Michael - The Great Album Debate

[AlwaysThere]

^^ I agree. Fans are quick to throw the entire album under the bus mainly because of the three Cascio tracks but I figure that, had it been issued as a seven-track EP, fans would have responded better.

Hold My Hand - Akon's newer mix fulfills the potential that the original demo had. The strings sound fuller, the synths sound sharper and the new vocals are beautiful. As I've seen a few comment on, Michael's background vocals are mixed down and aren't as loud as in the demo, but nonetheless Akon did a beautiful job.

Hollywood Tonight - I'm wholeheartedly surprised at a lot of the flack this song gets. Aside from the unnecessary spoken word verse (which could have been solved with Mischke recording Michael's unfinished bridge and adding some ad libs over it) and the processor over the lead vocal track, the music is great. Michael's beat boxing as percussion, the muted bass, Neff-U's funky guitar licks. I feel like in most aspects Michael would have approved.

(I Like) The Way You Love Me - Although a lot of people have complained about the Melodyne on the final chorus, this mix is just as phenomenal as the original 1999 demo. It feels snug with most R&B music of today. I though, would have included the demo's "laaaaaa la la la" ad libs somewhere in there.

Best of Joy - Without question the best song on the album, and one of the best in Michael's catalog. It's exactly what I expected from his next album: free, fun and beautiful.

(I Can't Make It) Another Day - The original demo as a whole is MUCH better in terms of music, but Lenny's new mix isn't bad at all. I like that it puts a LOT of focus on Michael's vocals, but it has a more bluesy rock feel than the demo, and doesn't rock your eardrums like the original does.

Behind the Mask - John McClain's reproduction is phenomenal. The original demo is just what one would expect: Michael's vocals stacked over a near carbon copy of the 1985 Greg Phillinganes instrumental. The 2010 mix is funkier, perfectly mixing old school and new school. Props to Mike Phillips for his phenomenal saxophone performance.

Much Too Soon - Absolutely beautiful. From the strings to the harmonica to the guitars to Michael's vocals, it's an all around heartbreaking track that is on par with She's Out of My Life and Don't Walk Away. I'm hoping a wider group of people have the chance to hear one of Tommy Emmanuel's alternate mixes, with just Michael's 1994 vocal and his guitar performance. (Emmanuel, for those of you who don't know, played guitar on the album mix.)

 

[HIStoric]

Hollywood Tonight - I'm wholeheartedly surprised at a lot of the flack this song gets. Aside from the unnecessary spoken word verse (which could have been solved with Mischke recording Michael's unfinished bridge and adding some ad libs over it) and the processor over the lead vocal track, the music is great. Michael's beat boxing as percussion, the muted bass, Neff-U's funky guitar licks. I feel like in most aspects Michael would have approved.

Definitely. I actually really enjoy this track and, along with Hold My Hand, its one of my absolute favourites on this album. I'll occasionally replay it out of nowhere too. I remember showing this song to a friend who has no interest in MJ and he said he really liked it, had it on his iPod too.

(I Like) The Way You Love Me - Although a lot of people have complained about the Melodyne on the final chorus, this mix is just as phenomenal as the original 1999 demo. It feels snug with most R&B music of today. I though, would have included the demo's "laaaaaa la la la" ad libs somewhere in there.

I miss that little piano sound you hear in the demo

(I Can't Make It) Another Day - The original demo as a whole is MUCH better in terms of music, but Lenny's new mix isn't bad at all. I like that it puts a LOT of focus on Michael's vocals, but it has a more bluesy rock feel than the demo, and doesn't rock your eardrums like the original does.

I wish they had kept the song the same, minus the new introduction. When I first heard this song, I was honestly like OH MY GOD YES THIS IS AMAZING but after the intro I was left pretty disappointed. I play the leak more to be honest.

Much Too Soon - Absolutely beautiful. From the strings to the harmonica to the guitars to Michael's vocals, it's an all around heartbreaking track that is on par with She's Out of My Life and Don't Walk Away. I'm hoping a wider group of people have the chance to hear one of Tommy Emmanuel's alternate mixes, with just Michael's 1994 vocal and his guitar performance. (Emmanuel, for those of you who don't know, played guitar on the album mix.)

Interesting tidbit: this song is credited to the Thriller era, yet was actually recorded in the HIStory era. Was reading on this forum called gearslutz, where many of MJs engineers etc were on there answering questions etc and one mentioned Much Too Soon. He said he didn't know when it was written, but that he performed it in the HIStory era. So my guess is that it was written in the Thriller era, but eventually recorded in the HIStory era.

 

[WildStyle]

'Michael' was a terrible release all around even without the Cascio tracks IMO (though none of it down to the fault of MJ). With the Cascio tracks, it's just putrid. From the artwork, to the concept, to the remixing, to the song selection, to the marketing. Terrible.

 

[SoCav]

I'm still on the fence with the authenticity of the Cascio tracks to be honest. They did explain they had to do some processing to it, "With the Melodyne we actually move the stuff up which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still hearing the true Michael Jackson" and back then, that satisfied me.

We have gone over that comment in this topic countless (literally countless I'm afraid, lol) times. This explanation is simply not true.

Oh and in regards to whether they should update the instrumental or not, YES!!!!! Look, we all want Michael to chart again. With him not here to promote the material, it's already difficult to get him on there. If we release 80s sounding music, the chances of it charting will be rather little. What they should do is get CREDIBLE producers etc, those who worked with MJ and/or are strongly renowned in the musical industry to work on the tracks. The instrumental on the leaked version of 'Slave to the Rhythm' was a recently-produced instrumental I believe and look how awesome that was.

Personally, I thought that instrumental was awful. Most importantly, however, it has nothing to do with MJ's vision of the song. I think it is an insult to his artistry to just throw out all the hard work he put into it and mix some lame, forgettable club beat under it.

As for charting: I honestly do not care one bit whether Michael charts again or not. If he does, great, but if not (which is much more likely, at least in the short term), I am not going to lose any sleep over it. I certainly do not think it should be the focus of future projects. All I care for is that the unreleased work he left behind is presented in a respectable manner and documented in a way so that future generations can seek out those releases and get a good impression and understanding of the complete body of his work. The focus should be on his music, not someone else's interpretation of it. Do you really think anyone is going to listen to some forgettable remix by a flavour of the month producer 40 years from now? No, but people will always be interested in the authentic material Michael left behind, even if that is incomplete.

THEN they could perhaps release a Deluxe Edition and on the 2nd disc, they could have some more songs perhaps or something, and then include the original versions of these songs as Michael had them. Thus satisfying the fans, and also helping get MJ's music out there to the modern crowd.

I would be in favour of the opposite: focus on releasing the original versions and perhaps every now and then promote a remix for the general public to get MJ's name out there again.

'Michael' was a terrible release all around even without the Cascio tracks IMO (though none of it down to the fault of MJ). With the Cascio tracks, it's just putrid. From the artwork, to the concept, to the remixing, to the song selection, to the marketing. Terrible.

Agreed.

 

[HIStoric]

'Michael' was a terrible release all around even without the Cascio tracks IMO (though none of it down to the fault of MJ). With the Cascio tracks, it's just putrid. From the artwork, to the concept, to the remixing, to the song selection, to the marketing. Terrible.

The marketing and song selection was pretty crap, yeah. The artwork though ? That was probably my most favourite thing that came out of the entire project. If you look at the full, blown-up art piece they used for the cover, it's actually really awesome. I have a poster of it on my wall and in the past, I've stared at it for a while, noticing all the small intricate details. Sadly, a lot was cut out to fit the 1:1 aspect ratio of the album cover.

It's really cool though how the artist managed to paint Michael's life and career from child superstar, up until his last days, showcasing many of the icons he created (Thriller outfit, the smooth criminal lean, him performing Beat it, the HIStory statue to name a few off the top of my head), many of his short films that aren't necessarily icons (The Way You Make Me Feel, Leave Me Alone, Blood on the Dance Floor etc) as well as showcasing many aspect that meant a lot to him. His icons that influenced him, major milestones in his life, the nuisance that was paparazzi, his love for nature, and of course, his love for children.

I think it's a pretty cool painting in all honesty and personally, it's my most favourite thing that came out of Michael. Not only that but out of all the things that happened in this project, this would've definitely been something Michael would've loved. Hell, it was Michael after all who approached the artist about this painting anyway (although it was stalled until the Estate revived it in 2009).

Personally, I thought that instrumental was awful. Most importantly, however, it has nothing to do with MJ's vision of the song. I think it is an insult to his artistry to just throw out all the hard work he put into it and mix some lame, forgettable club beat under it.

Fair enough, that's your opinion Personally, I really love it and a number of people I've played it to enjoy it as well. Was there a demo of the original version or something? You talk about it messing with Michael's vision or something so I'm just wondering if there is ! But don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want some crap, forgettable club beat under it either. What I meant is take the instrumental and reproduce it with modern sounds or something, so that it stays close to what MJ intended, but with a more modern approach.

 

[SoCav]

Fair enough, that's your opinion Personally, I really love it and a number of people I've played it to enjoy it as well. Was there a demo of the original version or something? You talk about it messing with Michael's vision or something so I'm just wondering if there is ! But don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want some crap, forgettable club beat under it either. What I meant is take the instrumental and reproduce it with modern sounds or something, so that it stays close to what MJ intended, but with a more modern approach.

Sure, to each their own!

There is an original version of course (you can even hear the original beat in the first couple of seconds of the song, due to microphone bleed), but I have not heard it. However, we know that the version we have heard is very different from the original because Tricky Stewart, who produced this remix, said this in an interview with Vibe:

One of them I worked on real heavy. A song called Slve to the Rhythm. LA and babyface wrote the record. By me having so much familiarity on their music it was lots of fun to beat those guys up. I really wanted to destroy the production on their own record laughs. So that was fun and when I played it for them they were blown away.

As for your second point, I just disagree... Why would Michael's work need to be messed with at all?

 

[HIStoric]

Sure, to each their own!

There is an original version of course (you can even hear the original beat in the first couple of seconds of the song, due to microphone bleed), but I have not heard it. However, we know that the version we have heard is very different from the original because Tricky Stewart, who produced this remix, said this in an interview with Vibe:

One of them I worked on real heavy. A song called Slve to the Rhythm. LA and babyface wrote the record. By me having so much familiarity on their music it was lots of fun to beat those guys up. I really wanted to destroy the production on their own record laughs. So that was fun and when I played it for them they were blown away.

As for your second point, I just disagree... Why would Michael's work need to be messed with at all?

Really? I always just assumed that part was unfinished or, as you said, microphone bleeding, but MJ was singing to the song before the instrumental was finished.

Anyways, I'll be honest and say I just personally don't have too much of a problem with them recreating the instrumental close to the original so that it just sounds more modern. I'm not going to lie and say there aren't cases where I haven't been disappointed with an updated instrumental. I was incredibly disappointed with the 'Michael' version of Another Day, but I loved the leak that was released a few years ago. I had the leak on repeat for ages when I first heard it.

But if we knew Michael hadn't worked on a song since, say, the 80s and that he wanted to release it on a future album, AND we got people who were actually working on the song with him at the time, then I think yes - they should update it. Michael wouldn't release it with an 80s instrumental, hell it'd be closer to his vision to modernise the instrumental. I don't know if he has specified that for any songs though as I haven't paid much attention to any 'lists' that were leaked of songs he was interested in leaking. Some of the songs from the early 90s though and early 2000s (such as If You Don't Love Me, Place with no name, Escape/Xscape) sound fine though and I would actually argue against editing the instrumentals of those songs.

So I guess in summary, it's a song by song basis. If they were doing songs that sounded outdated (like those from the 80s especially), then I wouldn't be too much against them recreating the instrumental so that it's basically the same, just with more modern sounds, so long as the people who originally worked with MJ on these tracks were involved. ESPECIALLY if they were to include the original demos or whatever on a second disc or something. If the songs don't sound too much outdated (like those 3 songs I mentioned), then I wouldn't want them to modernise them, no. Sorry if this post seems all over the place btw

EDIT: Just something else I thought about. It is possible that if we hear an 'updated' instrumental, that MJ could've still worked on it. A number of leaks we have were leaked like decade ago, meaning it is very much possible Michael could've tweaked with it further in his last few years. Not that we'd know unless we were informed though...

 

[StellaJackson]

Hollywood Tonight is butchered beyond recognition. Michael had a bridge written for the song that was dark and disturbing. Instead they completely changed the meaning to make it uplifting and positive. They also ignored Michael's spoken instructions on the demo and edited out an entire line to change the meaning. By "they" I am of course referring to Teddy Riley. The Michael album version in no way represents Michael's vision for the song.

And yeah the whole melodyne and processing nonsense. The Cascio tracks are barely processed at all. And regardless, doing such a thing wouldn't suddenly turn Michael's voice into Jason Malachi. And as we know from the original versions of all 12 songs, Teddy Riley lied. The vocals are the same on both. Nothing he did affected them.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

I don't care about Billboard charts, I just want music that was true to Michael and his vision, I want songs the way he had them. Not mixed and recorded with other singers, and instrumentation chopped up to sound "modern". I want music that came from Michael and from Michael only, in his vision, in his words, what HE wanted. Michael the album, was none of that.

 

[HIStoric]

I don't care about Billboard charts, I just want music that was true to Michael and his vision, I want songs the way he had them. Not mixed and recorded with other singers, and instrumentation chopped up to sound "modern". I want music that came from Michael and from Michael only, in his vision, in his words, what HE wanted. Michael the album, was none of that.

Fair enough, I respect your views
Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the song 'This Is It' ?

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Fair enough, I respect your views
Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the song 'This Is It' ?

Over-hyped. From the pictures and videos of the bodyguards going into Sony with the briefcase and all of that, every indication was that it was something new, something fresh and something that would set the world on fire in the months after Michael's passing. It wasn't that at all, and the promotion for it fell flat. As far as the actual song itself, I think it's okay, I find it enjoyable to listen to from time to time, but there's songs of Michael that I play and listen to everyday, This Is It is not one of them.

 

[ChrisC]

I can't read a long post like that when in the first paragraph the poster thinks it 'might' be Michael singing.

It's not.

That is all.

lol

 

[dam2040]

I believe the Michael album was what we were warned of for a while. Once he was gone, they would do whatever they wanted to do, how they wanted it to sound, how they wanted it to look, just using Michael's voice (in some cases) to put out what they wanted to. Not what Michael was working on, what he wanted, it was all about what they wanted to put out. Hopefully the following releases will be what Michael was working on, and not some butchered crap that is nothing like what it should be.

 

[Pentum]

I am dying to hear IAAL...

 

[analogue]

I believe the Michael album was what we were warned of for a while. Once he was gone, they would do whatever they wanted to do, how they wanted it to sound, how they wanted it to look, just using Michael's voice (in some cases) to put out what they wanted to. Not what Michael was working on, what he wanted, it was all about what they wanted to put out. Hopefully the following releases will be what Michael was working on, and not some butchered crap that is nothing like what it should be.

The Michael album wasn't made for fans. It was made the general public. That's why they got people like Akon and 50 Cent on there and if it wasn't for the big back lash Monster would have been a single

 

[HIStoric]

The Michael album wasn't made for fans. It was made the general public. That's why they got people like Akon and 50 Cent on there and if it wasn't for the big back lash Monster would have been a single

Akon had actually worked on the song with MJ years before, so he wasn't there just for publicity. He was there cos MJ actually worked with him on that song. Similar for 50 Cent - MJ called him up and said he wanted to work with him, only thing is they never actually got in the studio together. Not saying that the involvement of 50 Cent wasn't for publicity, just saying that MJ had expressed interest in working with him so having him on the album would make sense

 

[analogue]

Akon had actually worked on the song with MJ years before, so he wasn't there just for publicity. He was there cos MJ actually worked with him on that song. Similar for 50 Cent - MJ called him up and said he wanted to work with him, only thing is they never actually got in the studio together. Not saying that the involvement of 50 Cent wasn't for publicity, just saying that MJ had expressed interest in working with him so having him on the album would make sense

The reason why Hold My Hand was on the album and released as the 1st single is because Akon was on it. They thought that by having Akon that would appeal to the more younger crowd. And Maybe MJ did express interest in working with 50 Cent but for all we know they could have never recorded anything together. Monster doesn't count because it's not MJ singing on that song

 

[HIStoric]

The reason why Hold My Hand was on the album and released as the 1st single is because Akon was on it. They thought that by having Akon that would appeal to the more younger crowd.

Yep that makes sense. It paid off too. Hold My Hand seemed to be the only successful single off Michael. I remember seeing it in the top ten on iTunes for a while after it's release. My most favourite song on the album too

 

[analogue]

The biggest mistake they made was not including Slave To The Rhythm On the album. With the whole Club music craze that was going around at that time it would have been a hit

 

[HIStoric]

The biggest mistake they made was not including Slave To The Rhythm On the album. With the whole Club music craze that was going around at that time it would have been a hit

Oh definitely. It leaked around that time didn't it ? I really hope they include it on the next album of unreleased material. One of my most favourite unreleased MJ songs

 

[AlwaysThere]

Interesting tidbit: this song is credited to the Thriller era, yet was actually recorded in the HIStory era. Was reading on this forum called gearslutz, where many of MJs engineers etc were on there answering questions etc and one mentioned Much Too Soon. He said he didn't know when it was written, but that he performed it in the HIStory era. So my guess is that it was written in the Thriller era, but eventually recorded in the HIStory era.

Yup! Michael wrote it and recorded it in 1981 (as both Much Too Soon and Learned My Lesson) and brought it back to the drawing board in the spring of 1994. That engineer you spoke of was Rob Hoffman

I believe the Michael album was what we were warned of for a while. Once he was gone, they would do whatever they wanted to do, how they wanted it to sound, how they wanted it to look, just using Michael's voice (in some cases) to put out what they wanted to. Not what Michael was working on, what he wanted, it was all about what they wanted to put out. Hopefully the following releases will be what Michael was working on, and not some butchered crap that is nothing like what it should be.

As it was already said, MICHAEL wasn't made for us. It was made for the general public, and for that it fulfilled its purpose. BAD 25 was made for us, because it FELT like music Michael left behind in the late '80s, which is why it didn't have a very commercial sense.

The reason why Hold My Hand was on the album and released as the 1st single is because Akon was on it. They thought that by having Akon that would appeal to the more younger crowd. And Maybe MJ did express interest in working with 50 Cent but for all we know they could have never recorded anything together. Monster doesn't count because it's not MJ singing on that song

50 Cent and Michael never worked together - they didn't even meet. Michael did call him a few times and they spoke of working together but nothing was set in stone. I'm sure that 50 only agreed to perform on Monster so he could finally say, "I rapped on a Michael Jackson song!" There's no way he could have actually thought it was Michael.

 

[HIStoric]

That engineer you spoke of was Rob Hoffman

Ahh ok! Just incase anyone is wondering, around Michael's death, many of his engineers answered questions on this forum called gearslutz. It's so awesome to hear direct from the people who actually worked with MJ.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...-worked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album.html

Some usernames you should look out for are: Resonater, robmix, russrags, Bill_Bottrell. There might be the odd other one or two though, I'm not sure as I just quickly skimmed through it for names.

Not entirely off topic as they do talk about Michael in the posts that are from late 2010 onwards

 

[dam2040]

I didn't mean the Michael album was made for us. I meant that the Michael album was just producers doing what they wanted with Michael's work, not taking into consideration what he wanted. They simply used his vocals and did what they wanted, making the songs mean different things and sound completely different. I know that album wasn't for us, if it was would this thread exist?

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Calling the "Michael" album a success is a fallacy. Fact of the matter is, the general public didn't care for it. And for those that did, they were put off by the Cascio debacle. Which by the time it completed it's news rounds had already tainted the album for the rest of the "general public".

Smh, what type of artists estate doesn't put out music for its fans? None. So why is it now acceptable to the handful of people in this thread that it's happened to us? "Hold My Hand" wasn't exactly a smash hit, and lets not pretend that the "general public" thought it was either. Once it hit the radio stations the common sentiment from the general public was that it sounded dated. How many times was it featured on the 106 & Park countdown, which caters to the younger fans, and how high did it reach?

Michael was devastated the song leaked initially. You really think he would've found it suitable to put on a new studio album, in which the Estate-finished version, had more vocals from the featured artist than the namesake ofthe album itself? Really?

 

[HIStoric]

Calling the "Michael" album a success is a fallacy. Fact of the matter is, the general public didn't care for it. And for those that did, they were put off by the Cascio debacle. Which by the time it completed it's news rounds had already tainted the album for the rest of the "general public".

It was a success at first, but it fell quickly however. It has gone gold and platinum in many countries (Platinum in both UK and US) and it debuted at #3 on the Billboards, #4 in the UK. Honestly though, I don't really think that many people in the general public cared (or even knew) that much about the Cascio debacle. Maybe with Breaking News, but by the time Michael was released a month later, nah not really.

Smh, what type of artists estate doesn't put out music for its fans? None. So why is it now acceptable to the handful of people in this thread that it's happened to us? "Hold My Hand" wasn't exactly a smash hit, and lets not pretend that the "general public" thought it was either. Once it hit the radio stations the common sentiment from the general public was that it sounded dated. How many times was it featured on the 106 & Park countdown, which caters to the younger fans, and how high did it reach?

I agree, it definitely wasn't a smash hit but in all honesty, Hold My Hand did alright. In December of '10, I recall it spending a while in the top #10 on iTunes and I would occasionally hear it on the radio. Maybe it was more of a hit in my country I suppose.

I may get crap for this next section, but I'm just going to be as respectfully honest as I can.

In regards to why you ask why a handful of people think its acceptable about what happened, I think a lot of people have moved on and stopped caring. Personally, and this applies to me and some MJ fans I know personally irl, while we were definitely questioning it at the time, we have since moved on because it was a pretty forgettable album in all honesty.

None of my MJ friends really listen to it anymore and it's evident Sony are not going to remove it from the catalogue (has a label ever actually done that before, out of curiosity ?). Sony and the Estate have definitely moved on considering it was nearly 3 years ago and the Estate seemed to have learnt their lesson too. They left all the unreleased tracks on Bad 25 alone, making a point about how they were untouched. There's no way in hell they're going to release any more tracks that have questionable vocals.

If you're wondering why Sony included it in that 'Extras' album on iTunes, it's because they were including the whole Michael album in there. It's part of the Michael album, hence Sony are going to include these 3 tracks. Don't get me wrong, we'd definitely prefer having different songs on there that were unmistakably Michael, and it isn't really acceptable, but it has been almost 3 years since the album came out. Combining the facts that it is obvious that Sony and the Estate have moved on, they seem to have learnt their mistake, and the album is pretty forgettable, we have just moved on and it's pointless continually making a big deal about it.

So really, I don't think that they think it's acceptable as such, I just think a lot of people have moved on and stopped caring for the aforementioned reasons.

I'll probably get crap for that but as I said, I'm just trying to be as truthfully honest as I can.

Michael was devastated the song leaked initially. You really think he would've found it suitable to put on a new studio album, in which the Estate-finished version, had more vocals from the featured artist than the namesake ofthe album itself? Really?

I think he definitely would have put it on his next studio album. We wouldn't know however whether MJ would have minded if there were more or less Akon vocals on the track. He may have talked about this with Akon in the studio. We'll never know. HOWEVER, I do wish there was more vocals by MJ on the track than Akon.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Calling the "Michael" album a success is a fallacy. Fact of the matter is, the general public didn't care for it. And for those that did, they were put off by the Cascio debacle. Which by the time it completed it's news rounds had already tainted the album for the rest of the "general public".

It was a minor success, considering the circumstances behind it, the artist it was for, etc. It sold about 1.7 million copies worldwide and got generally decent reviews from critics. The general public cared about it -- I can't tell you how many times I've gone to my local Walmart or Target and have seen people buying the album -- but word of mouth is a big indicator. I also can't tell you how many times I've heard people say, "Some of these tracks aren't Michael. Don't get it." and saw a person put the album back on the shelf.

Smh, what type of artists estate doesn't put out music for its fans? None. So why is it now acceptable to the handful of people in this thread that it's happened to us? "Hold My Hand" wasn't exactly a smash hit, and lets not pretend that the "general public" thought it was either. Once it hit the radio stations the common sentiment from the general public was that it sounded dated. How many times was it featured on the 106 & Park countdown, which caters to the younger fans, and how high did it reach?

Hold My Hand wasn't a hit because a) there was no big unveiling, no big media attention or anything of the sorts, b) many people have already heard the song before and didn't feel like hearing it again and c) it did indeed sound slightly dated. It SOUNDED like a 2008 song, and a good one at that. And the single DID sell well in several countries. It reached number one in Spain, as well as the top ten in Poland (2), Denmark (3), UK R&B charts (3), Italy (4), New Zealand (6), Germany (7), Spain (7), Belgium (8), Sweden (8), Austria (9), Norway (9), Switzerland (9), Belgium (10), Hungary (10) and the UK (10). It sold generally well everywhere else. In the United States it was a slight disappointment, truth be told. It struggled to 39 on the charts and 33 on the R&B/Hip Hop charts.

But let's not forget, that's in the United States. Michael Jackson has almost no commercial standing here. The only times sales were high for him were in the months after he died. After that everything dropped off the map. Even Bad 25 -- it sold phenomenally overseas but here it was somewhere in the top 20s. It's sad, but that's life I suppose.

Michael was devastated the song leaked initially. You really think he would've found it suitable to put on a new studio album, in which the Estate-finished version, had more vocals from the featured artist than the namesake ofthe album itself? Really?

He would. He was working on it in his last few years and wanted to put it on his next album. The last time he worked on it, if memory serves me correctly, was around September/October 2008. He left notes behind, put it on several lists of songs he wanted to finish in London (a few of which the general public has yet to see), and mentioned it to several collaborators. Had he lived, I'm almost positive we would have seen it released.

Regarding the vocals, there are more Akon vocals because it was originally recorded for Akon's album; therefore, there would be less MJ vocals.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Pretty sure those are the shipping numbers, which aren't quite the same as units sold, but I could be mistaken. Yes, Michael went platinum in the US but that also doesn't make a album a commercial success, because that factors in with the units sold over time, and there isn't a deadline for album certifications. There's no such thing as "being a success at first", if a album sells strong for the first week or so, thenplummets, they don't count that first week of success. Michael hasn't topped the This Is It album as far as North America goes in first week sales, you wouldn't expect that in a Greatest Hits Vs. New Studio album scenario.

And the general public was very aware of the Cascio debacle, don't fool yourself. Secondly, because YOU no longer care, doesn't mean the estate shouldn't. As simply put, they should make music for Michaels fans the way we want to hear them, not for casual listeners looking for a catchy tune. Because I'm willing to bet that Michaels music as he left it, will do a better job at drawing new fans than any unfinished, Estate produced record.

And you misunderstood my Hold My Hand statement. As said, this was a song Michael was still working on, it was a supposed duet. IJCSLY is a duet, the estate finished HMH is no duet. And my question was, do you believe that Michael would have preferred the current HMH where he's basically a featured artist on his first new studio album? If you do so, I simply disagree.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Pretty sure those are the shipping numbers, which aren't quite the same as units sold, but I could be mistaken. Yes, Michael went platinum in the US but that also doesn't make a album a commercial success, because that factors in with the units sold over time, and there isn't a deadline for album certifications. There's no such thing as "being a success at first", if a album sells strong for the first week or so, thenplummets, they don't count that first week of success. Michael hasn't topped the This Is It album as far as North America goes in first week sales, you wouldn't expect that in a Greatest Hits Vs. New Studio album scenario.

Michael shipped three million copies worldwide in late November/early December 2010, 900,000 of which were in the United States. It sold well overseas but plummeted in the United States, for the reasons I've already stated. Worldwide the album has sold about 1.7 million copies, but in the United States the actual amount is somewhere around 450,000-500,000, if not less. It reached Platinum status in twelve countries, and Gold in eight others.

As a whole, the album is a modest success, when you consider the Cascio fiasco, the complete lack of promotion and the public's general dislike of the artist himself. Of course Michael hasn't topped This Is It yet; I highly doubt he ever will. This Is It was riding on his death wave and people ran to it. Michael was a project released a year and a half after he died; of course people aren't going to flock to it as much.

And the general public was very aware of the Cascio debacle, don't fool yourself. Secondly, because YOU no longer care, doesn't mean the estate shouldn't. As simply put, they should make music for Michaels fans the way we want to hear them, not for casual listeners looking for a catchy tune. Because I'm willing to bet that Michaels music as he left it, will do a better job at drawing new fans than any unfinished, Estate produced record.

And the estate is aware of that. Look at Michael, then at Bad 25. The first album was focused at the casual listener and attempted to be contemporary, and the fans were outraged. The second album gave us exactly what Michael had left behind, and fans (for the most part) adore it. They understand now what we want and they're going to give it to us.

And you misunderstood my Hold My Hand statement. As said, this was a song Michael was still working on, it was a supposed duet. IJCSLY is a duet, the estate finished HMH is no duet. And my question was, do you believe that Michael would have preferred the current HMH where he's basically a featured artist on his first new studio album? If you do so, I simply disagree.

No version of HMH is a duet. There will never be a version of HMH that is a true duet because, quite frankly, Michael didn't record more vocals. It's my understanding that we've heard all the vocals he ever recorded (save for a few alternate takes).

Regarding your question, no I do not. I do think that, had the album cut appeared on Akon's album, Michael would have been more than satisfied because, as you stated, he sounded like a featured artist. But on his own album, I'm sure he would have recorded more vocals, taken the lead, etc. But then again, who are we to say? We don't know what Michael would have wanted, and I figure speculating is meaningless. I think, given the circumstances, the album cut is great.

 

[Moromete]

Somehow off topic: "Monster" single and remixes. What Jody told me:

"I was hired by sony music to remix it and then they switched singles and went with Hollywood Tonight as the single, which then I was offered to remix as well. It happens all the time. I just never leak them, in this case my co production partner Chris Cox posted the sample online."

 

[Korgnex]

Michael shipped three million copies worldwide in late November/early December 2010, 900,000 of which were in the United States. It sold well overseas but plummeted in the United States, for the reasons I've already stated. Worldwide the album has sold about 1.7 million copies, but in the United States the actual amount is somewhere around 450,000-500,000, if not less.

Just saying: Michael has an RIAA Platinum certification of 1,000,000 sold copies in the USA from January 2011. Compare that eg with Madonna's MDNA which only managed to sell 500,000 copies over 6 months in the USA and that's an album that was supported by a tour.
Worldwide Michael has sold >2.6 million copies as confirmed by Michael's estate. Hold My Hand was a modest success, especially on the European market (2 weeks #1 radio airplay in Germany was impressive for that Akon song that only featured MJ). There was literally no further promo after that. The music videos just didn't have much impact on casual listeners. Had they used the demo of Hollywood Tonight it would not even have managed to become a #1 club hit in the USA. No comment about Behind The Mask.

Behind The Mask and Much Too Soon are probably the strongest (non-controversial) songs on the album (along with Best Of Joy), yet both released versions have not much in common with Michael's original work on these songs.