Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

We need these tracks leaked tbh for us all to make valued judgements on this.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I never said they weren't to blame for their participation, if this is the case? Why do you three keep saying this? What I said was they aren't to be blamed for what they're being accused of by certain members, when the dates don't add up.

If two people would rob a bank, and got caught, a person ended up dead. The getaway driver and actual robber is in police custody, would the driver be accused of murder, when prints, weapons, witnesses, all point to the one inside the bank for the murder? No, they'd be an accomplice, but they won't be charged with murder. Would it be fair to accuse them of murder?

You didn't read my post in its entirety, or you just ignored the point I made.

I said it doesn't matter the Cascios hired a soudalike or not. The moment they decided to turn in those extremely inconsitent "demos" or "snippets" in such low quality to Sony. They betrayed Michael. As an aspiring music producer and Michael's apprentice, Eddie knew in his heart his works with Michael were not releasable unless excessive manipulations and processings are done. The end products will never live up to the standards that people should uphold.

Whether an impersonator is hired or not, we can all agree the vocals are being processed to death. Parts of multiple takes pasted together, Michael's past songs were sampled here and there... The way they handled the songs is far from respectful.

A fraud cannot be proven now. So, I don't blame Eddie for fraud. However, I do blame him for betrayal.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm really curious to hear McClain's version of "Breaking News" to see how different it is from Teddy's version.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks Nick for sharing your opinion. I know Sony doesn't care about the outcome of this debate. We are pretty helpless here.

But still, would you please share what you saw in the Pro Tools sessions? Fans here really want to know. We want to be informed. So far, we've gotten nothing from the official channel. It's very frustrating.

Here is my enthusiast producer/remixer opinion:

Most of the files (if not all) are full-length stems. This means they were rendered out first and then put into these sessions. I am guessing these are the files sent to Riley and Sony. Both him and Sony may have easily been tricked. There are still no clear answers, just more speculation. More educated speculation, though.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Here is my enthusiast producer/remixer opinion:

Most of the files (if not all) are full-length stems. This means they were rendered out first and then put into these sessions. I am guessing these are the files sent to Riley and Sony. Both him and Sony may have easily been tricked. There are still no clear answers, just more speculation. More educated speculation, though.

What does "rendered out first and then put sessions" mean? Sorry, I don't understand music mixing language.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Nick, If I'm not mistaken I have your brilliant Who Is It remix. :D I love it!

Thank you for all of your information.'


edit: Yes, it is your remix, I recognized the logo from your signature! ;)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What does "rendered out first and then put sessions" mean? Sorry, I don't understand music mixing language.

Most sessions have audio in pieces placed along each track. (This is if it's a common pop song. Orchestral, some rock, and live recordings are all done at once usually). Whether it's a loop or a vocal take, not everything is one long continuous track. Each part on these is one long track, so they had to have been saved as such first.

Did I explain that good enough? lol
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Nick, If I'm not mistaken I have your brilliant Who Is It remix. :D I love it!

Thank you for all of your information.'


edit: Yes, it is your remix, I recognized the logo from your signature! ;)

Thank you! Wait until you hear what's next. ;)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Most sessions have audio in pieces placed along each track. (This is if it's a common pop song. Orchestral, some rock, and live recordings are all done at once usually). Whether it's a loop or a vocal take, not everything is one long continuous track. Each part on these is one long track, so they had to have been saved as such first.

Did I explain that good enough? lol

What does it imply?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What does it imply?

Cascio did whatever they wanted to do and sent to Sony to send to Riley. Meaning Riley was limited to what he could work with.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I really want to hear the other cascio tracks (most "Water")!
I hope we'll soon get another new info about the tracks and how were they worked.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Cascio did whatever they wanted to do and sent to Sony to send to Riley. Meaning Riley was limited to what he could work with.

^ When, in theory they should have sent Sony/Riley everything, but they didn't want to, because they were hiding something.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Cascio did whatever they wanted to do and sent to Sony to send to Riley. Meaning Riley was limited to what he could work with.

Just want to say thanks again. Your opinion and Birchey's opinon shed some light on what happened during the process.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well perhaps these tracks were just in the Angelikson vault and they sent them the tracks they had worked on? Maybe Eddie had worked on restoring them and making them sound as best he could and Sony took the job from there? We can't be sure but that seems as likely to me as 'they're hiding something'.

Also, when Birchey says 'Multiple mics were used'.. Could this perhaps be the shower mic and also the mic from the other room they recorded in? And maybe the one labeled the 'telephone'? Very interesting!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Oh, please just leave the shower story. Its all lies. MJ never recorded in the cascios shower ever. The most he did their was wash his ass like any other human being.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Please, grow up. You have no idea what you're talking about. It is entirely reasonable. If you've read this thread before there have been several musicians talking about their experiences with shower vocal recordings.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Oh, please just leave the shower story. Its all lies. MJ never recorded in the cascios shower ever. The most he did their was wash his ass like any other human being.

:lmao:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Please, grow up. You have no idea what you're talking about. It is entirely reasonable. If you've read this thread before there have been several musicians talking about their experiences with shower vocal recordings.

Stop being so gullible and believing such nonsense. Honestly!

That shower story is something you would tell a child. Its patronising and lame.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's not patronizing at all! You're making it that way.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yes, of course I am. Cascio just happened to say the same thing too.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You just cannot know the circumstances for sure. I bet Michael Jackson would get in a small cupboard full of teddy bears and record a song if he felt like it. He's Michael Jackson, he can record in a shower if he wants. I bet he's recorded in all kinds of places. Up in trees, in showers, on top of a ferris wheel.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Honestly to me it sounds like some people here got a little bit over excited and fail to realize that Birchey gave you his opinion (which has always been skeptical about Cascio songs) and not the proof you are waiting and hoping for.

see below

We all want to know the truth behind, thing is we probably wont ever and whatever happens we will never get anyone to admit anything.

and

There are still no clear answers, just more speculation. More educated speculation, though.


Last night we (Birchey and I) talked about the logical alternative explanations. (keep in mind that I'm not privy to the materials that Birchey has and therefore the below discussion will be based on logic)

For example we both think the songs are part Michael and part not him. Birchey believes "part not him" to be a voice impostor, I think them to be a credited supporting vocal such as Porte. Furthermore someone else can make the argument of sounds like him / doesn't sound like him can be explained by less processed / more processed sections.

again like mentioned above: there's still no certain answers , just more speculation.

Quoting Birchey:

This whole thing will remain a "conspiracy" forever


I personally didn't see a smoking gun presented, actually I think that what Birchey said collaborated what Teddy Riley has been saying all along. such as

- lead vocals are done from 1 or more takes : teddy said they were a few takes of the vocals.
- birchey and now nick is mentioning a possible pre - modification of the songs : teddy said that songs were processed by Cascio's to make them more presentable (or call it sell-able)
- another singer : both teddy and estate had confirmed that James Porte tracks are on the songs.
- awws, adlibs, fx : teddy said that he added those to finish the songs
- more processing " teddy said HT needed less processing but Cascio songs needed a lot more. so he processed the songs too.

and as far as I can understand this pro tool session just confirms the above explanations that came from teddy and / or gives us idea about how the songs are done. In short we can probably agree that the production was done in a cut / paste way.

who you think is singing the vocals is still a personal opinion.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

MJRemixed is said to be an experienced shower session musician. :eek:
And apart from that he also has a certificate that states:
"Accredited authority on the vocals of the ugly Mr. Jason Cupeta". :tease:


:D :flowers:
(You know, MJRemixed, I'm just cracking a joke, no personal insult intended, my esteemed colleague.)



What about the "HAA!" in Monster?

thats Jason Malachi's own voice there.


Woo-hoo! :woohoo: :dancin:


So, Teddy Riley felt the need to take more from Jason's obvious vocals for the album version to make it more easier for you guys to recognize the Jason dude.
What a great job! :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well perhaps these tracks were just in the Angelikson vault and they sent them the tracks they had worked on? Maybe Eddie had worked on restoring them and making them sound as best he could and Sony took the job from there? We can't be sure but that seems as likely to me as 'they're hiding something'.

Also, when Birchey says 'Multiple mics were used'.. Could this perhaps be the shower mic and also the mic from the other room they recorded in? And maybe the one labeled the 'telephone'? Very interesting!


What's there to restore? If Michael did lay down his vocals for 12 demos, we would not have heard all the butchering, copy-and-pasting and melodyning.

Yes, Michael is in the song, but do we know how much? Vast majority of the songs are filled with other vocals or vocals from prior works.

I don't know why you make it sound like the Cascios were actually doing Michael a favor by restoring the tracks and doing the best they could, when clearly that's not what they were doing.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex I love your sense of humour. Its so... Universal.

:flowers:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't think we got over-excited. I appreciate Birchey's opinon and Nick's opinion as they have heard more than just the finished version on the album.

Ivy, why do you omit the post where Birchey clealy said vast majority of the songs were not sung by Michael. He also said he didn't believe Michael was behind the mic. So, we have a Michael Jackson track in which vast majority of the song was not sung by him.

Korgnex, I really am curious to know your answer to my question. Could you please take a look?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What's there to restore? If Michael did lay down his vocals for 12 demos, we would not have heard all the butchering, copy-and-pasting and melodyning.

Yes, Michael is in the song, but do we know how much? Vast majority of the songs are filled with other vocals or vocals from prior works.

I don't know why you make it sound like the Cascios were actually doing Michael a favor by restoring the tracks and doing the best they could, when clearly that's not what they were doing.

Restoring of PVC pipes, Showers, Tubes and any other implement. You see the point is to record in these unusual circumstances and sit there for hours restoring the audio, so you have vocals that sound like they were recorded in a pro-studio :lol:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This Birchey fellow -- assuming that he really had access to the material he says he had -- offers absolutely no proof for his opinion, which is purely an opinion.

If anything, a lot of what he says would tend to support the theory that IT IS indeed MJ singing the Cascio tracks :

- The "Water Water" segment in TII is indeed the Cascio track, which indicates that MJ did know about those songs.

- "Some parts are MJ", which indicates that MJ did record those songs.

- "Multiple takes" were used and cut and pasted to create the final songs, which again indicates they did use MJ's voices, since otherwise they could have just gotten an impostor to sing the complete song in one take.

In fact, everything he says fits perfectly with that has always been claimed about the songs, which is that they were incomplete, raw vocals that were turned by producers into releasable songs using what they could.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What's there to restore? If Michael did lay down his vocals for 12 demos, we would not have heard all the butchering, copy-and-pasting and melodyning.

I love this much definitive answers. there's a guide demo of beatles that has first verse sung 3 times (3 takes in one track). so if they had died before finishing the song you say there would be no need to cut it? Like I mentioned before there's a song that has vocals of Lennon that he recorded to a tape recorder - and that has been processed before release.

I'm curious about who came up with "demos absolutely won't need any work" logic.


Ivy, why do you omit the post where Birchey clealy said vast majority of the songs were not sung by Michael. He also said he didn't believe Michael was behind the mic. So, we have a Michael Jackson track in which vast majority of the song was not sung by him.

as I said I'm not privy to the materials he's mentioning. Plus that's what he hears. It's no different that what you say you hear. or pentum / kapital saying "it's 100 Jason". If I listen to the songs perhaps I'll think /hear 80% of the vocals are Michael's, how can you know? and that's what I meant by "over excited". Birchey gave us his opinion , his interpretation which has always been skeptical.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

- The "Water Water" segment in TII is indeed the Cascio track, which indicates that MJ did know about those songs.

Michael knew about the song. So? Mean what? That he recorded the song in full? Recorded the song partially? Recorded just the harmony?
What does the fact that Michael knew about the song tell us?

- "Some parts are MJ", which indicates that MJ did record those songs.

How much is "some parts"? 1%? 2%? 10%? 20%? Michael may have just sung a line or two and never given the songs any consideration.

- "Multiple takes" were used and cut and pasted to create the final songs, which again indicates they did use MJ's voices, since otherwise they could have just gotten an impostor to sing the complete song in one take.

Why couldn't they ask the imposter to sing multiple takes and cut the best part from each take and paste the parts together?

An impostor is still an imposter. He won't sound more like Michael Jackson with each additional take.

If the real Michel Jackson used more than one take for a song, you think an imposter can do only one take?
 
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