? Compare the "hee-hee" from this song to another non-Cascio related Michael Jackson song and note their similarities in detail.

Compare the opening of Speechless and the Fall in Love snippet and describe vocal nuances i.e. pronunciation, accent etc.

Compare Earth Song to the live rehearsal of Earth Song in the film "Michael Jackson's This Is It". Describe similarities and differences between the first halves of the songs, noting such things as technique, accent etc.
--------------------------------------------------



Just questions off the top of my head. Examples of such things doubters have taken the time to do. I look forward to the reply.
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you wont get an actual answer lol I have tried (and so has love) countless times. I gave up.

Ah there we go. You just responded with a non answer. It is NOT dumb to ask a believer where they hear MJ most. I think Michael's voice is present through 100% of slave to the rhythm for example. And I can pinpoint EXACT moments in that song that are classic MJ and compare it with other tracks or even the way he has pronounced words in past interviews. Its not hard. I would do it now but I'm typing this on a kindle and its super annoying lol

At least I get y u cant pinpoint the best lyrics of monster. There's so much greatness and profundity to choose from. I mean what to go with? Drunk enough to fall? Coming at u rather too fast? Toughie.
My favorite line of stranger in Moscow is kremlins shadow beliittling me Stalin's tomb wont let me be. And here absndonrd in my fame armageddon of the brain. Is this so hard? People are annoyed because u don't take a stand. Its frustrating.
 
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