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Michael - The Great Album Debate

love is magical said:
While internet has become one of the most important media, internet is not "be-all, end-all." There are other ways to promote, such as product tie-in, better displays, etc...

There are people like me, born in the late 70's and early 80's, who still watch TV, listen to radio and go to an actual store.

I agreed with Arky. Effective promotion, to me, means I know the product's existance without having to spend effort to look for it. When I went to Best Buy to get the Immortal album, I had to go round and round to find it. The albums were placed in the bottom shelf. When I went to get Vision in 2010, I saw TII got better display. Think about it. I'm a fan. I'm willing to spend the time to look for the album. Casual fans and non-fans simply won't spend the effort. They don't spend hours on forums, like this one.

When I go to Starbucks to get coffee, I see Michael Buble CD (well... I know Michael Jackson and Starbucks would be an odd match.)

When I watch TV, I see that Lady Gaga / google commercial running non-stop.

Some fans have suggested ways to promote Michael, such as having Lenny and Akron appered on shows like Letterman, American Idol, and having one of the songs, such as Another Day or Behind the Mask, as the theme song of a movie...
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I'm from the the early 90's and I love going to stores to buy Michael Jackson stuff it's just the feeling of going to pick up new music like when Invincible released, now when I went to Best Buy to get Immortal my store has a Michael Jackson section with only Michael Jackson music, DVD, etc so I went and the lady told me sorry your too late I was like WTF in my head and I got someone else to go to the back and get me some albums and set more up on the shelfs.

IMG_11-11-23_09AC86C4-4277-45E7-844E-72EA9FA467DB.jpg
 
Now, I almost want there is an artist, like Michael Jackson, who comes up with an album, like Thriller, that rejuvenates and revolutionizes the music industry like Michael did in 1982. It seems we are experiencing a vicious cycle. Poor sales lead to poor promotions, which lead to poorer sales.

But, when Michael released Thriller, all the planets were lining up to send him up to the stratosphere. The entertainment industry has become too fractious nowadays. Music is not the only industry in decline. Movie industry is in continuous decline as well.
 
love is magical said:
Now, I almost want there is an artist, like Michael Jackson, who comes up with an album, like Thriller, that rejuvenates and revolutionizes the music industry like Michael did in 1982. It seems we are experiencing a vicious cycle. Poor sales lead to poor promotions, which lead to poorer sales.

But, when Michael released Thriller, all the planets were lining up to send him up to the stratosphere. The entertainment industry has become too fractious nowadays. Music is not the only industry in decline. Movie industry is in continuous decline as well.
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It's like sports, literature, and so on. Many do sports hoping huge financial gain (e.g. David Backham's salary 800,000 euros/month = more than 1million u.s. $/month) and are ready to dope themselves for it, rather than doing it out of love.
Writing books, or newspapers articles hoping to shock or reveal secrets (so the public buys it) rather than informing the public.

Despite Michael's huge financial gain, he wasn't singing for money, but because he loved doing music, just the way Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan love(d) kung fu or Edson Pele football or Shakespeare writing plays or Mozart writing compositions...

Today's industry's cash-in, cash-out, and who cares about the talent or brilliant ideas. Today the only idea that counts is easy money, with average people as performes or as decisions takers.
 
love is magical said:
When I go to Starbucks to get coffee, I see Michael Buble CD (well... I know Michael Jackson and Starbucks would be an odd match.)

When I watch TV, I see that Lady Gaga / google commercial running non-stop.
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neither of those are record company paid promotion for their album.

Michael Buble is playing in Starbucks bottled drinks commercials and that's why you see his albums at their stores.

Gaga commercial is by and for Google and not her album.

Similarly the Pepsi commercial that Michael is in is seeing a heavy run on TV especially at prime time shows such as X-factor and so on.

Those are not comparable examples IMO as they are not album / record company related and it's impossible for Michael to be a spokesperson for any brand.

Some fans have suggested ways to promote Michael, such as having Lenny and Akron appered on shows like Letterman, American Idol, and having one of the songs, such as Another Day or Behind the Mask, as the theme song of a movie...
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that would be a strategy, to release Hold My Hand, Another Day and Monster and use Akon, Lenny Kravitz and 50 cent as a promotion tool. They did that with Akon but not the rest. I know a lot of people won't like what I'm saying but I believe Monster had a huge success potential. 50 cent has a huge following and that song was received very well among rap lovers. 50 cents popularity could have been wonderful and I think they initially planned that and later changed their minds about it.
 
If 50 could have promoted Monster Michael could have had a better sucess....however. I believe it wasnt in the plan of things to have that album sell well. Becuase it wasnt recieved warmly by fans. I believe we will get a new MJ album around 2014.

Any thoughts on what will be on the next album?
 
ivy said:
The Brad Buxter one doesn't have a "sound recording" or performance , as of now the registration only seems to be lyrics + musical notes.

r we sure they are different things? I mean it's possible this to be new lyrics or music to the same song. Separate authors that do separate things can register them separately - I mean if he wanted to retain his own rights and not wanted a joint work he can do a separate registration.

Or it could be a totally different thing.

-------------------------------------------
Select Performing Arts (PA) if you are registering a musical work (with or without lyrics)

Select Sound Recording (SR) if you are registering a sound recording. Also, select Sound Recording if you are registering both the sound recording and the underlying recorded musical, dramatic, or literary work(s), along with the sound recording of the work(s). Sound recordings are works that result from the fixation of a series of musical, spoken, or other sounds.
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Nope, there are two registrations for the Buxer Monster. One for music, which I already posted, and another for the actual sound recording. Same setup as Hollywood Tonight.


Type of Work: Sound Recording
Registration Number / Date: SRu001011009 / 2010-10-15
Application Title: Monster.
Title: Monster.
Description: Electronic file (eService)
Copyright Claimant: Bradley Buxer. Address: 553 Summit Oaks Ct., Nashville, TN, 37221, United States.
Michael Prince. Address: 30402 Vineyard Lane, Santa Clarita, CA, 91384, United States.
The Estate of Michael J. Jackson d.b.a. c/o Hoffman, Sabban & Watenmaker, Transfer: By Will. Address: 10880 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 2200, Los Angeles, CA, 90024, United States.
Date of Creation: 2009
Authorship on Application: Michael Durham Prince; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: sound recording, production.
Bradley Buxer; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: sound recording, performance, production.
Michael J. Jackson, -2009; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: performance, production.
Rights and Permissions: Songwriters Guild of America, 209 10th Avenue South, Suite 321, Nashville, TN, 37203, United States, (615) 742-9945, sfein@songwritersguild.com
Copyright Note: C.O. correspondence.
Names: Prince, Michael Durham
Buxer, Bradley
Jackson, Michael J., -2009
Prince, Michael
The Estate of Michael J. Jackson

It wasn't registered until October of 2010 which would explain why Cascio/Porte weren't aware of it when they knocked out their own Monster in late 09/early 2010 with Jason on the vocals imo.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
If 50 could have promoted Monster Michael could have had a better sucess....however. I believe it wasnt in the plan of things to have that album sell well. Becuase it wasnt recieved warmly by fans. I believe we will get a new MJ album around 2014.

Any thoughts on what will be on the next album?
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A Place With No Name (Confirmed by Dr. Freeze)
Blue Gangsta (Confirmed by Dr. Freeze)

And I guess those are the only ones confirmed by producers so far.
 
StellaJackson said:
Nope, there are two registrations for the Buxer Monster. One for music, which I already posted, and another for the actual sound recording. Same setup as Hollywood Tonight.


Type of Work: Sound Recording
Registration Number / Date: SRu001011009 / 2010-10-15
Application Title: Monster.
Title: Monster.
Description: Electronic file (eService)
Copyright Claimant: Bradley Buxer. Address: 553 Summit Oaks Ct., Nashville, TN, 37221, United States.
Michael Prince. Address: 30402 Vineyard Lane, Santa Clarita, CA, 91384, United States.
The Estate of Michael J. Jackson d.b.a. c/o Hoffman, Sabban & Watenmaker, Transfer: By Will. Address: 10880 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 2200, Los Angeles, CA, 90024, United States.
Date of Creation: 2009
Authorship on Application: Michael Durham Prince; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: sound recording, production.
Bradley Buxer; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: sound recording, performance, production.
Michael J. Jackson, -2009; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: performance, production.
Rights and Permissions: Songwriters Guild of America, 209 10th Avenue South, Suite 321, Nashville, TN, 37203, United States, (615) 742-9945, sfein@songwritersguild.com
Copyright Note: C.O. correspondence.
Names: Prince, Michael Durham
Buxer, Bradley
Jackson, Michael J., -2009
Prince, Michael
The Estate of Michael J. Jackson

It wasn't registered until October of 2010 which would explain why Cascio/Porte weren't aware of it when they knocked out their own Monster in late 09/early 2010 with Jason on the vocals imo.
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good so it's recorded as well. and they made two separate registrations because it was written by Michael and Brad but produced by Michael, Brad and Michael Prince (the authors was different so it needed different registrations)

He could have similar named songs, doesn't we have 2-3 songs named "water"?
 
What artist writes two songs with the same title? If they are two completely different tracks, I don't think you give them the same title. Strange, again (to me:D).
 
So we know theres a second non Cascio Monster recording, and 1-2 non cascio water releated songs. (H20 and Water?, and Cascio Water) right?
 
Korgnex said:
The fatal "This Is It" concert series is a different story though. ;)
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Doing a concert and recording music is different. However, revisit This Is It and see details like when he sings "water, water..." or "I just can't stop loving you", or hitting the right note on "twymmf" ... or the "feeling" part for "Smooth Criminal", etc. It's not about money but about his art.
 
As many said, there were rumors from 1999:Michael created a song titled "Monster" for his new album, later titled Invincible. What others didn´t said... is that the working names for the album were "Rebirth" or "Creation 1999". He also wanted to include tracks like:"This is our time (duet)""Angel""All i give""Stop the war""On the line" (previously released on Ghosts) and maybe a duet with Bee Gees.
 
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Maybe these weren't the titles he would've chosen in the end.
Also, he wouldn't (?) have used the cascio songs anyway, so maybe he used the idea to make the other Monster, who knows.
All I know is that it's possible!

@ the 2 same titles songs. =)
 
Chamife said:
What artist writes two songs with the same title? If they are two completely different tracks, I don't think you give them the same title. Strange, again (to me:D).
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Got to be there, I'll be there, We're almost ther, Will you be there? ... hmmmm strange lol :D Well it is strange and funny actually :)
 
IvoDT said:
Maybe these weren't the titles he would've chosen in the end.
Also, he wouldn't (?) have used the cascio songs anyway, so maybe he used the idea to make the other Monster, who knows.
All I know is that it's possible!

@ the 2 same titles songs. =)
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Of course he wouldn't. Why would he? :D
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Got to be there, I'll be there, We're almost ther, Will you be there? ... hmmmm strange lol :D Well it is strange and funny actually :)
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Different titles, different writers.

If a painter paints two paintings, two pieces of art, which are different, would he give them the same name?
 
Chamife said:
Different titles, different writers.

If a painter paints two paintings, two pieces of art, which are different, would he give them the same name?
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I know, but still I find funny all those similar titles :)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET;3571550 said:
It's like sports, literature, and so on. Many do sports hoping huge financial gain (e.g. David Backham's salary 800,000 euros/month = more than 1million u.s. $/month) and are ready to dope themselves for it, rather than doing it out of love.
Writing books, or newspapers articles hoping to shock or reveal secrets (so the public buys it) rather than informing the public.

Despite Michael's huge financial gain, he wasn't singing for money, but because he loved doing music, just the way Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan love(d) kung fu or Edson Pele football or Shakespeare writing plays or Mozart writing compositions...

Today's industry's cash-in, cash-out, and who cares about the talent or brilliant ideas. Today the only idea that counts is easy money, with average people as performes or as decisions takers.
Click to expand...

Jackie Chan grew up in poverty. He had a very tough childhood. The way his master trained him can be called child abuse. He’s starved and he’s beaten up all the time. He lost his childhood to kung-fu. The social environment in Hong Kong during the 50’s and 60’s was very different than the one in America. Hong Kong was a tiny British colony with a small economy but many Chinese refugees, who escaped WWII and the subsequent Civil War in mainland China. When little Jackie looked around, he saw many children his age were mal-nourished and/or orphaned. Majority of the population never completed secondary education. Most children need to work for a living. There wasn’t any child labor law until the 70’s. So, tough life was considered way of living. Furthermore, Chinese people are taught Confucius philosophy since young age. Respect for elderly and senior people is a norm. That’s why Jackie Chan would not complain about his childhood abuse or tough upbringing. (Disclaimer: I’m not suggesting it’s wrong for Michael to complain about Joe’s abuse. Just recognize that people with different cultural and social backgrounds have different perceptions and behave differently.)</SPAN>

Out of desperation, Jackie Chan worked extremely hard. We don’t see a martial art star the caliber of Jackie Chan nowadays. No one has that burning desire to escape poverty and make a name of himself, like Jackie Chan did decades ago. Hong Kong has become one of the most dominant financial centers in Asia. Even China is becoming affluent. Jackie Chan is very talented, very passionate. But, his success has a lot to do with his own tough childhood. </SPAN>

ivy;3571561 said:
neither of those are record company paid promotion for their album.

Michael Buble is playing in Starbucks bottled drinks commercials and that's why you see his albums at their stores.

Gaga commercial is by and for Google and not her album.

Similarly the Pepsi commercial that Michael is in is seeing a heavy run on TV especially at prime time shows such as X-factor and so on.

Those are not comparable examples IMO as they are not album / record company related and it's impossible for Michael to be a spokesperson for any brand.
Click to expand...

I know the above commericals were not paid by the record companies. That's why I mentioned product tie-in is a promotional strategy. I think the Experience and Michael could have cross-sell each other. Dumping a CD inside the game box isn't cross-selling though.

Korgnex;3571605 said:
The fatal "This Is It" concert series is a different story though. ;)
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If money is the number one priority, Michael could have done Vegas shows, like Celine Dion and Elton John.
 
love is magical;3571638 said:
Jackie Chan grew up in poverty. He had a very tough childhood. The way his master trained him can be called child abuse. He&#8217;s starved and he&#8217;s beaten up all the time. He lost his childhood to kung-fu. The social environment in Hong Kong during the 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s was very different than the one in America. Hong Kong was a tiny British colony with a small economy but many Chinese refugees, who escaped WWII and the subsequent Civil War in mainland China. When little Jackie looked around, he saw many children his age were mal-nourished and/or orphaned. Majority of the population never completed secondary education. Most children need to work for a living. There wasn&#8217;t any child labor law until the 70&#8217;s. So, tough life was considered way of living. Furthermore, Chinese people are taught Confucius philosophy since young age. Respect for elderly and senior people is a norm. That&#8217;s why Jackie Chan would not complain about his childhood abuse or tough upbringing. (Disclaimer: I&#8217;m not suggesting it&#8217;s wrong for Michael to complain about Joe&#8217;s abuse. Just recognize that people with different cultural and social backgrounds have different perceptions and behave differently.)

Out of desperation, Jackie Chan worked extremely hard. We don&#8217;t see a martial art star the caliber of Jackie Chan nowadays. No one has that burning desire to escape poverty and make a name of himself, like Jackie Chan did decades ago. Hong Kong has become one of the most dominant financial centers in Asia. Even China is becoming affluent. Jackie Chan is very talented, very passionate. But, his success has a lot to do with his own tough childhood.
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We could say the same for Michael. That's why I was referring to Jackie Chan. You immediately see when someone has innate talent.
 
"Much Too Soon" = "Learned My Lesson" (registered with US Copyright Office in January 1985)

one and the same song?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Doing a concert and recording music is different. However, revisit This Is It and see details like when he sings "water, water..." or "I just can't stop loving you", or hitting the right note on "twymmf" ... or the "feeling" part for "Smooth Criminal", etc. It's not about money but about his art.
Click to expand...
How do we know that by Michael saying "Water, Water" he was just not asking for water since a few seconds later he got some water.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
How do we know that by Michael saying "Water, Water" he was just not asking for water since a few seconds later he got some water.
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I didn't say he sang the song water! I said he just sang, because he liked singing. No matter what he was saying: water, or salt and pepper, or any other word.
 
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