Michael - The Great Album Debate

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Too risky. I don't think they all were aware.

I do. I think Sony - in the person of Branca or Mottola or whoever - is deliberately trying to screw Michael's legacy.

There's no way it's a coincidence that those songs feature the lyrics 'Fake fake Breaking News' and 'They're gunning for the money so they fake it' and 'why did you fake it?' by accident.

Unless there is someone who is deliberately setting Sony up for a big fall.

These songs haven't been released by accident.

 

[Tom]

New video, but I kind of copied Morphios so thank you for the idea! I changed the tempo on Let Me Go to match Monster and used better quality:


[youtube]fymR9DMdtqE[/youtube]

The "Whyyyy" at 37 seconds sounds so similar to the "Monsterrrr" backing vocals.

Thanks for your efforts Pentum.

This is clearly what I was referring to in my long posts. Not a single Michael's song put parallelly to Monster matches the vocals. Yet they match Jason's vocals on "Let me let go"!

And, even if believers still believe it is Michael on those tracks, I don't understand how doesn't it bother them to have "Michael's" vocals that actually sound closer to Jason's vocals than Michael's.

On top of that, I stated earlier, as Jason's vocals and Cascio vocals are so close, it means that Jason could have sung those songs and nobody would even noticed it, since the vocals are exactly the same between Monster and Let me let go. How is it possible not to be bothered by that fact notwithstanding what audiologists, Teddy or anyone has to say? Doesn't it hurt the ears?




p.s. By the way, I might be wrong here, but I don't remember when Michael ever insulted anyone in his songs. Michael did criticize papparazis, but I don't remember that he ever insulted them as in the song "Monster":

"Monster, he's a monster, he's an animal!" Those are straightforward insults that I don't recollect Michael ever did in his songs. In order to make it more believable, there are some cliché sentences in those lyrics:

[You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes ] = Threatened, Thriller

[He be waiting with his camera on focus ] = Privacy

[Too bad] = 2Bad

[Oh-oh Hollywood, it's got you jumping like you should] = Hollywood Tonight, Elisabeth I love you, (Jumpo for joy?)

[It's got you bouncing off the walls] = Off the wall

[(Oh oh) Hollywood just look in the mirror ] = Hollywood tonight, Elisabeth I love you, Man in the mirror

[Mama say, mama got you in a zig zag] = Wanna be startin' somethin'

[And you're running
And you're running just to escape it ] = Xscape

[But they're gunning for the money so they fake it] = Money


[(why you stalking me) ] = Privacy, Xscape

50 Cents's[I can feel it in the air, ] = Phil Collins's I can feel it coming in the air tonight (ooops!)

[everybody wanna be a star] = Elisabeth I love you

As a conclusion, yes, indeed, it sounds like Michael (but it is not).

Way too many references to be taken seriously as a Michael Jackson song...

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The "Whyyyy" at 37 seconds sounds so similar to the "Monsterrrr" backing vocals.

I think James Porte might have been working with Jason on his two albums.

Why is it that no moderators or admins here at MJJC or MaxJax that really believe it's not Michael on the songs takes part of the big discussions?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Disclaimer : I'm not writing this as a moderator.

Okay I'll be brutally honest - The above just shows how some "doubters" can be disrespectful of other people's opinions.

First of all as I did mention over and over again - I honestly and truly hear Michael on those songs, that has been my opinion since the first streaming of Breaking News and it has got nothing to do with legal perspectives, logic, statements etc.

Additionally if you read my posts despite my "belief" and "legal mumbo jumbo", you'll see me agree with people in regards to possibility of some events such as fooling the scientific tests and even saying that "I might be wrong". That's me acknowledging the possibilities even though I might not be agreeing with them. That's me being honest and realistic and not pushing my own opinions on people.

However as the above posts shows it seems that it's not even possible to get basic respect from some of the people with differentiating opinion because as you write it - I must have "inferior hearing, an ulterior motive, must be delusional, must be blindly accepting, lying to myself" and that's "it's absolutely not Michael" and "you are absolutely right and everyone is absolutely wrong". And personally I have a problem with this.

Honestly regardless of how strong and confident in your opinion you might be, you must be able to act respectfully to other people that doesn't share your opinions. You can easily think and act "I don't agree with anything you say but I'll respect it".

Some of you ask why I wrote long posts well it's because I took other peoples's (long and detailed) posts seriously and believed that they deserved an equally thoughtful response. I did contact several active posers in this thread privately and I told them how I respect their discussions and their style in expressing their opinions. This hasn't changed for me.

And another brutally honest point - when I write something (anything about any subject) and the response I get is personal I really cannot take it seriously. Because if I write something and I'm wrong, people can easily demonstrate me that how I might be wrong (example : my discussions with Bumper and love is magical and Arklove and L.T.D. etc -sorry if I forgot to mention you here). However if I write something and all I get is personal insults and accusations , then I feel the people on the opposite side has nothing they can say about what I wrote and hence needed to resort to "below the belt" attacks.

I spent time on this thread because I believed there were people who had raised interesting points and had the knowledge and ability to respectfully continue the discussion and I though that this was a "debate" thread. If that's not the case please tell me so and I can happily stay out while you write the same thing (it's Jason) over and over for the 14,865th time or better yet discuss SpongeBob.

peace out.

Even though sometimes you might have thought that I was disrespectful towards you, I explained that I was aiming my posts at your arguments, not at you.

For my part, the reason why I debate and read and write long posts is because I am really trying to understand believers' point of view and the thing they hear with their own ears without considering them inferior.

There are so many discrepancies with those songs that not a single argument that has been provided from believers' point of view was sufficient to convince unfortunately-- and that despite the fact that I honestly and really try hard every day to hear Michael on those tracks and I am absolutely unable. Maybe my ears are inferior then?

Another point that I raised and that Sam was talking all long are the lyrics. Honestly I didn't give that much importance to the lyrics to prove if the voice is Michael's or not, because anyone can read or say anything even though it could be shocking, but in no way we could deduce if the voice is genuine or not based on the lyrics.

HOWEVER, I raised another point and anyone can feel free to help:

I might be wrong here, but I don't remember when Michael ever insulted anyone in his songs. Michael did criticize papparazis, but I don't remember that he ever insulted them as in the song "Monster":

"Monster, he's a monster, he's an animal!" Those are straightforward insults that I don't recollect Michael ever did in his songs.

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think James Porte might have been working with Jason on his two albums.

Why is it that no moderators or admins here at MJJC or MaxJax that really believe it's not Michael on the songs takes part of the big discussions?

I don't think it's Michael at all.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But you're a Staff member

(following you on Twitter now btw!)

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think James Porte might have been working with Jason on his two albums.

Why is it that no moderators or admins here at MJJC or MaxJax that really believe it's not Michael on the songs takes part of the big discussions?

Good question.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I might be wrong here, but I don't remember when Michael ever insulted anyone in his songs. Michael did criticize papparazis, but I don't remember that he ever insulted them as in the song "Monster":

"Monster, he's a monster, he's an animal!" Those are straightforward insults that I don't recollect Michael ever did in his songs.

Bumper, very good point. I don't rememeber Michael sang anything that is insulting towards another person. Even in D.S., he didn't make any derogatory remarks, he just chanted "Tom Sneddon is a cold man."

One may argue that the lyrics of Monster are not written by Michael. But, do you honestly believe Michael Jackson, a humble genius with a gentle soul and heart made of gold, would agree to sing a line that called other an animal?

I never like the song Monster. This song never speaks to me. I don't feel I'm listening to a Michael Jackson song when I hear Monster. Sonically and lyrically, the song does not have the Michael Jackson essence.

Gee... what a disgrace! A song with awful lyrics is now being branded as a Michael Jackson song. :doh:

 

[Tom]

But you're a Staff member

(following you on Twitter now btw!)

Haha cheers There's no difference, just staff/senior staff/admin

Bumper, very good point. I don't rememeber Michael sang anything that is insulting towards another person. Even in D.S., he didn't make any derogatory remarks, he just chanted "Tom Sneddon is a cold man."

One may argue that the lyrics of Monster are not written by Michael. But, do you honestly believe Michael Jackson, a humble genius with a gentle soul and heart made of gold, would agree to sing a line that called other an animal?

I never like the song Monster. This song never speaks to me. I don't feel I'm listening to a Michael Jackson song when I hear Monster. Sonically and lyrically, the song does not have the Michael Jackson essence.

Gee... what a disgrace! A song with awful lyrics is now being branded as a Michael Jackson song. :doh:

Didn't Michael call Tom a dog in D.S.? And if he did, it's with good reason of course.. whereas in Monster it's unecessary.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I never like the song Monster. This song never speaks to me. I don't feel I'm listening to a Michael Jackson song when I hear Monster. Sonically and lyrically, the song does not have the Michael Jackson essence.

Gee... what a disgrace! A song with awful lyrics is now being branded as a Michael Jackson song. :doh:

Agree with your whole post, but this part in particular. When I first heard even the snippet, I felt so passive. What a completely foreign feeling when it comes to Michael Jackson! It sounded so generic, so blah, so.....like every other superficial piece of pop crap that is considered 'music' nowadays to the general public. I let my sister listen to Monster, and didn't tell her anything about it...Not only was she disgusted at the vocals she was hearing, but the very next thing she said was, 'This doesn't sound like anything he'd even considered putting together..' Even when Michael sung a pop song, he made it DIFFERENT and always unlike any other song you've ever heard. There's no soul, no emotion, no pure raw core that is Michael. Instead, there's a failed attempt. It's a literal joke to me that I'm expected to believe any of those songs are sung by Michael Jackson.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Haha cheers There's no difference, just staff/senior staff/admin



Didn't Michael call Tom a dog in D.S.? And if he did, it's with good reason of course.. whereas in Monster it's unecessary.

I was rather surprised he didn't call him worse than a dog.

But anyway, Michael sings about papparazis in Privacy too, he didn't insult them despite Lady Di's death, he simply criticized them. Why would he all of sudden in 2007 call them animals and monsters, which is rather insulting?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Agree with your whole post, but this part in particular. When I first heard even the snippet, I felt so passive. What a completely foreign feeling when it comes to Michael Jackson! It sounded so generic, so blah, so.....like every other superficial piece of pop crap that is considered 'music' nowadays to the general public. Even when Michael sung a pop song, he made it DIFFERENT and always unlike any other song you've ever heard. There's no soul, no emotion, no pure raw core that is Michael. Instead, there's a failed attempt. It's a literal joke to me that I'm expected to believe any of those songs are sung by Michael Jackson.

That's what I call instinct

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That's what I call instinct

I agree with you, instinctually

hmmm...did I spell that wrong? :lol:

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I agree with you, instinctually

hmmm...did I spell that wrong? :lol:

Actuavely you deed

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Actuavely you deed

:nono:

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That's what I call instinct

It stinks.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Even though sometimes you might have thought that I was disrespectful towards you, I explained that I was aiming my posts at your arguments, not at you.

For my part, the reason why I debate and read and write long posts is because I am really trying to understand believers' point of view and the thing they hear with their own ears without considering them inferior.

I know and that's why I clearly separated you (and some others). I got attacked for my "long posts" which were response to your (and others) equally "long posts" which surprisingly (or perhaps not so surprisingly show of double standard) didn't receive the same criticism. I do not plan to apologize - regardless of difference in opinions- I felt that some people were worthy of my time and effort - hence the long posts.

There are so many discrepancies with those songs that not a single argument that has been provided from believers' point of view was sufficient to convince unfortunately-- and that despite the fact that I honestly and really try hard every day to hear Michael on those tracks and I am absolutely unable.

and that's fine. I honestly do not think anybody can change anyone else's opinion or that we can find the answers we are looking for in this thread. Again I thought we were picking each other's brains about the subject and if I'm wrong like I said I'll stay out.

I might be wrong here, but I don't remember when Michael ever insulted anyone in his songs. Michael did criticize papparazis, but I don't remember that he ever insulted them as in the song "Monster"

simply put - there are 2 other people that are credited with the lyrics.

Why is it that no moderators or admins here at MJJC or MaxJax that really believe it's not Michael on the songs takes part of the big discussions?

Tom is here. Several other staff has also expressed their opinions.

But you're a Staff member

I don't know about MaxJax but here senior staff just has an additional dedicated task they perform hence the title difference. Otherwise staff is staff.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I might be wrong here, but I don't remember when Michael ever insulted anyone in his songs. Michael did criticize papparazis, but I don't remember that he ever insulted them as in the song "Monster":

"Monster, he's a monster, he's an animal!" Those are straightforward insults that I don't recollect Michael ever did in his songs.

simply put - there are 2 other people that are credited with the vocals.

One may argue that the lyrics of Monster are not written by Michael. But, do you honestly believe Michael Jackson, a humble genius with a gentle soul and heart made of gold, would agree to sing a line that called other an animal?

Ivy, has it ever come across your mind that the lyrics of Monster, Breaking News and KYHU are extraordinary weak by the Michael Jackson standard? Do you think Michael Jackson, an advocate of love and forgiveness, would call someone a monster and an animal?

Okay, I just re-read your post. You said there are two other people credited with the vocals, not lyrics. So, are you suggesting the line is sung by the two other people, not by Michael. Still, do you think Michael would agree to incorporate such a derogatory line in his song?

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not to talk for Ivy, but I think she did mean the lyrics, which most likely explains why the lyrics are, I'll admit, pretty weak and ameteur-ish. Based on my belief system, I'd say MJ had fairly little input in the writing process, maybe little tweaks and the ad-libs.

Love is magical, have you heard the snippet yet?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

As pathetic as the lyrics are, that's not even the issue here. The piss-poor lyrics don't prove it's not Michael - although they are lyrics he would never sing - it's the fact that the vocalist is so piss-poor on them that is the issue here.

Just listen to that isolated lead vocal on Breaking News. That's all. If you think that guy on there has 40+ years of experience at the highest possible levels that it's possible for a singer to reach, then you should think again.

[youtube]qWBNH5-HY-Q[/youtube]

Michael Jackson? Little Michael Jackson from Ed Sullivan singing 'Who's Loving You?' has more skill than this joke. At age 11. After 40 years of experience he forgot how to hold a note? He forgot how to extend his phrases? He forgot his usual use of vibrato?

It's a lie. The whole thing is a scam. A disgusting scam. Michael Jackson? Give over!

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Based on my belief system, I'd say MJ had fairly little input in the writing process

Based on my belief system, he wasn't even alive when this bullshit was written.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Sam, you and I really do think alike....I was just listening to 'Who's Lovin' You' yesterday and thought the exact same as you...No fucking way that child prodigy is the same voice on Breaking News....

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not to talk for Ivy, but I think she did mean the lyrics, which most likely explains why the lyrics are, I'll admit, pretty weak and ameteur-ish. Based on my belief system, I'd say MJ had fairly little input in the writing process, maybe little tweaks and the ad-libs.

Love is magical, have you heard the snippet yet?

Yup, I thought she meant lyrics after my first read too...

I've heard the second snippet. Great job! I like the second one more. The "hoo's" blended in much better than the "heehee's"

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

At the risk of being flamed, the vocalist on that isolated tracks sounds like someone who isn't trying hard to sing, who is just messing around at the mic, and wouldn't be taking the song seriously, and with the backstory of the song's creation, I find this to be completely reasonable and plausible... Of course, I am one of the few people who have believed the songs to be authentic the whole time. The only crime these songs have committed is the manipulation of the vocals they had in order to make it fit the song (it's obvious in the last refrains) and in the "you're breaking the news" segments towards the end.

... Again, my opinion.

@ love is magical, thanks for the feedback! My first rehearsal is tomorrow and I'm so excited!!!!!!

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Sam, you and I really do think alike...

And considering you are so brilliant... that's a good thing

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

At the risk of being flamed, the vocalist on that isolated tracks sounds like someone who isn't trying hard to sing, who is just messing around at the mic, and wouldn't be taking the song seriously, and with the backstory of the song's creation, I find this to be completely reasonable and plausible...

So I'll add all of that to the PVC pipe, the Melodyne, the 'scratch' vocals, the poor studio, Michael having a cold, etc. etc.

In other words, it sounds absolutely nothing like Michael Jackson hence it is Michael Jackson. Because the back story, provided by the sellers, claims it's Michael Jackson.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And considering you are so brilliant... that's a good thing

I find this particularly interesting; this little bit of info about BN in the lyric book of the album;

...This is Michael's life under the microscope. The more success you have the more some try to tear you down. This is Michael's personal story. This is prophecy. Michael demonstrated a keen sense of humor regarding the media. He would often disguise his voice as a journalist talking about "Michael Jackson." He seemed to find a lot of humor in how silly things would make the news....

Take that as you will....:mello:

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ivy, has it ever come across your mind that the lyrics of Monster, Breaking News and KYHU are extraordinary weak by the Michael Jackson standard? Do you think Michael Jackson, an advocate of love and forgiveness, would call someone a monster and an animal?

Okay, I just re-read your post. You said there are two other people credited with the vocals, not lyrics. So, are you suggesting the line is sung by the two other people, not by Michael. Still, do you think Michael would agree to incorporate such a derogatory line in his song?

Not to talk for Ivy, but I think she did mean the lyrics, which most likely explains why the lyrics are, I'll admit, pretty weak and ameteur-ish. Based on my belief system, I'd say MJ had fairly little input in the writing process, maybe little tweaks and the ad-libs.

Love is magical, have you heard the snippet yet?

Yep I meant lyrics - typo on my part sorry about that.

wasn't these work-in-process songs? we heard Michael mumble and sing random words in the songs and he changed the lyrics as he worked on the songs. he might have been singing them like they were written and would change them if/when he used the songs.

plus if we go with Roger Friedman's story these were the songs that Eddie and Frank was working on with James Porte and the idea that Michael singing them came later on. If true it would make sense the songs not fitting Michael because they weren't written for him and they were being modified to fit.

 

[Kapital77]

OK, everybody knows is not Michael Jackson and it´s Jason Malachi´s voice.

Cascios take down all the comparison videos from You tube.

What is the next chapter? what we should do or what the family should do to clear the problem?.

Go to a court? claim against the Estate?.

I don´t want to go in circles debating against Ivi or others.

They have their own feelings and we need a next step to solve the problem.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Sam, you and I really do think alike....I was just listening to 'Who's Lovin' You' yesterday and thought the exact same as you...No fucking way that child prodigy is the same voice on Breaking News....

Make it three. I was listening to I Want You Back a couple days ago. Man... Michael Jackson, at merely 10 years of age, could use vibrato so beautifully... The way he conveyed emotion, the way he phrased and just his overall singing skills take my breath away.

I said it before and I'll repeat. The song Who's Lovin' You on Live at the Forum literally froze me during my morning commute. I was standing on the street like a statue for 3 minutes.

Also, do you guys remember the Dangerous court deposition in which he talked about the Dangerous demo. He got hit by a 7-feet wall just before he started singing the demo. If you and I got hit by a wall, we probably could not sing a word, not Michael Jackson. He managed to sing the whole demo, which is released as Dangerous (early version) on TUC. Even when Michael was not 100%, he could still sing like a bird and sounded like his usual self.