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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I wonder if believers have ever asked themselves how would Jason Malachi sound if he did his best imitation of Michael Jackson, plus process his vocals to sound even closer to MJ's vocals, and why not, words that sound least Michael copy-pasted from MJ's previoius songs to Michael the songs up?
 
Grent said:
So you feel, the doubters are all in here ? That's what I felt too at first.
When I read the BN Premiere thread, however, I was surprised of how many people immediately said it was not MJ and sticked to that, but seem to never post in this thread, at least in the last couple of months. Some say, many don't post anyhwere anymore.
So you don't feel you are within a minority? I actually don't know whether there are more doubters or believers. But I'm pretty sure, that there are very little "90%+ believers". What group you belong to always influences your thoughts once in a while, I guess.

What I mean is, it might be easier for people to not take the doubters seriously because they believe the doubters are just a bunch of crazy people trolling in the dark corner of a forum. (remember that post '1300 pages of trolling' ?)
People might rethink their position if they see the whole picture.
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#1 Sometimes it feels like if all the doubters are here cause many believers don't come here or got bullied out.

#2 I don't really know how many Doubters and Believers are out there.

#3 I do not think that the Doubters are crazy at all they are just people that have the right to say or believe what they want but no one has been able to show creditable proof that it's not MJ.
 
Is it sad that I'm more satisfied with what is essentially a remix album (Immortal) than I am with Michael? My only real complaint about the music is that more often than not they weren't the full version (though that was expected) and the transitions were sometimes a bit off... Though I've gotten used to them since. The whole Melodyning Michael's voice doesn't bother me because it was meant to be a new experience, almost like a live album. Had Michael endorsed this show and been a part of it, I'm sure he would've re-recorded vocals for a lot of the tracks. Plus, he manipulated his recorded voice before in shows, like Billie Jean 2001 in order to give the illusion that he was singing live. So not a big deal. At least it's not as blatant as Hollywood's vocal manipulation...
 
LOL @ saying the "doubters" don't say where we hear jason. Not only have we said it, we've made comparison videos with the clips back-to-back. yes, i do, in fact, hear jason throughout the entire song, on every cascio track. But i'm happy to go ahead and pinpoint some exact locations, b/c, well, it's easy. I wish someone on the "other side" would do the same. i have literally read EVERY WORD of this thread, from page 1 to page 1398, and in my recollection, a "believer" has only pinpointed EXACT LINES that sound like michael, twice. In this entire thread.

where it most sounds like jason, to me: (i'm going into this cold, i haven't listened to these songs in FOREVER):

BREAKING NEWS
--"just when you thought he was done he comes to give it again"
--"everybody watchin the news i'm michael jackson" that whole line, but specifically, the way he says "news"
--his adlibs during the second chorus.
--"why is it strange" adlib towards the end
--his "you keep on breakin the news" ad libs at the end.


KYHU:
--"keepin alive"
--his falsetto. its just not the same as michael's, like at all. example: "every time her baby cries"
--"under me" in "suckin up the air from under me"
--"keep your head up don't give up today"

and . . . that's as far as i got. i honestly can't listen to keep your head up in full it's too much for me to handle.

MONSTER:
--"you look at them comin out the walls" . . . really that entire first verse is painful
--"drunk enough to fall"
--the "yeah ah ah" and the "oh oh oh" sounds like mike. oh wait. it is. copy/paste
--"mama say mama got you in a zigzag"
--"like you should" ad lib "hollywood" ad lib. Everytime he says "hollywood" in this song, i want to pull my hair out.
--"he's like an animal"
--"everybody wanna be a star oooh ooh"
 
And besides the voice and style of singing, we also still have...........
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.
.
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These lyrics
:no:

I like the idea of contacting a journalist to write a lengthy article or maybe a newsitem in a daily show or something. A respected journalist or a respected and/or wellknown newsshow. Not only because maybe it willl set some wheels in motion, but also to let the general public know.
An objective piece, that will not be a direct accusation, but more like: "There's been a division amongst fans, that's still going on, because a lot of fans believe this and that...". Would be great if a knowledgable fan(s) who knows every detail, would appear to explain why we believe what we believe. And maybe a representative of Sony/Estate will be invited too..:)burstbubble). Who knows, maybe someone is interested in this subject.
Not sure if that can lead to lawsuits, btw. I don't think so, if it is done in the right way.

I would understand that some fans would think Michael's name is again dragged through the mud (by 'doubters'), that Michael again is in the news in a negative way, but you can also look at it from a different point of view. Namely, the impression people might get that Michael's fans care enough to ring the alarmbell and finally want more clearity.
 
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you know guys, there has been talk of what you guys are hearing or not hearing for hundreds of pages. I pose a new question; forget what you hear, do these 12 cascio songs FEEL like Michael Jackson? you shouldnt have to think at all about this, its either yes or no, there need not be any explanation, though those are welcome if you feel the need to elaborate.
 
eXceLOfFam1 said:
you know guys, there has been talk of what you guys are hearing or not hearing for hundreds of pages. I pose a new question; forget what you hear, do these 12 cascio songs FEEL like Michael Jackson? you shouldnt have to think at all about this, its either yes or no, there need not be any explanation, though those are welcome if you feel the need to elaborate.
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I totally agree with you. But unfortunately cold facts and proof have become more important with these songs. SO not what music should be about.
But it really is the most important question, you are asking here.
 
Ever since Cascio crap (and yes, this is how I feel about those ... uh erm ... songs?) was released I've been wondering whether people who hear MJ's voice on the lead vocals have an ear for music or not. When you guys sing, do you sing in tune? If you're not sure try to record yourself or ask someone from your entourage (honest answer is required, of course.) I'm asking this question not to offend anyone but in order to understand where such conviction/opinion of yours may come from.

As for $ony and e$state, I can only admire the choice of their strategy regarding MJ fans community: Divide and Rule :bow: Obviously they succeeded
applausesmiley-1.gif
. I just hope one day this case will be brought to court :)
 
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BottleOfSmoke said:
Ever since Cascio crap (and yes, this is how I feel about those ... uh erm ... songs?) was released I've been wondering whether people who hear MJ's voice on the lead vocals have an ear for music or not. When you guys sing, do you sing in tune? If you're not sure try to record yourself or ask someone from your entourage (honest answer is required, of course.) I'm asking this question not to offend anyone but in order to understand where such conviction/opinion of yours may come from.

As for $ony and e$state, I can only admire the choice of their strategy regarding MJ fans community: Divide and Rule :bow: Obviously they succeeded
applausesmiley-1.gif
. I just hope one day this case will be brought to court :)
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"I've been wondering whether people who hear MJ's voice on the lead vocals have an ear for music or not."
"I'm asking this question not to offend anyone but in order to understand where such conviction/opinion of yours may come from."

I'm sorry but even if you say, no offence, saying stuff like that basicly means you do think that everyone who hears MJ in the tracks must have something wrong with hearing music etc etc etc.

No offence (see what I did there), but this is exactly the stuff we don't need, in my honest humble opinion.

Now on to your question,
I'm not a singer, never will be, but I understand singing on tune and not on tune as does everyone else.
Now my opinion about the matter,
When I listen to, for example, Burn Tonight. I hear a voice that is on tune, fast etc etc and when I compare that to Jason Malachi it just doesn't do it for me. You see, this Jason Malachi guy is not always on tune. This guy also doesn't even have the same skills as the "Cascio Singer" imo.

And one more thing, comparing Mamacita to Burn Tonight made me laugh so hard. Such a bad comparison. If you guys really hear the same voice in both then I could ask you the same question, no offence. ;)
 
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I don't think these songs are Michael. And if I were to say I felt the voice on the Cascio tracks sounded completely identical to Malachi's own, I'd be lying.

HOW'EVAHH, There's certain things that can't be ignored. (ex; "My life" in KYHU and "My side" in Critical.)
 
The difference between the believers and the doubters is that the believers are wrong and the doubters are right. That's not my opinion, it's a well established fact :D
 
^ thats funny!! What debate courses did you learn to get that conclusion? haha
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
The difference between the believers and the doubters is that the believers are wrong and the doubters are right. That's not my opinion, it's a well established fact :D
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That is exactly why believers don't come here at all.

Update: Many believers say it's their "Opinion" or "They think" but doubters jump to think that they are right and many have made themselves believe that they are right.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
That is exactly why believers don't come here at all.

Update: Many believers say it's their "Opinion" or "They think" but doubters jump to think that they are right and many have made themselves believe that they are right.
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You are right there. Believers say they 'hear' MJ, 'in their opinion it is' MJ ... these are very vague statements. Whereas doubters are crystal clear. They simply know it's not MJ. Or at least it's my opinion that doubters know. :) They don't say 'we don't believe it's him'. Believers don't seem to be as sure as doubters are. This is just an observation, not an argument.

However, I know we are not hearing MJs vibrato. And since the vibrato is all over every Cascio track it's easy to assume, it's not MJ at all.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
The difference between the believers and the doubters is that the believers are wrong and the doubters are right. That's not my opinion, it's a well established fact :D
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:poke:

The difference between the believers and the doubters is that the believers are right and the doubters are wrong. That's not my opinion, it's a well established fact :naughty:
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
That is exactly why believers don't come here at all.

Update: Many believers say it's their "Opinion" or "They think" but doubters jump to think that they are right and many have made themselves believe that they are right.
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I think all the believers are here, there are exactly : one believer, you :D
 
[youtube]FdV5YTpuKIs[/youtube]

1.36-1.37 (mammasay, mammagotyou, but especially the 'mammasay')

Listen VERY CLOSELY to these two seconds. Michael NEVER used his voice like this.

I hereby challenge all 'believers' to find me an example where Michael used his voice like this.
 
There is a very good reason why "doubters" are 100% adamant they are right, and why the language of "believers" is more ambiguous.

I don't really need to say it.
 
Wenghua said:


:poke:

The difference between the believers and the doubters is that the believers are wrong and the doubters are right. That's not my opinion, it's a well established fact :naughty:
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Whatever you say :)
 
The mamase mama got you in a zig zag has a real mu- sound. The Ma is deep and richer that the rest of the word. Not saying that its rich prestine vocals. But who ever sung these tracks should have done better. I dont think it was Malachi, though it could point to him. His vocals dont seem strong enough to pull off the vocals in these songs unless the vocals were processed to hell...they werent. They sounds nearly the same in all versions
 
Grent said:
You are right there. Believers say they 'hear' MJ, 'in their opinion it is' MJ ... these are very vague statements. Whereas doubters are crystal clear. They simply know it's not MJ. Or at least it's my opinion that doubters know. :) They don't say 'we don't believe it's him'. Believers don't seem to be as sure as doubters are. This is just an observation, not an argument.

However, I know we are not hearing MJs vibrato. And since the vibrato is all over every Cascio track it's easy to assume, it's not MJ at all.
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kopwatcher said:
There is a very good reason why "doubters" are 100% adamant they are right, and why the language of "believers" is more ambiguous.

I don't really need to say it.
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Actually research has shown that "confidence" doesn't mean the voice identification is right.

I wrote this before, they arrest a guy for murder based on next door neighbor's voice identification. She says she talked to him everyday for 20 years and knows his voice. she's extremely confident and that's why he gets convicted. Later through DNA they find out he's not the killer. Hence you no longer see such voice identifications allowed anymore.
 
well wouldnt it have been easier for them to just take the mamasay from WBSS since they are using cut and past vocals so much.. I mean doubters say they take one syllabel from here, another from there.. well they could have used 5 syllabels just like that.. "mama say mama" they could have took it from the demo version, live version, or released version which ever and made it really MJ's voice..

So to doubters, why didn't they cut that piece if its not really MJ? Too obvious of a copy or? cuz they didnt need to take it from the released version.. there are hundreds of times Michael has said those lines that they could have used
 
ivy said:
Actually research has shown that "confidence" doesn't mean the voice identification is right.

I wrote this before, they arrest a guy for murder based on next door neighbor's voice identification. She says she talked to him everyday for 20 years and knows his voice. she's extremely confident and that's why he gets convicted. Later through DNA they find out he's not the killer. Hence you no longer see such voice identifications allowed anymore.
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Nice story. I don't know the case so can't argue the details, but in any case it doesn't make one iota of difference. This is not something I'm saying flippantly. If I had any doubt I'd say so. I KNOW that voice is not MJ. I trust my ears and I trust my gut. I would have no qualms on putting mine and the life of everyone I know, and every possession I have on it. It's not even a question to me.
 
Grent said:
You are right there. Believers say they 'hear' MJ, 'in their opinion it is' MJ ... these are very vague statements. Whereas doubters are crystal clear. They simply know it's not MJ. Or at least it's my opinion that doubters know. :) They don't say 'we don't believe it's him'. Believers don't seem to be as sure as doubters are. This is just an observation, not an argument.

However, I know we are not hearing MJs vibrato. And since the vibrato is all over every Cascio track it's easy to assume, it's not MJ at all.
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It's not that we are like is it MJ or not we say it's our opinion so people won't start a yes it is no it's not war.
 
KOPV said:
well wouldnt it have been easier for them to just take the mamasay from WBSS since they are using cut and past vocals so much.. I mean doubters say they take one syllabel from here, another from there.. well they could have used 5 syllabels just like that.. "mama say mama" they could have took it from the demo version, live version, or released version which ever and made it really MJ's voice..

So to doubters, why didn't they cut that piece if its not really MJ? Too obvious of a copy or? cuz they didnt need to take it from the released version.. there are hundreds of times Michael has said those lines that they could have used
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because that would have been too easy for fans to discover. that would have been the FIRST lyric we would have compared. Even non-fans would know where they could find a clip of michael jackson singing "mama say mama sa." Do you know how much harder it is for fans to pinpoint cut/paste jobs when they used single words, like "why" and "me"? You have to check like EVERY SONG to find a match.

even ones that are more obvious like the "oh oh oh" in monster, i knew i had heard before,but it took my forever to remember exactly what mj song it was cut/paste from. that would so NOT have been the case for "mama say mama sa". it would have been immediately apparent that they stole it from the one and only track where michael says that line--wanna be (which also happens to be one of his very very biggest songs). it's too easy.

plus, it seems whoever did this may have had access to the acapella of invincible, which is where they got the "why"s and "me" in monster. They probably didn't HAVE WBSS to go stealing from. And, michael in WBSS is about 30 years younger than "michael" was SUPPOSED to be on these tracks. so that might have stood out.
 
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