Michael - The Great Album Debate

Funny, I've been trying to do something like Gary for months now to end this annoying debate. The current status is this:
"due to the current circumstances and legal reasons" it's not gonna happen soon. Let's see if it will happen after the lawsuits.
 
Why don't you guys make Eddie Cascio agree to answer all questions without him knowing them.

It's a Q&A and not an interrogation. So everyone has the option to not answer and we can't really force them to answer. And even though they might agree to answer any and all questions (Dr. Shafer for example) they might not feel like answering some questions when they get them (Demerol questions for example)
 
Well we dont want Eddie talking about how "Michael liked the videogame susie jumps over flowers" and how he liked butterfly wings becuase they are sometimes orange....
(lol i made those examples up). We want Cascio track answers....no it was processing...etc. We want to know without a doubt how they were made. No shower crap, becuase that was for different songs....Focus on the 12 Cascio tracks and anything about them.
 
It's a Q&A and not an interrogation. So everyone has the option to not answer and we can't really force them to answer. And even though they might agree to answer any and all questions (Dr. Shafer for example) they might not feel like answering some questions when they get them (Demerol questions for example)
Oh I know lol but it would be cool if he agreed.
 
Well we dont want Eddie talking about how "Michael liked the videogame susie jumps over flowers" and how he liked butterfly wings becuase they are sometimes orange....
(lol i made those examples up). We want Cascio track answers....no it was processing...etc. We want to know without a doubt how they were made. No shower crap, becuase that was for different songs....Focus on the 12 Cascio tracks and anything about them.
Maybe if he can demonstrate what he did to them before Teddy Riley was given the songs.
 
Stella, I've deleted your threats as we can not act in this manner here on MJJC,

You can by all means discuss and voice your opinion, however threats no matter what will not be tolerated here on MJJC.

And before anyone starts with the we are doing this for the estate sony ish, that could not be further from the truth its about protecting MJJC surely you understand that.

Thank you - carry on.

Understood. I was extremely annoyed at what had happened with a video on youtube. But yes, I probably should have held my breath and counted to ten! Sincere apologies. This was not the place to post it.
 
Well first let's try to secure the Q&A , if and after that we can worry about the questions
 
Maybe if he can demonstrate what he did to them before Teddy Riley was given the songs.

Thats all i think he could awnser unless he was there with Teddy. I mean we have so many questions about the takes, copy and paste, lead nad background vocals. why its so hard to identify porte between the cascio singer/ and or michael. Why the vibrato sounds like Jason Malachi etc.....
 
Love you all and glad to see you're still here fighting for the truth! I'm at the local library, just decided to check up on everyone! Hi Love, Hi Jesta!! Hi Arklove! Hey ivy!!! Hey Bumper!!! Hey claudiadoina! Hey everyone!!
Hi Aniram :hiya:Love you too. Post more often.
 
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I doubt there is anything that Eddie Cascio can do, other than give prepared answers. He won't show any proof that the songs are Michael because, as a lot of us believe here, there isn't any. There won't be any pictures, notes or most importantly the recordings that were made during the sessions where we would expect to hear Michael talking about the recording, asking for another take etc. With 12 songs, featuring multiple takes, you can be sure that that those kind of recordings exist. As we know from many of Michael's demo's, things like him talking, mumbling a lyric, laughing etc is very common. It is almost certain that if he really recorded these songs then they would have those tapes. But they don't exist and we will never get any more proof than what we have now. The word of Eddie Cascio, no matter if he repeats it a thousand times, is simply not good enough when we have such suspicious sounding songs that are, to many fans including myself, the exact vocals of Jason Cupeta. A man who was all too happy to make comments on forums and make youtube videos to clarify previous confusion regarding his own songs, but has now taken the cowards way out. To me, in my opinion, it is obvious that the songs are him. And god I wish it weren't true.
 
^^

and people disagreed with me when I said talking about this , showing any evidence / proof was futile and wouldn't make any difference.
 
^^

and people disagreed with me when I said talking about this , showing any evidence / proof was futile and wouldn't make any difference.

If he showed outtakes, raw vocals, etc etc that proved beyond any doubt that it is Michael then I will eat my fedora. You can hold me to that!
 
^^

and people disagreed with me when I said talking about this , showing any evidence / proof was futile and wouldn't make any difference.

But if he shows evidence that proves michael is singing, surely some will doubt it be ill believe it when i see or hear it
 
But if he shows evidence that proves michael is singing, surely some will doubt it be ill believe it when i see or hear it

and that brings us to the issue of what people consider as "evidence".

for example he can show some stuff and people can still reject it as not- acceptable, not enough, not convincing and so on. what then?

ps : I think we all agree that there's probably no definitive evidence and it's circumstantial and therefore it can be both rejected and accepted.
 
StellaJackson;3573154 said:
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I doubt there is anything that Eddie Cascio can do, other than give prepared answers. He won't show any proof that the songs are Michael because, as a lot of us believe here, there isn't any. There won't be any pictures, notes or most importantly the recordings that were made during the sessions where we would expect to hear Michael talking about the recording, asking for another take etc. With 12 songs, featuring multiple takes, you can be sure that that those kind of recordings exist. As we know from many of Michael's demo's, things like him talking, mumbling a lyric, laughing etc is very common. It is almost certain that if he really recorded these songs then they would have those tapes. But they don't exist and we will never get any more proof than what we have now. The word of Eddie Cascio, no matter if he repeats it a thousand times, is simply not good enough when we have such suspicious sounding songs that are, to many fans including myself, the exact vocals of Jason Cupeta. A man who was all too happy to make comments on forums and make youtube videos to clarify previous confusion regarding his own songs, but has now taken the cowards way out. To me, in my opinion, it is obvious that the songs are him. And god I wish it weren't true.


If they had those outtakes they would have been show by now....Say he record Monster with 4 takes.

Say the songs set up like:

0:30
Intro Verse
0:51
0
0:52
Chorus
1:30

1:30
Verse 1 “mama got you in a zig zag”
1:50

1:51
Chorus (with Backgrounds)
2:15
Chorus
2:30

2:30
Fading Verse (eat your soul)
2:50

Bridge

3:30
Chorus
3:50

3:50
Falsetto Chorus
4:05

4:07
Incomplete pasted Chorus (why you, why you)
4:30

Ending Verse
4:44


During the First take lets assume that Michael got through the intro verse Mumbling, and moving into the First Chorus and nailed it and stoped the take to get the lyrics right on the first verse.
During the Second take lets assume Michael nailed the into verse and skidded throgh he first chorus becuase he allready recorded it. He went on then recording a third verse, but couldnt think of words so he used "mama se mama got you in a zig zag" then recorded the backgrounds to the song, with some sucess.
During the Third take Michael recorded the next two chrous, but bad, and incomplete. only sentence fragments and such exist. He also then recorded the Fading verse (and they eat your soul) and then stopped for a bit to work out the bridge with Eddie, but this wont be completed until 50 cent is in the picture. the Third take picks up with Michael trying a Falsetto Chorus, but he instructs Eddie to use a chorus before that to build tension.

They stop for a coffee break

Later they pick up for a final fourth recording session for Monster. The first chorus Michael works out is very incomplete, and then he picks up and finalizes the song during the ending chorus.
Michael then says he will work on the song later, and 2 years later without returning to it he dies.

Eddie is now let with a Vocal Track of the song monster. What does he do? Completes it.

He uses the First Verse from the second take to complete Intro Verse
He uses the Chorus 1 from take 1 after the 1st Verse.
Throughout the process the Second Verse (Zig Zag) has only one take he uses that take having no other choice.
Some of the backgrounds michael added during the second verse are used then.
To tighten the song up more during some of it he uses former MJ Adlibs being none were recorded as Michael Died.
when Teddy Riley works on the song he adds the extra MJ "Monster! Monster!" after some verses throughout the song.
The bridge later is completed by a Rap provided by 50 cent.
Back to Eddie, after the bridge he is really left with a empty shell. He reuses Chorus 1.
Then Michaels Fallsetto Chorus is used, and is blended in with old sentence fragments and the incomplete verse that uses alot of pasted (WHY YOU, WHY YOU) Haunting me...Stalkin me?)
Then finally Michaels final verse which is only 14 seconds long is used.

Then song now finalized lacks mumbling, contains son odd lyrics. Was sewn together with pasted old adlibs and incomplete verses and backgrounds.
That is most likely how the track was created. This likely is an accurate representation of what could have happened. So if they didnt delete outtakes, they should still exist.
 
ivy;3573028 said:
Now, the estate is focusing on projects to keep the Jackson flame alive for long-time fans while introducing younger audiences to his work. Jackson left behind enough music for one more album, according to a person with knowledge of the singer’s business. (A 2010 album of new songs that the estate released sold a half-million copies.)

(ps : that number is USA sales number)

I decided to copy the sales number info here as well


first some information

Nielsen SoundScan is an information and sales tracking system created by Mike Fine and Mike Shalett. Soundscan is the official method of tracking sales of music and music video products throughout the United States and Canada. Data is collected weekly and made available every Wednesday to subscribers, which include executives from all facets of record companies, publishing firms, music retailers, independent promoters, film and TV, and artist management. SoundScan is the sales source for the Billboard music charts, making it the official source of sales records in the music industry.

Here's proof

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/indu...on-two-years-since-his-death-1005251752.story

June 25, 2011

While it's been two years since Michael Jackson died on June 25, 2009, his solo catalog of music continues to post solid numbers in the United States, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

Jackson's 2010 album sales were bolstered by the release of his posthumous studio set "Michael," in December. So far, that album has sold a total of 503,000. ("Michael" finished 2010 as the year's 74th biggest seller, four slots above "Number Ones," which moved 388,000 in 2010 vs. "Michael's" 405,000.)

this is the 2010 year end chart - http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2010.htm

29 Michael Jackson - Michael - Epic - 1,2 million copies

so it's 500,000 sales in USA


-----------------

I also did some math :) ehehehe

2010 sales of Michael in USA was 405,000. for the first 6 months of 2011 it sold 98,000 copies. I assumed it would sell another 98,000 copies between june-december 2011 for a total of 196,000. It was a 48% of the 2010.

I assumed the same sales trend will happen in the world in 2011. So I added 48% to 1.2 Million sales numbers. That would bring the sales to 1,776,000 total worldwide.

control : from the 2011 top 40 album lists as Michael album didn't chart we knew that it's sales had to be lower than 1.1 million units (as the 40th placed album had 1.1 Million sales figure).
576,000 sales figure for 2011 calculated from the above information / assumption theory is below this control point of 1.1 Million.
 
Does anyone else notice the snort at the end of Monster, the album version? I didn't notice this until yesterday, and it sounds much more obvious than the ones on the other songs, this one sounds like after singing with a runny nose, someone snorted to clear his nasal airways. The others sounded like it could've been a glitch in production, to me, but this one sounds like a blatant sniff. Doesn't provide anything new whatsoever, I just thought it was funny.


And it's not present in the "demo" version of the song, without 50's rap.
 
Does anyone else notice the snort at the end of Monster, the album version? I didn't notice this until yesterday, and it sounds much more obvious than the ones on the other songs, this one sounds like after singing with a runny nose, someone snorted to clear his nasal airways. The others sounded like it could've been a glitch in production, to me, but this one sounds like a blatant sniff. Doesn't provide anything new whatsoever, I just thought it was funny.


And it's not present in the "demo" version of the song, without 50's rap.
The version without 50 Cent is the alternative version which is still unreleased.
 
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