Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't know what MJ thought, but what I mean is that, whether he chose to record with the Cascios as a humble gesture for his friends, even though he knew he was "above" them in terms of star wattage, or whether he accepted to record with them because he felt he owed them this favor, even though it was hard on his pride to be reduced to this -- my point is that in both scenarios, it's entirely plausible that he would work with them in their basement. So it can't be invoked as an argument in favor of the tracks being fake.

Thanks for your clarification. I don't know what exactly was in Michael's mind neither.

It's actually not hard for me to believe he recorded with his friends in a home studio. BUT, it's hard for me to believe his voice would turn out the way it turned out. AND, in order for his voice to turn out the way it turned out, all the mentioned circumstances (off-day, PVC pipe, shower, no warm-up, crappy equipment, etc.) had to take place...

Is it that difficult to understand why we have doubts?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

...and forbade the same Weird Al Yankowitz to make fun of Black or White.

which he continued to do at live shows

and that (which songs he allowed or not allowed) wasn't the point..

In the end even for a song or two he said "yes you can make fun of me" , it's something that some artists never say (example Prince). What does this tell you?

to me it tells that he was a humble person that wasn't "above" anything.
 
Check this comparison.

Monster vs Malachi (the same way of sing fast tracks):

[youtube]2GirWr92BTw[/youtube]

The voice is different because Jason voice in that track is processed and it´s has a bad audio quality.

But i only want to show you that he sings the fast tracks as Monster.

Mj never sung in that way.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

which he continued to do at live shows

and that (which songs he allowed or not allowed) wasn't the point..

In the end even for a song or two he said "yes you can make fun of me" , it's something that some artists never say (example Prince). What does this tell you?

to me it tells that he was a humble person that wasn't "above" anything.

Live shows, wow, there are many artists who allow themselves doing silly things live or not. (Does Jay Leno ring a bell?) It doesn't mean Michael approved.

Comparing authorized Weird Al and deliberately omitting to mention unauthorized fun and messing around, no matter what your point is, it makes it biased.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

which he continued to do at live shows

and that (which songs he allowed or not allowed) wasn't the point..

In the end even for a song or two he said "yes you can make fun of me" , it's something that some artists never say (example Prince). What does this tell you?

to me it tells that he was a humble person that wasn't "above" anything.

hmm... i thoroughly enjoy the werid al parodies. lol... :hysterical::ph34r:

i don't think weird al made fun of michael jackson. if anything, i feel weird al made fun of fat people (i hope no one get offended here).

anyway, that's not the point. no one is doubting michael's humbleness. we all know he liked having fun. we all know he never saw himself as above all.

we didn't have doubt he would record in a home studio. we have doubt on why his voice turned out like that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

hmm... i thoroughly enjoy the werid al parodies. lol... :hysterical::ph34r:

i don't think weird al made fun of michael jackson. if anything, i feel weird al made fun of fat people (i hope no one get offended here).

anyway, that's not the point. no one is doubting michael's humbleness. we all know he liked having fun. we all know he never saw himself as above all.

we didn't have doubt he would record in a home studio. we have doubt on why his voice turned out like that.

If actually it is his voice, which I seriously doubt.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex, no offense, but as you completely missed the key point of what we doubters have been saying, I am going to answer on the same level, e.g. by completely missing the point of what you said. Here is the answer, have fun (I really mean it, it's worth watching):

[youtube]PLxbM6r1cm8[/youtube]
 
One of the fundamental differences betwee the “believers” and the “doubters”, is that the doubters seem to hold michael Jackson to a higher standard, and have a higher opinion of him as a vocalist and a song writer, generally speaking.

Someone mentioned earlier that the doubters are putting mj on a pedestal (duh, welcome to the mjj FAN community) and we don’t take into account that he might have off days or sound different on a demo, etc.

Of COURSE mj has off days. Of course he sounds different live or on a demo than he does on a cd. But he was truly touched by god. That doesn’t change. he always, always, always sounds like michael Jackson, the blessed, gifted, once-in-a-lifetime superstar. That’s not an over-estimation, that’s just a fact.

I’ve listened to everything michael has ever graced with his voice and he has NEVER sounded like the voice on the cascio tracks. That’s the issue here.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

There is a line in Stay where he says "she was my baby" , it's at 2:17. That sounds identical to Michael Jackson.

That's the crazy part about all these songs, each one has certain lines that sound identical to MJ. Makes it really hard to have a firm decision.

Dont know if anyone will agree but I always find the 'Reporters stalking thes moooves' part of Breaking News to be pure MJ.
 
smooth_criminal05;3264813 said:
There is a line in Stay where he says "she was my baby" , it's at 2:17. That sounds identical to Michael Jackson.

That's the crazy part about all these songs, each one has certain lines that sound identical to MJ. Makes it really hard to have a firm decision.

And i just HAVE to repost this from what i wrote a while back. this is exactly what i'm talking about:


You can’t look at the songs in pieces. You have to look at them as a whole. If you hear a part where you say to yourself “that sounds like Michael, I can feel Michael in that line/verse” it’s not because it’s Michael Jackson. It’s not like Michael sings “you can look at them climbing out the bushes” and then an impostor is singing the line, “mama say mama got you in a zigzag” It’s just that the impostor (JM) can sound more like Michael on some lines than on others. I still don’t think there’s a single instant in Monster where he sounds identical to the real Michael, but sure, at some parts he sounds close. You can’t just pick out specific words, specific phrases, specific seconds, of the song and say those are Michael but the rest isn’t.

The song is a whole. It has to be taken as such. I mean, ANYONE could probably sound like Michael Jackson for a couple of words. But overall? It’s instantly obvious that it’s not him. Look at it this way, I’m sure you could isolate certain words or phrases from “Mamacita”, totally separate them from the song as a whole, and it would sound pretty similar to Michael Jackson.

Has anyone (Pentum?! ) tried to do that? Take some lines from a song we know is JM, and try to pick out certain parts that sound like Michael Jackson? It shouldn’t be too hard, since that’s JM’s main objective when he sings. But when you step back and look at the whole thing, it’s CLEARLY not Michael. It’s a macro/micro problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1qyHVlK5PI
This is a good example. In the JM song “Let Me Let Go” I would say that the part from 1:35 to 1:40 where he says “moves on the single scene” he sounds pretty close to Michael Jackson. Not identical, but pretty damn close. Does that mean that Michael Jackson came in for 5 seconds, recorded those vocals, and the rest was filled in with JM? Of course not. It just means that at certain moments, with certain phrases and certain words JM can do a better imitation than in other parts. Even the title of this Youtube clip: “Jason Malchi feat. Michael Jackson.” Really? What if Sony had released this track, exactly as is, with that title, “Jason Malachi, Let Me Let Go, feat Michael Jackson”? Would we be having this discussion? Would we think certain words/lines/sentences were Michael? Probably. It’s ridiculous.

Step back and look at this. Be honest with yourself. If there were ONE Cascio track I might (MIGHT) be able to believe that it was an unfinished demo that Michael had recorded 1 or 2 words/lines of, and they brought an impostor in to finish it out. Which would still be incredibly dishonest, by the way, since they said it was 100% MJ lead vocals. But that’s not the case. There are 12 tracks. From what we’ve heard so far, they all sound exactly the same. It seems far more likely to me that they’re 100% sung by JM.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not one word sounds like Michael Jackson on the Cascio songs. Not even one syllable.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

for fun

 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^um, lol. if there really are trolls in the thread, let's not let the cascios get a hold of this one. it'll be on michael version 2011.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^um, lol. if there really are trolls in the thread, let's not let the cascios get a hold of this one. it'll be on michael version 2011.

I wonder if there are. Sony have famously used underhanded tactics to promote their products before. Would they really stoop to having trolls entering online forums?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@azsummergirl, after reading your post again and giving it some thought, i'm convinced that these tracks are not genuine michael jackson songs.

before, i had doubts with KYHU and All I Need. i thought i heard michael in parts. now, i need to ask the questions. is it becasue the impersonator did a better job in those parts?

anyway, listening to a song should not be this scientific. i don't need a percentage calculation. if a impersonator is used to fill up the gaps, be it one gap or one hundred gaps, it's just wrong.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I wonder if there are. Sony have famously used underhanded tactics to promote their products before. Would they really stoop to having trolls entering online forums?

i wouldn't put it past them. would you?

Dont know if anyone will agree but I always find the 'Reporters stalking thes moooves' part of Breaking News to be pure MJ.

gonna have to totally disagree on that one. sorry. and again, this is like 4 words. can you really isolate 4 words like that?
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What about how he pronounces "Resddurraunt" in KYHU?

Is that the way Michael pronounces words when he sings?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@azsummergirl, after reading your post again and giving it some thought, i'm convinced that these tracks are not genuine michael jackson songs.

before, i had doubts with KYHU and All I Need. i thought i heard michael in parts. now, i need to ask the questions. is it becasue the impersonator did a better job in those parts?

anyway, listening to a song should not be this scientific. i don't need a percentage calculation. if a impersonator is used to fill up the gaps, be it one gap or one hundred gaps, it's just wrong.

haha...we're so good we even convince each other :lol:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I really like Whatzupwitu :(

:ph34r:
 
Anna;3264831 said:
Okay, so you think it's a believable explanation that you've been given as to why they sound like Malachi? Why they happen to sound almost exactly like Malachi? Even down to the vibrato and the snorts? And also at the same time sounding like no other MJ track ever heard by anyone ever?



I've never heard Malachi "snort", so I don't understand what exactly you're attempting to get at. The vibrato isn't the same, it's similar in some instances, but it isn't the same, to me. Listen to a Malachi song, and then listen to these songs, the duration of vibrato on The Cascio tracks progress more than anything Malachi has sung (some blame this on the editing, but whatever), on a song like KYHU and All I Need, they also sound more natural as opposed to the forced one Malachi uses. Now suppose I just forgot about all of that and said it doesn't make a difference, how would I still dispute his own testimony and claims, in saying that he had nothing to do with the songs? I personally, can't. :ph34r: (Awaits the "excuses" card.)

Now, like you, I'm open minded on this, and I do appreciate the effort being put in by Pentum and others. But it takes more than comparison video's, theories and assumptions to come to a final conclusion, especially when you consider the legal aspects of this thing. None of this would be taken seriously in a court of law, as nothing in this thread has been objective so far. And with Malachi's own denial claims, my feeling that Michael is on these songs, for the most part, it's quite difficult for me to believe otherwise. But as I've said before, I'm open to being proved wrong.


azsummergirl;3265113 said:
One of the fundamental differences betwee the “believers” and the “doubters”, is that the doubters seem to hold michael Jackson to a higher standard, and have a higher opinion of him as a vocalist and a song writer, generally speaking.

Someone mentioned earlier that the doubters are putting mj on a pedestal (duh, welcome to the mjj FAN community) and we don’t take into account that he might have off days or sound different on a demo, etc.

Of COURSE mj has off days. Of course he sounds different live or on a demo than he does on a cd. But he was truly touched by god. That doesn’t change. he always, always, always sounds like michael Jackson, the blessed, gifted, once-in-a-lifetime superstar. That’s not an over-estimation, that’s just a fact.

I’ve listened to everything michael has ever graced with his voice and he has NEVER sounded like the voice on the cascio tracks. That’s the issue here.

Someone can interpret this as a "fan vs. fan" thing, which is actually forbidden here, thought I'd point that out. But what exactly do you mean? I, nor does any other believer, feel as if Michael was this average singer, which I feel, you're trying to imply. I personally feel Michael will forever be the greatest singer/songwriter/performer that this world will ever see, he's my idol, at the same time I also know he was a human being who suffered the same faults as everyone else, he got sick, he lost/gained weight, he had emotions. For a long time I felt as if he was the second coming of Christ himself, part of me still believes this, but he aged, I pointed out before with the WMA 2006 video, which featured a falsetto that I feel is identical to that on KYHU, that Michael wasn't always 100%, and these songs were done merely a year and a half after he went through a trial that literally robbed a piece of his spirit, a piece of himself, from him. Because I feel it may be him on these records, that doesn't mean I hold him in the same regard as Justin Timberlake, Usher, or Justin Bieber.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have absolutely no evidence for this, and is therefore completely worthless to the debate, but I would bet my life that MJ singing when he's drugged up, with laryngitis, not really trying, on a tape recorder would still unmistakably sound like MJ.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I've never heard Malachi "snort", so I don't understand what exactly you're attempting to get at. The vibrato isn't the same, it's similar in some instances, but it isn't the same, to me. Listen to a Malachi song, and then listen to these songs, the duration of vibrato on The Cascio tracks progress more than anything Malachi has sung (some blame this on the editing, but whatever), on a song like KYHU and All I Need, they also sound more natural as opposed to the forced one Malachi uses. Now suppose I just forgot about all of that and said it doesn't make a difference, how would I still dispute his own testimony and claims, in saying that he had nothing to do with the songs? I personally, can't. :ph34r: (Awaits the "excuses" card.)

Now, like you, I'm open minded on this, and I do appreciate the effort being put in by Pentum and others. But it takes more than comparison video's, theories and assumptions to come to a final conclusion, especially when you consider the legal aspects of this thing. None of this would be taken seriously in a court of law, as nothing in this thread has been objective so far. And with Malachi's own denial claims, my feeling that Michael is on these songs, for the most part, it's quite difficult for me to believe otherwise. But as I've said before, I'm open to being proved wrong.

I just have a question. I'm not trying to push any buttons here (I'll leave that to Eddie), but I remember before, and correct me if I'm wrong, you said that if Jason Malachi comes out and says it's him on these tracks, you'd believe it. If you believe that, how can you say you feel MJ on these songs, and attribute to him sounding different to all of the excuses we've been fed? On top of this, you're still not convinced the voices are IDENTICAL in the audio comparisons.

You say that part of the reason you believe it's Michael on the tracks is because Malachi denied that he sung any word on these songs. You know OF COURSE he's going to deny. So I don't understand how this has swayed your belief.

If you haven't heard the 'snort' comparison, you really should listen to it. There is absolutely no way that it's a mere coincidence.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think AnnieRUOkay is confused.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This is hilarious! :hysterical:

I love it too, especially the strawberry that faints from crotch glitter :p is priceless
(vocals are Kipp Lennon btw).

edit : Enjoy Michael Jackstone (again Kipp Lennon singing)



if anyone wonders about Kipp Lennon's actual voice



Kipp Lennon mimicking Elvis



4 minute mark for I want you back

 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I love it too, especially the strawberry that faints from crotch glitter :p is priceless
(vocals are Kipp Lennon btw).

edit : Enjoy Michael Jackstone (again Kipp Lennon singing)



if anyone wonders about Kipp Lennon's actual voice



Kipp Lennon mimicking Elvis


that fainting strawberry is so me... :ph34r:

the flinstone clip is so funny. omg, the moon walk. michael would have loved it. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

The ending credit said Just Say No performed by LaToya Jackson... Poor LaToya... :rofl:

PS: Ivy, you just made my day. I love the clips. They are so cute...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

that fainting strawberry is so me... :ph34r:

the flinstone clip is so funny. omg, the moon walk. michael would have loved it. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

The ending credit said Just Say No performed by LaToya Jackson... Poor LaToya... :rofl:

PS: Ivy, you just made my day. I love the clips. They are so cute...

those all are stuff that's approved by Michael.

"just say no" is actually a La Toya song from her album that she let this flintstones episode use (see below).

Michael's song is credited as "Beat it" and they say that they only got the music from it. The lyrics are new and Kipp Lennon is the one that sings it.

 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ oh okay... latoya's voice is very similar to janet's...

just watched that flintstone clip again... aww... so cute... :D
 
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