Michael - The Great Album Debate

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

did you start from a neutral perspective and evaluate any new theories/ explanations again from a neutral perspective?

I heard the songs. They sounded absolutely nothing like Michael Jackson. They still sound absolutely nothing like Michael Jackson. What theory is there to hear about when the vocalist is clearly not Michael Jackson?

It's not Barry White. Why? Because it doesn't sound like Barry White. It's also not Michael Jackson. Why? Because it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson. The greatest vocalist of the pop-era.

Theories? Explanations? Nothing in the world will make me believe that the most talented singer of all time could sing like a complete and utter amateur.

If you want to believe that, be my guest. But don't tell me I'm biased. If it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson there's probably a preeeeeeeeetty good reason why...

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have found a very few parts which sounds like Michael, but not enough to make an comparison video that could hold for your "side".

Again, when I say sounds like Michael and not, it's always my opinion. To me, the songs doesn't sound like Michael but Jason. It's kind of hard for me to spot something that really sounds like Michael but believe me, I've tried. I also know what Jason is capable of. I've listened to all of his stuff + unleaked stuff A LOT. I know his voice, so when people go "Jason could never pull that off", my answer would be "yes he could".

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I wrote over and over again that the first time I heard Breaking News streaming that I thought parts to be Michael and parts not to be him and the only thing that I didn't know whether those parts aren't him was legit (supporting vocals) or not (impostor). (Check my posts that I wrote I was "torn", it's in the archives) I also wrote over and over again that to me Jason is way overrrated and that during a song he might song briefly like Michael but fails to do so in the long run. That's what my ears heard and that didn't change due to any information coming from anybody. If you read things written you would have known this already.

For me the "legit" supporting vocals become "illegit" when I have doubt in who I'm listening to. I'm not talking about background vocals. I'm talking about the lead vocals - the one should feature predominantly Michael Jackson's.

Legally speaking, the supporting vocals are "legit" because the vocalist(s) is/are credited. Does it make me feel better though? No. To me, it's just Sony's CYA effort.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson there's probably a preeeeeeeeetty good reason why...

and how do you explain that to some people and musicians worked with Michael it sounds like Michael? Why those people hear Michael? What's the "pretty good reason" for that? (See you act like those group of people do not exist and how can you argue that you are not biased when you completely ignore that group of people).

that you are the superior human being with the supersonic ears that cannot be wrong and the rest of us are inferior human beings that are deaf and has shady motives?

I have found a very few parts which sounds like Michael, but not enough to make an comparison video that could hold for your "side".

My point wasn't about proving anything for any side. It was allowing people to come to their own conclusions rather than being bombarded with your perspective of "I know it's Jason".

It's biased for us too

which part of "WE ALL" are biased , you didn't understand? I'm saying everyone here is biased whether they are a believer or doubter. that includes you and as well as me.

1. 80% of the replies in this forum are made up of people who think it's Michael?

both sides have posts. it wouldn't be a discussion with one side

2. Why Oprah not just have the Cascios on her show, ask Lenny and Akon to be on there too, that would make everything fair huh?

ask oprah and how would Lenny or Akon make any difference? their songs aren't the ones questioned and they offered nothing in that controversy. or are you meaning invite Jacksons? that I would agree with.

3. Why can't believers come up with an even amount of comparison videos to challenge us with?

I wrote this didn't I? Give me a) low quality demo/guide vocals b) recorded in a basic basement studio c) with unprofessional people d) that are heavily processed and I'll do the comparison videos.

It's unfair to us for you to claim how right you are but not even try and challenge us with anything.

where did I claim to be absolutely "right"? read my posts and you'll see me saying that "I might be wrong". I do have an opinion but I do not reject the possibility of other opinions and me being wrong.

 

[Mikaeel101]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

which part of "WE ALL" are biased , you didn't understand? I'm saying everyone here is biased whether they are a believer or doubter. that includes you and as well as me.

Okay I missed that part, my apologize.

ask oprah and how would Lenny or Akon make any difference? their songs aren't the ones questioned and they offered nothing in that controversy. or are you meaning invite Jacksons? that I would agree with.

Works for me.

Get the Jacksons on the show and ask them why they believe the vocals aren't Michael's, then everything would be fair.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and how do you explain that to some people and musicians worked with Michael it sounds like Michael? Why those people hear Michael? What's the "pretty good reason" for that? (See you act like those group of people do not exist and how can you argue that you are not biased when you completely ignore that group of people).

that you are the superior human being with the supersonic ears that cannot be wrong and the rest of us are inferior human beings that are deaf and has shady motives?

What are you even talking about? Does it sound like Michael Jackson to you? That's all. Does it? Yes or no?

If it doesn't, does Teddy Riley's assertions make the audio clearer to you? Because the audio stays the same to me. And it still sounds nothing like Michael Jackson.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and how do you explain that to some people and musicians worked with Michael it sounds like Michael? Why those people hear Michael? What's the "pretty good reason" for that? (See you act like those group of people do not exist and how can you argue that you are not biased when you completely ignore that group of people).

that you are the superior human being with the supersonic ears that cannot be wrong and the rest of us are inferior human beings that are deaf and has shady motives?

Did the musicians listen to the final album version of the songs? Did they listen to the whole song, or just one verse? There are also other groups of musicians (Rodney Jerkins and Jennifer Battens) who said the contrary.

The information I got from the official statement released by the Estate is as filmsy as one can get. I'd rather trust my own instinct than that statement.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Theories? Explanations? Nothing in the world will make me believe that the most talented singer of all time could sing like a complete and utter amateur.

If you want to believe that, be my guest. But don't tell me I'm biased. If it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson there's probably a preeeeeeeeetty good reason why...

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What are you even talking about? Does it sound like Michael Jackson to you? That's all. Does it? Yes or no?

If it doesn't, does Teddy Riley's assertions make the audio clearer to you? Because the audio stays the same to me. And it still sounds nothing like Michael Jackson.

okay I'll simplify

You said "If it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson there's probably a preeeeeeeeetty good reason why..."

I'm saying "tell me the pretty good reason why Bruce Swedien says it sounds like Michael". "tell me the pretty good reason why 40 some percent of people think it's Michael". what's the pretty good reason that it sounds like Michael to those group of people?

In short what I'm trying to make a point of is this "yes to you it doesn't sound like Michael and you are highly confident in your determination however there's a group of people that believe to the opposite. why are you denying them if you are non-biased"

Did the musicians listen to the final album version of the songs? Did they listen to the whole song, or just one verse? There are also other groups of musicians (Rodney Jerkins and Jennifer Battens) who said the contrary.

The information I got from the official statement released by the Estate is as filmsy as one can get. I'd rather trust my own instinct than that statement.

Estate statement said that they listened to the acapellas. Were those people called to listen to the acapeallas? As far as I can tell Jennifer Batten listened to the finished songs.

and my point wasn't about who said what and who is more credible.
It was just to show that there are two different groups that believe to two opposite things. and how can any of us claim to be not biased if we refuse the "possibility" of the other side being right?

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Estate statement said that they listened to the acapellas. Were those people called to listen to the acapeallas? As far as I can tell Jennifer Batten listened to the finished songs.

If they felt that by listening to the acapellas they feel it's Michael, then why is it so difficult to release them to the public? Why are the Cascio's not making an effort to engage with the fans to clear this mess up? Oh I know, they would rather have a book deal, lol..If you wanna learn more then you gotta pay up

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

okay I'll simplify

You said "If it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson there's probably a preeeeeeeeetty good reason why..."

I'm saying "tell me the pretty good reason why Bruce Swedien says it sounds like Michael". "tell me the pretty good reason why 40 some percent of people think it's Michael". what's the pretty good reason that it sounds like Michael to those group of people?

In short what I'm trying to make a point of is this "yes to you it doesn't sound like Michael and you are highly confident in your determination however there's a group of people that believe to the opposite. why are you denying them if you are non-biased"



Estate statement said that they listened to the acapellas. Were those people called to listen to the acapeallas? As far as I can tell Jennifer Batten listened to the finished songs.

and my point wasn't about who said what and who is more credible.
It was just to show that there are two different groups that believe to two opposite things. and how can any of us claim to be not biased if we refuse the "possibility" of the other side being right?

Do the songs sound like Michael Jackson to you? Yes or no?

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Do the songs sound like Michael Jackson to you? Yes or no?

yes with the support of legit additional vocals.

ps : I hope you do realize that my point isn't about what you and I think.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If they felt that by listening to the acapellas they feel it's Michael, then why is it so difficult to release them to the public? Why are the Cascio's not making an effort to engage with the fans to clear this mess up? Oh I know, they would rather have a book deal, lol..If you wanna learn more then you gotta pay up

hahah.....No doubt...you can learn about all the buttons Eddie pushed..

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

yes with the support of legit additional vocals

What does that mean?

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What does that mean?

there are other vocals such as Porte that are singing and credited on the album.

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

hahah.....No doubt...you can learn about all the buttons Eddie pushed..

:lol:

Yep "I pushed buttons."...the Cascio's sure are great friends of Michael..:smilerolleyes: They divide the fan base with these tracks then refuse to engage with the fans directly about them to have a final resolution to this. Now, they are planning on releasing a book so if you wanna know more about these tracks, then you gotta BUY the information. LOL. Kinda funny when people want to defend that.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

there are other vocals such as Porte that are singing and credited on the album.

But you hear Michael Jackson? Without referring to other people's opinions? Fundamentally you think, and have always thought, the songs sound like Michael Jackson? And that was before the Estate's 'confirmation'?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

:lol:

Yep "I pushed buttons."...the Cascio's sure are great friends of Michael..:smilerolleyes: They divide the fan base with these tracks then refuse to engage with the fans directly about them to have a final resolution to this. Now, they are planning on releasing a book so if you wanna know more about these tracks, then you gotta BUY the information. LOL. Kinda funny when people want to defend that.

I doubt we're going to hear anything new regarding the vocals in that book...

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I doubt we're going to hear anything new regarding the vocals in that book...

Your probably right...Heck, they may not even mention ANYTHING about the vocals..So when people buy this book, thinking there might be some sort of clear explanation about it but then there is nothing...Just have a giant pink elephant in the room, and not even address it. GREAT Job Cascios'..you Ostriches.

 

[Mikaeel101]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

the Cascio's sure are great friends of Michael..:smilerolleyes: They divide the fan base with these tracks then refuse to engage with the fans directly about them to have a final resolution to this.

Sums it up for me.

Michael was all about love and kindness and if his friends can't follow the same rules, are they really his friends?

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I can't wait if we ever get "real" proof (not that I need it). I can't wait to see the "believers" reactions.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Your probably right...Heck, they may not even mention ANYTHING about the vocals..So when people buy this book, thinking there might be some sort of clear explanation about it but then there is nothing...Just have a giant pink elephant in the room, and not even address it. GREAT Job Cascios'..you Ostriches.

Oh, you'll see something about the vocals...It'll be in the index...see appendix A - Excuses

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But you hear Michael Jackson? Without referring to other people's opinions? Fundamentally you think, and have always thought, the songs sound like Michael Jackson? And that was before the Estate's 'confirmation'?

yes.

I have several posts in the archives saying that I'm torn and I hear Michael on parts and can't hear him at other parts. I also mentioned the possibility of a low quality recording for the differences in the first day and Michael not giving his all and therefore not feeling his spark in the songs. there are also posts of me that says I found acapealla posted to be more convincing that it's Michael. and said that we'll have better idea as we get more information. I also have posts that says it is probably a better idea to leave those songs out of the album due to controversy. all of these were before the estate statement.

Like I said to me it was always Michael with additional vocals and I didn't know what to make of the additional vocals initially. I later formed an opinion of those additional vocals to be legit based on the information that we got. But I always heard Michael in parts although not in perfect quality.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's not like the additional vocals changes MJ's voice. I fail to see why you keep mentioning this. Listen to the BN a cappella. This is suppose to be Michael Jackson all way through.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's not like the additional vocals changes MJ's voice. I fail to see why you keep mentioning this. Listen to the BN a cappella. This is suppose to be Michael Jackson all way through.

I'm answering samhabib's question that's why I mentioned it and what I mean by it I never said "100% Michael." (I'm not saying additional vocals change his voice. remember some posts that had who is singing what and listing Michael and Porte for different parts - that's what I'm trying to say. It has nothing to do with the "vocals debate" or "proof for a side", it's just "what I thought/think when I listened to the songs"). I do hear Michael and I believe there's a post of me in the archives that says I find BN acapealla to be convincing that it's Michael.

In short what I'm saying is that

- It's Michael but not 100% but that additional vocals (Porte et al) is legit.
- It's not perfect vocals that Michael gives his 100%.
- If I was making decisions I would most probably NOT include those songs in the album simply due to controversy.
- After listening to the album I really do not care much for BN and KYHU. I love Monster though.

 

[Worldwide]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I can't wait if we ever get "real" proof (not that I need it). I can't wait to see the "believers" reactions.

I cannot wait also. When the "doubters" will be proven wrong! =)

I'm about to DIY acapella the first verse of Monster, let's see what the result is.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

okay I'll simplify

You said "If it doesn't sound like Michael Jackson there's probably a preeeeeeeeetty good reason why..."

I'm saying "tell me the pretty good reason why Bruce Swedien says it sounds like Michael". "tell me the pretty good reason why 40 some percent of people think it's Michael". what's the pretty good reason that it sounds like Michael to those group of people?

In short what I'm trying to make a point of is this "yes to you it doesn't sound like Michael and you are highly confident in your determination however there's a group of people that believe to the opposite. why are you denying them if you are non-biased"



Estate statement said that they listened to the acapellas. Were those people called to listen to the acapeallas? As far as I can tell Jennifer Batten listened to the finished songs.

and my point wasn't about who said what and who is more credible.
It was just to show that there are two different groups that believe to two opposite things. and how can any of us claim to be not biased if we refuse the "possibility" of the other side being right?

I don't wanna go to far down this road, but their opinion means absolutly nothing, unless it's said to you in front of your face with no 3rd party intervention. The fact it's released through an official statement, who knows what they really said.

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

- If I was making decisions I would most probably NOT include those songs in the album simply due to controversy.

It's interesting how whether one feels it is Michael or not, that the vast majority of fans are in agreement of this (Including me ). In the estates statement, they say how our opinions matter...yeah right, if it mattered these songs would definitely not be on the album. This is the result of a small group of people (Sony/Estae) deciding something important for a large group of people (the customers/fans) without completely taking serious our feelings and thoughts.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I cannot wait also. When the "doubters" will be proven wrong! =)

I'm about to DIY acapella the first verse of Monster, let's see what the result is.

Take a seat, you might be waiting a while.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm answering samhabib's question that's why I mentioned it and what I mean by it I never said "100% Michael." (I'm not saying additional vocals change his voice). I do hear Michael and I believe there's a post of me in the archives that says I find BN acapealla to be convincing that it's Michael.

In short what I'm saying is that

- It's Michael but not 100% but that additional vocals (Porte et al) is legit.
- It's not perfect vocals that Michael gives his 100%.
- If I was making decisions I would most probably NOT include those songs in the album simply due to controversy.
- After listening to the album I really do not care much for BN and KYHU. I love Monster though.

Supporting vocal is legit if the supporting vocals compliment the lead vocals not overwhelm the lead vocals.

There are parts of songs that NEED to be sung by Michael in order to be a Michael Jackson song. The line "I'm starting with the man in the mirror" has to be sung by Michael. The line "Bille Jean is not my lover" has to be sung by Michael. You know what I mean? You can't call a song a Michael Jackson song if he's only featured in a small portion of the song. Is there any song, not just Michael Jaskon's song, but any artist's song, that forces us to look into the song credit to find out who the vocalists are?

The fact that almost everyone, doubters and non-doubters, cannot hear Michael in parts that are supposed to be sung by Michael is alarming. It's really ridiculous.

If I was making decisions, I would DEFINITELY NOT include those songs in the album not because of controversy, but becasue of respect. Michael Jackson deserves more respect.