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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Jesta said:
Bumper, you surrendered the right to a gift when you left!!! However, if you want I can send you via email a little something I made for my Facebook friends that'll give you a laugh! Send me your email via PM and I'll send it to you :)
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Nevermind, don't bother. I thought you had been making it before I left. It's cool ;) Anyway I was just kidding :)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Nevermind, don't bother. I thought you had been making it before I left. It's cool ;) Anyway I was just kidding :)
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I know you were, and truth be told what I made was a successor as to what I was going to make you anyway. You just left before I could think of something awesome to make, and now that I have, it's still pretty much your present because it was based on what I wanted to make you. So can I PLEASE send it to you??? It'll be worth it! ;)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Pentum, I really must disagree. The Michael parts really does not sound a bit like Michael. He sounds more like the actor who starred as Michael in the series The Jacksons An American Dream than like Michael.

[youtube]JJkb0QydQIE[/youtube]
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Hmm, I do think he sounds a bit like Michael in this clip, although I do think Jean Walker can do much better than in this video. But still, he does some words quite okay in this clip. I think the word "world" (especially towards the end of the word) on .47, and "children" at .51 still sound more like Michael than Jason Malachi can ever get. The "let's start giving" at .56 is pretty decent as well I think.

I personally think the Butterflies clip you posted recently is a better example of Jean Walker's skills, Pentum.
http://youtu.be/Y36JF5zJSS4?t=27s

0.28-0.53 for instance.
 
If you keep replaying MJ in studio doing WATW (rehearsal), then play the Jean Walker clip, you would really hear the similarity (as he sounds more like MJ rehearsing the song).
 
Pentum said:
If you keep replaying MJ in studio doing WATW (rehearsal), then play the Jean Walker clip, you would really hear the similarity (as he sounds more like MJ rehearsing the song).
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Yes but the uniqueness of Michael's voice is that when he sings you don't hear him making extra efforts to sound the way he sounds, while the singer on the Cascio tracks gives impression that he struggles to reach some notes or some grit, the same way Jean Walker struggels to reach Michael's frequency of falsetto or grit.

But it is true that Jean Walker in some parts (not in this video you posted though) sounds extremely close to Michael.

Now does it make him the best soundalike or imitator, I really don't know, because on many occasions he fails to hit the right note. As far as singing skills are concerned, in general, I'd give more credit to Jason.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Yes but the uniqueness of Michael's voice is that when he sings you don't hear him making extra efforts to sound the way he sounds, while the singer on the Cascio tracks gives impression that he struggles to reach some notes or some grit, the same way Jean Walker struggels to reach Michael's frequency of falsetto or grit.

But it is true that Jean Walker in some parts (not in this video you posted though) sounds extremely close to Michael.

Now does it make him the best soundalike or imitator, I really don't know, because on many occasions he fails to hit the right note. As far as singing skills are concerned, in general, I'd give more credit to Jason.
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I really can't hear MJ when I listen to Jason, at all. I think it might be because I know his voice so damn well (unfortunately). IMO Jean is also the only sound alike that can pull of MJ's grit in some parts. If you watch all his videos, you'll see (and there are MANY). I'm sure SoCav knows what I'm talking about.

But Jason, meh. I'd say he sounds most like MJ in Let Me Go (where he sounds a bit like Jean). "fake" softness in the voice, trying to reach MJ's pitched voice, etc.
 
TheSilentOne said:
I enjoy this version more than the original. Can't believe I'm saying it, because it's terrible, but I can't help it. They obviously mean what they sing and put their hearts in it :p
The "no matter what" part is the best :D
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Looool I've just listened to it. It was terrible! Loool. Faithful to the original masterpiece.
 
Pentum said:
I really can't hear MJ when I listen to Jason, at all. I think it might be because I know his voice so damn well (unfortunately). IMO Jean is also the only sound alike that can pull of MJ's grit in some parts. If you watch all his videos, you'll see (and there are MANY). I'm sure SoCav knows what I'm talking about.

But Jason, meh. I'd say he sounds most like MJ in Let Me Go (where he sounds a bit like Jean). "fake" softness in the voice, trying to reach MJ's pitched voice, etc.
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I was referring to his general abilities to sing, not necessarily when he imitates Michael, but in general he sounds more professional than Jean Walker. Jean Walker really needs some singing lessons in order to fully take advantage of his abilities. It would be a pity if he doesn't seriously train his voice.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I love that interview, I seen only 5 minutes of it before but never the whole thing.
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I watched and saved it. Always nice to hear something new (little anekdote of Michael going to Teddy's town, booking in a hotel, papparazzi finding out and then Teddy letting him stay in a house he bought for his mother, and the elderly people there let Michael be himself..:). And then Michael giving these 2 fans all kinds of gifts if they promise to keep silent).

So, anyone else see the interview? Teddy talks about 'The Cascio's' all the time. Why do that if he only worked with Eddie?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Yes but the uniqueness of Michael's voice is that when he sings you don't hear him making extra efforts to sound the way he sounds, while the singer on the Cascio tracks gives impression that he struggles to reach some notes or some grit, the same way Jean Walker struggels to reach Michael's frequency of falsetto or grit.
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Oh, that's definitely true. Outside of the moments where he is able to sound pretty similar to Mike (which unlike in that Butterflies clip are generally relatively short - sometimes just a sentence or a word or even just a part of a word), you can also clearly here that he is putting on a voice.

Pentum said:
I really can't hear MJ when I listen to Jason, at all. I think it might be because I know his voice so damn well (unfortunately). IMO Jean is also the only sound alike that can pull of MJ's grit in some parts. If you watch all his videos, you'll see (and there are MANY). I'm sure SoCav knows what I'm talking about.

But Jason, meh. I'd say he sounds most like MJ in Let Me Go (where he sounds a bit like Jean). "fake" softness in the voice, trying to reach MJ's pitched voice, etc.
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It's the same for me and I know exactly what you mean with that 'fake softness'. It's hella annoying. :lol: For instance, I find the way the guy (the Jason dude) sings the word "way" here really irritating:
http://youtu.be/qtMVKJS3VPM?t=8m56s

:lol:

However, I disagree with you when it comes to Jean Walker being able to copy MJ's gritty style. Do you maybe have a clip where you feel he is copying it well? I have not really heard a moment where he sings in that style that I found convincing. In those parts, it really sounds like he is putting on a voice and it sounds like his vocal chords are straining badly (they probably are!). That's why I do not really find him convincing on any of the uptempo tracks. I also do not find his falsetto that good. To me he sounds most like MJ when he sticks to the slightly more laid back, lower pitched songs. One thing he definitely pulls off much better than Jason is that type of emotional emphasis that MJ puts on some words (you know, where it almost kinda sounds like he is crying). I think Jean does a pretty good job at that, whereas when Jason tries to do that he generally blurts out those whiny yelps.

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I was referring to his general abilities to sing, not necessarily when he imitates Michael, but in general he sounds more professional than Jean Walker. Jean Walker really needs some singing lessons in order to fully take advantage of his abilities. It would be a pity if he doesn't seriously train his voice.
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I also think that Jason Malachi is the more professional singer overall. Makes sense as well, given that Jean Walker only recently made the change from singing in his taxi cab to giving some performances, whereas Jason has been in the game for over ten years now? Does anyone know if Jean is getting singing lessons at all?

I guess we should not forget however that we mostly have studio recordings of Jason Malachi but do not really know what Jean Walker can do in a studio environment. Remember that Jason is not exactly brilliant during his live performances either (prone to sing off-key as well!).
 
Chamife said:
I watched and saved it. Always nice to hear something new (little anekdote of Michael going to Teddy's town, booking in a hotel, papparazzi finding out and then Teddy letting him stay in a house he bought for his mother, and the elderly people there let Michael be himself..:). And then Michael giving these 2 fans all kinds of gifts if they promise to keep silent).

So, anyone else see the interview? Teddy talks about 'The Cascio's' all the time. Why do that if he only worked with Eddie?
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Because Teddy is just as clueless as we the doubters are :D We are unable to differentiate them. :D
 
Chamife said:
So, anyone else see the interview? Teddy talks about 'The Cascio's' all the time. Why do that if he only worked with Eddie?
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I don't think he worked with Eddie. He was given the songs to work on them. I don't think Eddie or Porte was there when they (meaning Teddy) were working on the songs. He might have met the whole family together after the fact.
 
ivy said:
I don't think he worked with Eddie. He was given the songs to work on them. I don't think Eddie or Porte was there when they (meaning Teddy) were working on the songs. He might have met the whole family together after the fact.
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For example he says: "The Cascio's, they have a few more songs" or "I should be entitled to publishing. I haven't come to that point yet. The Cascio's and I, we have a meeting coming up. It may happen (he's talking about money, if I'm correct).If it doesn't, it doesn't matter, cause I came on this for my friend".

Could be he's talking about the whole family, but I don't get impression.
 
Comparing Jason and Jean's singing skills is a bit unfair. Jason has already released 2 albums and had been singing since he was a little kid.
I don't know when Jean started singing, but he never did anything professional, he just sang home and in the taxt, etc.

About the Jean grit parts where I really think he manages to get closer to MJ than anyone, I just watched through some and he's not THAT close to Mike anymore, because I now know his voice. The first time I heard Jean and explored his videos, I was almost shocked!

Here's two vids:
[youtube]VeUiBIRePnE[/youtube] (TDCAU at the end is good)
[youtube]Q6hIvsdfCF8[/youtube] We've had enough at the end
[youtube]zMeoJ8bLYL4[/youtube]



What I find odd is that Jean has the ability to sound like MJ as a kid, as young adult and as the older MJ.

Listen to this, it's really amazing when he does MJ kid. Also, skip to 2:30 for Baby Be Mine part which sounds so much like Mike:
[youtube]XPDZdd1RA0g[/youtube]
 
Chamife said:
I watched and saved it. Always nice to hear something new (little anekdote of Michael going to Teddy's town, booking in a hotel, papparazzi finding out and then Teddy letting him stay in a house he bought for his mother, and the elderly people there let Michael be himself..:). And then Michael giving these 2 fans all kinds of gifts if they promise to keep silent).

So, anyone else see the interview? Teddy talks about 'The Cascio's' all the time. Why do that if he only worked with Eddie?
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Same here I downloaded it.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Teddy's credibility :D

[youtube]0oF87b4fcnE[/youtube]
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Teddy just doesn't want to accept that MJ passed away like many of us but it does not have anything to do with his credibility and many people think that he might have been placed in a witness protection program I had my thoughts but that's something else.

Update: Also remember that some people said that Paris Jackson said that it wasn't MJ singing on the Cascio songs?

Now on her new movie she used Breaking News as the promo song I feel that she was forced to say that by the Jackson family since they don't get $$$ from the estate projects only Prince, Paris, and Blanket will someday have control and not them so they try to bring it down (But that is my opinion not a fact)
 
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Pentum said:
Also, skip to 2:30 for Baby Be Mine part which sounds so much like Mike:
[youtube]XPDZdd1RA0g[/youtube]
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Loool, come on Pentum, when he sings Baby Be Mine there's no single right note hahahahah!
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Teddy just doesn't want to accept that MJ passed away like many of us but it does not have anything to do with his credibility and many people think that he might have been placed in a witness protection program I had my thoughts but that's something else.
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Umm, this is not the only time where his credibility is questioned.

He apologized for the voice sounding a bit off. But the truth of the matter is that the voice on all the remaining songs are also off, yet he hadn't touched them.

What is more, back in time he used to hang around with Mike. He should know he's dead. And even if he doesn't accept his death, fine, but then he should'nt put ambiguity in his sentences like "from what I know" or "I can't tell more", which mean according to his words he obviously does know more than he can tell. So either he tells it or he keeps quiet, but not like this -playing the guy who knows things but can't reveal them.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Umm, this is not the only time where his credibility is questioned.

He apologized for the voice sounding a bit off. But the truth of the matter is that the voice on all the remaining songs are also off, yet he hadn't touched them.

What is more, back in time he used to hang around with Mike. He should know he's dead. And even if he doesn't accept his death, fine, but then he should'nt put ambiguity in his sentences like "from what I know" or "I can't tell more", which mean according to his words he obviously does know more than he can tell. So either he tells it or he keeps quite, but not like this -playing the guy who knows things but can't reveal them.
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Okay I know what you mean but for the remaining Cascio songs they are not complete so we should not judge them until they're finalized right now the only unreleased Cascio song I think is almost complete is Burn 2 Nite (Burn Tonight) compared to the others.

And like Teddy said he doesn't want people to think he's crazy but he just wants to let people know what he thinks without sounding insane.

There are still people who believe that Elvis and 2 Pac are alive so why only judge Teddy, he was friends with Michael for 20+ years it's not easy to loose a friend.

And I know I said I wasn't gonna talk about unreleased songs but it's just in my opinion.
 
re: Jean Walker

Can you feel it also sounded close to Michael's voice. If he wants to have success, he's really got to learn to hit the right notes. Not sure if you can learn that. He's very good in imitating Michael's voice, but a good singer? MMMMMmmmmmm.......
 
Pentum said:
Comparing Jason and Jean's singing skills is a bit unfair. Jason has already released 2 albums and had been singing since he was a little kid.
I don't know when Jean started singing, but he never did anything professional, he just sang home and in the taxt, etc.

About the Jean grit parts where I really think he manages to get closer to MJ than anyone, I just watched through some and he's not THAT close to Mike anymore, because I now know his voice. The first time I heard Jean and explored his videos, I was almost shocked!

Here's two vids:
[youtube]VeUiBIRePnE[/youtube] (TDCAU at the end is good)
[youtube]Q6hIvsdfCF8[/youtube] We've had enough at the end
[youtube]zMeoJ8bLYL4[/youtube]



What I find odd is that Jean has the ability to sound like MJ as a kid, as young adult and as the older MJ.

Listen to this, it's really amazing when he does MJ kid. Also, skip to 2:30 for Baby Be Mine part which sounds so much like Mike:
[youtube]XPDZdd1RA0g[/youtube]
Click to expand...
Thanks for the videos. With the gritty parts of TDCAU and TWYMMF I think he is doing a decent job, but it still does not sound that close to MJ to me. In TDCAU for instance, his voice again sounds very strained and the only parts that sound pretty good to me are the "my life" and "know me." Those are also the only words he does not really deliver with grit. I had not come across the We've Had Enough acapella yet! I think he does a really nice job on most of that one. But I do not think he is singing it with much grit (nor is MJ in the original song).

Yeah, his imitation of MJ's child voice is really quite remarkable (that "looking for" at .25-.28 especially. Wow!)
 
I wish the Estate had a fan committee so that nothing like the Cascio tracks can EVER happen again. I think anyone can agree that these songs - regardless of authenticity - should NEVER have been considered for release. I'm just reiterating what we're all thinking, but these are poorly written, poorly sung songs! The worst song in terms of vocals on the "Michael" album aside from these tracks is Hollywood, and even with the auto-tune and the altered bridge, it's still FAR better vocally than these tracks! A fan committee could've solved this issue before it started. And to think, it's been over a year and these tracks still remain. I've made great friendships from this discussion, and this place helped me through school. But I honestly hoped that these tracks would be hidden away as the shame of the "MJ" discography. Instead they're trying to push these down our throats as opposed to Hollywood and Behind the Mask, easily two of the best tracks on the album!

But there is a silver lining. I still enjoy these tracks in a way. They were meant to be these super-serious tracks that Michael was proud of, but all I see is a pale attempt at an MJ song. They're hilariously bad! I've become so angry at these tracks to the point where it's laughable. The very fact that they thought that it was a good idea to release this AFTER concerns were raised is laughable! Listening to these tracks makes me laugh because of all these reasons. They're so bad, they're hilarious. Don't get me wrong, it's tragic that any of this has happened, because of the permanent black mark on Michael's otherwise flawless official catalogue, but it's hard not to laugh over the fact that they seriously thought releasing these was a good idea!!!

It's like when you listen to a Jason Malachi song and you think "Aww, he's trying to imitate MJ!!! He's failing, but awww!" I'm still passionate about the topic, don't get me wrong. It's just gone on so far to the point where the songs feel more like a novelty. A fan project. Something I would do if I could sound like MJ! Of course it'd never be branded as MJ, and the fact that these are just adds to the tragedy.
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
Okay I know what you mean but for the remaining Cascio songs they are not complete so we should not judge them until they're finalized right now the only unreleased Cascio song I think is almost complete is Burn 2 Nite (Burn Tonight) compared to the others.

And like Teddy said he doesn't want people to think he's crazy but he just wants to let people know what he thinks without sounding insane.

There are still people who believe that Elvis and 2 Pac are alive so why only judge Teddy, he was friends with Michael for 20+ years it's not easy to loose a friend.

And I know I said I wasn't gonna talk about unreleased songs but it's just in my opinion.
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If any fan who openly said he believes MJ is still alive, people would jump to him and call him a crazy hoax theorist. But, if Teddy Riley did the same thing, he's excused??? Sorry, it doesn't fly by me. Judging people with double standard is as bad as judging people without understanding.

It's not easy for anyone to lose a son, a brother, an uncle and a father. But, that can't be used as an excuse. In additional to that "Michael is not dead" talk, Teddy called female fans bithches and whores. I'm sorry. I have lost a lot of respect for Teddy.

I don't know why you keep claiming you don't want to talk about the leaked tracks, while being as curious and interested as the rest of us. This is the thread to talk about the Cascio tracks. No one is a moral police here.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Loool, come on Pentum, when he sings Baby Be Mine there's no single right note hahahahah!
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I forgot to add that you have to look past the singing skills, man. I'm talking about the voice itself.

Hold on...

The quality is shit compared to the real BBM song, I know.

http://soundcloud.com/pentummj/bbm-jwvsmj

Imagine in a few years (Jean is currently taking singing lessons and stuff, I've heard), with proper microphone, it will be dangerous...
 
Jesta said:
I wish the Estate had a fan committee so that nothing like the Cascio tracks can EVER happen again. I think anyone can agree that these songs - regardless of authenticity - should NEVER have been considered for release. I'm just reiterating what we're all thinking, but these are poorly written, poorly sung songs! The worst song in terms of vocals on the "Michael" album aside from these tracks is Hollywood, and even with the auto-tune and the altered bridge, it's still FAR better vocally than these tracks! A fan committee could've solved this issue before it started. And to think, it's been over a year and these tracks still remain. I've made great friendships from this discussion, and this place helped me through school. But I honestly hoped that these tracks would be hidden away as the shame of the "MJ" discography. Instead they're trying to push these down our throats as opposed to Hollywood and Behind the Mask, easily two of the best tracks on the album!

But there is a silver lining. I still enjoy these tracks in a way. They were meant to be these super-serious tracks that Michael was proud of, but all I see is a pale attempt at an MJ song. They're hilariously bad! I've become so angry at these tracks to the point where it's laughable. The very fact that they thought that it was a good idea to release this AFTER concerns were raised is laughable! Listening to these tracks makes me laugh because of all these reasons. They're so bad, they're hilarious. Don't get me wrong, it's tragic that any of this has happened, because of the permanent black mark on Michael's otherwise flawless official catalogue, but it's hard not to laugh over the fact that they seriously thought releasing these was a good idea!!!
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That statement from the Estate still bugs me to this day...It was simply just a 'shut the fuck up' type of thing...A formality, really..a way to placate us....To finish it up, they end it with a nice, '...it'll be the fans who make the final judgment'...What a slap in the face!

What a useless statement and a complete waste of time...Besides the fact that I don't hear Michael on those tracks, despite this joke of a statement to reassure us that that vocals really are him (LOL), THAT is why I don't trust it...

Funnily enough, that statement is exactly what some fans needed to settle their doubts about the tracks....:(
 
LOL, I love how we have three different discussion on one page in this thread :D

And 13 users in this thread? That's the highest number I've seen in a while.
 
Discussion #4: Love, Arky, Pentum, Bumper, Ivy - How were your respective holidays? :D
 
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