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Michael jackson - jackson movie uses old material

mjlover1988 said:
Rob Hoffman, a HIStory album and tour sound engineer, confirmed that MJ did mime during HIStory Tour rehearsals.
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If you read my first post, you will see that I made the exception of History tour where Michael had major problems with his voice. So, yes, I already know History tour was the exception.
 
callmerose said:
If you read my first post, you will see that I made the exception of History tour where Michael had major problems with his voice. So, yes, I already know History tour was the exception.
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You also said you'd never seen MJ mime in rehearsal and you'd never heard of him miming in rehearsal.

I was just pointing out that there was eyewitness testimony that he had previously mimed in rehearsals.
 
mjlover1988 said:
You also said you'd never seen MJ mime in rehearsal and you'd never heard of him miming in rehearsal.

I was just pointing out that there was eyewitness testimony that he had previously mimed in rehearsals.
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Ok, I see.
 
mjlover1988 said:
Because the majority of the public are not MJ archivists with all his demos saved on their hard drives, and those people have been deceived.
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I don't think it is deceiving the public, obviously when kenny ortega went through the footage there would have been a lot that was inaudible because it was only being filmed for Michaels personal footage by two camera men. Take earth song, maybe the sound was really bad for it like extortion but they wanted to show what it would have been like in the concert so they stuck in another version of him singing it. It would not be as entertaining if the sound was breaking up and we couldn't make out the song. I think it just a bit of creative license.
 
mjlover1988 said:
Because the majority of the public are not MJ archivists with all his demos saved on their hard drives, and those people have been deceived.
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Decieved by what? I don't think Sony & AEG ever made an issue or marketed it as "Every Song, 100% Live", You never hearing any of his demos to be able to tell the difference with dubbed and live singing, isn't really their problem, now is it?
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Decieved by what? I don't think Sony & AEG ever made an issue or marketed it as "Every Song, 100% Live", You never hearing any of his demos to be able to tell the difference with dubbed and live singing, isn't really their problem, now is it?
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The film has been marketed as MJ rehearsing his concerts. If the audio is dubbed in from elsewhere then that's a deception.

And I don't think it's been dubbed in for the reason they stated. We know that Jam was rehearsed numerous times. If the audio from one rehearsal was patchy or incomplete, why didn't they use the audio from another rather than dubbing the album vocals over the top?

I don't believe there was any problem with the audio. If there was, why wasn't it audible during WBSS? Or Human Nature? They were filmed on the same days in the same outfits.
 
There were some songs that they edited, but so what. A great majority of it was sung live. Its not like this was the HIStory tour or something. lol. The songs I recall that had all/some vocals from previous recordings were

Jam
They Don't Care About Us
Smooth Criminal (some vocals live, some not)
Earth Song (vocals from Demo)
Billie Jean (some vocals from demo)
Man In The Mirror (some vocals live, some not)

But then again, anyone with half a brain could watch the film and see some of the syncing problems, which would tip people off that there was some editing. I don't give a damn though. Great movie, can't wait for the DVD
 
mjlover1988 said:
I don't believe there was any problem with the audio. If there was, why wasn't it audible during WBSS? Or Human Nature? They were filmed on the same days in the same outfits.
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So, why would they dub over the rehearsal audio if there wasn't a problem with the audio?

We don't even know what sort of equipment they were using for the audio. All we have is this story that started this thread that has not been carried anywhere else. So who even knows if the quote is even real or not.

I don't think this is a big deal, myself. Kenny and company made a movie out of footage that was never meant to be a movie. That in and of itself is an amazing thing. They had to take what they had and make it good enough quality to be played in theaters with state of the art sound systems. Really, what's the big deal? I got to see Michael's last rehearsals. I got to hear him sing again and see him dance and watch him create one more time. I in no way feel "decieved" if they dubbed in some audio from a demo to fill in the gaps. I am thankful that this movie exists at all.
 
mjlover1988 said:
The film has been marketed as MJ rehearsing his concerts. If the audio is dubbed in from elsewhere then that's a deception.

And I don't think it's been dubbed in for the reason they stated. We know that Jam was rehearsed numerous times. If the audio from one rehearsal was patchy or incomplete, why didn't they use the audio from another rather than dubbing the album vocals over the top?

I don't believe there was any problem with the audio. If there was, why wasn't it audible during WBSS? Or Human Nature? They were filmed on the same days in the same outfits.
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But you also have to remember, this was a rehearsal and it wasn't meant for us to see in the place, maybe on those other rehearsals, he just didn't feel like putting in amazing effort in a rehearsal, maybe he already knew the song and performance, but later run throughs, he'd be more focused on the other non-vocal aspects of the performance.


You have to realize, we werent meant to see this, they had to take hours upon hours of rehearsal footage, and turn it into a motion picture and release it to the world. If Sony & AEG would've included those lackluster rehearsals, which they may have been, they'd be ripped to shreds for no particular reason. People would be saying Michael was this and that and incapable of anything, much like what they're doing now, but on a larger scale.
 
When anybody lip-synchs anything it is lazy and unacceptable, particularly if the audience has paid for tickets.
 
From Michael Beardon interview: (I hope this could stop your arguments)
Q: Was he planning to do live vocals for every song?

MB: Yes, and I didn’t want him to.

Q: You didn’t? Because a lot of artists now when they…

MB: Absolutely and everybody does it. I’ll tell you what, I can do an experiment right now. Just sit in your chair and do this (bouncing up and down) and try to have a conversation. Now imagine dancing and doing that. And I would tell him and he would just resist it. “No.” I’d say “Well MJ, everybody knows you can sing. You’ve been doing it since you were 5. It’s not like a Milli Vanilli thing. It’s you. It’s you.” But he would not do it. I would say, “Okay. Well, at least let me lower the key some and then he would go, “Okay. But make it only a half step.” “Alright MJ.” Then, some pieces he would, just like on the J5, and then I’d say “What about a half step on this?” And he said, “No, you gotta do long. I’m too old to sing these songs.” So yeah, you’re right, I didn’t want him to, but he insisted. And to his credit and to his genius, that was Michael.
 
mjlover1988 said:
When anybody lip-synchs anything it is lazy and unacceptable, particularly if the audience has paid for tickets.
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I agree 100% and if they have problems with there voice then they should cancels the show until another date but i don't think this is the case here, for a start Michael had no say in what they used for the film and as i've said already i reckon they were not using top recording equipment or anything because it was only for his personal use and so the some of the songs may have been inaudible.
 
loveforever said:
From Michael Beardon interview: (I hope this could stop your arguments)
Q: Was he planning to do live vocals for every song?

MB: Yes, and I didn’t want him to.

Q: You didn’t? Because a lot of artists now when they…

MB: Absolutely and everybody does it. I’ll tell you what, I can do an experiment right now. Just sit in your chair and do this (bouncing up and down) and try to have a conversation. Now imagine dancing and doing that. And I would tell him and he would just resist it. “No.” I’d say “Well MJ, everybody knows you can sing. You’ve been doing it since you were 5. It’s not like a Milli Vanilli thing. It’s you. It’s you.” But he would not do it. I would say, “Okay. Well, at least let me lower the key some and then he would go, “Okay. But make it only a half step.” “Alright MJ.” Then, some pieces he would, just like on the J5, and then I’d say “What about a half step on this?” And he said, “No, you gotta do long. I’m too old to sing these songs.” So yeah, you’re right, I didn’t want him to, but he insisted. And to his credit and to his genius, that was Michael.
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Thanks for posting this. I remembered this interview but couldn't find it.
 
mjlover1988 said:
When anybody lip-synchs anything it is lazy and unacceptable, particularly if the audience has paid for tickets.
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Hmmm. I don't think there are many people who can dance and sing well at the same time. Michael could but that is a rare talent born from raw talent and a lifetime of practice and performing. I think if people expect pop singers to be dancers, then maybe there will always be lip synching.

Sometimes singers have vocal problems and they can't sing. It is a logistical nightmare to postpone a concert or a series of concerts, so I can understand why a performer would choose to lip synch then. you can totally trash your vocal chords singing when you shouldn't.

I would rather hear live singing even if it isn't perfect, for instance when a singer is dancing at the same time. And I would rather hear live singing even if it's in a different key or rough sounding because of vocal changes, having an off day, etc.. I just love live vocals. But I know a lot of people want the live performance to sound like the recording. I think Michael even said something about that during TII. I think it is a no win situation sometimes. You can't please everyone. I am really glad that he was planning to sing live during the concerts.
 
mjlover1988 said:
When anybody lip-synchs anything it is lazy and unacceptable, particularly if the audience has paid for tickets.
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I myself disagree. When I buy an album, I want to hear singing. When you watch a show, you want to see a performer. Nobody goes to a Britney concert to hear amazing vocals, but they want an amazing performance. She is not being lazy, she is just aware of her limitations. It's like Cirque de Soliel playing an artists music, you can still have an awesome show without live music if the performance piece as a whole can be elevated to an art (I don't think Britney does this). Ideally, you would like a performer that can do both. But, if you can't or have some problems with their voice, elevate your performance and maximize your limtations.

Lip synching with a bad performance is what is lazy and unacceptable.

Now with MJ, he was doing very physical numbers. And when lip synching occured, most times it was when the visuals were most engaging. He did not do it the whole show or plan to do it this whole show it would seem. So I am not calling him lazy, I believe he wanted to elevate it to an art piece. if Michael got on stage and sang all live vocals and hardly moved people would be like, "WTH, Man". So I can accept some compromise.
 
Q: Was he planning to do live vocals for every song?

MB: Yes, and I didn’t want him to.

Q: You didn’t? Because a lot of artists now when they…

MB: Absolutely and everybody does it.
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This comment shows Beardon to be a total fool.

I've seen everybody live from Elton John to Prince to James Brown to Gladys Knight to Stevie Wonder to Paul McCartney to George Michael.

None of them mimed a single syllable.

'Everybody does it.'

Absolute horse crap.
 
ginvid said:
I myself disagree. When I buy an album, I want to hear singing. When you watch a show, you want to see a performer. Nobody goes to a Britney concert to hear amazing vocals, but they want an amazing performance. She is not being lazy, she is just aware of her limitations. It's like Cirque de Soliel playing an artists music, you can still have an awesome show without live music if the performance piece as a whole can be elevated to an art (I don't think Britney does this). Ideally, you would like a performer that can do both. But, if you can't or have some problems with their voice, elevate your performance and maximize your limtations.

Lip synching with a bad performance is what is lazy and unacceptable.

Now with MJ, he was doing very physical numbers. And when lip synching occured, most times it was when the visuals were most engaging. He did not do it the whole show or plan to do it this whole show it would seem. So I am not calling him lazy, I believe he wanted to elevate it to an art piece. if Michael got on stage and sang all live vocals and hardly moved people would be like, "WTH, Man". So I can accept some compromise.
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Sorry, but I disagree.

There is a motion in Australia right now which would mean that by law performers would be required to advertise that they intended to mime on all tour promotion and on the front of their tickets.

I agree with the motion 100% and think it should be enforced worldwide.

To market something as live and then mime it is pretty much fraudulent.

It is categorically untrue that MJ only mimed uptempo tracks. He has mimed songs including Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone and Stranger In Moscow.

IMO, if you can't sing and dance at the same time - stop dancing. But don't charge me for a ticket to a live show and then have the bare faced cheek to stand in front of me and mime. That's taking money by deception.

If the ticket/promo said 'mimed' on it, I wouldn't buy tickets, no matter who it was.
 
mjlover1988 said:
This comment shows Beardon to be a total fool.

I've seen everybody live from Elton John to Prince to James Brown to Gladys Knight to Stevie Wonder to Paul McCartney to George Michael.

None of them mimed a single syllable.

'Everybody does it.'

Absolute horse crap.
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this singers maybe yes

but go to see Britney Spears, Jennifer Lopez, Madonna etc

everybody mimes or most of them, that correct statement
 
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mjlover1988 said:
Sorry, but I disagree.

There is a motion in Australia right now which would mean that by law performers would be required to advertise that they intended to mime on all tour promotion and on the front of their tickets.

I agree with the motion 100% and think it should be enforced worldwide.

To market something as live and then mime it is pretty much fraudulent.

It is categorically untrue that MJ only mimed uptempo tracks. He has mimed songs including Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone and Stranger In Moscow.

IMO, if you can't sing and dance at the same time - stop dancing. But don't charge me for a ticket to a live show and then have the bare faced cheek to stand in front of me and mime. That's taking money by deception.

If the ticket/promo said 'mimed' on it, I wouldn't buy tickets, no matter who it was.
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No one said he only mimed on slow songs. At least I didn't. I said he seemed to lip synch to those that were more visual (or something like that). And I am speaking only of TII.

As for the other comments, we can agree to disagree. I'd take the more visual show rather than just singing standing in one spot. But hey, you can't please everyone.

Also, I have never heard of a performer marketing all live singing. Just a live performance or show as you called it. The live singing part is an assumption (wrong or not) that the consumer makes. it is a technicality, but it is still there.
 
95% of the pop talents today lip-synch while performing, Michael was one of the few I've witnessed who could sing and dance at the same time, and do it well. Michael wanted to do the show live and I'm sure he would've succeeded, but if certain songs were mimed, then I would've enjoyed the show just as much. Because I love Michael and I love what he does, if you feel you would've been cheated and deserved more or whatever, then thats on you, but I just don't agree that miming means your being "lazy and unacceptable".


And again this was a film, a motion picture of a rehearsal, not a concert.
 
mjlover1988 said:
This comment shows Beardon to be a total fool.

I've seen everybody live from Elton John to Prince to James Brown to Gladys Knight to Stevie Wonder to Paul McCartney to George Michael.

None of them mimed a single syllable.

'Everybody does it.'

Absolute horse crap.
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For cryin' out loud, thre's no reason to call Michael Beardon names, this isn't grade school!

Do you think you know more about the music business than he does??!!!

I would take his quote to refer to preformers who do something similar to Michael. I think "everyone does it" is a figure of speech not to be taken literally for every imaginable singer. Of the singers you mentioned, James Brown is the only one who does anything close to what Michael did with singing and dancing. And James Brown was an exceptional talent. If you look at pop stars who sing and dance, then I bet it's true that "everyone does it".
 
mjlover1988 said:
It is categorically untrue that MJ only mimed uptempo tracks. He has mimed songs including Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone and Stranger In Moscow.

QUOTE]

Are youi referring to the History tour? It is unfair to make general statements about what Michael did or did not mime based on the History tour. For a good part of that tour he couldn't really even talk, let alone sing.
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mjlover1988 said:
Sorry, but I disagree.

There is a motion in Australia right now which would mean that by law performers would be required to advertise that they intended to mime on all tour promotion and on the front of their tickets.

I agree with the motion 100% and think it should be enforced worldwide.

To market something as live and then mime it is pretty much fraudulent.

It is categorically untrue that MJ only mimed uptempo tracks. He has mimed songs including Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone and Stranger In Moscow.

IMO, if you can't sing and dance at the same time - stop dancing. But don't charge me for a ticket to a live show and then have the bare faced cheek to stand in front of me and mime. That's taking money by deception.

If the ticket/promo said 'mimed' on it, I wouldn't buy tickets, no matter who it was.
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I guess if some one is planning from the start to lip synch and it is not a health related issue that comes up during a tour, then that makes sense. I would have a problem if the whole show was like that and it wasn't due to health issues. So, I can see putting on the ticket if it is more than just on a few songs.
 
callmerose said:
For cryin' out loud, thre's no reason to call Michael Beardon names, this isn't grade school!

Do you think you know more about the music business than he does??!!!

I would take his quote to refer to preformers who do something similar to Michael. I think "everyone does it" is a figure of speech not to be taken literally for every imaginable singer. Of the singers you mentioned, James Brown is the only one who does anything close to what Michael did with singing and dancing. And James Brown was an exceptional talent. If you look at pop stars who sing and dance, then I bet it's true that "everyone does it".
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You're totally wrong.

Prince was the most similar to MJ and even during his most theatrical shows he never mimed for a paying audience. He had too much self respect.
 
callmerose said:
mjlover1988 said:
It is categorically untrue that MJ only mimed uptempo tracks. He has mimed songs including Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone and Stranger In Moscow.

QUOTE]

Are youi referring to the History tour? It is unfair to make general statements about what Michael did or did not mime based on the History tour. For a good part of that tour he couldn't really even talk, let alone sing.
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Find me some footage of MJ on the HIStory Tour where he couldn't talk.

I've never seen any evidence of it whatsoever. Fans constantly claim that MJ was miming for medical reasons but in all the years I've been a fan nobody has ever been able to present a single smidgen of evidence.
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mjlover1988 said:
callmerose said:
Find me some footage of MJ on the HIStory Tour where he couldn't talk.

I've never seen any evidence of it whatsoever. Fans constantly claim that MJ was miming for medical reasons but in all the years I've been a fan nobody has ever been able to present a single smidgen of evidence.
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You know the majority of your 72 posts are of criticizing Michael and his singing abilities, "MJ Lover". And Michael was sick during the History tour, I don't know about not being able to speak, but its common fan knowledge that during the History tour he was indeed sick.
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AnnieRUOkay89 said:
mjlover1988 said:
You know the majority of your 72 posts are of criticizing Michael and his singing abilities, "MJ Lover". And Michael was sick during the History tour, I don't know about not being able to speak, but its common fan knowledge that during the History tour he was indeed sick.
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I agree with you 100%. According to this person Beardon is a fool and MJ's performances (at least his most recent) were fraudulent, lazy, unacceptable, deceptive, and he has no self respect. Are you even a fan at all? You are so unyielding in your opionions as to not even allow any deviation for extenuating circumstances. Everything is black or white. Though you are entitled to your opinion, and by all means think as you will, but, that is a very narrow way to live your life.
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