Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It would be a magical day the day the truth came out for certain.

Fortunately the fans doubts are still strong as ever and these questions will always be raised until the day it does come out.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm going to do some research on sound forensics. It's possible us fans here could put it to rest by literally going out and finding an analyzer and running these songs through the computer.

so far the only one who has done it is Sony.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Your grandpa let you back on the computer? :lol: I thought you had minutes left...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think the cascio's basically conned Sony, and sony knew they'd been tricked, so felt they had to use the songs to recover the money they spent buying them.

edit it's only an idea, run's and hides, don't rip me to shreads!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

WTF MJultimatemusiclegen!!! Yeah you, you better hide that was so stupid what you just said. :lol: j/k

Wow Eddie is one good con man. He's like "Ca-ching, an' thats how ya do it, babe. Nice." What a smooth criminal LOL :lol:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

WTF MJultimatemusiclegen!!! Yeah you, you better hide that was so stupid what you just said. :lol: j/k

Wow Eddie is one good con man. He's like "Ca-ching, an' thats how ya do it, babe. Nice." What a smooth criminal LOL :lol:

:p i just felt like i had to put it out there aha. This whole thing is so crazy :( we all just wanna hear MJ songs by MJ
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe Michael hated Sony so much that he recorded fake songs with Eddie so that when he passed away and Sony demanded Eddie to hand them over he could give them fakes while the real material is hidden. Yes, the conspiracy just got even more twisted. :eek:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael's contract did not end officially in 2002. His contract was not due to expire until 2006!
Michael extracted himself early from contract (yet owed two albums with new material).
Michael felt that SONY wanted to acquire the ATV/SONY catalog.

What are you basing this stuff on? Michael's contract with Sony expired December 2002 and he was thereafter able to do business in regards to music contracts well before the 2006 deal with 2Seas. He would not legally have been able to do this if he was still contracted to Sony. Besides, the 1991 deal was not solely dependent on X number of albums in order to fulfil it - it was a deal that went further than music. The very least that had to be done was for any number of projects released to generate approx. $1billion which was achieved in various ways with Dangerous and HIStory eras. If the 1991 deal was not fulfilled, MJ could not walk away without Sony taking him to court - which also means he couldn't think about making deals with other companies.

Looks like you really don't know about Michael's contract regarding music after he left Sony in 2002. Put it this way, MJJProductions was paid $3million by them even though nothing was fulfilled and contract was terminated by all parties concerned. Wee clue - begins with the letter 'T'. As i said earlier, it's not widely known amongst a lot of fans.

As far as THRILLER 25 is concerned, Bain liased between Michael and SONY. No contract was required, nor was it implied anywhere. It was just a simple deal.

This is nonsense - Sony knew the value of Michael Jackson as an artist and would always seek a written contract which is absolutely legally binding. Michael was also the type to insist on a written contract also and had the clauses triple checked after that experience of being ripped off during the Destiny tour.

I'm going to do some research on sound forensics. It's possible us fans here could put it to rest by literally going out and finding an analyzer and running these songs through the computer.

so far the only one who has done it is Sony.

Not quite - the MJ Estate had the songs analysed and Sony ordered one on their own. That's why Howard mentioned two tests - first from the Estate and then from Sony Music who used someone else.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe Michael hated Sony so much that he recorded fake songs with Eddie so that when he passed away and Sony demanded Eddie to hand them over he could give them fakes while the real material is hidden. Yes, the conspiracy just got even more twisted. :eek:

One of these crazy solutions is probably the real answer aha. But there is so many possibilities. It's times like these i really really really miss Michael. I know we all do :( these songs have cause damage to the fans that still hasn't fully healed, remember the mass banning and chaos that occured on here when they first came.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Your grandpa let you back on the computer? :lol: I thought you had minutes left...
yeah but I'm using his computer now. I was trying to install those programs on my computer while I could have it hooked up to his internet.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What are you basing this stuff on? Michael's contract with Sony expired December 2002 and he was thereafter able to do business in regards to music contracts well before the 2006 deal with 2Seas. He would not legally have been able to do this if he was still contracted to Sony. Besides, the 1991 deal was not solely dependent on X number of albums in order to fulfil it - it was a deal that went further than music. The very least that had to be done was for any number of projects released to generate approx. $1billion which was achieved in various ways with Dangerous and HIStory eras. If the 1991 deal was not fulfilled, MJ could not walk away without Sony taking him to court - which also means he couldn't think about making deals with other companies.

Looks like you really don't know about Michael's contract regarding music after he left Sony in 2002. Put it this way, MJJProductions was paid $3million by them even though nothing was fulfilled and contract was terminated by all parties concerned. Wee clue - begins with the letter 'T'. As i said earlier, it's not widely known amongst a lot of fans.



This is nonsense - Sony knew the value of Michael Jackson as an artist and would always seek a written contract which is absolutely legally binding. Michael was also the type to insist on a written contract also and had the clauses triple checked after that experience of being ripped off during the Destiny tour.



Not quite - the MJ Estate had the songs analysed and Sony ordered one on their own. That's why Howard mentioned two tests - first from the Estate and then from Sony Music who used someone else.
we still need an independant test not done by anybody who makes profit off of the album though.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

One of these crazy solutions is probably the real answer aha. But there is so many possibilities. It's times like these i really really really miss Michael. I know we all do :( these songs have cause damage to the fans that still hasn't fully healed, remember the mass banning and chaos that occured on here when they first came.


:cry:

instead of filling up the void, this album just makes his absence more apparent.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Group hug. :hug:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have to admit Malachi's room 2 breathe sounds extremely simmilair to the cascio tracks. really simmilair.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Some Teddy Riley tweets for easy access if you don't want to read through his twitter.

Recorded 2000Watts in Va. Michael naturally have a low voice. He can speak low range. The reason why he talks high. His years of vocal coaches such as Seth Riggs, advises him to speak in a higher range for so that his voice doesn't change. People don't know, Michael vocally can sing anything low or high range. That's what make him the greatest. The answer to the question is no his voice wasn't pitched on 2000 Watts.

You will see who really knows MJ the artist. His professors, friend who didn't work on this lp. So, its not about money to them its about what is truth.

Ma, he didn't have a problem with Sony...His problem was with Tommy Mattola.

I was called on this project by the estate, Sony, and the family co signed it. These songs are created by the Cascios. I did not write the Songs, I was called in to mix and finish what I was given, Without compensation only cause of Michael. Only cause of Michael and the jackson family, who felt I should be on the project, cause of my relationship with Michael. All of the producer that worked on this project got paid before they worked. At the last minute of working on this project. These issue about MJ vocals not being real came into par. The vocal yes I feel they are MJ vox...they are very processed. The vocals I was given to me from the Cascios was all I had to work with. I can't and no one can prove anything but MJ. I've worked with MJ 4 times...we spent 1 yr 2, months together working on dangerous, 6 months on history, 2 months on Adam family. 6-8 months on invincible...all of these projects in the pass 20 yrs. Michael is not hear to voice himself and let you know the truth. I asked the company to bring in everyone. Professionals, friends, family, and the people who worked with Michael many year and before me. Everyone said it is Michael except the family who says its not because there's no proof. All I'm gonna say here is that I believe its MJ. The truth of this of it all no one knows be MJ and god knows. I have nothing more to say and I can't prove anything...I did not original produce his vocals nor these songs..I remix, made the tracks different from what they had which would have been unacceptable.

Yes i did it with a clear conscience. It is mj and i'm telling everyone. I don't care what anyone say about me.

We have fbi is on this with a forensic musicolegist. You will see if it goes that far..

Michael did so much for so many people, including family. He pulled away from them all, except the true ones. This is about to get ugly!!

James is backgrounds only!!! None of the leads. It's all mj very processed and it is mj. Truth!!

Yes it is michael. James is only on the chorus. I have james tracks. No one is speaking up because the truth hurts only mj..i have nothing to lose telling the truth...trust it is mj. Yes the f-ing cascios processed the voice. Still is michael. The oohs, vocal attacks, fxs are samples to finish the songs. I'm only supporting him no one else

Jason can't sing close to michael if he tried his damn hardest.

Of course it's not the same cause he's not here to fix it. Cascios had to do processing or it wld not sound this presentable.

Cory produce and manage taryll. Connection there...ask why he don't said that about sony? Read btw lines

Cory is a lie and when he came to my session he was the only one on taryll's side. The people who were in that room didn't want to argue and go back and forth with taryll who spoke the whole session. What i said in that meeting was it don't make me no difference whether these songs get use or not. Its the estates decision. We let taryll talk cause he was very hostile in the meeting. We let him tlk as we nod our heads cause you can't tell an adamant person anything.

They came together prep to convince everyone and it didn't work.

I wasn't gonna take the project but when I got a second call awaring me about the difficulty they were having meeting their deadline I took the position in the name of Michael not anyone else

You know people are so F-ing anal. If people can think Elvis is still alive why the F#*@ I cant think Michael is still alive. This is not a hoax BS, it a belief. People are anal. It's what I can believe in my heart. Duh

Jason is not on any of these song so pls save what you're saying or leave my page.

When a family member talks about their uncle what would you do...I never agreed with him. I let him continue to talk. He was 86 from the studio til his grandma spoke to the estate and I had 2 verified. We can go on with the truth but ill stop here. I am the one that asked 4 Taryll to be on Hollywood. If MJ vox were not real why did he participate on the lp? I can go on with tons...message to Taryll pls stop while he's ahead.

Remember this Taryll was my friend. We shared the same management. When I stood up for MJ, that chick resigned and took Taryll's side, which is cool. I know god got my back.I stay with the fan better known to me as my friend. When I was getting hated on cause I stood up for the truth. He stop being my friend cause of this. We could've discuss this. This is not what you do to a friend. I guess I was being used by him and his manager who left me hanging 4 him. Now I have good management...I stand 4 the truth.

Pls god hld me bk. He knows how he was blabbering him mouth about MJ in front of everyone about how much he know his uncle. And how we're gonna get sued. He's Not right and he needs to move on and pursue his career. This is what people will remember you as. Why didn't he sued like he said? Cause he's in denial...and I truly understand why, which is why I can't go on to tell the truth about him. God bless and your future endeavors T.

All I did was listen to him blabbering him mouth about what he don't really know about his own uncle. Let the truth be told. Management consistently inquired about him going to see and talk to him uncle and he didn't. Now, leave me alone b4 it gets worse.

The fact is they're heavily processed...meaning Mj vox were melodyne heavy. Melodyne is much like autotune.

Do this, listen to 2000watts and listen to the Cascios. I assure you, the vocals are Mj. They're very processed.

Based on the out takes that i've heard i can bet my life on everything i'm saying.

I asked him to be on it. He did it...now would you be on an lp if you know its not your uncle?

They do have a few. I witness myself at their home. And paperwork of mj writing, text msg from him msging eddie, and more.

So why is he on it? Why do i have a vocal of taryll singing hollywood cuz he want his vocal to be the remix for mj?

I did the talk first but i wanted to see if he would do it. Which proves its not about mj vox.

No he wasn't at the meeting cuz it was bs. They all know its mj. They just have a problem with the cascios being heavily involved.

Q - Hey Teddy, can you clear up about 2000 watts. You said this is MJ singing low with out being pitched down. Has *anything* been done to the vocal, it seems like there is an effect on it. It's exciting to hear him sing that low if, true.
A- The only effect I put on him vocal after he sung it was the yamaha symphonic preset.

Q- Did you & MJ sample a lion's rawrr for Monster?? I heard it at the end of the song. :)
A -Yes those are the lion sound we talked about that he made us go out and sample.

Q- I love 'Michael'. Did you have to copy vocal arrangements to complete the songs? Or were vocals completed by Michael himself?
A- No MJ did them all himself

Q- Why was mixed with Michael's voice digitally? A- I needed to be...there were songs that needed lots processing and some that needed little.

Do your research and then come back. Check who his real family is and who he comfy to, who he embraced the most and you'll see

Ma I don't now based on what's going on. I don't think my mix for Hollywood will be used. I have a hater in the mix. I thank MJ for the opportunity to be on this lp. Mother Jackson as well. I am still here for the fam.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Wow!!! Amazing post, thank you ivy!!! Interesting to read those. I hadn't read them before.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks Ivy. I just don't understand why Teddy asked fans to compare the Cascio tracks to 2000 Watts. Sigh...

Just because Michael sang low doesn't mean he sounded "different". We all know Michael had a wide vocal range. Honestly, I've never ever had doubt as to whether 2000 Watts was Michael or not.

And, I'm eager to see those paperworks written by Michael in the Casio house.

Teddy also mentioned about the outtakes. However, Taryll was told the outtakes are destroyed. So, what is it? Outtakes or no outtakes?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe the outtakes are additional parts to the songs, talking in between, or first hand evidence that Teddy has seen personally?

There's always the possibility that the Cascio's DO have evidence and are just purposely holding out on it at this time.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe the outtakes are additional parts to the songs, talking in between, or first hand evidence that Teddy has seen personally?

There's always the possibility that the Cascio's DO have evidence and are just purposely holding out on it at this time.

According to Cory, both Taryll and Cory asked for the outtakes and the worktapes, they were told that Michael instructed Eddie to destroy the outtakes.

This has become a "he said, she said" situation.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Honestly, no amount of "proof" is going to change people's minds, in my opinion. Like Teddy said, you can't tell an adamant person anything, whether their belief is right or wrong.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks Ivy. I just don't understand why Teddy asked fans to compare the Cascio tracks to 2000 Watts. Sigh...

I think his point is (if you read his explanation about 2000 watts first) - 2000 watts sound that different without processing and it's normal for the Cascio songs to sound different with all that processing. And/or he's making the point that Michael could sound different - if he wants - without any processing.

And, I'm eager to see those paperworks written by Michael in the Casio house.

me too

Teddy also mentioned about the outtakes. However, Taryll was told the outtakes are destroyed. So, what is it? Outtakes or no outtakes?

Maybe the outtakes are additional parts to the songs, talking in between, or first hand evidence that Teddy has seen personally?

There's always the possibility that the Cascio's DO have evidence and are just purposely holding out on it at this time.

I think the "outtakes" are the "work tapes" that RF had been mentioning. The ones they are talking about the songs etc. Or they are the raw vocal tracks.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think his point is (if you read his explanation about 2000 watts first) - 2000 watts sound that different without processing and it's normal for the Cascio songs to sound different with all that processing. And/or he's making the point that Michael could sound different - if he wants - without any processing.

But, to me, 2000 Watts doesn't sound different. It sounds deeper.

On a side note, could someone tweet Teddy and ask him whether he knew the lyrics of 2000 Watts is about sex? :smilerolleyes:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Honestly, no amount of "proof" is going to change people's minds, in my opinion. Like Teddy said, you can't tell an adamant person anything, whether their belief is right or wrong.

I don't know... it changed yours didn't it?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Honestly, no amount of "proof" is going to change people's minds, in my opinion. Like Teddy said, you can't tell an adamant person anything, whether their belief is right or wrong.
Wrong, this happened yesterday after listening to KYHU VS R2B:
holy c**p guys. so sorry. jason malachi IS really singing those tracks. he sounds exactly the same....dont know what to think :(
He was always so sure it was Michael on the songs.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe the outtakes are additional parts to the songs, talking in between, or first hand evidence that Teddy has seen personally?

There's always the possibility that the Cascio's DO have evidence and are just purposely holding out on it at this time.

Why would they do that? To further kill their own credibility? To further kill sales of an album they have a financial interest in? Why would they do that?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Why would they do that? To further kill their own credibility? To further kill sales of an album they have a financial interest in? Why would they do that?

Maybe they don't have a financial interest in :scratch:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Wrong, this happened yesterday after listening to KYHU VS R2B:

He was always so sure it was Michael on the songs.

ah, but remember, this isn't 'proof' :smilerolleyes:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks Ivy. I just don't understand why Teddy asked fans to compare the Cascio tracks to 2000 Watts. Sigh...

Just because Michael sang low doesn't mean he sounded "different". We all know Michael had a wide vocal range. Honestly, I've never ever had doubt as to whether 2000 Watts was Michael or not.


I know what you are saying. I don't know how we can prove these people that it's not the vocal register that sounds different to us, it is the complete style, the speech, the energy...

And I am sorry but I am hardly to believe that Michael's voice on 2000 Watts is not processed and that it is heavily processed on these new tracks. It's b.s. So heavily processed the speech mannerism is changed, pronunciation, style? And exactly on THESE three songs? Just these three songs? Why is it not so with Best Of Joy or Another Day for example?

I really want to believe that it is Michael singing on Monster, KYHU and BN, but all of these statements add up to the doubt for me. Especially the stuff that Eddie Cascio says - bad equipment, shower, PVC pipe... I don't care about all that stuff, Michael Jackson has the most f'ing distinguishable voice ever, and no circumstances could ever change that.

Besides, the things that people would do for money today..........
 
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