Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't McClain make mixes on the songs before they went with Teddy's mixes? I'd love to hear those for the novelty of it.

Seriously, why doesn't somebody contact the Estate to get this sorted out!?

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm not going to comment on the motive talk above because that's a dead end.

One thing which has occurred to me though: With the legit songs there has been evidence to show of MJ's involvement such as his handwritten lyrics. With the Cascio songs, however, there is NO evidence. To attempt to mitigate against this they released a statement which was effectively testimonials. Nothing tangible though, despite the fact they claim to have hired audio forensics.

So here's the question: If they are so concerned about what the fans think (and the numerous fan clubs who have protested these songs is well-documented), why would they go ahead and hide the detailed findings of these audiologists? Why would they not wish to put fans' minds at rest by showing the results, or even describing the processing that took place, or letting us hear the raw vocals? - This is key.

With the legit songs, they're completely open. With the questionable songs, it's nothing but testimonial. No opportunity to let the fans assess the evidence. It stinks.

Every logical piece of reasoning points to the same thing.

According to Teddy, there is a handwritten note, in regards to Monster, but again, it has yet to be shown anywhere.

 

[JacksonMan]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Do you know how to use Google? It's quite the helpful resource. Have you typed your question in there? I think you're honestly going to have to find it yourself there, not looking like a crazy person interrupting peoples discussion with the most random question...

time's up for me. thanks a lot MJJ community.

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

According to Teddy, there is a handwritten note, in regards to Monster, but again, it has yet to be shown anywhere.

Does it not strike you as odd that for songs for which there is no controversy, handwritten notes will be shown, but for the Cascio songs there's nothing? Quite literally, nothing. The ways the Cascio songs and non-Cascio songs have been treated, with regards to showing the background to them, is quite different.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't McClain make mixes on the songs before they went with Teddy's mixes? I'd love to hear those for the novelty of it.

Seriously, why doesn't somebody contact the Estate to get this sorted out!?

Sony has been contacted and receives complaints on their site on a daily basis -- no reaction

The estate has been contacted -- no reaction

Seth Riggs has been contacted -- no reaction

...

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well, where is the note about "Hold My Hand"? Or "(I Like) The Way You Love Me"? Or "Behind the Mask"? Or "(I Can't Make It) Another Day"? In all fairness, the only notes that I can think of off the top of my head that were in the booklet and the iTunes LP were "Hollywood Tonight" and "Best of Joy". The others were just about his general philosophy.

@Bumper, is that by anyone in the "inner circle" of the Estate i.e. someone like Gaz or just the general public?

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

time's up for me. thanks a lot MJJ community.

Hey, btw, on the topic of Monster and that handwritten note, I don't recall, but did 50 cent mention anything about Michael wanting him to be on the song in the making of? Anyone remember that? If what Teddy says is true, don't you think 50 Cent would say, 'Mike actually had written down that he wanted me to be on the track.'

Perhaps he did, I don't know! I did find that fascinating, though. If so, Michael could see the future pretty well lol!

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The production doesn't seem as hip as the album version, though, does it? Especially all those claps. It feels like Teddy polished it up a bit.

@Alec: Ah, I see. But may I ask, how do you know it was the acapella he heard? I thought he said he just heard an early version. Maybe I'm wrong. Is that why the acapella leaked?

Yes, it is different. My guess is that he build the song around whatever was received from Angelikson (Cascio) - be it an a capella track or some demo instrumentals - and after he completed the initial version, he made it sound modern and more interesting. Which is the version that ended up on "Michael".

Re Breaking News: He himself stated that all there was for BN was an a capella track - it's on his twitter, posted sometime in November. Isn't that funny that Michael recorded a whole song a capella without even the simplest drum machine or piano in the background?

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well, where is the note about "Hold My Hand"? Or "(I Like) The Way You Love Me"? Or "Behind the Mask"? Or "(I Can't Make It) Another Day"? In all fairness, the only notes that I can think of off the top of my head that were in the booklet and the iTunes LP were "Hollywood Tonight" and "Best of Joy". The others were just about his general philosophy.

@Bumper, is that by anyone in the "inner circle" of the Estate i.e. someone like Gaz or just the general public?

It doesn't have to be notes - just ANY evidence. With all of those songs there is evidence of involvment. Plus they sound like MJ - or let me rephrase - all fans are confident they are MJ.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Aniram, all that was said is that 50 Cent's DJ said to him that MJ wanted to work with him on a track. That happened before his death.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well, where is the note about "Hold My Hand"? Or "(I Like) The Way You Love Me"? Or "Behind the Mask"? Or "(I Can't Make It) Another Day"? In all fairness, the only notes that I can think of off the top of my head that were in the booklet and the iTunes LP were "Hollywood Tonight" and "Best of Joy". The others were just about his general philosophy.

@Bumper, is that by anyone in the "inner circle" of the Estate i.e. someone like Gaz or just the general public?

Many fans from this forum posted the letters they wrote. None of .them got any response

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

According to Teddy, there is a handwritten note, in regards to Monster, but again, it has yet to be shown anywhere.

Not accurate. Teddy said Michael had written down that he wanted to work with 50 Cent. NEVER EVER once did he say that there was a handwritten note for Monster. He suggested that, but never directly said it was for that particular song.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Funny, I remember reading on some reviews that people believed that "Behind the Mask", "Best of Joy" and "Hollywood Tonight" were fake! Funny world we live in, huh? Paranoia is a weird thing...

Yeah, I tried writing to Branca via email and never got a reply, despite being very courteous. Oh, well... But shouldn't the staff cater to this? Someone who knows the Estate, like Gaz?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Funny, I remember reading on some reviews that people believed that "Behind the Mask", "Best of Joy" and "Hollywood Tonight" were fake! Funny world we live in, huh? Paranoia is a weird thing...

Yeah, I tried writing to Branca via email and never got a reply, despite being very courteous. Oh, well... But shouldn't the staff cater to this? Someone who knows the Estate, like Gaz?

Lol, that is a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinny minority of people who don't know Michael's voice at all.

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Fair enough.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, it was still pretty hilarious though. In fact, someone on here said something like this:

"Hollywood Tonight and Breaking News sound the same but Hollywood Tonight is real and Breaking News fake"

Little things like that make me laugh in times like this.

@kopwatcher, I was joking, exaggerating when I told you about people giving reviews on sites like Amazon etc. I didn't mean it in a serious way,

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I see, Jesta. Thank you... Interesting. Teddy does seems a bit exaggerating sometimes, to me. However, I think he's kind of irrelevant to all this.

There will probably be the release of more Cascio tracks in the future and so hopefully Eddie will have to answer for them. I am very curious to what they sound like and if there will be a definitive one that gives enough proof to end this debate.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, I doubt that apart from the 5 that have leaked, and possible "Water" and "Burn 2 Nite", none of the other songs have been horribly processed to remove any unwanted artifacts in the audio.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I see, Jesta. Thank you... Interesting. Teddy does seems a bit exaggerating sometimes, to me. However, I think he's kind of irrelevant to all this.

There will probably be the release of more Cascio tracks in the future and so hopefully Eddie will have to answer for them. I am very curious to what they sound like and if there will be a definitive one that gives enough proof to end this debate.

Listen to "STAY" and you'll hear how fake it is.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

True, but there might be something more, like an aggressiveness to his voice that many of the fans complain is missing in the Cascio tracks.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

as I'm going jogging in a min and don't feel like repeating myself for the 100th time and again writing what I already have in the last few months, I'd like to repost what TPIMaster from MaxJax has written today. Sums up the whole situation quite well.

My priority in keeping discussion going on these tracks (which includes posting comparisons with JM, pointing out holes in logic, etc) is so that the buzz generated will get the Cascios to post any proof they have of Michael recording these tracks. That it will get them to set the record straight and prove to us fans that don't believe it's him that we are wrong. I would love that, I would love to be able to say that every single track on MICHAEL contains lead vocals by him and actually believe it with all my heart. But it's been months since this controversy started and all we've gotten is "It is Michael, he sang and I pushed the buttons", which is even less "proof" than these comparison vids are, even with it coming from the "source".

Every single time the Cascios had the chance to present evidence (the Oprah special, the "Making of" special), they didn't. With the voice sounding totally unlike Michael to these ears, I've drawn my conclusions. I'm following my beliefs. Do I regard these comparisons as proof JM sang the tracks? No, but they provide an explanation, the songs being sung by an impersonator (and a poor one too, in my opinion) explains more about why they sound off than whatever argument Eddie Cascio has provided. And that includes recording in the shower or through a PVC pipe (as those do NOT explain a thing about why the voice doesn't sound like Michael).

It's become clear to me that they will never provide any proof that this is Michael and always keep up what I think is a big lie. (Prove me wrong on that one, Eddie.) So I'm also keeping this buzz going for another reason. If the buzz generated does not get them to admit it's not Michael singing, at least I hope it'll be a wake up call for the Estate that we do not want any more Cascio tracks on future albums unless the fan community heard them beforehand and there's a solid consensus within that fan community that it is Michael. Would that work, you ask? Sure it would. We still hardly know any details on "Slave to the Rhythm" and I don't think anyone has doubted the vocals on that track are Michael's.

But if the Estate isn't willing to do that, I'd just have to go with no more Cascio tracks on future Michael Jackson albums. Ever. If some of those tracks are sung by Michael, that's too bad then.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Good post, Alec.

Very legitimate concerns that I pray will be answered soon...

I have always understood the doubters side very well, I just still don't know what to make of all this. Keeping an open mind and not letting it get me too worked up...

Eddie really needs to do the fans justice here. This controversy is terribly upsetting and seems completely unnecessary.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Exactly. I'm sure he hasn't worked 6-8 songs that weren't considered for the album, why not release snippets of those to show that the batch did have all of this stuff that is implied.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I also want to be proven wrong. I just wonder how.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Unfortunately, my gut tells me it may never happen, and that makes me feel sick.

It almost seems like, if this is all true, and an impostor sang these, it was definitely done on purpose to divide the true Michael Jackson fans and make them look crazy or SOMETHING to divide the fanbase.

That would HAVE to be one of the purposes to fake these songs, because it's not like they are amazing songs... They're kind of average and the vocals are heavily processed...

Either that or Eddie was so desperate to get his name out there or WANTED his own Michael Jackson tracks so badly that he faked them and left these little clues all over the place.

It's definitely mind-boggling to me when I think about all of this and why it has turned out this way. Is it mind-boggling to anyone else? I mean, wow, what a terrible way to handle this album, in my opinion. So disappointing and unfortunate that we can't be celebrating right now and instead are upset and discussing this in circles.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think that if they wanted to fake songs, they would make the lyrics so much better, to make people think that the vocals weren't up to scratch, but the lyrics were genius. I agree, Eddie's actions in this whole thing have been puzzling, to say the least.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

He seems like totally clueless and happy. He might think the controversy is helping the album sell. Maybe someone told him, hey don't worry about it, the controversy is good because it fuels the fire or something and he's like, oh yes!

Meanwhile, we're here ripping out our hair and pulling our ears off.

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Those of us who are sure it's no way MJ, say that we'd love to be proven wrong, but we believe deep down that proof is never going to come. Sony may have been behind this, but I think his family have let him down. How could they not have put up more of a fight? Even if they'd taken it to court, lost, and bankrupted themselves at least they'd have tried for him. They're a huge family - could they not have pooled their resources? Maybe they let it go for the sake of the other 7 songs. It's just so disappointing.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Great post Alec, great to read the poster from Maxjax. Nice to know there are other fans out there that speak my language The comparison videos destroy any 'evidence' the Cascio's have produced. Absolutely.

 

[MusicMan26]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That's what I'm thinking too, that we may never get any proof. We can hope though. I just feel that Sony knows that since they're such a big company they can get away with it (and are). And as long as they think that, they may do the same with future albums. It amazes me that they are able to do this.

And unfortunately a lot of us don't really have the resources to go to court about it.