Mayday, may day, may day!!!!!

[xthunderx2]

I understand those who may not be sure and not wanting to get their hopes up. Although it's their choice if they want to even go there and they shouldn't blame anyone for that IMO.

But, what I don't get is those who are saying No, he is dead and that's that. Why get upset if u already feel that way indefinitely? How is this hurting u? Unless u are not sure urself? But, If u are sure then u shouldn't be making out those who genuinely want answers to whatever it may be that happen on June 25th out to be crazy or something. When in the end we all are wanting the same thing, the whole truth!

I think imo..why people are getting upset at the terminology that Michael is alive (including myself) is because we KNOW for a fact that he is NOT alive.But when we come here to MJJC ..this place here is our refuge from the outside world...from all the sharks that ever hurt Michael and the leeches that continue to hang onto him even in death. When people post stuff like the OP here for this thread it is VERY upsetting because now I/we are made to feel like anyone can come on here and say whatever they want ..I understand that the OP is entitled to her opinion about this subject...and that is great...that is what MJJC is about opinions....but when the OP says...NO he is ALIVE....that is NOT factual information that is HER OPINION....and those words go right to the very depth of everyone's hearts because we know he is not...and the past 2 years have been difficult for most the grieving process of our loss has been long....to except that Michael IS gone was hard...BUT we had to except it. ..and imo...this thread is NOT healthy for the OP or ANYONE ELSE that may read it and still maybe in the place in their own minds that they are still having trouble excepting Michael's passing. I just wanted to post this to maybe just give a little insight as to why this thread is unhealthy.

 

[Aniram]

Just watched the Dave Dave video yet again, because I hadn't seen it in over a year probably, and I don't think their voices are alike at all, or their mannerisms, or anything about how they behave.

I thought a lot of what you said made some sense except for the whole Dave Dave thing is too much for me.

As others in this thread have stated, I think there are more clues pointing to that he was murdered and isn't with us anymore.

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Sharon you are welcome to discuss your theories and opinions here

But Please dont give the impression to our members that you are speaking for GOD
and that it is God who is saying Michael is alive. You are not God's messenger here.
You speak for yourself please when you adress this board. Thanks

Hi qbee,

"Whatever you do in word or deed do as unto the Lord" is what I try to live back. I am saying why I went to the court house at the time I did and discovered lies- it's because the Holy Spirit directed me to. He also directed me to the hospital and to be where I was when that man asked me that question.

I am trying to very delicately to choose words in compassion when someone else is telling me that God told them something that contradicts what I know to be true. I could have said they misheard from God or that they were lying but instead I offered another possibility of their interpretation of what God could have meant if so He said anything to them. I don't know the person who made such claims nor their walk with God but am delighted that they are not ashamed to speak of Him openly which leads me to believe their heart is for God. I did not tell the person what God said but offered another interpretation concerning the words they used as to what could have been meant if so they heard from God.

Concerning what I have said about God If I recall correctly I believe it was that to this day God has not told me he was dead. I don't think I told people that God told me he was alive but I can say that God guided me to what I "theorize" as proof that Michael is alive.

I hope no one is offended by the things I say. I know it's hard to think something and have someone else say that you're wrong. Imagine being right and having people say you're wrong- those who dissagree with me. Can you imagine how I feel? I do empathise and you but do you attempt to understand me? Do you even half way attempt to take the mind set to understand where I am and how important this is? Don't get offended please. It is not my intention to offend you in any way. It is my intention how ever to uncover whatever has been going on and find truth and I'll do that. Michael is alive. Let it seep into your brain. Does that upset you? Do you think there is something wrong with me telling you that he is alive? Have you ththought that perhaps there's something wrong with not wanting that to be? I know your simply being here means you love him or care for him at the least so I know you want him to be alive. I'm telling you he is and it's your hearts that are probably too afraid be hurt in the what if, but he is.

Again, thanks qbee

God bless!!!

 

[Aniram]

You seem like a very nice person, very concerned about Michael's well-being like many of us, of course. I just don't understand some of what you believe...

I am with you on the driver changing his story being a little fishy. I agree with what other people say, too, about maybe him just being general about it you know. If we knew what else you knew maybe we could believe you more, but basically what I've seen is you going, "The ambulance driver lied and I know even more..."

Is there even a little bit more that you can offer us that you don't think would put your safety at risk if what you are saying is the truth? Because that little fib is a rather small thing to therefore assume some much bigger scenario is going on where Michael was kidnapped! And then you say the Dave Dave thing, which I really tried to watch in all honesty I don't see the resemblance!

Of course I see the influence Michael has rubbed off on him but I see the difference, definitely, I think it's kind of a morbid and creepy suggestion that I do find offensive but I'm not the person that tried to get upset about things like that. I can definitely see why other people would be offended that you'd suggest Dave Dave was/is Michael.

Please don't take my comments offensively, either, I don't mean it in that way, I'm only offering my opinion back to you, I have read this entire thread and your comments are coherent and seem mentally stable to me so that's why I'm a bit puzzled by what you're believing here! If you could offer any more insight as to why... And why don't I see it in Dave Dave when I know Michael's voice also and have seen and heard every interview and every recording?

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

I think imo..why people are getting upset at the terminology that Michael is alive (including myself) is because we KNOW for a fact that he is NOT alive.But when we come here to MJJC ..this place here is our refuge from the outside world...from all the sharks that ever hurt Michael and the leeches that continue to hang onto him even in death. When people post stuff like the OP here for this thread it is VERY upsetting because now I/we are made to feel like anyone can come on here and say whatever they want ..I understand that the OP is entitled to her opinion about this subject...and that is great...that is what MJJC is about opinions....but when the OP says...NO he is ALIVE....that is NOT factual information that is HER OPINION....and those words go right to the very depth of everyone's hearts because we know he is not...and the past 2 years have been difficult for most the grieving process of our loss has been long....to except that Michael IS gone was hard...BUT we had to except it. ..and imo...this thread is NOT healthy for the OP or ANYONE ELSE that may read it and still maybe in the place in their own minds that they are still having trouble excepting Michael's passing. I just wanted to post this to maybe just give a little insight as to why this thread is unhealthy.

xthunderx2,

Thank you for sharing your opinion and most especially thank you for sharing it so passionately. I appreciate what you're saying. I understand why you think way you do as well as others. Listen, I've been through a world wind of he's here oh no he's not. Only listening to people did I think that he was dead. When I listened to my heart, when I listened to God I was not steered to believe that. It's scary to face such hurts. I felt like I was dying inside. I love Michael. My heart cried for him. I prayed for him since I was a child, when I heard the words that he was dead I felt like I died. I fell to pieces. I imagine that happened to many of us who care for him. I walked around like a zombie barely able to pray and function. Things went from bad to worse if you can imagine that even being possible and my existence seemed bleak but I went to God and I prayed to Him on my knees in tears and I pleaded with Him to help me and He did. He took away my sorrow, filled me with joy, love and peace that was unimagineable. I felt like I was literally born again. I forgot what it was like to resent people and bad memories didn't tear me apart, I had continual peace that surpassed all understanding. I'd come to terms and accepted he was gone and it was God that sustained me.

One day I was led to fast and pray and I did, and my heart was moved to do something as if Michael were still here, which made no since to me especially since I'd accepted the thought of him being gone. I knew I was hearing clearly from God, I just didn't understand the purpose but I was obedient. God has not said Sharon Michael is alive but He has led me to proof after proof that he is and guided my heart concerning Michael still being here.

You say you know and others know he's dead. I understand your saying that, we all heard the news reports, I was even at the hospital, I saw them wheeling the a body inside, his security, you name it I was in the midst of it all and I accepted it like you, I hurt like you, I broke down emotionally and in tears. I woke up crying, took a shower crying, spent each day crying. I even had a dream as if he were speaking to me that seemed so real then woke up and realized I was still in the nightmare and cried... It wasn't until the memorial that my thoughts phased into two - is he are isn't he with the primary focus on maybe he is with glorious hope in my heart. I saw the words on the screen at the memorial saying "I'm alive."

I know your reasons for thinking he's not so I understand your thoughts but you've yet to know what's been revealed to me. Please give me time and extend me the opportunity for us all to explore the theories of what could have happened beyond murder. He wasn't murdered whether someone tried to murder him or not- he's alive.

I'm here because the truth needs to come out. I don't know what danger I'm placing myself in but I understand anyone who can bring about all of the things that transpired to make us all believe him to be dead, to have people lie on a witness stand and whatever happened to the transcripts from those preliminary hearings have a lot of power and are wanting to keep things secret. Anyone with that much power can be a danger and I could be their enemy. People wanting to keep secrets don't like people who want to expose them. I understand I can be in danger. Do you understand that? Do you understand the seriousness of someone lying in court? There are other lies and more cover ups.

I'm sorry this is upsetting for you and any and everyone else but let me assure if it were not so important I would not be risking my life in efforts of shouting we want to know what happened to Michael. If you don't want to say that you believe he is alive then that's fine with me but please, please, please join me in pursuit of honest facts.

God bless!!!

 

[Aniram]

I think most people are going to need more than

1) The ambulance driver lied in court

2) Dave Dave is Michael Jackson on Larry King on Youtube

3) There's more cover-ups but you can't tell.

Is there anything else you have?

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

You seem like a very nice person, very concerned about Michael's well-being like many of us, of course. I just don't understand some of what you believe...

I am with you on the driver changing his story being a little fishy. I agree with what other people say, too, about maybe him just being general about it you know. If we knew what else you knew maybe we could believe you more, but basically what I've seen is you going, "The ambulance driver lied and I know even more..."

Is there even a little bit more that you can offer us that you don't think would put your safety at risk if what you are saying is the truth? Because that little fib is a rather small thing to therefore assume some much bigger scenario is going on where Michael was kidnapped! And then you say the Dave Dave thing, which I really tried to watch in all honesty I don't see the resemblance!

Of course I see the influence Michael has rubbed off on him but I see the difference, definitely, I think it's kind of a morbid and creepy suggestion that I do find offensive but I'm not the person that tried to get upset about things like that. I can definitely see why other people would be offended that you'd suggest Dave Dave was/is Michael.

Please don't take my comments offensively, either, I don't mean it in that way, I'm only offering my opinion back to you, I have read this entire thread and your comments are coherent and seem mentally stable to me so that's why I'm a bit puzzled by what you're believing here! If you could offer any more insight as to why... And why don't I see it in Dave Dave when I know Michael's voice also and have seen and heard every interview and every recording?

Hi Aniramm,

Thanks for your words. If you don't see Michael concerning Dave Dave then that's fine. Forget about that, for those who do great!

As far as me sharing more I am wrestling with what, how and when for many reasons. My personal safety is not one of them. The safety of what I know is. I know I'm placing myself in danger and I don't care. There are many ruthless people in this world. I want them to know I'm here and that I know the truth and will shout it if not to his family then to the world. I plan to have every conceivable eye inspecting everything that transpired until we uncover what happened with Michael and where he's at. I want to know if he's okay. I know he's alive. There are things that prove he is alive that I am wanting to get to his family, things concerning the hearings and others. They need to get investigators. We need to petition the CIA and the FBI to locate him, to turn over evidence that a cover up has taken place by people who thank goodness failed in keeping their secrets secret by having others lie in a court room on a witness stand. I caught them. Michael's family know I cobvered the trial in Santa Maria as an investigative reporter and reported the real truth and not regurgitated lies that many media entities chose to participate in. They know my integrity and heart for Michael, my love for God is evident in all I do. If I reach them they should hear me. If they so much as accept the fact that I could be in danger they should listen.

As God guides me to share things, then I'll be obedient to His will. I have to follow God in this. I hope you understand. Perhaps in the above statement things have been made more clear.

Contact the courthouse - ask them if you can obtain a complete transcript of all testimony from the preliminary hearings. It wont be possible. Three words- payoff? Coverup? Corruption?

God bless!!!

 

[ivy]

Contact the courthouse - ask them if you can obtain a complete transcript of all testimony from the preliminary hearings. It wont be possible. Three words- payoff? Coverup? Corruption?

There was a website that posted full 6 days of preliminary hearings court transcripts but had to take them down as copyright doesn't allow it to be posted in such manner.

if you are talking about "in chambers" meetings they are done in chambers so that they wouldn't be public. Sealing of such meetings is "normal" and not payoff, cover up or corruption.

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

They may have claimed to have posted the transcripts but they were sealed before prelim ended. I am not speaking of in chamber meetings.Potions were also ommitted. I asked about obtaining certain information and was inform parts were not available.

Try to call them yourself.

Does anyone here have downloads of what they did released? I'd love to go through it- not really love but I'm interested in seeing how they butchered what they did release.

 

[ivy]

They can have temporary seals to make sure the future witnesses do not see the previous testimony. It's no different than sealing the jury questionnaire until after every one completes it.

Transcripts aren't sold in parts but in full.

Portions in the transcripts can be omitted if the judge told the reporter "to strike it from the record".

contact Taaj Malik she posted 200 pages of daily transcripts for every prelim day.

 

[mysterygirl7]

Sharon, thanks for your reply to me.. I think you are brave for sharing your views..

I don't know if I believe that Michael is alive, I don't know what to believe anymore.. I only believe in justice and I believe that we will see Michael again.. I just hope that so much...

 

[cinzia]

cinzia,

Autopsy, tatoo, etc. If the ambulance driver lied who else did? ...

Are you saying that the LA Coroner's office did not autopsy the body of Michael? Neither did the private pathologist hired by the family? Are you saying that the body autopsied not once but twice by different entities WAS NOT MICHAEL'S BODY? If so then whose was it? Your answer (see bolded) is no answer. Your fight to convince people that Michael is alive will have no credibility IMO until you, or someone, can answer this. If you can show that it was not Michael who was autopsied, that would be a stunning revelation. But, you know what, I don't think you or anyone can do it. I think that the family would certainly know if a 'fake' had been substituted, somehow...unless they are 'in' on it too.
I do think it is more likely that Michael was murdered that night than that he is hiding somewhere or kidnapped. If he was hiding, why in the world would he try to make himself known? It just defeats the whole purpose of hiding...it is not logical...and if he was kidnapped, he wouldn't be able to communicate, now, would he? So this whole thing just. makes. no. sense.
I'm not saying that you haven't heard some things which are suspicious or worthy of further looking into but I think that to say that they mean Michael is alive is a harmful thing to say. Why not just keep mum, gather all your information and then present it as a fait accompli to the world. This repeated dropping of hints and talk of threats is just counter productive to accomplishing what you seem to want.
Just put it all together and then put it out in the public eye. It will stand or fall on it's own merits.

 

[xthunderx2]

Are you saying that the LA Coroner's office did not autopsy the body of Michael? Neither did the private pathologist hired by the family? Are you saying that the body autopsied not once but twice by different entities WAS NOT MICHAEL'S BODY? If so then whose was it? Your answer (see bolded) is no answer. Your fight to convince people that Michael is alive will have no credibility IMO until you, or someone, can answer this. If you can show that it was not Michael who was autopsied, that would be a stunning revelation. But, you know what, I don't think you or anyone can do it. I think that the family would certainly know if a 'fake' had been substituted, somehow...unless they are 'in' on it too.
I do think it is more likely that Michael was murdered that night than that he is hiding somewhere or kidnapped. If he was hiding, why in the world would he try to make himself known? It just defeats the whole purpose of hiding...it is not logical...and if he was kidnapped, he wouldn't be able to communicate, now, would he? So this whole thing just. makes. no. sense.
I'm not saying that you haven't heard some things which are suspicious or worthy of further looking into but I think that to say that they mean Michael is alive is a harmful thing to say. Why not just keep mum, gather all your information and then present it as a fait accompli to the world. This repeated dropping of hints and talk of threats is just counter productive to accomplishing what you seem to want.
Just put it all together and then put it out in the public eye. It will stand or fall on it's own merits.

great post....good points...thank you...

 

[MJearthsong]

If he was hiding, why in the world would he try to make himself known? It just defeats the whole purpose of hiding...it is not logical...and if he was kidnapped, he wouldn't be able to communicate, now, would he?

This is a very logical argument and conclusion.

 

[cinzia]

jermjackson5 Jermaine Jackson
@LucyLovesMJ the truth can hurt. I ask you to consider how hurtful it is for family to read tweets saying Michael is alive when he's not
6 hours ago

I think this says it all. Haven't they had enough? It's time for this to stop.

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Ivy, I do don't speak with her because she has caused far too much division in the fan community. I wont go into the specifics but it's horribly bad and though I tried to to help in many situations she continued her lies. I view her as an enemy and have absolutely nothing to do with her. Whoever gave her access to those transcripts should send them to others.

As for transcripts being sealed and so forth I am familiar with the court system. I've sat in on other hearings including the preliminary for 05' as well as the trial. I know how they strike and seal information, what I am saying concerning the Murray hearings is that a cover up is taking place. Unfortunately, few people are listening to me. I informed the communityof the discrepency concerning the day that the judge set the trial to start. No one paid attention when he had to go back and change it and say he failed to realize it was beyond the time allotted by law. They are trying to let Murray walk. Does anyone care? Perhaps it's simpler to doubt me than suspect a system that is infamous of corruption and lies and that's the choice people are making. The simple one. I'm getting frustrated with this. I'm trying so very hard but rather than let your love for Michael guide your hearts to aide me in this people choose to say - you're only speculating. If and when I speculate it's backed up by some valid reasons or guided by the Holy Spirit and trust me the Holy Spirit is more credible than many would believe.

When I say you I mean Michael's fans, the people who love and care for him, who really and sincerely want justice and truth, whose hearts aren't darkened and bent on reaking havock to promote their own self at the destruction of others. Some people still are yet to realize the devil they have associated themselves with. If someone has established a pattern of betrayal, lies, deception and hate pretending to be an ally only to undermine the people whose side they claim to be on and elevate themselves do they not realize they too will some day be within the scope of her target. When it's done in secret it is no different, you've made your bed with the devil and only evil will come of it. Heed my words. Some people know who and what I'm talking about. To others it's irrelevant and please disregard.

Aniram, If I didn't know more then I wouldn't be saying there's more I know. When I say there are more cover ups it's because I caught more cover ups. Look closer and closer. Examine what has been happening in that court room. Ask yourself what happened to security tapes. If it was simply Murray and he gave an overdose there'd be no need to do away with security footage. There'd be no need for the lies that have taken place. Logic screams this. If you were an investigator you could look at the case and the things that have transpired and when you came up with gaping holes and illogical happenings you'd have to say something is seriously wrong here and that's what I'm saying something is seriously wrong here. How do I shake everyones hearts to wake up and see this? I place my life on the line and I'm still attacked. I tried to reach Michael's family when I witnessed these lies but tried to be discreet and never got through to them. I'm not even sure if they read my letter or knew it was from me if they did. I didn't put my name to it because I am aware that it takes some very powerful people to have caused so many things to have happened. I waited for them to return. I stayed knowing I could be in jeopardy, returning hearing after hearing searching for truth. I was all over the place in research and what was legally the norm. I even located how Murray could get off on a technicality if jury selections did not start in a certain time frame. Now I'm concerned they have set the trail beyond what the law requires. I need to look into this. There's too much going on and I'm only one person. When Gourjian came along with the defense I even got a fan to follow him to see what he was saying. I've informed other fans on how to be inconspicuos when gathering information but it seems people intercept information and rather than continuing in unity they allow someone to use them and cause division. I love Michael. I'm not doing what I am doing to steal from the fans, to talk people into spending their money, to encourgae people to do wrong, to cause division, or have people think I am in with anyone and look highly upon me. I am doing what I am doing because I want to know the absolute truth of what happened and that Michael is okay. If I caused division and cursed at people, and stole money or ideas or names from people or spoke of stories concerning Michael tehn I suppose everyone would wanna listen to what I have to say but I'm afraid I'm only sharing the boring facts and they are not fancied up or rushed out to keep everyone entertained. Think what you want, believe what you want, I've given you all the truth. Be your own judge.

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Sharon, thanks for your reply to me.. I think you are brave for sharing your views..

I don't know if I believe that Michael is alive, I don't know what to believe anymore.. I only believe in justice and I believe that we will see Michael again.. I just hope that so much...

mysterygirl7 you're welcome. It's likely the only way we will see Michael again is if we fight for it by spreading the truth and demanding they disprove the proof that maintains he's still alive. Do you think so much effort was put into what transpired only to set him free if by chance he was kidnapped? Do you think if for any reason he feared for the life of his and his children that he would even consider coming back without us making a desperate plea and acknowledging our love and support? Do you not think that wicked evil people have him in fear to even show his face be it from enemies who may want to kill him or fans who could hate him for being alive? Why would he? If the choice were his - why would he. If it's not then how would he? No matter what I've thought through this and I ascertain he needs our help. If he were kidnapped his family needs to know. Have you heard of, I think it's called munchowser's syndrome where people who have been kidnapped are allowed to be in public but don't cry for help because they are used to being in captivity. I'm not saying Michael was a prisoner but I am saying to me it seemed as if he were.

Thanks again you really helped my heart amidst so much frustration and sadness from peoples responses here. Thank you bvery much!

God bless!!!

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

I'm not saying that you haven't heard some things which are suspicious or worthy of further looking into but I think that to say that they mean Michael is alive is a harmful thing to say. Why not just keep mum, gather all your information and then present it as a fait accompli to the world. This repeated dropping of hints and talk of threats is just counter productive to accomplishing what you seem to want.
Just put it all together and then put it out in the public eye. It will stand or fall on it's own merits.

Is that what everyone wants?

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Originally Posted by cinzia
If he was hiding, why in the world would he try to make himself known? It just defeats the whole purpose of hiding...it is not logical...and if he was kidnapped, he wouldn't be able to communicate, now, would he?

This is a very logical argument and conclusion.

I explained this earlier. He's been crying out to us all along only we've been too blind see and unwilling to listen.

Why? To ease our hurt inspite of his personal heartache and turmoil.

If kidnapped it's possible he found a way to communicate with people, it's possible the people allowed him to do so thinking we wouldn't pay attention and even laughed at him for thinking we would. For many if that were the case they would be right because you don't want to see.

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Everyone please understand I've been through the emotional spirals of believing maybe he's alive and maybe he's not. Even after discovering some things that led me to think he was I spiralled in bouts of sadness that I can't even begin to explain. If I didn't know what I was talking about I wouldn't be posting these things here now. If I didn't believe it was so important to speak now then I wouldn't, I'd keep silent. I didn't even tell my friends or family or anyone what had happened in court. I shared with one of my friends that I thought I could be in danger but that's it. I kept this inside through the end of preliminary and the other hearings and until my heart moved me to reach out to you now...

I'm so perplexed at this very moment because now I've recieved an email saying Michael could be in danger for this truth to come out. I thought about asking the moderators to close this page but then I realized if he is in danger what would they have to fear if people think he's already dead and they were to do something to him? Nothing. It's only in our knowing he's alive that not only he can be found but if someone is keeping him from us then they have us to fear in our accepting this truth because we wont let them cover it. I wont keep silent.

God bless!!!

 

[ivy]

Dear Sharon,

I'm trying to make sense of all these but it's a hard task and I'll try to explain to you why.

First of all I want to say to you I hope that you understand that a lot of people agree with the actual point of your many complaints. Such as even though people believe Murray and Propofol being the reason other people's and events involvement, whether other people could do something, regardless of Michael's death how people affected Michael's life, the intentions of people is widely argued on this board. Similarly many people believe that a lot of people that had a role one way or another is not examined, the charges against Murray to be low. Also you would find people complaining about the legal system and the delays. So you are not alone in your basic complaints.

It's also believable that
- people lying on stand (it's not like every testimony is always truthful)
- people changing their stories or withholding information (people tend to protect themselves)
- there are incompetency going on with people in the legal environment.

I mean all of those are again understandable events that happened before and that would happen again in the future (Regardless of Michael or not).

The hard to understand point is that then you make huge jump to Michael alive and even to kidnapped. How do you equal a person lying about identifying Michael or not to him being kidnapped? I realize that you say there's "more" but without that "more" these jumps in logic wold be hard for everyone to follow.

Furthermore when you bring in he's alive / kidnapped into the mix, it's just natural that people ask "how" and "why" questions to you. and you have to be able to answer such questions.

As a person who has been in a court room you know the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt". For example in the case of paramedic driver lying, you have been presented with you don't know whether he was laying to you on the outside or in court, even if he's lying inside the court you don't know if he is lying not to be guy that didn't realize MJ or he's lying to cover up something. See my point? You might have made your mind but all of those are reasonable doubt for people you are telling your story.

And honestly sometimes your version becomes quite contracting - one minute MJ is being kidnapped against his will, then he's being allowed to attend Larry King show in a disguise because he's successfully brainwashed in a few weeks time. Yet although he's brainwashed (to the point that he can't escape or say that he's held against his will) he's lucid enough to send us messages?

and Sharon if you believe Michael was on Larry King to send messages so that the attuned fans can decipher them, you can relax as deciphering messages would be what he wants and I don't see how that would be putting him in danger. The only danger would have been if Michael had to fake his death to hide from something to protect himself and others and in that instance and in that danger he wouldn't be sending messages to anyone as it would have defeat the purpose of hiding and put him again in danger.

 

[xthunderx2]

Everyone please understand I've been through the emotional spirals of believing maybe he's alive and maybe he's not. Even after discovering some things that led me to think he was I spiralled in bouts of sadness that I can't even begin to explain. If I didn't know what I was talking about I wouldn't be posting these things here now. If I didn't believe it was so important to speak now then I wouldn't, I'd keep silent. I didn't even tell my friends or family or anyone what had happened in court. I shared with one of my friends that I thought I could be in danger but that's it. I kept this inside through the end of preliminary and the other hearings and until my heart moved me to reach out to you now...

I'm so perplexed at this very moment because now I've recieved an email saying Michael could be in danger for this truth to come out. I thought about asking the moderators to close this page but then I realized if he is in danger what would they have to fear if people think he's already dead and they were to do something to him? Nothing. It's only in our knowing he's alive that not only he can be found but if someone is keeping him from us then they have us to fear in our accepting this truth because we wont let them cover it. I wont keep silent.

God bless!!!

Sharon if you received any kind of e-mail that said that Michael would be in danger...then..someone is playing games with you..Michael cannot be in danger anymore ..he is gone..he passed away on June 25th 2009 at 2:20pm eastern time. I hope you can except this Sharon because that IS what happened.

MODS..WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL OPEN???????

 

[ginvid]

Sharon if you received any kind of e-mail that said that Michael would be in danger...then..someone is playing games with you..Michael cannot be in danger anymore ..he is gone..he passed away on June 25th 2009 at 2:20pm eastern time. I hope you can except this Sharon because that IS what happened.

MODS..WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL OPEN???????

I am feeling this way as well. I have to also say that I find this thread confusing and upsetting. I am also thinking that maybe it would be better to close this thread until Sharon can feel like sharing more information to make her POV clearer. Maybe until you decide whether to divulge the information you are struggling with. If you do not wish, this thread will still be here for people to read.

If you wish to divulge more information, there are multiple threads that lay out members views of why MJ is alive. I am, sure your information would be very welcome there.

 

[qbee]

I'm getting frustrated with this. I'm trying so very hard but rather than let your love for Michael guide your hearts to aide me in this people choose to say - you're only speculating. If and when I speculate it's backed up by some valid reasons or guided by the Holy Spirit and trust me the Holy Spirit is more credible than many would believe.

Sharon

We cant allow this becuase its an unfair to the others in this discussion for you to make such statements.
You are more or less claiming that you have the truth becuase The Holy Spirit led you and not the others
who are in this discussion who question you. Sorry but we Wont allow this on the board.

As a practicing Christian myself I will say
Yes the Holy Spirit is totally credible it is GOD but that doesnt prove your claims are credible
or that you are truly being led by the Holy Spirit in this case. You could be mistaken or misled
I will not derail this thread and turn it into a biblical debate with you. This is not the place

To be respectful to the Christian faith yes it is possible for believers to be led or inspired by
the God's Holy Spirit. But it is also possible for humans belivers to misinterpret or even believe
thier own thoughts and convictions come from the Holy Spirit. When they dont. Usually when
one is led it has to do with a matter of faith and or work for the good of Christ and the church
and must be backed with evidence for even the church to except that. Not usually used for
matters like this ..

What I want to address here is that while we respect the Christian faith on this board.
This is NOT a Christian board. I respect your faith as a Christian but also state your
interpretation of leadings or messages from the Holy Spirit can be wrong and fallable
becuase you as we all are a flawed Human and you have shown no proof that your
messages or interpretation comes from God's Holy Spirit.

Respectfully We ask that you Stop making these claims on this board for those reasons
You can certainly continue to discuss that facts opinions and theories you have but please
leave God out of the equasion. If he is indeed leading you then it will be eveident in the
outcome. If Holy Spirit gave you information then he will also give you the proof to back
it up not just your word.

You are more than welcome to discuss and show members here what evidence you
have for your claims that Michael is alive or other facts you want to discuss without
using mention of the Holy Spirit. So Please show what proof or evidence you have so
the members can continue this discussion with you. You say you have proof but havent
given any proof. Ivy has asked some good questions above about your claims if you wish
to reply to her it would be very helpful.

We are not denying your claims just not allowing them here and if you wont comply
We will have to close this thread. I hope we wont have to do that.

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Sharon

We cant allow this becuase its an unfair to the others in this discussion for you to make such statements.
You are more or less claiming that you have the truth becuase The Holy Spirit led you and not the others
who are in this discussion who question you. Sorry but we Wont allow this on the board.

I said the Holy Spirit guided me to court that day. I also said the Holy Spirit guided me to be at the hospital that day. That is the truth and there is nothing false in my saying that. No one should be offended by that. I haven't criticized anyones faith. My assignment by the Lord is my assignment and it changes as He wills. I did not say the Holy Spirit led me and not others rather I illustrated how peoples views alter from their vantage point. I am certain there are many things God has not revealed to me but I wont be offended should someone have revelation by the Lord, rather I would delight in it. Who should be offened by my saying why I was where I was when what was revealed to me was revealed? Should I first go further and illustrate waking and praying for God's guidance and asking Him are you sure?... Should I speak of my submitting and saying yes Lord even though it wasn't a place I wanted to be? In this world people think it right to speak of sex, drugs, violence, clothing, food, and everything under the sun but God. I often wonder why is it that people want so badly to elliminate Him from their daily lives, yet not altogether only don't speak of Him since someone may get offended... How has my speaking of God offened anyone? Perhaps it is my speaking in itself that has caused offense and others utilize the fact that I will freely use the name of God as well as make mention of any other person or factor in coming to any conclusion or fact. Perhaps some person or people make complaints thinking if I am not permitted to speak the Lord's name I will be tormented or quit speaking altogether for their own personal reasons besides any type of offense in my words. I don't know nor claim to know, but God is a factor in the things I am saying and have need to say so shall you all cut off my liberties for unwarranted presumptions of people finding offense in the words I utilize? Shall others complaints if any be considered more valuable than my freedom of speech? Are not these people, should they exist capable of stating their own case and pleading their own cause in a dignified manner rather than silencing one who may view things differently or express themself in a way contrary than they are familiar? Shall you judge me and condemn me and prohibit the name of God from being spoken here? If so, so be it it but I will not agree to banishing Him from my speech for the sake of any, not for comfort of other readers not even if my life were on the line. God is the most important being in the world to me and I love Him too much to be bullied into not speaking His name. If He is not allowed here then there is no point in my being here on MJJCommunity.com at all. He is with me so wherever I go He will be so if you must banish us.

As a practicing Christian myself I will say
Yes the Holy Spirit is totally credible it is GOD but that doesnt prove your claims are credible
or that you are truly being led by the Holy Spirit in this case. You could be mistaken or misled
I will not derail this thread and turn it into a biblical debate with you. This is not the place

To be respectful to the Christian faith yes it is possible for believers to be led or inspired by
the God's Holy Spirit. But it is also possible for humans belivers to misinterpret or even believe
thier own thoughts and convictions come from the Holy Spirit. When they dont. Usually when
one is led it has to do with a matter of faith and or work for the good of Christ and the church
and must be backed with evidence for even the church to except that. Not usually used for
matters like this ..

God called Michael and had a work for him to complete and it is not complete. His being here and completing the work in which God has assigned him will not only be good for the church it will also be the evidence for many to accept though many will not.

What I want to address here is that while we respect the Christian faith on this board.
This is NOT a Christian board. I respect your faith as a Christian but also state your
interpretation of leadings or messages from the Holy Spirit can be wrong and fallable
becuase you as we all are a flawed Human and you have shown no proof that your
messages or interpretation comes from God's Holy Spirit.

That's for God to prove - and only if He wills- not me. I am expressing how and why certain things were done it is up to the reader of what I write to believe, question or reject anything they choose such as they would with any other subject matter.

Respectfully We ask that you Stop making these claims on this board for those reasons
You can certainly continue to discuss that facts opinions and theories you have but please
leave God out of the equasion. If he is indeed leading you then it will be eveident in the
outcome. If Holy Spirit gave you information then he will also give you the proof to back
it up not just your word.

I have more proof than that which I needed and I'll only share it as and when He allows. If I don't make this clear then how will anyone know my reasons? I can't leave God out of any equation because He is the primary factor to every outcome. He is the equation. We may be random numbers and letters representing some equation but He is the truth of that total summed up within and even us. He is.

You are more than welcome to discuss and show members here what evidence you
have for your claims that Michael is alive or other facts you want to discuss without
using mention of the Holy Spirit. So Please show what proof or evidence you have so
the members can continue this discussion with you. You say you have proof but havent
given any proof. Ivy has asked some good questions above about your claims if you wish
to reply to her it would be very helpful.

I'll reply to Ivy and the other posts as the Holy Spirit guides me or perhaps I'll be banned by someone here or I'll perhaps ban myself should this thread be closed for God not being welcomed here.

I know it is frustrating to many to want answers from someone who claims to have them but it would be foolish of me to speak outside of God's timing and in my own. As a human I could resort to my emotions and let the statements written here sway me from seeking the Holy Spirit and His direction but I wont. If others want to abuse and badger me for seeking God's guidance then I will humbly accept that abuse and depart but I wont be pressured, badgered or abused into speaking without the guidance of the Lord. My walk with Him has taught me wise lessons of restraint, to say what He would have me to say and when He would have me to say it or even to keep silent. I wont change my walk with Christ for anyone in the whole entire world.

We are not denying your claims just not allowing them here and if you wont comply
We will have to close this thread. I hope we wont have to do that.

That is your choice to do so if you choose. I have stated my case above. If you close this thread please remove me from your site altogether. I extend my love to you and your members. I'll continue to stand for truth and the Lord as He guides me. Put a gun to my head and I'll sooner take a bullet than refuse to speak His name.

 

[ivy]

Sharon,

Let me try this again in a more simplified fashion. Your statement is "God not being welcomed here" is wrong. It's not about that.

Do you remember my previous post in which I said it's believable that people might lie on stand but what is hard to understand how do you make the leap from one person lying about a minute detail to Michael is alive / kidnapped. Yes I have heard you say there is "more" but you don't give us that "more" and only give us "Holy Spirit guides me and I know it".

Sharon I believe that you can realize that for everyone it will be impossible to make that leap of faith simply because you said so, no one can accept is as truth because you said Holy Spirit guided you. We need more than that. Plus the use of God in every explanation and in every counter argument makes it almost a non debate because how can you refute God? I really want to talk this with you, I want to understand you, I want to understand your reasoning of how you came to your conclusions but I don't feel like I'm talking with you. I'm also a huge believer of that religion and science goes together and that anything God related could be proven by science as well. In this instance science will be logical and rational examination of the evidence by our brains.

I hope this makes sense. I feel like I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself. You know how much I'm grateful for your existence. I just want to help you and I just want to understand you better.

 

[qbee]

Hi Sharon
We are trying our best to be respectful to your beliefs and We are certainly not telling you not to speak of God at all or that we want to banish God from this board. I feel it is unfair of you to paint me as some kind of tryant that wants that. Bottom line we are just asking you to discuss and answer questions of your findings and information without just using a feeling from the Holy Spirit. Members want to have a discussion with you in here not with God. People are confused by what you are claiming. So we want to make it clear that we are not disputing God or talking to God when we question you or your your claims. Your replies to others make it seem like when people question you they are questioning God. We dont debate with God here. So I hope you will make it clear that is not the case and you are not claiming that you speak for God in this thread. Some have questioned that and are confused. Thanks

Now please Ivy wants to continue discussiing your views with you. She has some questions
and information to share. I hope you are allowed to do that and if you are not at least politley
address her post directly and tell her so. Thanks

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Hi Sharon
We are trying our best to be respectful to your beliefs and We are certainly not telling you not to speak of God at all or that we want to banish God from this board. I feel it is unfair of you to paint me as some kind of tryant that wants that. Bottom line we are just asking you to discuss and answer questions of your findings and information without just using a feeling from the Holy Spirit. Members want to have a discussion with you in here not with God. People are confused by what you are claiming. So we want to make it clear that we are not disputing God or talking to God when we question you or your your claims. Your replies to others make it seem like when people question you they are questioning God. We dont debate with God here. So I hope you will make it clear that is not the case and you are not claiming that you speak for God in this thread. Some have questioned that and are confused. Thanks

Now please Ivy wants to continue discussiing your views with you. She has some questions
and information to share. I hope you are allowed to do that and if you are not at least politley
address her post directly and tell her so. Thanks

qbee,

If I have a direct message from God then I will say this is what God told me or showed me or I will pray on something and give the answer I receive as best I can. If I say the Holy Spirit guided me somewhere then I am not saying that is His message, I am only speaking of how I was where I was when I was there. When writing here, I search for words to say as allowed and guided by the Holy the Spirit in efforts of eliminating self as best I can quite often which is different if that can be understaood from a message from God. I ask the Lord how best to say things at times and He guides me in my choice of words. At times I write words and seek His aproval and often delete things I have written . When dealing with things of great importance such as this I am constantly seeking God on His will and direction. I hope that makes since, if not pardon me. I tend to be different than a lot of people and have grown to accept that, I'm hoping others would as well.

It was not my intention to paint you as a tyrant but merely to portay my view of the situation. I do not see you that way and if memory serves me correctly think quite highly of you and posts I have read in which you've written.

God bless!!!

 

[Sharon B. Sidney]

Sharon,

Let me try this again in a more simplified fashion. Your statement is "God not being welcomed here" is wrong. It's not about that.

Good.

Do you remember my previous post in which I said it's believable that people might lie on stand but what is hard to understand how do you make the leap from one person lying about a minute detail to Michael is alive / kidnapped. Yes I have heard you say there is "more" but you don't give us that "more" and only give us "Holy Spirit guides me and I know it".

I said the Holy Spirit guided me there. In doing so I was able to witness his false testimony and others things. I know it's frustration to only have part of the situation told at this time but as I said before I am despeartely seeking God's guidance on when to say what.

As for what you termed "the leap" from a person lying, Michael being alive and him being kidnapped I'll try to explain the logical deduction of that theory again.

* For the man to have lied someone is covering something up.

* He lied about knowing it was Michael in the ambulance, hence the cover up involves Michael being in the ambulance.

* Since that was the wholeness of the lie two questions arise

1. was he lying about knowing?

or

2 was Michael in the ambulance?

Since I spoke with him and absolutely nothing in his demeanor indicated he was lying it is logical to accept his question as a legitimate one

Since he had no reason to ask me a question in which he already knew the answer to again it is logical to acceot his question as a legitimate one

Since after my informing he he replied by reinforcing his being un aware with "I was wondering who that was" again makes it logical to accept as a legitimate question.

Furthermore while he was on the witness stand he seemed uncomfortable answering this question, the person asking it repeated it as if directing him to agree with them and if I recall correctly the judge indicated it was okay for him to proceed. He seemed as though he was lying.

Hence my conclusion of his lie.

* If (which he did) lie about knowing Michael was in the ambulance - the question arises- was Michael in the ambulance.

* If he could not tell it was Michael then it likely was not (Michael has has the most famous face in the world).

* If Michael was not in the ambulance then where was he?

----- If it were murder, logic suggests only Murray would have been neccessary whether it was carelessnes or a setup.

----- Others were involved, I have mentioned the driver's lie and we are aware of Murray

----- Logically if others were involved a coverup took place.

----- If Michael was not in the ambulance where was?

-----Hence the question could he have been kidnapped.

Some people may think that is an irrational thought but as I said before I heard Michael saying he was not "allowed" to talk on the phone- with my own ears.

I was told Thome weasled his way into Michael's life and that he was no good by someone outside of Michael's immediate employ but was in his proximity, that everything was in Thome's name and he was running Michael's life.

I have seen a video clip someone posted on the internet where it seems Thome is manhandling Michael with a tight grip around his arm.

I have heard a recording of Michael himself saying he was scared of Thome.

I am aware of how people were restricted from Michael's life - even his fans.

Before June 25th Michael seemed like a prisoner to me so it is not hard for me to believe that someone could have kidnapped him. I am not saying that is what happened but logically it would make since.

--- As for him being away I know Michael has received death threats all his life but perhaps it is only now that he could have been in fear of the safety of his children. Previously when he would tour he only had himself to look out for.

If someone threatened to bomb the arena how could he say to his kids no you can't come- there may be a bomb -but I have to perform?

I am not saying that happened but those types of threats have existed for him and many others. How would you deal with it?

I am not saying I know any of these things happened but in my complex mind I reasoned these things out and they seemed to be feasible possibilities.

If he were kidnapped you'd ask how could he release video footage etc. but if he were in disguise either

a. people who could have kidnapped him may have been else where when he did the recordings etc. and not been aware.

b. people who kidnapped him thought no one would notice and bargained with him for something they wanted to attain.

c. people who kidnapped him had someone watching over him who aided him in his efforts secretly.

Any of those things appear to be possibilities.

Sharon I believe that you can realize that for everyone it will be impossible to make that leap of faith simply because you said so, no one can accept is as truth because you said Holy Spirit guided you. We need more than that. Plus the use of God in every explanation and in every counter argument makes it almost a non debate because how can you refute God? I really want to talk this with you, I want to understand you, I want to understand your reasoning of how you came to your conclusions but I don't feel like I'm talking with you. I'm also a huge believer of that religion and science goes together and that anything God related could be proven by science as well. In this instance science will be logical and rational examination of the evidence by our brains.

Not everything concerning God can be proven by science. Science is flawed and God is a God of miracles that science cannot explain. For scientists to believe they have all the answers or can produce them is a major flaw of science. We're only human and at our best we cannot understand the limitless power of God.

There are things others say that I don't agree with and I either ask for a way to better understand what's in their mind, pray for discernment, conduct research or set it aside until I gain a greater understanding. Some things take time to understand. I, as I'm sure many others want to know everything as soon as we hear of something of intrist but sometimes God tells us to be patient and even keeps some things secret, some forever and some for a time but all for His purposes.

If you have a question please ask but don't get offended when I speak of God.

I hope this makes sense. I feel like I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself. You know how much I'm grateful for your existence. I just want to help you and I just want to understand you better.

We all hope to make since when writing to another I believe and I know sometimes it's hard. We all have dfifferent personalities and the way we percieve things and are affected by what we read varies greatly. You've done a good job if you've tried to do a good job and whether or not I received it completely or not is not what's most important.

I appreciate your efforts of understanding me and wish you the best of luck. I must warn you, I'm pretty complex.

God bless!!!

 

[myosotis]

Good.

I said the Holy Spirit guided me there. In doing so I was able to witness his false testimony and others things. I know it's frustration to only have part of the situation told at this time but as I said before I am despeartely seeking God's guidance on when to say what.

As for what you termed "the leap" from a person lying, Michael being alive and him being kidnapped I'll try to explain the logical deduction of that theory again.

* For the man to have lied someone is covering something up.

----- Others were involved, I have mentioned the driver's lie and we are aware of Murray

----- Logically if others were involved a coverup took place.

----- If Michael was not in the ambulance where was?

-----Hence the question could he have been kidnapped.

Some people may think that is an irrational thought but as I said before I heard Michael saying he was not "allowed" to talk on the phone- with my own ears.

I was told Thome weasled his way into Michael's life and that he was no good by someone outside of Michael's immediate employ but was in his proximity, that everything was in Thome's name and he was running Michael's life.

I have seen a video clip someone posted on the internet where it seems Thome is manhandling Michael with a tight grip around his arm.

I have heard a recording of Michael himself saying he was scared of Thome.

I am aware of how people were restricted from Michael's life - even his fans.

Before June 25th Michael seemed like a prisoner to me so it is not hard for me to believe that someone could have kidnapped him. I am not saying that is what happened but logically it would make since.

I am not saying I know any of these things happened but in my complex mind I reasoned these things out and they seemed to be feasible possibilities.

If he were kidnapped you'd ask how could he release video footage etc. but if he were in disguise either

a. people who could have kidnapped him may have been else where when he did the recordings etc. and not been aware.

b. people who kidnapped him thought no one would notice and bargained with him for something they wanted to attain.

c. people who kidnapped him had someone watching over him who aided him in his efforts secretly.

Any of those things appear to be possibilities.

Not everything concerning God can be proven by science. Science is flawed and God is a God of miracles that science cannot explain. For scientists to believe they have all the answers or can produce them is a major flaw of science. We're only human and at our best we cannot understand the limitless power of God.

There are things others say that I don't agree with and I either ask for a way to better understand what's in their mind, pray for discernment, conduct research or set it aside until I gain a greater understanding. Some things take time to understand. I, as I'm sure many others want to know everything as soon as we hear of something of intrist but sometimes God tells us to be patient and even keeps some things secret, some forever and some for a time but all for His purposes.

If you have a question please ask but don't get offended when I speak of God.

I appreciate your efforts of understanding me and wish you the best of luck. I must warn you, I'm pretty complex.

God bless!!!

As regards the kidnap theory, I am struggling with the concept of a God who sees someone held for two years against their will, and when it is decided to guide someone to be in a position to discover helpful information, will only permit it to be released in vague terms over an extended period of time, so that the information is neither concrete nor usable (in the sense of leading to the kidnappee's release). I am finding it hard to see either love or justice in that.