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Michael jackson - jackson movie uses old material

ginvid said:
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
I agree with you 100%. According to this person Beardon is a fool and MJ's performances (at least his most recent) were fraudulent, lazy, unacceptable, deceptive, and he has no self respect. Are you even a fan at all? You are so unyielding in your opionions as to not even allow any deviation for extenuating circumstances. Everything is black or white. Though you are entitled to your opinion, and by all means think as you will, but, that is a very narrow way to live your life.
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Just like how MJ cant do any wrong in most of his fans eyes?

Your so quick to call MJlover narrow minded, when you are completely blind to the fact that you are being narrow minded yourself. A lot of what MJlover is saying could easily be true, but youd never even consider that because its negative towards MJ.

MJlover just isnt blinded by love like the rest of you, doesnt mean he or she isnt a fan.

People allways use the laryngitis thing. On the Dangerous Tour when people ask why his voice was bad on WBSS, and people say he had laryngitis. Then they say he lip synched on the HIStory Tour because he had laryngitis. He had laryngitis for 5 years?

If Michael couldnt sing live on the HIStory Tour then he shouldnt have done it :\ Simple as that. His voice was worst at the Seoul concert, there was something VERY off with him that whole show actually. Must have been some kind of illness.
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L.T.D said:
ginvid said:
Just like how MJ cant do any wrong in most of his fans eyes?

Your so quick to call MJlover narrow minded, when you are completely blind to the fact that you are being narrow minded yourself. A lot of what MJlover is saying could easily be true, but youd never even consider that because its negative towards MJ.

MJlover just isnt blinded by love like the rest of you, doesnt mean he or she isnt a fan.

People allways use the laryngitis thing. On the Dangerous Tour when people ask why his voice was bad on WBSS, and people say he had laryngitis. Then they say he lip synched on the HIStory Tour because he had laryngitis. He had laryngitis for 5 years?

If Michael couldnt sing live on the HIStory Tour then he shouldnt have done it :\ Simple as that. His voice was worst at the Seoul concert, there was something VERY off with him that whole show actually. Must have been some kind of illness.
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I agree with you that there are people on here that just won't hear any criticism but i can understand why, we all read so much crap about him in the papers that it is hard to come on here and read more negative comments, even if there is a lot of truth in them, i personally hate the fact that he mimed History. I was at it in Dublin and at the time i would have argued he didn't mime one song but on watching video's since i have to admit he did mime a lot. I agree the whole laryngitis thing could not be true and i actually reckon the people who are saying do not really believe it themselves. He simple made a bad decision when deciding to mime, i wish he hadn't but i can accept it and still be a fan and it was still the best concert i was ever at.
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As much as we loved Michael and he loved us back, I'm sure he would've wanted to put on a show and not have to cancel them due to a medical illness like laryngitis. And personally speaking, I'd be blessed from his presence and just witnessing the show than worry about him miming songs, when at that time, he had been performing 100% live for the majority of his life.
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
As much as we loved Michael and he loved us back, I'm sure he would've wanted to put on a show and not have to cancel them due to a medical illness like laryngitis. And personally speaking, I'd be blessed from his presence and just witnessing the show than worry about him miming songs, when at that time, he had been performing 100% live for the majority of his life.
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Actually, he hadn't.

A lot of the J5 and Jacksons TV performances are mimed. By Dangerous era most of his TV performances are mimed as well.

Motown 25 is mimed. Grammys 88 is 80% mimed. MTV 10th anniversary was mimed. Soul Train Awards were mimed. MTV 95 was mimed.

Most of the big performances in his career were mimed.

The tours were totally live until the second leg of Bad.

There are two big holes in the laryngitis story.

Number one: Nobody has laryngitis for two years.

Number two: People with laryngitis don't scream 'Hoooooooooo!' at the top of their lungs ten times a night. They couldn't if they wanted to.

If MJ had laryngitis on the HIStory Tour then he wouldn't have been allowed to sing anything. But every night he sang WBSS and the J5 medley, as well as shrieking 'HOOOOOO!' all the time in longs like Beat It, WBSS, HIStory etc.
 
mjlover1988 said:
Actually, he hadn't.

A lot of the J5 and Jacksons TV performances are mimed. By Dangerous era most of his TV performances are mimed as well.

Motown 25 is mimed. Grammys 88 is 80% mimed. MTV 10th anniversary was mimed. Soul Train Awards were mimed. MTV 95 was mimed.

Most of the big performances in his career were mimed.

The tours were totally live until the second leg of Bad.

There are two big holes in the laryngitis story.

Number one: Nobody has laryngitis for two years.

Number two: People with laryngitis don't scream 'Hoooooooooo!' at the top of their lungs ten times a night. They couldn't if they wanted to.

If MJ had laryngitis on the HIStory Tour then he wouldn't have been allowed to sing anything. But every night he sang WBSS and the J5 medley, as well as shrieking 'HOOOOOO!' all the time in longs like Beat It, WBSS, HIStory etc.
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Most people don't sing when they are doing TV performances, look at beyonce at the Music Video Awards, she didn't even have a mike for part of it just like michael in 95.
 
I think I recognize you from gearslutz. I agree, there was lots of miming all the way along from early days. Parts of the HIStory Tour really make me wonder what was going on with him at that time. I don't think laryngitis can explain it.

Surely the J5 part of Motown 25 wasn't mimed though?

I wish Michael had done more recorded performances live, there's just no comparison. Look how much everyone has loved the TII live performances. Personally, I'd give up every pyrotechnic and razzle dazzle for more live singing from Michael. And he can sing and dance live, he'd done it lots of times in the past on tours.

Still I am so happy that we have TII as a last record of his live singing, even if not every minute of it is live.

mjlover1988 said:
Actually, he hadn't.

A lot of the J5 and Jacksons TV performances are mimed. By Dangerous era most of his TV performances are mimed as well.

Motown 25 is mimed. Grammys 88 is 80% mimed. MTV 10th anniversary was mimed. Soul Train Awards were mimed. MTV 95 was mimed.

Most of the big performances in his career were mimed.

The tours were totally live until the second leg of Bad.

There are two big holes in the laryngitis story.

Number one: Nobody has laryngitis for two years.

Number two: People with laryngitis don't scream 'Hoooooooooo!' at the top of their lungs ten times a night. They couldn't if they wanted to.

If MJ had laryngitis on the HIStory Tour then he wouldn't have been allowed to sing anything. But every night he sang WBSS and the J5 medley, as well as shrieking 'HOOOOOO!' all the time in longs like Beat It, WBSS, HIStory etc.
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L.T.D said:
ginvid said:
Just like how MJ cant do any wrong in most of his fans eyes?

Your so quick to call MJlover narrow minded, when you are completely blind to the fact that you are being narrow minded yourself. A lot of what MJlover is saying could easily be true, but youd never even consider that because its negative towards MJ.

MJlover just isnt blinded by love like the rest of you, doesnt mean he or she isnt a fan.

People allways use the laryngitis thing. On the Dangerous Tour when people ask why his voice was bad on WBSS, and people say he had laryngitis. Then they say he lip synched on the HIStory Tour because he had laryngitis. He had laryngitis for 5 years?

If Michael couldnt sing live on the HIStory Tour then he shouldnt have done it :\ Simple as that. His voice was worst at the Seoul concert, there was something VERY off with him that whole show actually. Must have been some kind of illness.
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You need to back up and compose yourself. I did not say I thought he could do no wrong. Where do you get I am narrowminded? Reread and get some comprehension. I do believe MJ can do wrong, I believe he has done many things I do not agree with. You are so quick to push your own agenda you can't even correctly ascertain what I was saying in my post.

She was not called narrow minded because she thought MJ lipsynched, (First she wasn't called that by me), I said viewing everything as black and white with no room for extenuating circumstances was narrow. Because she said no one should mime anything at anytime under any circumstance; and, if they did they were lazy and unacceptable. Get it right.

And because most of her posts were neg against him andf she basically called him a fraud, a charlaten, and possessing no self respect, that I asked her if she was a fan. If I took offense at anybody saying MJ lipsynched I would have questioned you as well. But you can talk about your opinion without being disrespectful to MJ or Bearden. I thought you were respectful and many others were as well so why not let people have their opinion. Everything doesn't have to be an argument.

Also I specifically told her I was refering to TII and the lipsynching there. I don't know about the History tour, I never saw it. Nor do I think a whole tour should be lipsynched, but if you bothered to read my other posts you can see I said she and I could agree to disagree but where visuals are more stunning or if the show was elevated to a kind of art, I personnally could take the lipsynching. Get yourself correct.

And how can everything she says be true when it is her opinion concerning her experience. It does not encompass everyone. She can have her opinion, I will have mine, you can have yours. This is a forum with people from all walks of life and many experiences. But your experience does not have to be the measure for everyone else.
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mjlover1988 said:
Actually, he hadn't.

A lot of the J5 and Jacksons TV performances are mimed. By Dangerous era most of his TV performances are mimed as well.

Motown 25 is mimed. Grammys 88 is 80% mimed. MTV 10th anniversary was mimed. Soul Train Awards were mimed. MTV 95 was mimed.

Most of the big performances in his career were mimed.

The tours were totally live until the second leg of Bad.

There are two big holes in the laryngitis story.

Number one: Nobody has laryngitis for two years.

Number two: People with laryngitis don't scream 'Hoooooooooo!' at the top of their lungs ten times a night. They couldn't if they wanted to.

If MJ had laryngitis on the HIStory Tour then he wouldn't have been allowed to sing anything. But every night he sang WBSS and the J5 medley, as well as shrieking 'HOOOOOO!' all the time in longs like Beat It, WBSS, HIStory etc.
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I'm referring to touring, Triumph, Victory, BAD, even the early Jacksons performances they did in Mexico, were live. Parts of Dangerous was mimed and a large portion of History.
 
Annie123 said:
I think I recognize you from gearslutz. I agree, there was lots of miming all the way along from early days. Parts of the HIStory Tour really make me wonder what was going on with him at that time. I don't think laryngitis can explain it.

Surely the J5 part of Motown 25 wasn't mimed though?

I wish Michael had done more recorded performances live, there's just no comparison. Look how much everyone has loved the TII live performances. Personally, I'd give up every pyrotechnic and razzle dazzle for more live singing from Michael. And he can sing and dance live, he'd done it lots of times in the past on tours.

Still I am so happy that we have TII as a last record of his live singing, even if not every minute of it is live.
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Great post.

Yea I post at gearslutz but I signed up too late and now only about one in ten questions gets answered. Those guys are fascinating.

MJ's Billie Jean performance was literally the only mimed song of the entire evening at Motown 25, I think. There could have been one more. But you're right, the J5 performance was live - and he sounded amazing, too.

I too would substitute every pyrotechnic and special effect for MJ's voice. That's why people fell in love with him. They heard him on the radio and bought his records. Back when he was putting out singles at Motown, his picture wasn't even on the front. It was just that glorious, soulful voice.

I find it heartbreaking to watch something like the HIStory Tour and see how much of it is lip-synched. The audience went to see him because they fell in love with his voice and they wanted to hear him sing.
 
ginvid said:
L.T.D said:
You need to back up and compose yourself. I did not say I thought he could do no wrong. Where do you get I am narrowminded? Reread and get some comprehension. I do believe MJ can do wrong, I believe he has done many things I do not agree with. You are so quick to push your own agenda you can't even correctly ascertain what I was saying in my post.

She was not called narrow minded because she thought MJ lipsynched, (First she wasn't called that by me), I said viewing everything as black and white with no room for extenuating circumstances was narrow. Because she said no one should mime anything at anytime under any circumstance; and, if they did they were lazy and unacceptable. Get it right.

And because most of her posts were neg against him andf she basically called him a fraud, a charlaten, and possessing no self respect, that I asked her if she was a fan. If I took offense at anybody saying MJ lipsynched I would have questioned you as well. But you can talk about your opinion without being disrespectful to MJ or Bearden. I thought you were respectful and many others were as well so why not let people have their opinion. Everything doesn't have to be an argument.

Also I specifically told her I was refering to TII and the lipsynching there. I don't know about the History tour, I never saw it. Nor do I think a whole tour should be lipsynched, but if you bothered to read my other posts you can see I said she and I could agree to disagree but where visuals are more stunning or if the show was elevated to a kind of art, I personnally could take the lipsynching. Get yourself correct.

And how can everything she says be true when it is her opinion concerning her experience. It does not encompass everyone. She can have her opinion, I will have mine, you can have yours. This is a forum with people from all walks of life and many experiences. But your experience does not have to be the measure for everyone else.
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I didnt say what MJlover was saying was true. I said it could easily be true but people are so narrow minded they wouldnt see that because its negative.

P.S I dont know who im quoting or not quoting, something appears to be wrong with the forums.
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the 2001 MSG televised concert (montage) had re recorded/dubbed vocals. Especially on the J5 stuff. Michael was very unhappy with his singing on both nights and to be honest he did sound pretty bad, and looked ill and was most likely drugged up with pain meds to get him through the 2 shows.

Before they edited the 2 shows together and televised it, Michael rerecorded some of his vocals and they retuned live vocals. Thats why he sounds good on the tv version but not live on the night.

And... I think drug addiction had a big part to play in his lack of energy/enthusiasm and live singing in the History Tour. You can clearly see he was out of it at the begining of some History tour shows. Seoul Korea 1996 for example. Notice how many odd mistakes he made during the Millitary stuff before TDCAU?

He's been doing that choreography every other night for months. It makes no sense that he would just forget what he was supposed to do. Prescription meds clouding his mind.
People have since stated that backstage, some nights MJ was too out of it to go on stage but still had to. I saw shows where this could certainly be true. Lip syncing would make it easier for him.

Just pointing out stuff that I haven't seen mentioned here.


P.S - i still love MJ and the History tour despite these issues. I saw many shows live. It was best time of my life.
 
Soul Brother said:
the 2001 MSG televised concert (montage) had re recorded/dubbed vocals. Especially on the J5 stuff. Michael was very unhappy with his singing on both nights and to be honest he did sound pretty bad, and looked ill and was most likely drugged up with pain meds to get him through the 2 shows.

Before they edited the 2 shows together and televised it, Michael rerecorded some of his vocals and they retuned live vocals. Thats why he sounds good on the tv version but not live on the night.

And... I think drug addiction had a big part to play in his lack of energy/enthusiasm and live singing in the History Tour. You can clearly see he was out of it at the begining of some History tour shows. Seoul Korea 1996 for example. Notice how many odd mistakes he made during the Millitary stuff before TDCAU?

He's been doing that choreography every other night for months. It makes no sense that he would just forget what he was supposed to do. Prescription meds clouding his mind.
People have since stated that backstage, some nights MJ was too out of it to go on stage but still had to. I saw shows where this could certainly be true. Lip syncing would make it easier for him.

Just pointing out stuff that I haven't seen mentioned here.


P.S - i still love MJ and the History tour despite these issues. I saw many shows live. It was best time of my life.
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I think he sounded ok on the 2nd night. The 1st night he was a lot worse, I dont know what was up with him. He completely messed up the moonwalk in Billie Jean and the YRMW performance was abysmal.
 
The majority of the solo section of MSG was mimed anyway. Only the adlibs were live.

David Gest saysin his book that MJ was on drugs during those shows. It is definitely visible during the first night, particularly the performance of YRMW. He tries to spin around at the beginning and almost falls over.
 
Yeah, drugs for sure and possibly being ill made the MSG shows not so good. What bothers me most about that is that the audience was full of his peers. Celebrities, recording artists of all generations were in the audience and for many, it was their first time seeing Michael live. They must have thought "Man, seeing MJ live doesn't live up to his reputation for being the ultimate live performer".

It's such a shame. I heard MJ collapsed after the first show too. Although thats not confirmed.

I wonder what was wrong with him? a bad cold? Pain from Lupus? Or just over did it on the anxiety and pain meds? Possibly a bad reaction to some botox in his top lip? Who knows.


-By the way, I'm not disrespecting Michael here. This stuff just makes me very curious. I like to know what was going on. Thats all.
 
mjlover1988 said:
The majority of the solo section of MSG was mimed anyway. Only the adlibs were live.

David Gest saysin his book that MJ was on drugs during those shows. It is definitely visible during the first night, particularly the performance of YRMW. He tries to spin around at the beginning and almost falls over.
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I'm pretty sure that was planned move, I've seen the clip you're referring to and he spins around and continues the dancing motion. And just to add, people went to HIStory shows because we fell in love with Michael as a person, not just his voice.
 
Im just gunna chime in here as a performer...ahem...

Are there actually any musicians/performers here who have tried to sing and dance at the same time??!! It is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to achieve a high standard of vocal performance whilst dancing. Many performers, and as one this includes me, believe that it is better to 'lip synch' here and there and give a fantastic live performance, than sing live and dance, providing a low calibre vocal performance.

Unless youve lived it, and have tried it yourself, I honestly dont believe you have the right to call ANYONE a fraud for lip synching.
 
D.Electric said:
Im just gunna chime in here as a performer...ahem...

Are there actually any musicians/performers here who have tried to sing and dance at the same time??!! It is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to achieve a high standard of vocal performance whilst dancing. Many performers, and as one this includes me, believe that it is better to 'lip synch' here and there and give a fantastic live performance, than sing live and dance, providing a low calibre vocal performance.

Unless youve lived it, and have tried it yourself, I honestly dont believe you have the right to call ANYONE a fraud for lip synching.
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Well we've seen him do it many times. So we know he can do it.

Even on the Royal Brunei Concert which was just 3 months before the HIStory Tour.

What do you say when songs like You Are Not Alone, Heal The World, Will You Be There or others are lip synched? You cant use the dancing and singing at the same time excuse for that.

What about 'Elizabeth I Love You'? That was a one of performance which did not require much dancing if any....but that was lip synched. I mean, this song and performance was for his good friend Elizabeth Taylor, and he lip synched the performance? :\ I mean, he just shouldnt have done it if he couldnt sing it.

I really dont understand it. It seems he did have vocals problems from Dangerous Tour to HIStory Tour. But laryngitis doesnt last 5 years, and why does he sound amazing on songs recorded between then?
 
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I think that is interesting. I had no idea about how much he mimed. I guess because I haven't senn himm perform many times. I had not even seen Motown 25 until after he died. (I know, I'm sorry). It appears at times that he still had his voice. i wonder why he would mime at all esp when the performance called for an emphasis on the vocals as opposed to dancing. That was his time to shine vocally.

And like, you said, we know he could do it. So what prevented him from doing it?

There is a thread that has a new video of Billie Jean in TII with commentary and Kenny says, "He was trying to get get his voice b..., You know build his voice up again..." (Something to that effect). I would be curious to know what Kenny meant by that. What problems did MJ have vocally that we are not aware that may have impacted his performance? Where they chronic or intermitent? Why would he need to get his voice back? Maybe I'll ask him in his interview thread.
 
ginvid said:
I think that is interesting. I had no idea about how much he mimed. I guess because I haven't senn himm perform many times. I had not even seen Motown 25 until after he died. (I know, I'm sorry). It appears at times that he still had his voice. i wonder why he would mime at all esp when the performance called for an emphasis on the vocals as opposed to dancing. That was his time to shine vocally.

And like, you said, we know he could do it. So what prevented him from doing it?

There is a thread that has a new video of Billie Jean in TII with commentary and Kenny says, "He was trying to get get his voice b..., You know build his voice up again..." (Something to that effect). I would be curious to know what Kenny meant by that. What problems did MJ have vocally that we are not aware that may have impacted his performance? Where they chronic or intermitent? Why would he need to get his voice back? Maybe I'll ask him in his interview thread.
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I find that quite scary. The building my voice back thing. As Human Nature was incredible......so its scary to think he was still building his voice back.
 
There's also a possibility that maybe he just didn't want to perform the songs live during History, I wouldn't expect him to just not do the songs though because he doesn't feel like doing them. Like I've said, he performed 100% live for the majority of his life, He can't get a break for miming certain songs on tour?


When some of your favorite artists today mime ALL THE TIME. He was human after all, he had vocal issues at times just like everyone else, but if you honestly feel that you couldn't sit through a performance from Michael while dancing and miming, without feeling cheated or lied to, then maybe, just maybe, you should re-evaluate your standings among the world of MJ, so to speak. Because personally speaking, I'm happy just seeing him, and I admire more than his voice.
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
There's also a possibility that maybe he just didn't want to perform the songs live during History, I wouldn't expect him to just not do the songs though because he doesn't feel like doing them. Like I've said, he performed 100% live for the majority of his life, He can't get a break for miming certain songs on tour?


When some of your favorite artists today mime ALL THE TIME. He was human after all, he had vocal issues at times just like everyone else, but if you honestly feel that you couldn't sit through a performance from Michael while dancing and miming, without feeling cheated or lied to, then maybe, just maybe, you should re-evaluate your standings among the world of MJ, so to speak. Because personally speaking, I'm happy just seeing him, and I admire more than his voice.
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I dont think anyone has said they dont still enjoy the performances. I love the HIStory Tour regardless.

He didnt perform 100% live for the majority of his life either, a lot of stuff on The Jacksons Variety show as well as Motown 25 Billie Jean were lip synched. Many live performances in the Jacksons era like soul train where also lip synched.

Again, nobody has said they couldnt sit through it or even didnt enjoy them! We are simply just discussing.
 
I think she was refering to posts someone made earlier where they said they felt cheated and lied to. And, those were that persons exact words.

But back to topic. Are you for real. I had no idea he lip synched at all when he was younger. I kind of feel stupid. Man he is excellent at lip synching. I was not born during his youger days. My earliest memory of him is Bad. But when I watch some of the old performances, I would swear they were live. Goes to show what I know.

Oh well, you live, you learn.
 
ginvid said:
I think she was refering to posts someone made earlier where they said they felt cheated and lied to. And, those were that persons exact words.
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Really? Oh I must have missed that. Sorry.

Please know that isnt the popular opinion though, I watch HIStory Tour shows all the time. A big part of the reason im an mj fan is the dancing.

And yeah. Of the top of my head. 'The Love You save' from the Ed Sullivan show is lip synched.

One day in your life from Soul Train is lip synched

A lot of the Jacksons Variety show stuff is lip synched.

Various Jacksons TV show performances are lip synched which I cant name of the top of my head.

Billie Jean Motown 25 is lip synched.

Rock With You Unicef Gala

I wasnt born until 1991 and didnt become a fan till 2004. This is all based on watching past performances obsessively haha
 
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I would have never guessed. I just thought he was really good at singing live. I guess I should go back and actually watch the History tour. I hear so much about, even though the majority of that has been over some gold pants. I'm heading over to youtube. What performance do you like from this tour?
 
ginvid said:
I would have never guessed. I just thought he was really good at singing live. I guess I should go back and actually watch the History tour. I hear so much about, even though the majority of that has been over some gold pants. I'm heading over to youtube. What performance do you like from this tour?
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Im a big fan of this one, due to the dancing. I feel in terms of dancing it is the best Billie Jean performance.

Oh and he was incredible singing live, especially in his very early years. Go watch 'Whos Lovin You' live and it will blow you away. It just wasnt ALL live like some people think. They lip synched ocassionally.
 
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Ok, I didn't go straight to youtube. I'm glad I stuck around to se if you would post again. I agree, his dancing is very good here. And his moves pop. They are very powerful. Thanks for answering. Ok, I am really off to youtube now. Bye.
 
ginvid said:
Ok, I didn't go straight to youtube. I'm glad I stuck around to se if you would post again. I agree, his dancing is very good here. And his moves pop. They are very powerful. Thanks for answering. Ok, I am really off to youtube now. Bye.
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He only mimed on TV when he was young, but everyone on tv mimed back then, TV was a lot more organised and conservative back then.
 
unless u have been singing and dancing since the age of five I really don't wanna here any complaints about MJ lip-singing! That has been around before and it will after MJ! Just watch any shows like soul train or American Bandstand and see how many times u seen people lip sing on those shows including the Jacksons, they did some songs live too but, not all! Same with MJ on tour as he got older he started lip singing some parts in tour and performances... oh well excuse him! It's not like he was doing that on tour in his twenties like Britney Spears now, so cut him some slack! U can't always have everything, so try to appreciate what u do have, that movie was great end of story!

It's better then nothing because if it didn't come out then yall be complaining about how you wish to see how it would have been like....too! lol


PEACE OUT!
 
bluetopez said:
unless u have been singing and dancing since the age of five I really don't wanna here any complaints about MJ lip-singing! That has been around before and it will after MJ! Just watch any shows like soul train or American Bandstand and see how many times u seen people lip sing on those shows including the Jacksons, they did some songs live too but, not all! Same with MJ on tour as he got older he started lip singing some parts in tour and performances... oh well excuse him! It's not like he was doing that on tour in his twenties like Britney Spears now, so cut him some slack! U can't always have everything, so try to appreciate what u do have, that movie was great end of story!

It's better then nothing because if it didn't come out then yall be complaining about how you wish to see how it would have been like....too! lol


PEACE OUT!
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:clap: :clap: :clap: my point zigzactly
 
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