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Michael - The Great Album Debate

There was a roadmap. It was the huge list of songs Michael left in the home where he died. And no where does it mention any Cascio tracks. And we all know why.
 
StellaJackson said:
There was a roadmap. It was the huge list of songs Michael left in the home where he died. And no where does it mention any Cascio tracks. And we all know why.
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LOL, so true. Didn't think about it in these terms until now. Yeah, there was a roadmap, sadly, and it wasn't followed.
 
Yeah, there was a "roadmap", or at least songs MJ was working on/ going to work on. And not only a handful of songs. MANY handful of songs.

4 songs out of the whole list was released, but I'm not counting the butchered Hollywood Tonight mix by Teddy and the other BJ mix.

TWYLM
BOJ
HMH
HT (butchered)

That's it. Out of all the songs. Why even pick TWYLM when it's already released on TUC? They are morons.

Check my post:

Pentum said:
I was actually going to post this just now in another thread but after looking for the old list from the Murray footage, I saw you already posted it.

I managed to make out most of them, and many of them are already on the old list from the Murray footage. The ones marked with bold are new.

michael-jackson-evidence-photos-inside-death-house-drugs-propofol-0319-480w.jpg

PAGE 1:

1. Lady of Summer
2. Hollywood Tonight
3. Shut Up And Dance
4. Rock Tonight
5. Adore You
6. Breathe
7. I Am That one
8. Everybody Wants To Be A Movie Star
9. Beautiful Girl
10. MJJ Barry Gibb Song
11. Scared of Moon?
12. Thank Heaven
13. Ghost of Another Lover
14. Gloucestershire

PAGE 2:

15. Lonely Bird???
16. Broken Chair
17. Red Eye
18. The Way You Love Me
19. The Loser
20. Best of Joy
21. D.I.E
22. Is She Coming Back
23. Dark Lady H2O
24. Bottom of My Heart
25. Hold My Hand
26. Remember What I Told You
27. Can't Stop Loving You
28. Silent Spring
29. You Were There
30. Lady Of Summer (again)



My old post on the old notes (updated with a better picture of the old list):


michael-jackson-evidence-photos-inside-death-house-drugs-propofol-0317-480w.jpg

vlcsnap2011111200h38m40.png




First Note:

1. The Way You Love Me
2. The Loser
3. Best Of Joy
4. Is She Coming Back (Freez?)
5. D.I.E
6. Dark Lady
7. H2O
8. Bottom Of My Heart
9. Hold My Hand
10. Remember What I Told You
11. Can't Stop Lovin You
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At least they used her lyrics. It sounds nice, and its a good tribute imo. Why let lyric sheets go to waste?
 
I'm sure all of these songs have some vocals, maybe just chorus and no verses or chorus and one or two verses. MJ never composed in classic way. He always sang melody and mumbled lyrics into a tape recorder.

So they don't need to have another vocalist instead of MJ, they could either release the songs as they are (demos) or make a duet album with current artists like Chris, Gaga, Timberlake.. and great singers like Stevie and Mariah.. which they planned at some point (before MICHAEL disaster). Or do both which is the best choice. Disc one - Duets. Disc two - original demos.

I would like to hear Ne-Yo singing his songs he had written for MJ. He had plans to release such album. Don't know what happened with that. I would buy that.
 
I am willing to bet there's at least another album's worth of MJ material that would be worthwhile to be remixed and released. There's just gotta be, with the list of material that he has floating out there. I'm sure they're not ALL mumblings. Or even an EP, why does it always have to be a full album?

edit; PLEASE release I Am The Loser on the next release. I need to hear that song. :) Thanks.
 
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Aniram said:
I am willing to bet there's at least another album's worth of MJ material that would be worthwhile to be remixed and released. There's just gotta be, with the list of material that he has floating out there. I'm sure they're not ALL mumblings. Or even an EP, why does it always have to be a full album?

edit; PLEASE release I Am The Loser on the next release. I need to hear that song. :) Thanks.
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I would say 2 full albums (20 songs). Let's not forget will.i.am songs. 6 songs!! from 2006-2007.
 
I would say more than that, when counting songs that are probably less than 50% finished... Just look at that list I posted above. Then think of all the Darkchild songs + Will.I.Am songs + songs that we don't even know about (like we didn't before we saw that list) + demos from earlier eras. What worries me is that the estate, they seem to not have these things under control. When Teddy Riley has a song that should be in the vault - and he's not even giving them the song - things are not right.
 
Aniram said:
I am willing to bet there's at least another album's worth of MJ material that would be worthwhile to be remixed and released. There's just gotta be, with the list of material that he has floating out there. I'm sure they're not ALL mumblings. Or even an EP, why does it always have to be a full album?

edit; PLEASE release I Am The Loser on the next release. I need to hear that song. :) Thanks.
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Oh definitely. You have heaps of songs that sound good already...

-Slave to the Rhythm
-Escape/Xscape
-Do You Know Where Your Children Are (honestly if they released this, I think it would be best if they renamed to it 'Do You Know (12 O'Clock)' or something.)
-Blue Gangster
-A Place With No Name (I love the original version by America ! I really hope this is released)
-Serious Effect
-She Got It
-If You Don't Love Me

Those are just the songs off the top of my head. Then you have the ones he did with Freddie Mercury, which were confirmed recently by no other than Brian May himself that they were being worked on.
-State of Shock
-Victory
-There Must Be More To Life Than This

Hell, an EP between FM and MJ would be fantastic. I believe Freddie said they only did 3 songs, so maybe they could release some extras on the EP too such as acapellas or perhaps some remixes or something.

They could definitely release at least another good album or two of unreleased MJ material :D
 
Pentum said:
I would say more than that, when counting songs that are probably less than 50% finished... Just look at that list I posted above. Then think of all the Darkchild songs + Will.I.Am songs + songs that we don't even know about (like we didn't before we saw that list) + demos from earlier eras. What worries me is that the estate, they seem to not have these things under control. When Teddy Riley has a song that should be in the vault - and he's not even giving them the song - things are not right.
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I meant 20 songs that are finished (Blue Gangsta, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, Escape..) or almost finished like Hollywood Tonight was. If we count all the demos and the songs from the list then we can count around 100 songs. I think 20 songs can be released on 2 strong albums with modern sound, singles, music videos, promotion, BIG. And there is no need for guest vocalists meaning Michael recorded at least 2 verses, chorus and some ad-libs (like Hollywood Tonight). I think will.i.am songs are in that state of completion with few of them being 100% completed.

Other songs with incomplete vocals (I think most of the songs from that list and RedOne songs) can be released on 2 more Duet albums.

Demos that can't be released as finished songs can be always released for the fans on compilations, box-sets and anniversary editions (song like Free on Bad 25 for example)
 
HIStoric said:
Oh definitely. You have heaps of songs that sound good already...

-Slave to the Rhythm
-Escape/Xscape
-Do You Know Where Your Children Are (honestly if they released this, I think it would be best if they renamed to it 'Do You Know (12 O'Clock)' or something.)
-Blue Gangster
-A Place With No Name (I love the original version by America ! I really hope this is released)
-Serious Effect
-She Got It
-If You Don't Love Me

Those are just the songs off the top of my head. Then you have the ones he did with Freddie Mercury, which were confirmed recently by no other than Brian May himself that they were being worked on.
-State of Shock
-Victory
-There Must Be More To Life Than This

Hell, an EP between FM and MJ would be fantastic. I believe Freddie said they only did 3 songs, so maybe they could release some extras on the EP too such as acapellas or perhaps some remixes or something.

They could definitely release at least another good album or two of unreleased MJ material :D
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Regarding the EP between FM and MJ... Fantastic idea.

Why not?

I mean, they could make a release which include the 3 songs + audio stuff + some video stuff. There must be more stuff than just the 3 songs and a few pictures from the days they worked together. It was MJ and FM!


OnirMJ said:
I meant 20 songs that are finished (Blue Gangsta, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, Escape..) or almost finished like Hollywood Tonight was. If we count all the demos and the songs from the list then we can count around 100 songs. I think 20 songs can be released on 2 strong albums with modern sound, singles, music videos, promotion, BIG. And there is no need for guest vocalists meaning Michael recorded at least 2 verses, chorus and some ad-libs (like Hollywood Tonight). I think will.i.am songs are in that state of completion with few of them being 100% completed.

Other songs with incomplete vocals (I think most of the songs from that list and RedOne songs) can be released on 2 more Duet albums.

Demos that can't be released as finished songs can be always released for the fans on compilations, box-sets and anniversary editions (song like Free on Bad 25 for example)
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I guess this is all very subjective when it comes to finished songs. HT was nowhere finished to be honest.

HT is just as finished as Fall Again IMO, and that song was done in one take.

But I get what you are trying to say. Finished as in, hard to notice for the general that it's not finished. I still believe there are more than 20 songs.


The question is - is it really a point in releasing new albums that are suppose to be a new studio album?

For me personally, they should never do this again. Only box-sets, anniversary editions, itunes specials, and so on.

No more fake "brand new MJ album, representing MJ's vision"
 
Pentum said:
I guess this is all very subjective when it comes to finished songs. HT was nowhere finished to be honest.

HT is just as finished as Fall Again IMO, and that song was done in one take.

But I get what you are trying to say. Finished as in, hard to notice for the general that it's not finished. I still believe there are more than 20 songs.


The question is - is it really a point in releasing new albums that are suppose to be a new studio album?

For me personally, they should never do this again. Only box-sets, anniversary editions, itunes specials, and so on.

No more fake "brand new MJ album, representing MJ's vision"
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I know HT was not finished, but it was releasable as a new song. I believe Neff-U version is amazing. That's what I meant when I said (2 verses, a chorus and ad-libs = releasable song in my opinion).

I am for brand new MJ album, representing MJ's vision but without " " signs.. meaning true MJ vision. They can do that, it's not that hard. Bruce Swedein & Michael Durham Prince can do that in my opinion. And other producers who originally worked on those tracks (Rodney Jerkins to do his songs, will.i.am his songs, RedOne his..). And not Teddy Riley and John McClain finishing work from somebody else! I really like what Akon did with Hold My Hand on MICHAEL album. That should be an example for others.
 
Here's examples of what releases I'd like to see:

MJ - The Lost Sessions - Album of unreleased Vince tracks done with Rodney Jerkins (he made this name up)
Michael Prince & Brad Bauxer collection - songs done with MP or/and BB
Different eras anniversary editions or just unreleased songs & audio, like the Dangerous demos, and so on
Will I Am Sessions

and so on

none of them actually being "the new mj album", but just a release. They don't even need to have more than 6-7 songs
 
I'm still scared we will get:

MJ - The Sessions That Never Happened - Album of unreleased Cascio tracks

It would be cool to have all these sessions you mentioned, but that would not happen anytime soon. Especially with Rodney Jerkins and will.i.am songs. Those songs with little studio work can sound very current and become major hits. I'm sure they'll try to make some money from it and I'm OK with that as long as original producers work on the tracks.
 
His pitch control is certainly comparable to Malachi's. Sheesh.
 
Reaching back to the older comments, here we go. (Sorry for the long post!)

OnirMJ said:
I would say 2 full albums (20 songs). Let's not forget will.i.am songs. 6 songs!! from 2006-2007.
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Considering the estate handles things wisely for the future, there is much more material to be released. More than two albums. And that's just material the fan base hasn't heard yet. As it's been stated already there are demo recordings + a number of songs that haven't been registered and aren't acknowledged to exist by the public. But there is also a substantial amount of material the estate DOESN'T have, particularly material recorded between 2002 and 2009 that engineers and producers simply won't hand over.

Also, will.i.am only have four songs complete enough for release, one of which only has about 80% of vocals recorded and would require editing to some extent.

Pentum said:
When Teddy Riley has a song that should be in the vault - and he's not even giving them the song - things are not right.
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This surprises me actually. I'm almost certain the law says that the estate has the legal ability to demand access to any song recorded on Sony's time. Joy was recorded in 1990, so unless Michael and Teddy Riley tracked it at an outside studio or something of the sorts, the estate should have been able to get it off of him. Again, that's assuming that 1) Teddy didn't already lose or destroy the tape and 2) that it existed to begin with. We all know that Teddy isn't exactly the most noteworthy collaborator.

OnirMJ said:
I meant 20 songs that are finished (Blue Gangsta, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, Escape..) or almost finished like Hollywood Tonight was. If we count all the demos and the songs from the list then we can count around 100 songs. I think 20 songs can be released on 2 strong albums with modern sound, singles, music videos, promotion, BIG. And there is no need for guest vocalists meaning Michael recorded at least 2 verses, chorus and some ad-libs (like Hollywood Tonight). I think will.i.am songs are in that state of completion with few of them being 100% completed.

Other songs with incomplete vocals (I think most of the songs from that list and RedOne songs) can be released on 2 more Duet albums.

Demos that can't be released as finished songs can be always released for the fans on compilations, box-sets and anniversary editions (song like Free on Bad 25 for example)
Click to expand...

There are dozens upon dozens of songs that really don't need much work. With Michael's standards, songs/demos that only have 60% of vocals recorded could be crafted together well. The estate easily could have removed some of Michael's mumbling from the Hollywood Tonight demo and issued that as a finalized song, and I would have no problem with that because it really isn't interfering with Michael's initial vision.

Roughly four RedOne songs have enough vocals to be issued on their own, so that's no problem. A duets album should only be issued when the vault has run nearly dry.

OnirMJ said:
I am for brand new MJ album, representing MJ's vision but without " " signs.. meaning true MJ vision. They can do that, it's not that hard. Bruce Swedein & Michael Durham Prince can do that in my opinion. And other producers who originally worked on those tracks (Rodney Jerkins to do his songs, will.i.am his songs, RedOne his..). And not Teddy Riley and John McClain finishing work from somebody else! I really like what Akon did with Hold My Hand on MICHAEL album. That should be an example for others.
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A new Michael album would be accepted, considering they pull it off right. Like you said, the estate should NOT hand off material to another producer. Brad Buxer didn't have any say in the album version of Hollywood Tonight, despite co-producing the original recording! Unless a track requires some sort of editing to make it feel complete, leave it alone. Look at Bad 25. Six songs, untouched, just as Michael left them. Sure, some fans ask for more and there are one or two songs some don't like, but that's human nature. The estate got some of the biggest praise in three years JUST with those six songs.

In the case where a producer would need to add something new to the track, observe Akon's Hold My Hand. There are a few new elements here and there, but the song is basically exactly the same as the original recording. Whereas the demo version of Hollywood Tonight and the album version are complete opposites.
 
Good job. Pentum & Dorian. It still amazes me from time to time how much effort they went through to make these songs sound like Michael and still couldn't quite get it right. Kind've makes all the effort and time they put in pretty worthless.
 
I feel sad this album has a lot of hate against it because of the Cascio tracks, since some songs in it are just amazing.

"(I like) the way you love me" just sounds beautiful... I almost broke down into tears when I heard it for the first time. That was MJ, no doubt.
"Hold my hand" was alright, I think it definitely sounds a lot more like an Akon song than a MJ song, though. I think that if MJ lived his influence would've caused the song to come out very different.
"Hollywood tonight"... I have mixed feelings about this. In a way I liked the way they included MJ's beatboxing in it but in another way I don't, since that was meant to be an instrument of some kind (I think, since MJ usually specified what instruments he wanted in the recording). At the same time, I still really like the song.
"Behind the mask" also would've come out very differently, imo, if MJ had lived and had more influence over the song.
"Best of Joy" is a song I feel MJ would've altered a bit more but I like how you can here his little finger clicks in the beginning. In a way, I like how they kept these little things in because it's more MJ.
"Much too soon" is very soft... It reminds me of "Scared of the Moon", which is also a very soft, somewhat comforting song. "Much too soon" is more sad, a very heartbreaking song imo... However, it sounds more like MJ is reflecting over this, so the sadness is not a sudden sharp emotion. More, you slowly realise the depth of it through the song.
"(I can't make it) another day" sounds decent but, like the others, would've come out differently if MJ had lived. I don't think they did a bad job with it, though.

Honestly, I actually like the Cascio songs (although I agree they're fake) but I'd prefer it if they weren't included in the album. Maybe released separately or something or not at all, I don't know. If only they weren't, those real good songs would've got the recognition they deserved. It's also clear they used snippets of actual MJ songs in there too.
 
I don't think Michael was TOO bad of an album, unfortunately the Cascio track controversy seemed to completely derailed everything. It is pretty forgettable though, to be honest. Some of the tracks are pretty good, I liked Hold My Hand (the best on that album no doubt), Hollywood Tonight, Monster, Breaking News, Behind the Mask and Much Too Soon. While I don't really listen to it, I also like how Best of Joy was one of the last songs recorded by him.

I'm still on the fence with the authenticity of the Cascio tracks to be honest. They did explain they had to do some processing to it, "With the Melodyne we actually move the stuff up which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still hearing the true Michael Jackson" and back then, that satisfied me.

Sony handled the situation pretty poorly though. They shouldn't have included the tracks at all (theres heaps more better tracks with finished vocals), and they should've either released footage of MJ performing it (if there is any), or the raw unprocessed vocals. As I said, I'm on the fence and I'd wouldn't be lying to be honest if I said I didn't really care anymore.

But yeah, authenticity issue aside, it's an alright album. Forgettable, but alright. I'd probably give it 3/5 or something. I look forward to the next album with new material :)

Oh and in regards to whether they should update the instrumental or not, YES!!!!! Look, we all want Michael to chart again. With him not here to promote the material, it's already difficult to get him on there. If we release 80s sounding music, the chances of it charting will be rather little. What they should do is get CREDIBLE producers etc, those who worked with MJ and/or are strongly renowned in the musical industry to work on the tracks. The instrumental on the leaked version of 'Slave to the Rhythm' was a recently-produced instrumental I believe and look how awesome that was.

THEN they could perhaps release a Deluxe Edition and on the 2nd disc, they could have some more songs perhaps or something, and then include the original versions of these songs as Michael had them. Thus satisfying the fans, and also helping get MJ's music out there to the modern crowd.

Oh and Sony, actually promote the album this time. There wasn't much decent promotion for Michael and it fell out pretty quickly. Immortal's had some pretty good advertising, I've seen it on TV, newspapers, articles in very popular newspapers (mainly because Cirque has given them previews etc), and I've actually heard people talking about it, and I know a number of people who aren't big MJ fans who have expressed interest in it, some even have tickets.

So that's just my little rant on the album and future projects :)
 
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