Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

One radio station and Youtuber's aren't really "many" people, when you consider those who could immediately tell a difference upon first listen.

It's still quite a lot of people, Obviously not as many as the Cascio tracks, but people were still fooled...

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And bear in mind, it's also the same guy who believes that Michael IS singing the Cascio Tracks!

^ In other words, the clinically insane.

What happened to you, Teddy? What happened?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

One radio station and Youtuber's aren't really "many" people, when you consider those who could immediately tell a difference upon first listen.

If you were present on this board back in 2007, you'd be surprised to see how many fans had been fooled, including myself.

 

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I remember when it came out. I already admitted that at that time I was fooled too (only during a couple of days though), because, first, I hadn't realize that someone could imitate MJ as close as JM and second, we've been expecting a new Michael album called 7even. However, afterwards many of us realized that we've been fooled. Since then, Jason became famous. As far as 7even is concerned, the album never came out. Afterwards, out of frustration someone made a fake album with some Jason's songs on it thinking that the songs were MJ's unreleased songs. And some people still today believe it is a MJ's album.

Today we witness the Cascio tracks which sound different. I don't think that we can be fooled twice.

You know, If the Crapio Track's leaked and weren't actually on "Michael", I think a lot more people would dismiss them as absolutely fake. But no, cos it's on the album, we HAVE to believe it's Michael...

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The Mamacita vocalist is the same fool on the Cascio tracks. It's as clear as daylight. How funny that some say it sounds nothing like Michael yet believe the Cascio songs do. How funny.

 

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ In other words, the clinically insane.

What happened to you, Teddy? What happened?

I know, Where did the respect go. haha, Clinically Insane indeed!!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The Mamacita vocalist is the same fool on the Cascio tracks. It's as clear as daylight. How funny that some say it sounds nothing like Michael yet believe the Cascio songs do. How funny.

Exactly, it is impossible to be fooled by the Cascio tracks and not by Mamacita or Let me go.

However it is a bit of exaggeration to say that Jason sounds nothing like Michael. I don't know anyone who comes closer to MJ's voice than Jason.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You know, If the Crapio Track's leaked and weren't actually on "Michael", I think a lot more people would dismiss them as absolutely fake. But no, cos it's on the album, we HAVE to believe it's Michael...

Bingo....

 

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Exactly, it is impossible to be fooled by the Cascio tracks and not by Mamacita or Let me go.

However it is a bit of exaggeration to say that Jason sounds nothing like Michael. I don't know anyone who comes closer to MJ's voice than Jason.

Not for Breaking News though, I was horrified before the first "Miykuul Jaxon!!!"

 

[teli-mj]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Click on the video link I provided and hear it from his own mouth. He does believe that Mike is alive and even says that he doesn't care if people would think that he's crazy because of that belief.

Then i am the one of them who think that he is crazy if he actually believe that. Anyway, like i said i too believe that something is not right with those 3 songs. I don't want to put blame on the Cascios, especially Franck, who defended Mike so much during the 2005 trial, but i can not help but feel uncomfortable when i hear those tracks. Anyway, since this album is pretty much history, i don't think it matters so much any more.

 

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Move on from "Michael" Estate, and get to work on OTW reissue and Bad 25!

 

[Mikaeel101]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I feel bad for upcoming artists who are hoping to work with Teddy in the future. I can imagine a meeting going like this:

Teddy: "I'm glad that we finally have the opportunity to work together and--"

Artist: "Hold up. Didn't you say recently that you thought Michael was alive?"

Teddy: "Um... yea why?"

Artist: "And you think Michael would sit back and do something like this to his children?"

Teddy: "Um, well--"

Artist: "And you think Michael's vocals are on the new album, trying to fool fans who have been fans since they were kids, even me?"

*Silence*

Artist: "Can you wait right here, I gotta go to the bathroom."

*Artist takes the nearest taxi back home, leavng Teddy alone in the studio* WIN!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not for Breaking News though, I was horrified before the first "Miykuul Jaxon!!!"

Of course not.

The closest that my ears hear are (in terms of timbre) All I need and KYHU.

Then Mamacita.

But, Monster and BN are way too different. (similar to Let me go)

Stay is the most different so far.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I feel bad for upcoming artists who are hoping to work with Teddy in the future. I can imagine a meeting going like this:

Teddy: "I'm glad that we finally have the opportunity to work together and--"

Artist: "Hold up. Didn't you say recently that you thought Michael was alive?"

Teddy: "Um... yea why?"

Artist: "And you think Michael would sit back and do something like this to his children?"

Teddy: "Um, well--"

Artist: "And you think Michael's vocals are on the new album, trying to fool fans who have been fans since they were kids, even me?"

*Silence*

Artist: "Can you wait right here, I gotta go to the bathroom."

*Artist takes the nearest taxi back home, leavng Teddy alone in the studio* WIN!

Except that Teddy claims that he did it for his children, in order to spend more time with them.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Of course not.

The closest that my ears hear are (in terms of timbre) All I need and KYHU.

Then Mamacita.

But, Monster and BN are way too different. (similar to Let me go)

Stay is the most different so far.

All I Need, Stay, and KYHU are the worst for me...Ballads are SO easy to pinpoint...For me anyway..

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well actually it doesn't mean that there were many `Jason` cuts.

It also can mean that the song was incomplete and that they needed to `full` it,so if we take it this way,the `complete 12 songs in those months` falls.

Only rough parts are copy/pasted. Guess it's the hardest parts for Jason to do.

If you listen to Stay, All I Need & KYHU, all slower songs, you won't notice any "copy pasted words" like in the two rougher songs BN and Monster. Again, I don't know why. Would' be nice to have Monster a cappella.

copy - paste would make sense for guide vocals. like I said before people really do not care of give 100% for guide vocals. so it's likely that different verses , chorus to be taken from different takes and combined to form the guide track.

If you listen really hard to the acapella of "Breaking News" at the ad-libs towards the end, every word is fragmented and unnaturally placed. Listen intently to "You Keep On Breaking the News" and you'll see what I mean. Why would they fragment every word to fit the melody if they hired an impersonator?

I think that's the effect of melodyne processing. in a detailed melodyne processing you would go and correct every note/word separately -such as increase pitch 2% in this word, reduce it 5% in this one etc.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

All I Need, Stay, and KYHU are the worst for me...Ballads are SO easy to pinpoint...For me anyway..

My wife said that for her also ballads are easier to pinpoint because imitators tend to sing more slowly than when Michael sings them. As far as she's concerned, the explanation why they sound slower is just because they pay attention hard to imitate and stay as closer as possible to the original.

For my part, I can spot more easily the faster songs than my wife. So is this difference spotting linked to male/female audio sensivity or is it a coincidence?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

copy - paste would make sense for guide vocals. like I said before people really do not care of give 100% for guide vocals. so it's likely that different verses , chorus to be taken from different takes and combined to form the guide track.



I think that's the effect of melodyne processing. in a detailed melodyne processing you would go and correct every note/word separately -such as increase pitch 2% in this word, reduce it 5% in this one etc.

I wouldn't bet on that. As we naturally do not separate words when we sing or even talk. In other words, we speak in segments (phrases) and pause between them, not between words. For example: "get up" sounds as one word, but in reality it is one phrase and two words!

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I wouldn't bet on that. As we naturally do not separate words when we sing or even talk. In other words, we speak in segments (phrases) and pause between them, not between words. For example: "get up" sounds as one word, but in reality it is one phrase and two words!

I know. but the actual question is for example "is it possible when I say "get up" that my voice to be perfectly fine in the "get" part and crack in the "up" part?"

in a "normal" vocal processing (that I have seen) they go over the song and correct the portions let's say out of tune . it could be just a word in a whole sentence , even a single note. generally the correction is too minimal and you cannot hear it. In an extensive processing /correction however it would sound unnatural and fragmented. Especially if the guide vocal is a copy-paste of multiple tracks and have already difference between the takes.

edit: plus you are not accounting for the music change. didn't Teddy say that the songs were actually slower and he made them faster? so in order to make the songs fit the music he could have modified a certain word to sound longer and the next one to be said quicker. again it can cause the fragmentation, unnatural and copy/paste sounding vocals.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

My wife said that for her also ballads are easier to pinpoint because imitators tend to sing more slowly than when Michael sings them. As far as she's concerned, the explanation why they sound slower is just because they pay attention hard to imitate and stay as closer as possible to the original.

For my part, I can spot more easily the faster songs than my wife. So is this difference spotting linked to male/female audio sensivity or is it a coincidence?

Probably a coincidence...Although, my boyfriend didn't instantly recognize KYHU as fake like he did with Monster....

There are a lot of male fans that can instantly recognize the ballads as fake...Sam being one of them...

I didn't really think about the imitator singing slower...Makes sense...For me, though, I just find it very obvious in the whole timbre of the voice, the emotion, the smoothness, the vibrato...Plus, if you listen to KYHU, then MTS back to back, the difference is MASSIVE for me...Just massive...

 

[Mikaeel101]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

edit: plus you are not accounting for the music change. didn't Teddy say that the songs were actually slower and he made them faster? so in order to make the songs fit the music he could have modified a certain word to sound longer and the next one to be said quicker.

Changing the speed of a song doesn't change how the voice on the songs sounds.

You could take "Butterflies" and speed that up, it would still sound like Michael.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Changing the speed of a song doesn't change how the voice on the songs sounds.

You could take "Butterflies" and speed that up, it would still sound like Michael.

you might want to go and recheck that. Speed up and slow down will change the vocals sound.

Open a MJ song at Windows Media Player, right click the top bar to find "enhancements" , choose "play speed settings" , move it between "0.5" and "2.0".

the slower you play the words will become more distorted, the faster you play it would sound like a "chipmunk".

edit:

Lady Gaga Bad Romance slow down



Lady Gaga Bad Romance speed up



and look what a pitch change could do - and no Sony didn't pay Alvin to sing as Michael This is actual Billie Jean song pitched 20% higher.



Billie Jean Speed up



Billie Jean with slow down and a pitch change

 

[Mikaeel101]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

you might want to go and recheck that. Speed up and slow down will change the vocals sound.

the slower you play the words will become more distorted, the faster you play it would sound like a "chipmunk".

Speeding up a song in WMP doesn't change the pitch.

Pitch and Speed are two different things.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I know. but the actual question is for example "is it possible when I say "get up" that my voice to be perfectly fine in the "get" part and crack in the "up" part?"

Of course. It's a bisyllabic phrase, and as in a song everything is brought down to syllables, one of the syllables could crack. But my point was when you try to separate an copy paste words per words it would be awfully unnatural.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Speeding up a song in WMP doesn't change the pitch.

Pitch and Speed are two different things.

I know that. Chipmunk effect is done by increasing the pitch. I used "chipmunk" for the lack of a better word to describe the change in speed up. If it would make you happy let's say slow down or speed up "distorts" the words.

However I posted videos to satisfy you.

 

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

you might want to go and recheck that. Speed up and slow down will change the vocals sound.

Open a MJ song at Windows Media Player, right click the top bar to find "enhancements" , choose "play speed settings" , move it between "0.5" and "2.0".

the slower you play the words will become more distorted, the faster you play it would sound like a "chipmunk".

edit:

Lady Gaga Bad Romance slow down



Lady Gaga Bad Romance speed up



and look what a pitch change could do - and no Sony didn't pay Alvin to sing as Michael This is actual Billie Jean song pitched 20% higher.



Billie Jean Speed up



Billie Jean with slow down and a pitch change

So if we slow down the Cascio Tracks, they'll sound like Michael?...

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Of course. It's a bisyllabic phrase, and as in a song everything is brought down to syllables, one of the syllables could crack. But my point was when you try to separate an copy paste words per words it would be awfully unnatural.

and wasn't that the original argument? that it sounds so unnatural and fragmented?

any processing is supposed to be minimum - like I said as far as I saw "normally" it's used to correct one thing here, one thing there because if it's too bad you'll just go and re-record it. However if you are trying to correct the whole thing and doing fine tuning to every single note/word at different ways then it's bound to sound like copy-paste, unnatural and fragmented.

So if we slow down the Cascio Tracks, they'll sound like Michael?...

no I don't think that one single change is used throughout the songs. I think that they corrected/modified every single word/note on different levels to fit to the music they made. and it's most probably will be more obvious on faster songs such as Monster and Breaking News. and the slower songs will sound more "natural".

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So if we slow down the Cascio Tracks, they'll sound like Michael?...

If you slow down the Cascio tracks they'll sound like Vincent Price.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and wasn't that the original argument? that it sounds so unnatural and fragmented?

any processing is supposed to be minimum - like I said as far as I saw "normally" it's used to correct one thing here, one thing there because if it's too bad you'll just go and re-record it. However if you are trying to correct the whole thing and doing fine tuning to every single note/word at different ways then it's bound to sound like copy-paste, unnatural and fragmented.

I just said I wouldn't bet on melodyne effect, as there are more possible reasons than just melodyne.

 

[Moon__Walk]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and wasn't that the original argument? that it sounds so unnatural and fragmented?

any processing is supposed to be minimum - like I said as far as I saw "normally" it's used to correct one thing here, one thing there because if it's too bad you'll just go and re-record it. However if you are trying to correct the whole thing and doing fine tuning to every single note/word at different ways then it's bound to sound like copy-paste, unnatural and fragmented.



no I don't think that one single change is used throughout the songs. I think that they corrected/modified every single word/note on different levels to fit to the music they made. and it's most probably will be more obvious on faster songs such as Monster and Breaking News. and the slower songs will sound more "natural".

Oh Okay, Thanks for the explanation

If you slow down the Cascio tracks they'll sound like Vincent Price.

Haha, Your a laugh!