Michael - The Great Album Debate

[OnirMJ]

Also when Stay leaked before the release of MICHAEL many people thought it is a Dangerous outtake recorded with Bryan Loren. But just because of the fake voice we assumed that it is from the same sessions as Breaking News. We didn't know the titles back then. Also the song was wrongly titled Carry On so some people thought is it Barry Gibb collaboration. We didn't know the titles when those songs leaked (first snippets then whole songs before the release of the MICHAEL album!!!). But with each leak we could easily determin which songs are real and which are fake. The list of all titles leaked in mid 2011 after someone got on the Sony servers and downloaded all 12 songs. After that snippets leaked of all 12 songs (in their original form).

 

[Pentum]

^ Kudos to you guys for even bothering with that guy

 

[AlwaysThere]

Is this really an argument now? That we only think the songs are fake because we're associating them with the name Cascio? That's more laughable than the idea that Michael was gravely ill for three months when these songs were supposedly recorded and then suddenly recovered and recorded Hold My Hand just days after he left the Cascio house.

 

[OnirMJ]

Do you guys think Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up, Burn Tonight, Stay & All I Need Original Versions will leak anytime soon?

I think this is what was released or leaked:

Monster (Album version)
Breaking News (Album version)
Keep Your Head Up (Album version)

All I Need (Album candidate version produced by Burt Bacharach)
Burn Tonight (Album candidate version produced by Teddy Riley)
Stay (Album candidate version produced by Tricky Stewart)

Monster (Work in progress version)
Keep Your Head Up (Work in progress version)

All Right (Original version)
Black Widow (Original version)
Fall In Love (Original version)
Monster (Original version)
Ready 2 Win (Original version)
Soldier Boy (Original version)
Water (Original version)

 

[Moromete]

Do you guys think Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up, Burn Tonight, Stay & All I Need Original Versions will leak anytime soon?

I think this is what was released or leaked:

Monster (Album version)
Breaking News (Album version)
Keep Your Head Up (Album version)

All I Need (Album candidate version produced by Burt Bacharach)
Burn Tonight (Album candidate version produced by Teddy Riley)
Stay (Album candidate version produced by Tricky Stewart)

Monster (Work in progress version)
Keep Your Head Up (Work in progress version)

All Right (Original version)
Black Widow (Original version)
Fall In Love (Original version)
Monster (Original version)
Ready 2 Win (Original version)
Soldier Boy (Original version)
Water (Original version)

All I Need (Original Version) was already leaked, in September 2012 , if I recall corectly.

 

[ivy]

Wrong! Not true. At first we knew only 3 titles from Roger Friedman's articles: Breaking News, Burn Tonight & Water. FACT. Then all the songs started to leak in late 2010 (versions considered for the album: All I Need, Stay, Monster, Keep Your Head Up). We didn't know those titles, we didn't know if they are Cascio songs by the title, we knew because of the singer. Then in 2011 the list of all 12 songs leaked, then snippets of all 12 demos leaked, then all remaining songs leaked.

Nope, you're wrong. The complete list of Cascio songs didn't come out until a year after MICHAEL released. Roger Friedman, even in his pro-Cascio non-sense article, never told us prior to 2010 the names of all the Cascio songs. Once Breaking News leaked, and people began to get unhappy, more Cascio songs leaked, at the top of my head, I'd say they were All I Need and Keep Your Head Up. But we weren't told they were Cascio songs until later articles from Friedman and Co. which would arise a day or two later.

Actually not quite true.

May 2010 Friedman started talking about these songs and mentioned Water, Breaking News and Burn Tonight - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/05/02/exclusive-michael-jackson-recorded-a-new-album-in-2007

On september 2010 Friedman was the one to disclose there were 12 songs - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/09/27/michael-jackson-new-album-before-end-of-year

Three days before Breaking News streamed and any song list was announced he mentioned Breaking News,” “Monster,” “Water,” “Keep Your Head Up,” and “All I Need.” - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/11/05/michael-jackson-new-album-five-new-song-titles

So before even breaking news teaser was made available Friedman mentioned 12 songs and named 6 of them

 

[OnirMJ]

Actually not quite true.

May 2010 Friedman started talking about these songs and mentioned Water, Breaking News and Burn Tonight - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/05/02/exclusive-michael-jackson-recorded-a-new-album-in-2007

On september 2010 Friedman was the one to disclose there were 12 songs - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/09/27/michael-jackson-new-album-before-end-of-year

Three days before Breaking News streamed and any song list was announced he mentioned Breaking News,” “Monster,” “Water,” “Keep Your Head Up,” and “All I Need.” - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/11/05/michael-jackson-new-album-five-new-song-titles

So before even breaking news teaser was made available Friedman mentioned 12 songs and named 6 of them

Thanks for that. I never read that second article. I just read the first one so I only knew 3 titles: Breaking News, Burn Tonight and Water when other songs started to leak.

So that leaves just Stay for others. Stay leaked as Carry On so even if we had that title we couldn't know if it is from Cascios or not.

 

[ivy]

^^

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we knew all the names. I just wanted to point out it was Friedman that told there were 12 songs info and names for half of them. That's all. for rest it was too long ago and I don't really remember.

 

[OnirMJ]

^^

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we knew all the names. I just wanted to point out it was Friedman that told there were 12 songs info and names for half of them. That's all. for rest it was too long ago and I don't really remember.

If I remember correctly that was it for 2010. Then in early 2011 Burn Tonight (Teddy's version) leaked, then I think Soldier Boy and the list with all the names, then the snippets of all songs (original versions).

So for those who read and followed everything that was happening that leaves just Stay and possibly Soldier Boy. But in my opinion that whole theory about knowing the titles of the songs and calling them fake just because they are from Cascios is stupid. All 12 songs sound exactly the same (vocally) so even if we didn't know the titles (like I didn't!) that would not make any difference.

 

[Moromete]

If I remember correctly that was it for 2010. Then in early 2011 Burn Tonight (Teddy's version) leaked, then I think Soldier Boy and the list with all the names, then the snippets of all songs (original versions).

So for those who read and followed everything that was happening that leaves just Stay and possibly Soldier Boy. But in my opinion that whole theory about knowing the titles of the songs and calling them fake just because they are from Cascios is stupid. All 12 songs sound exactly the same (vocally) so even if we didn't know the titles (like I didn't!) that would not make any difference.

Soldier Boy was leaked in full version in May 2011 and the list around March/April.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Do you guys think Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up, Burn Tonight, Stay & All I Need Original Versions will leak anytime

Songs We Have
Breaking News (album cut)
Monster (album cut)
Monster (original demo recording)
Monster (alternate Teddy Riley mix)
Keep Your Head Up (album cut)
Keep Your Head Up (alternate Tricky Stewart mix)
Stay (Tricky Stewart reproduction)
All I Need (Burt Bacharach reproduction)
All I Need (original demo recording)
Water (original demo recording)
Ready 2 Win (original demo recording)
All Right (original demo recording)
Soldier Boy (original demo recording)
Burn Tonight (Teddy Riley reproduction)
Fall in Love (original demo recording)
Black Widow (original demo recording)

Songs We Don't Have
Breaking News (original demo recording)
Keep Your Head Up (original demo recording)
Stay (original demo recording)
Burn Tonight (original demo recording)

 

[Pentum]

^ We do have like 1 min of each of the songs you listed as "Songs we don't have" though. A while ago, a compilation clip with all of the "demos" leaked in lower quality.

 

[Dorian]

Songs We Have
Breaking News (album cut)
Monster (album cut)
Monster (original demo recording)
Monster (alternate Teddy Riley mix)
Keep Your Head Up (album cut)
Keep Your Head Up (alternate Tricky Stewart mix)
Stay (Tricky Stewart reproduction)
All I Need (Burt Bacharach reproduction)
All I Need (original demo recording)
Water (original demo recording)
Ready 2 Win (original demo recording)
All Right (original demo recording)
Soldier Boy (original demo recording)
Burn Tonight (Teddy Riley reproduction)
Fall in Love (original demo recording)
Black Widow (original demo recording)

Songs We Don't Have
Breaking News (original demo recording)
Keep Your Head Up (original demo recording)
Stay (original demo recording)
Burn Tonight (original demo recording)

The 4 alternate takes*

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Actually not quite true.

May 2010 Friedman started talking about these songs and mentioned Water, Breaking News and Burn Tonight - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/05/02/exclusive-michael-jackson-recorded-a-new-album-in-2007

On september 2010 Friedman was the one to disclose there were 12 songs - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/09/27/michael-jackson-new-album-before-end-of-year

Three days before Breaking News streamed and any song list was announced he mentioned Breaking News,” “Monster,” “Water,” “Keep Your Head Up,” and “All I Need.” - http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/11/05/michael-jackson-new-album-five-new-song-titles

So before even breaking news teaser was made available Friedman mentioned 12 songs and named 6 of them

I did say that in that post, no? That Friedman never told us all of the Cascio song titles prior to that list that came out. I didn't know which songs he named, but I was just alluding to the fact that he never told us the names of all 12 song titles, so it's not like we had some prior hand knowledge as to what was a Cascio song and what wasn't, as claimed by Kreen.

 

[AlwaysThere]

^ We do have like 1 min of each of the songs you listed as "Songs we don't have" though. A while ago, a compilation clip with all of the "demos" leaked in lower quality.

We do indeed. I simply meant the songs that were available in full.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

I am still very angry about what they've done and even more angrier that they didn't apologize and fix the mistake they've made. I'm all for forgiveness. I really truly think it was an honest mistake and that they were scammed just like we were.

 

[coffre]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Yes, this is really how it should be done but it is also how it should have been done in the past. I am still very angry about what they've done and even more angrier that they didn't apologize and fix the mistake they've made. I'm all for forgiveness. I really truly think it was an honest mistake and that they were scammed just like we were.

I'd forgive'em if they'll release a deluxe edition of MICHAEL including the original untouched version in near future. (It's not necessary to put the "original" Cascio tracks on it - they can say Eddie's pushed the buttons and they got deleted)

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Am I the only one that is completely over the Michael album? I don't think it's right what they did and I agree that some sort of statement should have been put out. But really, what could they say? Eddie gave John Doelp the stem recordings in 2010; Sony/the estate weren't involved in their creation. All they could say is, "We apologize for releasing the songs, it was a mistake on our part." They won't withdraw the songs from Michael's catalog for some time, if ever. Think about it: how often do you hear of a record label withdrawing songs from any artist's catalog for any reason whatsoever?

If you want a proper apology, it has to come from Eddie Cascio, James Porte and/or Jason Malachi.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

I'd forgive'em if they'll release a deluxe edition of MICHAEL including the original untouched version in near future. (It's not necessary to put the "original" Cascio tracks on it - they can say Eddie's pushed the buttons and they got deleted)

You have "original" C. tracks on the internet. Almost all of them. They should have apologized for inclusion of those tracks on the CD when they learned that the tracks are not legit. Not keep their mouths shut. Remove the tracks from the official discography and re-release the album without those tracks (maybe replace them with some demos). It's still not too late in my opinion. Also they should have sued C. brothers when they found out.

I understand they were fooled. They are not MJ fans, they are lawyers and businessmen. They don't have the ear that we fans have. Even some MJ fans were fooled when Mamacita leaked back in 2007. It's not easy to recognize JM if you are not MJ fan.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

All they could say is, "We apologize for releasing the songs, it was a mistake on our part." They won't withdraw the songs from Michael's catalog for some time, if ever. Think about it: how often do you hear of a record label withdrawing songs from any artist's catalog for any reason whatsoever?.

Apology would have been nice. You don't hear that often because this is the first time in music history that that happened on that level. Also it's not any artist. It is Michael Jackson.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Apology would have been nice. You don't hear that often because this is the first time in music history that that happened on that level. Also it's not any artist. It is Michael Jackson.

Do we really want Michael's name to be tarnished with the idea that his estate released three fake songs and had to withdraw them? Definitely not. Those songs are an embarrassment, indeed. And yes, I would have liked an apology, but on any case this is now, unfortunately, ancient history.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

^^They will never admit they screwed it BIG TIME with that album release in 2010.

But now, credit where credit is due. The Estate is doing a huge improvement with Xscape so far, I really want this album to be successful.

 

[WildStyle]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Do we really want Michael's name to be tarnished with the idea that his estate released three fake songs and had to withdraw them? Definitely not. Those songs are an embarrassment, indeed. And yes, I would have liked an apology, but on any case this is now, unfortunately, ancient history.

That makes no sense. Michael's name would not be tarnished. Michael had nothing to do with it. It would the estate and Sony's name that is tarnished. Which is why they'll do anything to save their own ass. If anything it's tarnishing Michael's name for them to go on pretending that that poor excuse for a singer on those rubbish songs is Michael Jackson. It's an embarrassment. The ultimate insult.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

That makes no sense. Michael's name would not be tarnished. Michael had nothing to do with it. It would the estate and Sony's name that is tarnished. Which is why they'll do anything to save their own ass. If anything it's tarnishing Michael's name for them to go on pretending that that poor excuse for a singer on those rubbish songs is Michael Jackson. It's an embarrassment. The ultimate insult.

Michael Jackson would be the first artist who had music withdrawn from his catalog. While it wouldn't tarnish his name, it isn't a record that they want on their hands.

And to be one hundred percent honest, the estate doesn't have any proof that the songs are fake. Everyone behind their creation insist that they are real so, sensibly, they can't make the claim that they aren't. I know that they are fake songs--anyone with ears can hear that--but it hasn't been necessarily proven as far as forensic testing and/or admissions from those involved go.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

And to be one hundred percent honest, the estate doesn't have any proof that the songs are fake. Everyone behind their creation insist that they are real so, sensibly, they can't make the claim that they aren't. I know that they are fake songs--anyone with ears can hear that--but it hasn't been necessarily proven as far as forensic testing and/or admissions from those involved go.

Yeah, perfect crime.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

how about we just forget about the Cascio tracks?

 

[WildStyle]

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Michael Jackson would be the first artist who had music withdrawn from his catalog. While it wouldn't tarnish his name, it isn't a record that they want on their hands.

I'm not even sure this is true, but if so who cares? The songs are NOT Michael Jackson songs so why shouldn't they be withdrawn from his catalog? They should never have been there in the first place. It does not reflect badly on Michael at all. Only on the people behind the decision to include the songs.

And to be one hundred percent honest, the estate doesn't have any proof that the songs are fake. Everyone behind their creation insist that they are real so, sensibly, they can't make the claim that they aren't. I know that they are fake songs--anyone with ears can hear that--but it hasn't been necessarily proven as far as forensic testing and/or admissions from those involved go.

4 years later, they may know a lot more than we think they know. But also they never had any real proof the songs were actually Michael.

how about we just forget about the Cascio tracks?

Not going to happen.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I'm not even sure this is true, but if so who cares? The songs are NOT Michael Jackson songs so why shouldn't they be withdrawn from his catalog? They should never have been there in the first place. It does not reflect badly on Michael at all. Only on the people behind the decision to include the songs.

4 years later, they may know a lot more than we think they know. But also they never had any real proof the songs were actually Michael.

Not going to happen.

To an extent, I do agree with you entirely, but in reality I can't see it happening. Removing the tracks from the discography would also cause a complete recall on every copy of Michael still circulating, and that would cost quite a bit of money considering most copies are just sitting around in discount bins. The estate needs bona fide proof to constitute them even considering removing the songs from Michael's discography, such as an admission from either Eddie Cascio, James Porte or Jason Malachi.

Additionally, the estate doesn't know anything more than we do. They haven't been in contact with Eddie Cascio or James Porte since late 2010/early 2011, and neither one of them have admitted that the songs are fraudulent. All the estate knows is that (a) the songs don't truly sound like Michael; (b) any claims that bad recording conditions, Melodyne, etc. can be disputed; and (c) the fans are furious.

how about we just forget about the Cascio tracks?

That's never going to happen, but I do agree with you to a degree. It was probably the biggest mistake any posthumous project has ever made and many people (including me) are furious over it, but at this point in time, complaining about it isn't going to change anything. All of us can post all we want and argue and yell and fight but at the end of the day, they're still on the discography. All we can do is sit back and pray that one of the writers/vocalists gain some humanity and come forward with an admission.

 

[Birchey]

In all honesty, saying the Estate have no proof they are fake is just like saying they have no proof they are real...........with the latter being more important to me, not only do they have no proof they are real, with the majority of people who heard them prior to release saying they were not MJ, they then went and "manufactured" a that statement they released, hopefully the truth will be revealed in the future but its not my story to tell and oh boy a good story it is.

 

[Albion]

But haven't the Estate painted themselves into a corner when they released the statement claiming the recordings were real? Not sure how they can get out of it now and save face. Not that I have any sympathy as they bought it all on themselves. They should have pulled the songs prior to release as soon as people started doubting them and we wouldn't have this sorry mess now!