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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Jesta, fan committee won't work. Fans never see things eye-to-eye. There are fans who want more and more. Also, some fans do enjoy the Cascio tracks and find them to be great songs. Remember there are fans who think Michael had run-of-the-mill mediocre pop songs.


We have to accept the genius is gone. Posthumous release is not about quality, but profitability.
 
love is magical said:
Jesta, fan committee won't work. Fans never see things eye-to-eye. There are fans who want more and more. Also, some fans do enjoy the Cascio tracks and find them to be great songs. Remember there are fans who think Michael had run-of-the-mill mediocre pop songs.


We have to accept the genius is gone. Posthumous release is not about quality, but profitability.
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You are right, but at least a fan committee can add some insight as to what we want. Conflicting opinions can be useful to the Estate, it allows them to evaluate if they should go forward with projects etc. I'm saying that they have the final word, just a say, a voice. What WE'RE meant to have.
 
Jesta said:
Discussion #4: Love, Arky, Pentum, Bumper, Ivy - How were your respective holidays? :D
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My holidays were low-key, but nice. 2011 was a good year for me.

I spent today cleaning up my apartment. Too bad I have to go back to work tomorrow. Wish the holiday is longer.
 
love is magical said:
My holidays were low-key, but nice. 2011 was a good year for me.

I spent today cleaning up my apartment. Too bad I have to go back to work tomorrow. Wish the holiday is longer.
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Snap, I have to return to college tomorrow! But this term I'm armed with a netbook that I've equipped with This Is It and the All In Your Name and Behind the Mask music videos... Just so if anyone asks me where in that video I am, I can show them directly :p Plus I love the song. My holidays were quiet, but I got so much stuff!! I got Michael Jackson: The Experience 3D and I LOVE it!! And I got some pretty rare things for my collection: the Dangerous Tour Souvenir Single pack and the Smooth Criminal This Is It ticket!
 
Jesta said:
I wish the Estate had a fan committee so that nothing like the Cascio tracks can EVER happen again. I think anyone can agree that these songs - regardless of authenticity - should NEVER have been considered for release. I'm just reiterating what we're all thinking, but these are poorly written, poorly sung songs! The worst song in terms of vocals on the "Michael" album aside from these tracks is Hollywood, and even with the auto-tune and the altered bridge, it's still FAR better vocally than these tracks! A fan committee could've solved this issue before it started. And to think, it's been over a year and these tracks still remain. I've made great friendships from this discussion, and this place helped me through school. But I honestly hoped that these tracks would be hidden away as the shame of the "MJ" discography. Instead they're trying to push these down our throats as opposed to Hollywood and Behind the Mask, easily two of the best tracks on the album!

But there is a silver lining. I still enjoy these tracks in a way. They were meant to be these super-serious tracks that Michael was proud of, but all I see is a pale attempt at an MJ song. They're hilariously bad! I've become so angry at these tracks to the point where it's laughable. The very fact that they thought that it was a good idea to release this AFTER concerns were raised is laughable! Listening to these tracks makes me laugh because of all these reasons. They're so bad, they're hilarious. Don't get me wrong, it's tragic that any of this has happened, because of the permanent black mark on Michael's otherwise flawless official catalogue, but it's hard not to laugh over the fact that they seriously thought releasing these was a good idea!!!

It's like when you listen to a Jason Malachi song and you think "Aww, he's trying to imitate MJ!!! He's failing, but awww!" I'm still passionate about the topic, don't get me wrong. It's just gone on so far to the point where the songs feel more like a novelty. A fan project. Something I would do if I could sound like MJ! Of course it'd never be branded as MJ, and the fact that these are just adds to the tragedy.
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Regardless if you think they're all crap and regardless MJ is singing or not, Keep Your Head Up is by all means NOT a bad song and has VERY good vocals. So really, I laugh at posts like these =P
 
IvoDT said:
Regardless if you think they're all crap and regardless MJ is singing or not, Keep Your Head Up is by all means NOT a bad song and has VERY good vocals. So really, I laugh at posts like these =P
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... Eh. I elicited some kind of reaction. I'm a lot like Andy Kaufman, I say things to get the REAL reactions from people as opposed to what I want them to say. Besides, while Keep Your Head Up has "Cascio-level above average" vocals, the same can't be said for the lyrics*






























*Own opinion.
 
IvoDT said:
Regardless if you think they're all crap and regardless MJ is singing or not, Keep Your Head Up is by all means NOT a bad song and has VERY good vocals. So really, I laugh at posts like these =P
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So unnecessary to say you laugh at other people's opinion. :nono:

I actually think the vocal in some parts of KYHU is cringe-worthy. Please respect my opinion.
 
Jesta said:
You are right, but at least a fan committee can add some insight as to what we want. Conflicting opinions can be useful to the Estate, it allows them to evaluate if they should go forward with projects etc. I'm saying that they have the final word, just a say, a voice. What WE'RE meant to have.
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Yeah, I really think that the Estate could easily take in some input from the fanbase. It is not that difficult to come up with some ideas for future projects and to then run a few basic surveys to see what fans would be interested in. If they do not want to go that far, honestly, why not just have a few people who keep an eye on the major fan forums every now and then to see what the buzz is. I have been on MJ boards for several years now and despite the fact that I agree with you love is magical that the fanbase is generally quite fragmented, I really think that if there is one thing that can get all of us excited and on the same page it is something new and authentic from MJ. When Michael was still with us, I saw it every time he would make an appearance somewhere and pictures/video would be posted. People just buried their arguments and differences of opinion and just enjoyed the new material together. The same thing happened and still happens when a previously unheard (authentic/not questionable) song leaks or is released. Also, although I agree with you that fans want so many different things from future projects, I think you can still clearly decipher what the majority of fans would be interested in. Take the talk about a Bad Tour 88/89 concert release for instance. This is something fans have been discussing and starting petitions about for years.

With regards to the goals of the Estate: even if profit is your main concern, why would the Estate not be interested in trying to maximize it by also appeasing the loyal fanbase? I really think we are a group that should not be ignored. We are the ones who are passionate about Michael Jackson projects and will spread the word to our friends and family both when we like and when we dislike something. We are also the ones that will still be buying Michael Jackson products years from now, when the mainstream interest in MJ might have died down. Disregarding the loyal fanbase just does not seem like a very smart strategy to me, even when your only goal is to make as much money as possible.
 
If I laugh at people's opinions that's my own choice, and in the end, don't you guys do the same to people believing and loving the Cascio tracks? No need to answer, I know you do. =)

I'm merely saying some of these songs don't sound like the crap people are saying all the time. And seriously, these songs are still 100 times better than the crap that's in the Top 40 nowadays, and they weren't MJ's best. You shouldn't be ashamed to say you like one or two of the songs. Because fake or not fake, the song itself is what I'm commenting about. And while the lyrics of most of the songs aren't 100% accurate or well, good. It's also, still better than most of the lyrics in the top 40, haha. The worst pop songs is not something I would call these.

EDIT: And sorry to point it out one more time,
I know we all love MJ, but he wasn't a god among people. Not ALL of his songs are perfect and some are even "mediocre" themselves. So I am not shocked with the cascio songs at all.

*Own opinion* ;)
 
SoCav said:
Yeah, I really think that the Estate could easily take in some input from the fanbase. It is not that difficult to come up with some ideas for future projects and to then run a few basic surveys to see what fans would be interested in. If they do not want to go that far, honestly, why not just have a few people who keep an eye on the major fan forums every now and then to see what the buzz is. I have been on MJ boards for several years now and despite the fact that I agree with you love is magical that the fanbase is generally quite fragmented, I really think that if there is one thing that can get all of us excited and on the same page it is something new and authentic from MJ. When Michael was still with us, I saw it every time he would make an appearance somewhere and pictures/video would be posted. People just buried their arguments and differences of opinion and just enjoyed the new material together. The same thing happened and still happens when a previously unheard (authentic/not questionable) song leaks or is released. Also, although I agree with you that fans want so many different things from future projects, I think you can still clearly decipher what the majority of fans would be interested in. Take the talk about a Bad Tour 88/89 concert release for instance. This is something fans have been discussing and starting petitions about for years.

With regards to the goals of the Estate: even if profit is your main concern, why would the Estate not be interested in trying to maximize it by also appeasing the loyal fanbase? I really think we are a group that should not be ignored. We are the ones who are passionate about Michael Jackson projects and will spread the word to our friends and family both when we like and when we dislike something. We are also the ones that will still be buying Michael Jackson products years from now, when the mainstream interest in MJ might have died down. Disregarding the loyal fanbase just does not seem like a very smart strategy to me, even when your only goal is to make as much money as possible.
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Very true. Very true. I agree with you. In order to unite and energize the fan base, we need a great project like Bad 88/89 Tour DVD/Blu-ray.

It's just that I don't understand why the projects that Sony/the Estate put out keep on alienating fans.
 
IvoDT said:
If I laugh at people's opinions that's my own choice, and in the end, don't you guys do the same to people believing and loving the Cascio tracks? No need to answer, I know you do. =)

I'm merely saying some of these songs don't sound like the crap people are saying all the time. And seriously, these songs are still 100 times better than the crap that's in the Top 40 nowadays, and they weren't MJ's best. You shouldn't be ashamed to say you like one or two of the songs. Because fake or not fake, the song itself is what I'm commenting about. And while the lyrics of most of the songs aren't 100% accurate or well, good. It's also, still better than most of the lyrics in the top 40, haha. The worst pop songs is not something I would call these.

EDIT: And sorry to point it out one more time,
I know we all love MJ, but he wasn't a god among people. Not ALL of his songs are perfect and some are even "mediocre" themselves. So I am not shocked with the cascio songs at all.

*Own opinion* ;)
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Haha :D
 
IvoDT said:
If I laugh at people's opinions that's my own choice, and in the end, don't you guys do the same to people believing and loving the Cascio tracks? No need to answer, I know you do. =)

I'm merely saying some of these songs don't sound like the crap people are saying all the time. And seriously, these songs are still 100 times better than the crap that's in the Top 40 nowadays, and they weren't MJ's best. Yuu shouldn't be ashamed to say you like one or two of the songs. Because fake or not fake, the song itself is what I'm commenting about. And while the lyrics of most of the songs aren't 100% accurate or well, good. It's also, still better than most of the lyrics in the top 40, haha. The worst pop songs is not something I would call these.

*Own opinion* ;)
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Actually, I never laugh at people's opinions. The only time I laugh at people's posts is when Bumpy being silly. So, I feel I need to answer your question.

Has anyone said people should be ashamed of themselves if they enjoy the Cascio tracks? I think we have very nice vibe now. Both believers and doubters are quite comfortable in expressing their opinions.

Yes, you are entitled to think Jesta's post is laughable. I'm not saying you can't have your own opinion. But, to say it out loud is condeseening to him, which why I found it unnecessary.
 
love is magical said:
Actually, I never laugh at people's opinions. The only time I laugh at people's posts is when Bumpy being silly. So, I feel I need to answer your question.

Has anyone said people should be ashamed of themselves if they enjoy the Cascio tracks? I think we have very nice vibe now. Both believers and doubters are quite comfortable in expressing their opinions.

Yes, you are entitled to think Jesta's post is laughable. I'm not saying you can't have your own opinion. But, to say it out loud is condeseening to him, which why I found it unnecessary.
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Utter bullshit :D
 
love is magical said:
Very true. Very true. I agree with you. In order to unite and energize the fan base, we need a great project like Bad 88/89 Tour DVD/Blu-ray.

It's just that I don't understand why the projects that Sony/the Estate put out keep on alienating fans.
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I know... I do really believe that they can restore a lot of goodwill by making the next project a memorable, satisfactory release, don't you think? It should be relatively easy to do with a Bad Tour 88/89 DVD/Blu-ray: we know the footage is there and all that we want to see is Michael live and uncut.

Still, the stories/rumours about the Cascio tracks being included in future projects and the way they have dealt with this whole controversy thus far leave me very sceptical about future releases and hesitant to get too enthusiastic about anything new, even something that would seem as simple as a Bad Tour concert release (I'm telling you, we might get Yokohama. :lol: )
 
SoCav said:
I know... I do really believe that they can restore a lot of goodwill by making the next project a memorable, satisfactory release, don't you think? It should be relatively easy to do with a Bad Tour 88/89 DVD/Blu-ray: we know the footage is there and all that we want to see is Michael live and uncut.

Still, the stories/rumours about the Cascio tracks being included in future projects and the way they have dealt with this whole controversy thus far leave me very sceptical about future releases and hesitant to get too enthusiastic about anything new, even something that would seem as simple as a Bad Tour concert release (I'm telling you, we might get Yokohama. :lol: )
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Lol... Yokohama is still better than nothing. There is rumor that the tour DVD is not in the work. Bad 25 will just be re-release with a couple more remixes.

I'm telling you i'll pull my hair out if Bad 25 is similar to Thriller 25. I have bought the same song enough times.
 
I've lost the excitement for new MJ stuff :( I was super excited for Immortal (which was amazing!), but of course, even then Monster rap was still included...I know, I know...at least they didn't use the vocals....But STILL....every good thing always has to have just a little stain on it...Just a little twist of the knife in our and MJ's backs...
 
Estate is already listening to the fanbase. They have an online team and they invite multiple fan group leaders to multiple events to get feedback from them. Cascio songs were removed from Cirque after such meeting.

However also do not forget that Estate most probably can't and won't do anything and everything that the fans say because there's multiple parties involved.

For example assume the fans don't want the songs, Estate is okay with it but Sony is wanting the songs because they paid $250M for the albums. What then?
 
If they include any more of these songs on a future release then the consequences will be devastating.
 
Arklove said:
I've lost the excitement for new MJ stuff :( I was super excited for Immortal (which was amazing!), but of course, even then Monster rap was still included...I know, I know...at least they didn't use the vocals....But STILL....every good thing always has to have just a little stain on it...Just a little twist of the knife in our and MJ's backs...
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I'm excited about the show. Can't wait to see it in April.

But, to be honest, the album doesn't blow me away. I bought it and enjoy it. But, as expected, I haven't reach out to it again after my first listen.



ivy said:
Estate is already listening to the fanbase. They have an online team and they invite multiple fan group leaders to multiple events to get feedback from them. Cascio songs were removed from Cirque after such meeting.

However also do not forget that Estate most probably can't and won't do anything and everything that the fans say because there's multiple parties involved.

For example assume the fans don't want the songs, Estate is okay with it but Sony is wanting the songs because they paid $250M for the albums. What then?
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$250M for 10 projects, not 10 albums.

It seems Michael failed to make the Top 20 global best sellers list. I'm wondering what Sony thinks about the performance.
 
Yes that's right, ten projects. And we've already had 4: This Is It soundtrack (retrofitted in to contract), Vision, Michael, Immortal soundtrack. The remaining projects appear to be Bad 25 plus probably 2 more actual albums. I would expect they will do something for the 35th anniversary of Off The Wall in 2014 and I bet there will be a bog standard greatest hits at some point too. God knows how they will even break even on that deal, let alone make a profit considering what a mess they've made so far.
 
love is magical said:
I'm excited about the show. Can't wait to see it in April.

But, to be honest, the album doesn't blow me away. I bought it and enjoy it. But, as expected, I haven't reach out to it again after my first listen.
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yeah, same with me...I bought the album, but I knew that it was basically just another greatest hits thing...The immortal megamix is pretty good...but still pretty lacklustre...

I accept these things as part of posthumous releases....questionable vocals, however....FAIL...

NO ONE should have to accept that...
 
StellaJackson said:
Yes that's right, ten projects. And we've already had 4: This Is It soundtrack (retrofitted in to contract), Vision, Michael, Immortal soundtrack. The remaining projects appear to be Bad 25 plus probably 2 more actual albums. I would expect they will do something for the 35th anniversary of Off The Wall in 2014 and I bet there will be a bog standard greatest hits at some point too. God knows how they will even break even on that deal, let alone make a profit considering what a mess they've made so far.
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Out of the four projects, only TII can be called a hit. And, if they are going to release another GH, don't count me a customer. I'm tired of GH.

Like Arky, I have no expectation and lose excitement about future release. :(
 
love is magical said:
Out of the four projects, only TII can be called a hit. And, if they are going to release another GH, don't count me a customer. I'm tired of GH.

Like Arky, I have no expectation and lose excitement about future release. :(
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Agreed. The damage they've done with the Cascio tracks is catastrophic. In a funny way I almost hope songs like Water and Fall In Love make it to the next album because at least then a lot more people would understand the reality of the situation.
 
My wish list: Bad, Dangerous and History tours on Blu-ray. If Sony thinks it's not commercially viable, then could they just release the Blu-ray as special collector edition. I'm willing to pay an obscene amount of money for them. :lol:
 
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