Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To be honest, that is about the same as my comparison of KYHU and Hollywood Tonight/Butterflies. Thanks for reposting it.

I made it yesterday, I thought you wanted someone to compare BOJ to something.

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I did, to see if the notes were identicle like how Malachi's notes are almost identicle with the Cascio tracks. But they are not, which means I can not use the fact that Cascio notes are not identicle with MJ's previous notes because Best Of Joy is also not identicle.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks Pent!!!

OMFG. Wow.

Exactly...I knew it would be blatantly obvious when comparing authentic track with a fake one...The reverse aspect of this is damning...

 

[AndreyZidane™]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@KingMikeJ: You don't need to compare the genuine songs off MICHAEL to his previously released songs to see if it's the same MJ, who we all know and loved (and still do) for so many years, who's singing. You don't need that, you just play a song and if it is MJ you'll just know, that's it. You play a song and if it is MJ, thrust me, you'll know.

I'll give you an example, look at Can't Get Your Weight Off Me. Out of the 7 second snippet (which isn't in the best quality either), we only get to hear Michael singing for about 3-4 seconds... yet that's all you need to hear to realize it's MJ, and have no doubts whatsoever. Let's go further more with the Don't Be Messin' Around snippet. Not only is the instrumental a very very very Michael'ish song from the Bad session but you only hear his voice clearly for about a second right before the snippet cuts you off from your listening pleasure... yet, you STILL just know it's Michael Jackson, you just know, simple as that.

None of these apply to the Cascio tracks which we've heard over and over again, even in high quality, even the acapellas yet you still don't go: "Oh yeah, that's Michael Jackson".

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If almost all of the community debated with me about Best Of Joy being fake for 6 months I think I would be starting to have my doubts. Before all this, the first time I heard KYHU I knew it was Michael.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Awww! I felt good coming into this thread today. It made me smile. Such a change from a few months ago.

Well, Hello all and thanks!

hi ginvid! i know this thread is great. join us. post more here.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Agreed, Andrey....

These Cascio songs don't even sound like anything he'd actually do...They scream mediocre pop...I let my sister listen to Monster and she said, 'not only is it obvious it's not Michael, but this doesn't even sound like a style he'd do..'...Now, I'm not saying that Michael can't change his style, but every single Michael Jackson song we've ever heard carries a unique MJ sound...No matter the style or direction he wanted to go with...That magic MJ sound was always, always there...

These songs don't have that magic and it's not just because of the voice...His overall musical essence is completely absent..

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I feel so stupid now... After so much preaching that they're real... I feel sick.

 

[AndreyZidane™]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@KingMikeJ: Like I said, you just know when it's Michael singing. There's no such thing as listening through songs while going: "Yeah, this is Michael, this is also Michael, this kinda is Michael, this one I'm not really sure, this one is Michael". No, it either is Michael or it isn't (setting the pasted ad-libs aside of course). So when you listen to a song you just know from the beginging wheter it's Michael or not, one the first listen, that's all. Even on 2000 Watts who sounds a bit... different from his other songs, you can still tell it's Michael Jackson without a doubt.

EDIT: Exactly Arklove, I forgot to mention the overall feel that a MJ song gives you. A specific feel that's obviously absent in the Cascio recordings.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Seriously, Jesta...Don't say that....It's nobodies fault except the people responsible for this sick mess....

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm sorry, it's just... I fought so much for these tracks, I even made a single cover for Monster! I listened to them constantly, made choreography to Monster and campaigned to show everyone that they were real. I feel so ashamed and dirty. It's making my skin crawl knowing that I was so greatly duped when I'm supposed to be a pretty smart kid.

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Whatever has went on with these songs, impersonators, editing, production, bad quality recording, shower, sick, sitting down, waking up and singing, whatever the fuck we've been told.

We should have never been put into a position where we have to decide whether or not these songs are Michael.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm sorry, it's just... I fought so much for these tracks, I even made a single cover for Monster! I listened to them constantly, made choreography to Monster and campaigned to show everyone that they were real. I feel so ashamed and dirty. It's making my skin crawl knowing that I was so greatly duped when I'm supposed to be a pretty smart kid.

Please don't feel sorry. We are all victims here.

Whatever has went on with these songs, impersonators, editing, production, bad quality recording, shower, sick, sitting down, waking up and singing, whatever the fuck we've been told.

We should have never been put into a position where we have to decide whether or not these songs are Michael.

Exactly! For too long, fans who don't support the album are perceived as negative, or worse, fans who don't do enough to support Michael. But, we are all suffering. We shouldn't be put in such situation where we have to doubt.

 

[AndreyZidane™]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

S'ok Jesta, it's not your fault.

Come here you guys, group hug time! P

*group hug*

No but in all honesty, I'm glad to see that things are being sorted out amongst fans, I'm glad that there's no more of that: "Your an idiot because you don't hear this, or that." or "You're not a real MJ fan because you believe/don't believe this and that" and stuff like that.

 

[love is magical]

S'ok Jesta, it's not your fault.

Come here you guys, group hug time! P

*group hug*

No but in all honesty, I'm glad to see that things are being sorted out amongst fans, I'm glad that there's no more of that: "Your an idiot because you don't hear this, or that." or "You're not a real MJ fan because you believe/don't believe this and that" and stuff like that.

:lol: my group hug to all.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Awwww.....Eeyore is SO cute :lol:

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You know the problem is that the album got accepted by the majority of the fanbase. We should have been a unity from the beginning showing them that we by no means would accept that they insult the legacy of the King. But instead the two camps starting fighting one another...and in many forums people who called the Cascio tracks fakes were banned or treated like second class fans who want to harm the sales only because of their hate toward Sony... :smilerolleyes:
And now the damage is done. I feel so bad. We should have been Michael's voice but we failed. It hurts.

this is exactly it. and sony/estate/whoever did this was HAPPY to see us all fighting because it diverted our focus from where it should have been. Now that we are all on the same page (or can at least agree that some seriously shady dealing has gone on here) we need to do something about it. I feel like it's my responsibility to uncover the truth about these tracks.

michael went through SO MUCH. he always had to get through it all by himself. now, he's not here to defend himself against the lies. After everything he gave us, i want to be there for him and defend his legacy now that he can't do it for himself.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

this is exactly it. and sony/estate/whoever did this was HAPPY to see us all fighting because it diverted our focus from where it should have been. Now that we are all on the same page (or can at least agree that some seriously shady dealing has gone on here) we need to do something about it. I feel like it's my responsibility to uncover the truth about these tracks.

michael went through SO MUCH. he always had to get through it all by himself. now, he's not here to defend himself against the lies. After everything he gave us, i want to be there for him and defend his legacy now that he can't do it for himself.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Well said, girl .....

Seriously, I just feel so helpless though...I mean, we all know these tracks are fake, and when I sit there watching a Michael video, or concert, or just listening to him, I just feel sick to my stomach knowing he's gone and he has no idea that this is happening...

They've assassinated his character on numerous occasions, accused him of horrid things, but NO ONE was able to take his musical integrity away...And, now look at what they're doing? It's so sick, sad, and fucking wrong...And even worse that they're doing this over his dead body...

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I need to see who's left...
Who here believes these songs feature Michael singing?

The list so far: KingMikeJ, Ivy

We're running out of believers, and even I'm having more doubts as time goes on.

Go ahead change your mind. I'm okay with being the odd one left.

I have my reasons and I just want to repeat once again that I never thought the vocals to be 100% Michael and that I believed it was Michael in parts with additional vocals. so as I always has seen myself in the middle ground of "it's Michael - it's not Michael" argument I'm fine with my position.

Whatever has went on with these songs, impersonators, editing, production, bad quality recording, shower, sick, sitting down, waking up and singing, whatever the fuck we've been told.

We should have never been put into a position where we have to decide whether or not these songs are Michael.

and that sums it up. Like I said the other day there's no sense in blaming ourselves and see each other as enemies. We really shouldn't be put into this position.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Michael being in parts of the song", just doesn't make any sense at all. Ad libs, yes, but parts? Jason doing a few lines, Michael doing a few lines?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Ivy, you are not alone! :hug:

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm inbetween now as well. When I listen to some lines I think, "How can people think that's not Michael?" and other lines I think "That sounds a bit off.."

Ok I'm going to post what I think is Michael and what I don't think/not sure. Tell me what you think.

 

[MJearthsong]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't understand how this was supposed to work in the long run anyway, especially as more and more people start doubting.

Were Michael Jackson fans supposed to listen to these songs against other Michael Jackson songs and just think it's normal forever? They were never going to realize they were duped? This is a completely stupid move on their part.

No, they surely thought that hardcore fans would know the difference from the first note or at least doubt these ridiculous songs, but they DIDN'T CARE. Probably when they put pen to paper to do the financial calculations, it turned out that even with the fans not buying the album, the general public, unaware, would buy it. With almost zero costs going into promotion and minimal production costs, I'm sure the return is good for SONY/Estate. Maybe not as good as they expected, but decent enough.

I've been sick for so long after this charade, I couldn't sleep for weeks, had nightmares, felt destroyed seeing his artistic legacy tarnished in such a blatant way. They took away his dignity as a human being first, they took his life, and now his artistry. I'm apalled at the humanity, really.

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael: She's looking for a job and a finer place to stay,
Michael: She's looking for the hope and the empty promises, (promises could be filled in by impersonator) (the way "hope" is sang is classic Michael)
Unsure but I think Michael: She's working two jobs, keeping alive,
Michael: She works in a restaurant night and day,
Unsure but I think Michael:She waits her life away,
Michael: She wipes her tears away.
Unsure: She's cries inside every time she feels this way,
Unsure: And she's dying inside, every time her baby cries.
Michael?: Noo

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Michael being in parts of the song", just doesn't make any sense at all. Ad libs, yes, but parts? Jason doing a few lines, Michael doing a few lines?

Well I'm not stuck on Jason

And I'm not talking about adlibs, everyone knows and agrees that they are added later on. You'll see some people believing that all the back vocals being Michael. Plus it's possible to have additional vocals and overlay, overdub, double track (such as simple dub, hype [accentuating just certain words or syllables] , ghost [subdued voice] techniques) them with Michael's vocals.

(yes generally these techniques are used with the same vocalist doing the multiple takes in same or different ways but as Michael was dead they might have tried it with close sounding person especially if the demo/guide vocals needed work to be releasable. plus sometimes a second singer double for the lead track can be intentionally used to give texture to the vocals and can be mixed down to not really hear the different voice and overcome the chorus effect.)

Some of my reasons depend on what's being referred as studio magic. Sure here you can ask "but is that ethical or acceptable" and we can discuss that for several months. But what is legit and what is ethical/ acceptable are two different concepts IMO.

I know and agree that the level of processing or any possible trick / magic / technique they used can be criticized as an action that shouldn't be done to such performer as Michael. However still that's a different issue than legit/fake.

and I do realize that my legal approach causes me define legit / fake different than most of you. legally as long as Michael's vocals are there "enhancing" them doesn't make it a fake.

@Ivy, you are not alone! :hug:

awww thank you

 

[MJearthsong]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael: She's looking for a job and a finer place to stay,
Michael: She's looking for the hope and the empty promises, (promises could be filled in by impersonator) (the way "hope" is sang is classic Michael)
Unsure but I think Michael: She's working two jobs, keeping alive,
Michael: She works in a restaurant night and day,
Unsure but I think Michael:She waits her life away,
Michael: She wipes her tears away.
Unsure: She's cries inside every time she feels this way,
Unsure: And she's dying inside, every time her baby cries.
Michael?: Noo

KYHU is the best impersonation out of the Cascio bunch. Had me tricked for a second when I first heard it. Although I haven't "felt" the magic hearing it. After several listenings, realized it is probably 100% someone else (most probably Malachi, after hearing all the comparisons). The voice is too unsure and "youngish" to be Michael. But yeah, he must have recorded the bits so many times to make it sound so convincing! Probably it took too much out of him and he could not keep up the standard for the rest of the ridiculous tracks. BN, Monster, such bad quality songs/ jokes (sorry).

 

[MJRemixed]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Mixing parts of 2 different parts would be impossible. In fact, it would be even MORE obvious then where it was MJ or JM. Not to mention the vibrato's, accents, pronunciation etc.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Didn't Birchey say that the vocals are from different recording sessions due to the use of different microphones?

 

[MJRemixed]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael always talks between takes, relays back to the recording engineer and vice versa, in this case Cascio.

where is the evidence of this work process?

Believe me you would know, for sure, if it were 2 voiced singing alternate lines. Don't insult your own intelligence by thinking its a plausible theory! :flowers:

 

[Justice_MJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The comparison videos, which TPIMaster made, are removed... I just wanted to post the links on my blog...