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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
God bless you. And remember, whatever anyone says about Michael Jackson - that he wasn't a great lyricist, that he had 'off' days, that he recorded some 'rubbish' songs - none of it is true.

However great you think Michael Jackson was, he was greater.

Before I log off, you can have this - a photo of Michael Jackson at Great Ormond Street hospital in London days before the London leg of his Bad tour, in 1988. I spoke to the nurse that took these photos and she said to me that he came, secretly, and spent hours at the hospital. The girl in the picture had a hole in her neck and was desperately ill. Michael spent about an hour with her, singing songs to her and playing with her. I was allowed to copy these with permission. (None of these photos were ever made public although the press were given a couple of photos from Michael's personal photographer.)

So when some fans say 'he wasn't Leonard Cohen', they're right. He wasn't.

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Aw, thanks Sam. :huggy: We'll miss you!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Bumper: Well, in my opinion, you're way off about the Monster lyrics interpretation. And I also saw samhabib say these songs are about nothing, which is completely untrue.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
@Bumper: Well, in my opinion, you're way off about the Monster lyrics interpretation. And I also saw samhabib say these songs are about nothing, which is completely untrue.
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And your profession is...?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@ Ivy, some people might have moved on and forgotten about the Cascio tracks, but sorry I just can't.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm an artist from America. I have been drawing and painting since I was a child, started listening to Michael when I was three years old, my life has been changed again and again by Michael. I produce my own music, others music, collaborate with other musicians, etc.

I choose to remain as anonymous as I can on the internet. I don't go revealing who I am to everybody because that would be foolish.

By the way, all I said is that in my opinion you're way off with your meanings... Maybe you get offended too easily? The lines in Monster and Keep Your Head Up are just fine and it's obvious what they mean.

But maybe you wouldn't know that? How many poems have you written in your life? How many songs have you written? If you don't mind sharing. I've written hundreds... and I listen to thousands of artists. I find nothing strange about the lyrics in these songs.

Obviously my opinion means nothing because I'm not a linguist like yourself? Ego problem? Can we have a discussion without getting insulting here? No, I guess not? I'm out of here then.

Michael Jackson is on these tracks, anyway. I haven't closed my mind to the possibility that someone faked these tracks, but there's absolutely no point in faking these songs. Give me one good reason why all these people would risk their entire lives and careers to fake these songs? So that they can have enough material for future MJ albums? Please...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
I'm an artist from America. I have been drawing and painting since I was a child, started listening to Michael when I was three years old, my life has been changed again and again by Michael. I produce my own music, others music, collaborate with other musicians, etc.

I choose to remain as anonymous as I can on the internet. I don't go revealing who I am to everybody because that would be foolish.

By the way, all I said is that in my opinion you're way off with your meanings... Maybe you get offended too easily? The lines in Monster and Keep Your Head Up are just fine and it's obvious what they mean.

But maybe you wouldn't know that? How many poems have you written in your life? How many songs have you written? If you don't mind sharing. I've written hundreds... and I listen to thousands of artists. I find nothing strange about the lyrics in these songs.

Obviously my opinion means nothing because I'm not a linguist like yourself? Ego problem? Can we have a discussion without getting insulting here? No, I guess not? I'm out of here then.

Michael Jackson is on these tracks, anyway. I haven't closed my mind to the possibility that someone faked these tracks, but there's absolutely no point in faking these songs. Give me one good reason why all these people would risk their entire lives and careers to fake these songs? So that they can have enough material for future MJ albums? Please...
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Errr, you misunderstood me. My question has nothing to do with ego. The reason I'd like to know what is your specialization is to try to understand what pushes you to believe one or another thing. Simply giving one opinion without knowing if that opinion is backed by some consistent knowledge in the area is less reliable than an opinion which can be backed and justified by some references, documents, etc.

In other words, I want to know who exactly says to me that I am way off and why.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
God bless you. And remember, whatever anyone says about Michael Jackson - that he wasn't a great lyricist, that he had 'off' days, that he recorded some 'rubbish' songs - none of it is true.

However great you think Michael Jackson was, he was greater.

Before I log off, you can have this - a photo of Michael Jackson at Great Ormond Street hospital in London days before the London leg of his Bad tour, in 1988. I spoke to the nurse that took these photos and she said to me that he came, secretly, and spent hours at the hospital. The girl in the picture had a hole in her neck and was desperately ill. Michael spent about an hour with her, singing songs to her and playing with her. I was allowed to copy these with permission. (None of these photos were ever made public although the press were given a couple of photos from Michael's personal photographer.)

So when some fans say 'he wasn't Leonard Cohen', they're right. He wasn't.

11040_240377647316_732517316_4760140_6681894_n.jpg
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That was so nice of Michael, he was so kind and didn't even want people to know people he was there, shows what a big heart he had.

Pentum said:
Check out TPI's falsetto comparsion! It got you bouncing off the wall!

http://soundcloud.com/tpimaster/falsettoyoghurt2-0
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Definitely has me bouncing off the wall.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Errr, you misunderstood me. My question has nothing to do with ego. The reason I'd like to know what is your specialization is to try to understand what pushes you to believe one or another thing. Simply giving one opinion without knowing if that opinion is backed by some consistent knowledge in the area is less reliable than an opinion which can be backed and justified by some references, documents, etc.

In other words, I want to know who exactly says to me that I am way off and why.
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I see. Well, I'm sorry I misunderstood you and I hope that I gave enough background information about myself that you understand a bit better where I am coming from when I listen to these tracks.

You didn't give me a very good reason why they were faked, yet.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
You didn't give me a very good reason why they were faked, yet.
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A complete nobody in the music biz (Eddie Cascio) got paid $5 milion. Dude is set for life. He's also associated with the one and only King Of Pop as one of the last producers MJ ever worked with. These are pretty good reasons.

It's not really that far-fetched to think that he faked the songs, you know? Dozens of people involved in this? Not really. I can count three: Cascio, Porte and possibly Jason Malachi. No one else would know. Of course, all of this is IF the vocal tracks are fake.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Does Eddie not come from a very wealthy family already? Is he really that worried about finances? I guess everyone probably is, but the Cascio's have definitely been a wealthy family.

I wonder why Eddie would be so concerned about 5 million that he'd betray Michael and love for money... If he was truly a fan of Michael Jackson, he'd have heard the song 'Money' and would never do such a thing! :D

Then you have the family doing NOTHING. Like ivy has stated, the family is humongous, one of them could be dealing with this issue, at least assuring the fans that they will handle this in time.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
@samhabib

look to this thread and tell me how many active posters are there? the majority of the people moved on and that's the reality

and plus what difference would it make really? honestly tell me this if they said this person / company did the tests and here are the copies of the result are you going to look to it and say "it's Micheal"?

Like I said everyone has made up their mind one way or another. and nothing will change anything. It's a futile attempt.
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I haven't moved on, I just don't post that often.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I really hope that, if proper evidence was presented, people wouldn't keep their minds so closed that they couldn't just face the truth. If I saw proof, or a real credible audiologist team doing scientific work and giving us the results.. I'd definitely consider it. Of course, I'd have to see it but if it was legit, there would be no denying.

Unfortunately, in the case of that WORK IN PROGRESS article, the guy just says he rediscovered MJ's music and joined the Michael Jackson message board. Then he goes on to say that members have been posting some interesting stuff about it being fake, and that he believes it. It seems most likely that he was influenced by the Cascio/Malachi comparison videos and doubter posts. There's no real concrete credibility to what this guy says no matter how interesting his opinion is.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Sam, I gonna miss you. Good luck with your project. I hope to resume our great Michael Jackson discussions with you soon! Yeah, I also hope one day we can concentrate on Michael's arts and put this controversy behind us.

I have learned a lot from you. I just feel that you, like Michael, are so misunderstood.

The picture you posted is priceless. I agree howerver great I think Michael Jackson was, he was far greater. Miss him so much!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
Does Eddie not come from a very wealthy family already? Is he really that worried about finances? I guess everyone probably is, but the Cascio's have definitely been a wealthy family.

I wonder why Eddie would be so concerned about 5 million that he'd betray Michael and love for money... If he was truly a fan of Michael Jackson, he'd have heard the song 'Money' and would never do such a thing! :D

Then you have the family doing NOTHING. Like ivy has stated, the family is humongous, one of them could be dealing with this issue, at least assuring the fans that they will handle this in time.
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I'm just curious. Why you think the Cascio's have definitely been a weathy family?

Eddie's father was a hotel manager in New York. That's how he got to know Michael. The Cascios are not the Trumps, the Rockefellers or the Kennedys. I'm not saying the family is desperate or greedy. But, $5 million is still $5 million.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
Sam, I gonna miss you. Good luck with your project. I hope to resume our great Michael Jackson discussions with you soon! Yeah, I also hope one day we can concentrate on Michael's arts and put this controversy behind us.

I have learned a lot from you. I just feel that you, like Michael, are so misunderstood.

The picture you posted is priceless. I agree howerver great I think Michael Jackson was, he was far greater. Miss him so much!
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Sam has been VERY misunderstood on here...I want people to know that....A complete sweetheart, thoughtful and brilliant...

Michael is a miracle to me. He's precious. We need to treat him and his legacy as such.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
Done. The Music Technology Group in Barcelona proved it's not Michael Jackson.

Now... what was the company that did the analysis for Sony? Oh right... they never told us. In fact, they gave us ABSOLUTELY ZERO details regarding who, what and how the analysis was conducted.
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The article doesn't state that any testing was done - only that he was mad enough to send the songs to his friend at the Music Technology Group. That's all.

Re: Korgnex's post about Monster being about a porn star or something like that, he was probably referring to this ad-lib in Monster - "She wanna be a star!". But then, the song is about anyone wanting to become famous as the album booklet says and the problems they face including MJ. The paps are the monsters who chase the famous and the scream at the start is of alady terrified by them while trying to become famous. In Speed Demon, you'll notice those chasing MJ/Spike take on a demonic, cannabalistic-like appearance - Timmy does, for one. Same idea and they are then lumped in on one vehicle equating them with the hordes of paps chasing the star.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
I'm just curious. Why you think the Cascio's have definitely been a weathy family?

Eddie's father was a hotel manager in New York. That's how he got to know Michael. The Cascios are not the Trumps, the Rockefellers or the Kennedys. I'm not saying the family is desperate or greedy. But, $5 million is still $5 million.
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The family have a series of established restaurants I believe (and a over $1M worth house). I think that's the reason many people think them to be wealthy.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
The family have a series of established restaurants I believe (and a over $1M worth house). I think that's the reason many people think them to be wealthy.
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Thanks Ivy. Yeah, the family is well-off then.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Worldwide said:
That was so nice of Michael, he was so kind and didn't even want people to know people he was there, shows what a big heart he had.



Definitely has me bouncing off the wall.
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It doesnt matter how many times you compare the high notes of Michael and Jason, yes they sound the same, but Michael had an actual singing technique that he discovered, and people like Jason Malachi and Jean Walker have honed in on what it actually was, yes those highs are VERY comparable, but you have to compare every aspect of the vocals, which is why this is no where near correct.

Move on people its Michael and thats that, you have no evidence to suggest otherwise
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry141094 said:
Move on people its Michael and thats that, you have no evidence to suggest otherwise
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Using an analogy, we therefore have to accept that there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster governing the universe with its noodley appendages.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, it's the exact same. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I found this wonderful remix of "Breaking News" on youtube along with his opinion regarding the vocals




Here is the excerpt:

As a MJ fan since childhood, a songwriter/recording artist for 15 years, a self-taught freelance digital sound engineer for 14, and a producer for 12, I believe this is Michael Jackson. Just because the voice sounds less than perfect doesn't mean it's not Michael Jackson. Vocals were cut, pasted and heavily processed to finish "Breaking News" without Michael's involvement. Whether it's even ethical to do that to a posthumous MJ song is the topic of another debate. Either way, I've done that sort of detailed digital vocal editing, vocal extraction, FFT filtering etc. for 14 years and I consider myself an expert. I do agree that Micheal's trademark perfection is missing from the song (because his final vocal takes aren't on it). Yes, the magic and natural delivery are lost on the song. Yes, Michael sounds different on this song. Michael's song "2000 Watts" sounds even less like his voice, but the song was released in his lifetime and represents how his voice inevitably changed and evolved over the years. Michael is a genius, but before that, he's human. Everyone's voice changes with age. The same general public that failed to support Michael's last few albums have suddenly become die hard fans again. Of course the unfinished vocal outtakes of a 47 year old MJ won't sound like the perfect final takes of a 27 year old MJ. That doesn't mean it's not his voice on the song. Plus, the vocals were recorded in a very basic home studio at the Cascio home with poor sound isolation. Different equipment/room means different sound quality.

Yes, his family has voiced their disbelief of it being sung by MJ, but how often were they involved in the actual recording and mixing process in the studio? They, like most people, probably only heard the perfect final drafts of his songs. Suspiciously though, Michael's own nephew (Taryll Jackson), who had originally claimed the voice was not Michael's, is now speculated to have been there when the record was being put together. Given their collective track record, the credibility and intentions of the Jackson family's claims on anything is questionable at best. In contrast, the Cascios (Michael's "2nd family") proved their loyalty to Michael by respecting his privacy for decades and being there during his darkest hours. The Jackson family's reason for discrediting the Cascio recordings could be as simple as jealousy. Nonetheless, longtime collaborator/producer Teddy Riley has gone on the record saying this is in fact Michael Jackson. His opinion should carry weight, because he really knows Micheal's voice inside and out and he heard Michael's vocal outtakes live and in person all the way into the Invincible album. Several other producers (Bruce Swedien, Matt Forger, Stewart Brawley, Michael Prince, Dr. Freeze) who have worked with MJ numerous times have gone on the record as saying they have no doubts that this is Michael himself. These gentlemen were a part of numerous MJ rough drafts.

Some are claiming that the voice on the song is Jason Malachi. Jason Malachi is a good impersonator and can replicate Mike's vocal techniques pretty well. However, there are many parts of this song where every other word is cut from a different take. If they hired Malachi, there would be no need to do this as he could've recorded those lines straight through. Most engineers and producers will universally agree that this sort of cutting is a last resort technique that's only used when the artist is unavailable to re-record takes. Furthermore, Malachi himself has denied any involvement with the song. Some are even claiming that it's not Malachi, but a different impersonator. During Michael's lifetime, the best impersonators made their names and sound pretty well known. It seems highly unlikely that Sony would find (or even waste time searching for) a new and unknown impersonator who was hiding in the woodwork all this time. How would Sony even go about discretely finding such a voice with every step of this project generating so much publicity? And why would Sony pay a quarter of a billion dollars for Michael's real catalog and then put out a fake song? Nonetheless, having examined the acappella's waveform at length, I can say the entire song's lead vocals are sung in the same person's voice. I am not alone in my assertion. A well known forensic musicologist was hired by the Estate to confirm whether the voice was Michael's. Sony also hired another world renown forensic musicologist to cross reference the first musicologist. Both sources (yes both) confirmed that the voice is none other than of Michael himself. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, it's sad to see this. Is it just me or does this almost seem like fans desperately reaching for yet another conspiracy surrounding Michael?

Not to offend anyone who truly believes this, but I notice that after his death it just seems like these sorts of theories have popped up like crazy. I mean, people were making up tons of stories about him before he died, there are lots of things made up after, too.

People are afraid to see Michael's legacy in other people's hands, too, it seems. They almost don't trust anybody with it.

I look at the picture of Eddie and Michael in 2009... I don't know how Eddie could go from hanging out with MJ in early 2009, to hearing Michael is coming back, to hearing Michael has passed away, to betraying him and recording fake tracks.

These theories are no less ridiculous than any of the so-called 'excuses'.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
Yeah, it's sad to see this. Is it just me or does this almost seem like fans desperately reaching for yet another conspiracy surrounding Michael?

Not to offend anyone who truly believes this, but I notice that after his death it just seems like these sorts of theories have popped up like crazy. I mean, people were making up tons of stories about him before he died, there are lots of things made up after, too.

People are afraid to see Michael's legacy in other people's hands, too, it seems. They almost don't trust anybody with it.

I look at the picture of Eddie and Michael in 2009... I don't know how Eddie could go from hanging out with MJ in early 2009, to hearing Michael is coming back, to hearing Michael has passed away, to betraying him and recording fake tracks.

These theories are no less ridiculous than any of the so-called 'excuses'.
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ridiculous?

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Who was after all with him during his difficult times:

MJ+2005+Trial+innocent+1.jpg
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Really? Really???
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I actually faked the pictures and distorted the reality.

Michael was never betrayed by his so called friends. They were kept away from him.
Michael hated to hang around with his family and his lawyer, they actually imposed their presence. Right;
 
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