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May 6, 2009 -Wednesday Raymone Bain Sues MJ!

After reading that, and I am by no means a legal expert, I see all kinds of loopholes there. Mainly that she gets 10% of any deals she partakes in. Like, someone could just call her and she could pass the phone call on, and tack her name on as a liaison and thus entitled to money.

$44,000,000... that's a ton of money. I can't get around that one.
 
Isn't this pretty much like one of the previous cases when one company wanted a finder's fee when all the refinancing stuff was going on during the trial?

Well, obviously she was given a lot to do. I think people can't deny that. And obviously something went sour with their relationship. But, again, we haven't heard from his side so it is hard to know what went down. I think a decent (not even exceptional) lawyer could handle this just taken on face value, however. But, I've got a feeling there is probably more to this story from Michael's point of view. I wonder how these documents are going to hold up. Michael has not rolled over with these lawsuits so she had better have everything lined up before the lawyers get in there.
 
LOL Raymone Baine. She had to be the most stupid publicist I have ever seen employed. She was really REALLY bad at her job. Said it from day 1.
 
Most of the amount Rmone seeks is from the concerts. She can be compensated upto $4million, but she has no say on the $400million that MJ may make.

This is simply because Randy Phillips is on record as saying MJ turned down AEG 3 times.

By the time AEG approached again, Ramone had left, so she had no role in the deal.

The first deal with AEG that MJ signed was for 10 concerts, which were insured.

So, what layer in negotiating the deal can Ramone claim?
When MJ turned AEG down?
When MJ signed for 10 concerts and Ramone was no longer on board?
The additional negotitions to make 50 concerts?
The yet to be negotiated 3 year deal?

The good thing i can give her is she has shown some respect for MJ unlike normal insults from Others.
The downside is that she is trying to get more out of MJ than any of the others in the past for work thaat she's not even prt of and for things MJ has not even committed to.

So what happens if MJ says only O2 concerts and that's it? How much would she claim?
That makes it all too clear that MJ has not committed to anything beyond O2 and so it's preposterous for her to claim $44million.

10% cannot be claimed after leaving employment when you are not part of finalizing the deal, especially as MJ by then had turned down AEG, otherwise it would mean that MJ had no right to ever talk to AEG again after Ramone left. That's claiming 10% after termination.
 
Let me ask? How can someone sue for money that MJ hasn't even made?

So, let's say she wants and gets paid $44million today, and MJ only does O2, does he come back to ask her to pay back the $30million or so? Since lawsuit estimates are mostly based on what MJ will earn.
 
rsw22 said:
Most of the amount Rmone seeks is from the concerts. She can be compensated upto $4million, but she has no say on the $400million that MJ may make.

This is simply because Randy Phillips is on record as saying MJ turned down AEG 3 times.

By the time AEG approached again, Ramone had left, so she had no role in the deal.

The first deal with AEG that MJ signed was for 10 concerts, which were insured.

So, what layer in negotiating the deal can Ramone claim?
When MJ turned AEG down?
When MJ signed for 10 concerts and Ramone was no longer on board?
The additional negotitions to make 50 concerts?
The yet to be negotiated 3 year deal?

The good thing i can give her is she has shown some respect for MJ unlike normal insults from Others.
The downside is that she is trying to get more out of MJ than any of the others in the past for work thaat she's not even prt of and for things MJ has not even committed to.

So what happens if MJ says only O2 concerts and that's it? How much would she claim?
That makes it all too clear that MJ has not committed to anything beyond O2 and so it's preposterous for her to claim $44million.

10% cannot be claimed after leaving employment when you are not part of finalizing the deal, especially as MJ by then had turned down AEG, otherwise it would mean that MJ had no right to ever talk to AEG again after Ramone left. That's claiming 10% after termination.
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There are a couple of problems with what you're saying here. Raymone never left, nor was she legally terminated. According to Ms. Bain, Michael simply stopped communicating with her. Technically she can still claim that she's:




  • [*]President/COO, The Michael Jackson Company, LLC


  • [*] MJ Publishing Trust (Appointed by Michael J. Jackson)
    Board of Directors, Sony/ATV Music, Sony Music Corporation, (Appointed by Michael J. Jackson)

He gave her broad authority when it came to his business dealings and he allegedly never properly terminated her and he never walked away either.
 
MJJC MOD 1 said:
There are a couple of problems with what you're saying here. Raymone never left, nor was she legally terminated. According to Ms. Bain, Michael simply stopped communicating with her. Technically she can still claim that she's:



  • [*][FONT='Arial Narrow', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]President/COO, The Michael Jackson Company, LLC[/font]
    [FONT='Arial Narrow', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]

  • [*][FONT='Arial Narrow', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Trustee, MJ Publishing Trust (Appointed by Michael J. Jackson)[/font]
    [FONT='Arial Narrow', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]
[FONT='Arial Narrow', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Board of Directors, Sony/ATV Music, Sony Music Corporation, (Appointed by Michael J. Jackson)[/font]

He gave her broad authority when it came to his business dealings and he allegedly never properly terminated her and he never walked away either.
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Well, we really can't say he never terminated her. She has only given her side of the story. Maybe Michael did terminate her officially. Also, I do think that it is going to be a major strike that Michael turned down working with AEG multiple times. What is going to count is what "discussions" were had and how did that resemble with the current deal. Unless there was a line saying that he could not negotiate with people for a certain period of time, I don't know if she would really have a leg to stand on here.
 
Thoughts.....



  1. I am always skeptical of a one page contract. Especially one that gives a person all this alleged power. Contracts of this magnitude always come in packs. Not just one page. Almost seems like a shot gun wedding.
  2. Seems to me, she is suing for funds from 3 areas....the Sony/ATV loan, the Thriller release and the O2 concerts. All three of these things have other people who claimed that they were involved in the negotiations. So I am sure that the people like Michael's lawyers, Colony Capital and AEG will have something to say about who was really involved and to what extent.
  3. Why now? It seems to me that everybody from Ola to Landis to now Bain is jumping in to sue Michael when they know he is about to get a rainfall of cash from this tour. That alone is suspect to me.
  4. The video I saw of her on TMZ was totally unneccessary. She could have just filed her lawsuit and left it at that. Why did she feel she needed to do that?
  5. The bulk of the $44 mil she is asking for stems from what she thinks Michael will earn from the tour. If she was not employed when the final negotiations were agreed upon, she will get nothing from the tour proceeds. If someone is entitled to whatever monies the client may make after their employ is terminated, their is usually a clause in their contract which states a time period where they are entitled to these monies....maybe 3 years after or something like that. Her one page contract says nothing of the sort. The real question is gonna be when was she terminated if at all.
 
:bugeyed :bugeyed :bugeyed

I'm not even gonna say anything other than I am not surprised and once again we see where a certain individual gets his information.

Lord, please don't let Grace be next!:unsure:
 
TSCM said:
Per Raymone's claims, she communicated with AEG officials about possible concerts and film deals "on several occasions" throughout the year 2007. This was many months (perhaps more than a year) before any contract was ever negotiated and signed between Michael and AEG, and the contract was signed months after Michael had last spoken with Raymone. So, it then becomes a question of...can Raymone PROVE that her "several" discussions with AEG a year or two earlier directly contributed to Michael and AEG's ultimate decision to sign the contract? Of course, even if she could prove that, she would also have to prove that Michael Jackson has already received the $400 million that Randy Phillips told the media he could theoretically make if continuing a series of worldwide concerts and film projects. I wish her luck on that one.
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Not only that, but as far as we've been told, Michael REJECTED the first couple of offers from AEG. If Raymone "directly contributed" to either of those first two set of talks that ultimately ended in rejection and not this set that ended in a signing, her case essentially ends then and there. I suppose she could argue that but for her contribution, MJ never would have signed at all, but that's tenuous, at best, and we don't even have facts to verify that. I'm almost positive that it was AEG that reached out to Michael, not the other way around. Nor was Raymone qualified, in any way, to actually sit down and negotiate a contract of this magnitude. The only reason she and her lawyer initiated this suit was to force his hand on a settlement. Interesting timing, to set this into motion right before the concerts...Don't you think?
 
MoonWalkinYiddo said:
LOL Raymone Baine. She had to be the most stupid publicist I have ever seen employed. She was really REALLY bad at her job. Said it from day 1.
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People should stop acting as if she did nothing in terms of spokesperson during the trial; she was limited to a huge extent also. Whether or not mistakes were ever made, that would be between her and Michael.

Also, if she was doing even 1/4 of what is in that complaint, it seems as if she really hadn't been in the position as a publicist for a while. There would be no way that anyone here could act as a perfect publicist while at the same time dealing with all the other stuff on the business and personal front. And if she couldn't get Michael to separate the duties from her, then that really wouldn't be her fault. Perhaps, at the time, a publicist wasn't as much Michael's concern as it was for the fans.

I think it was obvious for a long time that her primary role wasn't simply a publicist. The fact that fans wanted to keep acting as if it was and holding her to that standard really shouldn't be laid at her feet. Michael obviously at one point took her out of the role of simply a publicist.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if she's right. That's right, I said it. I know it's easy to jump on the "Raymone is stupid, just another money wolf blah blah bandwagon", but the simple fact is that Michael is just terrible when it comes to these business dealings, it's happened countless times before, and as long as he doesn't change something, it'll happen again.

Now, are there people who just try to get money simply because he's Michael Jackson? Yes of course, that's what happens when you're a huge star, but this doesn't happen countless times just because of that. The common factor here is MJ and the system he currently has in place for dealing with these things. This might not be a side of him that you like, but that doesn't mean it's not a reality.

Of course the amount of money she's asking for is ludicrous, and she'll never get it. But this is how it usually goes, you start out asking some ludicrous amount, and end up settling for a lower amount.
 
The Raymone news is so disappointing. I hope they somehow find a way to continue trying to resolve this. :(

classic said:
Isn't this pretty much like one of the previous cases when one company wanted a finder's fee when all the refinancing stuff was going on during the trial?

Well, obviously she was given a lot to do. I think people can't deny that. And obviously something went sour with their relationship. But, again, we haven't heard from his side so it is hard to know what went down. I think a decent (not even exceptional) lawyer could handle this just taken on face value, however. But, I've got a feeling there is probably more to this story from Michael's point of view. I wonder how these documents are going to hold up. Michael has not rolled over with these lawsuits so she had better have everything lined up before the lawyers get in there.
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I generally agree with everything you post, classic and once again, I agree with your posts on the subject.

There's only a few things I want to point out tho...

rsw22 said:
Most of the amount Rmone seeks is from the concerts. She can be compensated upto $4million, but she has no say on the $400million that MJ may make.

This is simply because Randy Phillips is on record as saying MJ turned down AEG 3 times.

By the time AEG approached again, Ramone had left, so she had no role in the deal.

The first deal with AEG that MJ signed was for 10 concerts, which were insured.

So, what layer in negotiating the deal can Ramone claim?
When MJ turned AEG down?
When MJ signed for 10 concerts and Ramone was no longer on board?
The additional negotitions to make 50 concerts?
The yet to be negotiated 3 year deal?

The good thing i can give her is she has shown some respect for MJ unlike normal insults from Others.
The downside is that she is trying to get more out of MJ than any of the others in the past for work thaat she's not even prt of and for things MJ has not even committed to.

So what happens if MJ says only O2 concerts and that's it? How much would she claim?
That makes it all too clear that MJ has not committed to anything beyond O2 and so it's preposterous for her to claim $44million.

10% cannot be claimed after leaving employment when you are not part of finalizing the deal, especially as MJ by then had turned down AEG, otherwise it would mean that MJ had no right to ever talk to AEG again after Ramone left. That's claiming 10% after termination.
Click to expand...


I think this will all boil down to how the deal MJ actually signed with Tohme at the helm resembles any of the 3 AEG previously put forth and Michael turned down. The issue, imo, will come down to WHY Michael turned down the previous deals? Did he turn them down becuz they weren't suitable or did he turn any of them down becuz he just wasn't interested or "ready"? If it was simply a matter of him being ready and he just happened to be ready under Thome and signs one of the previous deals Raymone negotiated, then there could be some problems.

If the final deal hardly resembles any of the previous ones, well, it could be said that Thome was better at negotiating better or suitable terms. However, if this comes down solely to the terms being nearly identical yet a matter of timing on MJ's part...with him being "ready", well, I dunno. It could simply mean Thome was extremely lucky that MJ became "ready" on his watch...and he simply re-negotiated an already put-forth, yet turned down deal.

Who knows. My guess is when MJ's side responds we'll have more of an idea of why things fell apart the past few times and why they came together this time WITHOUT Raymone.


rsw22 said:
Let me ask? How can someone sue for money that MJ hasn't even made?

So, let's say she wants and gets paid $44million today, and MJ only does O2, does he come back to ask her to pay back the $30million or so? Since lawsuit estimates are mostly based on what MJ will earn.
Click to expand...

I think it's like TSCM said...she may be estimating her cut based on media reports. Who knows what it may actually be once she and MJ's people start hashing this out and official documents get turned over as part of discovery/production. It's unavoidable now. It's unfortunate that they weren't able to continue working this out amicably. Very unfortunate.

And please do NOT joke about the Grace thing. Lawd! Talk about having me break out in a cold sweat. :bugeyed Altho it will be interesting to know where she will fit in with this lawsuit considering she was not only working for MJ at the time but also assisting Raymone. Ohhhh dear. I just realized how tricky this could turn out to be. :fear: *backs out of this thread wewy wewy slowwwly*

Just wanna say I hope the conscience of all involved kick in here and they all do what's right and FAIR and JUST cuz karma is a mofo. I hope it all works out well for everyone, especially MJ.
 
the story has hit AP just as I thought... but any news with Michael is big news especially now.. he is "in" ...

if that long time PR guy didn't hurt Michael's career (forgot his name).. this won't
 
classic said:
Well, we really can't say he never terminated her. She has only given her side of the story. Maybe Michael did terminate her officially. Also, I do think that it is going to be a major strike that Michael turned down working with AEG multiple times. What is going to count is what "discussions" were had and how did that resemble with the current deal. Unless there was a line saying that he could not negotiate with people for a certain period of time, I don't know if she would really have a leg to stand on here.
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But the problem is she still holds those positions. I'm really looking forward to Michael's response to this because this case is a solid one. I hope he comes with barrels a' blazin'!
 
Just saw the TMZ video of Raymone and I was like........:scratch::blink:......that blond wig ain't cutting it!
 
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Sifa_Dias said:
I wouldn't be surprised if she's right. That's right, I said it. I know it's easy to jump on the "Raymone is stupid, just another money wolf blah blah bandwagon", but the simple fact is that Michael is just terrible when it comes to these business dealings, it's happened countless times before, and as long as he doesn't change something, it'll happen again.

Now, are there people who just try to get money simply because he's Michael Jackson? Yes of course, that's what happens when you're a huge star, but this doesn't happen countless times just because of that. The common factor here is MJ and the system he currently has in place for dealing with these things. This might not be a side of him that you like, but that doesn't mean it's not a reality.

Of course the amount of money she's asking for is ludicrous, and she'll never get it. But this is how it usually goes, you start out asking some ludicrous amount, and end up settling for a lower amount.
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:clapping:

I totally agree with you. If he owes money, he should pay it. If she's not legally terminated, he needs to fire her NOW.I :wub: Mike but I refuse to keep cutting him slack when it seems like all he does is fork over power to people who ends up suing him for breach of contract. I don't care what anyone says here but a pattern has clearly developed when it comes to Michael and his past managers/spokespersons/whomever and all he ever does is settle, settle, settle. If he took care of his business he wouldn't have to settle. I'm sure I'll be ripped apart for my opinion!
 
MJJC MOD 1 said:
But the problem is she still holds those positions. I'm really looking forward to Michael's response to this because this case is a solid one. I hope he comes with barrels a' blazin'!
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Forgot to say I agreed with your earlier post as well. And yes, I'm looking forward to his response as well. Should be interesting.
 
wendy2004 said:
Forgot to say I agreed with your earlier post as well. And yes, I'm looking forward to his response as well. Should be interesting.
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I honestly don't expect any response from him, other than going to court and taking care of it.
 
Sifa_Dias said:
I honestly don't expect any response from him, other than going to court and taking care of it.
Click to expand...

I meant his legal response...the paperwork response to the lawsuit, not necessarily a statement from him.
 
While I've never had any warm fuzzy feelings for Raymone, that's not to say that I think her lawsuit is completely without some merit. 44 million, h*ll no, but it MAY be that high to get his attention.

It's highly unlikely that Michael personally handles all the ins and outs of every penny paid out to his staff, "manager" or otherwise, that's what he pays his myriad of legal/financial people to do. But there does seem to be a break down in communication somewhere along the line, and not just in this case alone.

Michael is so big, his empire/history so multi-dimensional, that it is mind boggling to even imagine the complexity of it all. Do I think all lawsuits are frivolous? Maybe not in some cases, and definitely in many others. As for the astronomical amounts asked for in the lawsuits, it's ridiculous UNLESS it is used to actually get Michael's personal attention with the intention to settle for far less because nothing else seems/seemed to get the attention needed to settle up.

jmo
 
He'll probably hire a lawyer to handle this, and the lawyer will turn around and sue him after the issue is settled. We will have to spin off a theory from Murphy's Law called "Michael's Law": Anyone who can sue, will sue.
 
MJJC MOD 1 said:
But the problem is she still holds those positions. I'm really looking forward to Michael's response to this because this case is a solid one. I hope he comes with barrels a' blazin'!
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I get what you are saying. I was just wondering if something is being left out, though. Are you saying she wasn't terminated based on that first contract indicating a three year deal? Or did I miss something else (because I did read it kind of fast)?

She may be saying that he simply stopped talking to her but again until his side is out there, we really don't know. He may not have told her face to face that she was terminated but that doesn't mean anything. What is interesting is that contract doesn't make reference to termination procedures, etc.; does it? I'll have to go back and take a look.

I just think it is interesting that you could trust someone to the point of granting all this power over time and then all of a sudden contact just stops. Something seems wrong. Now, on who's side--that is the question. There are so many ways this could have manifested. For instance, was it something she really did or is it a case of people casting doubts on her for their own gains (like jockeying for positions that would require her to be out of the picture)? Again, many fans complained about her but it seems that some of the complaints have to be reassessed when people are complaining about her as a spokesperson and that obviously wasn't the number one priority for a good long while. What did happen was a lot of Michael's lawsuits, etc. did start to get straightened out during the time that we knew she was employed. Pot-stirrers are always around so unless you were there for the day to day, there could be some things going on that makes the relationship itself (separate from this lawsuit) less black and white. Sorry but sometimes that pot-stirring came from the fans themselves.
 
Look, I just have to say this.....

This kind of thing is happening much too often to Michael Jackson and my question is why?????......it just can't possibly be that Michael just hands things off for other people to deal with and buries his head in the sand can it?. I see a post saying she was'nt offically let go....why???? if someone is'nt acting on your behalf anymore given that Dr. Tohme is in the picture now, then why not terminate them.
And again, she's saying that she has tried to resolve this issue without any response from the MJ camp, would suggest to me that they don't think there is anything to respond to. I certainly hope this gets resolved out of court amicably 'cause everybody has been on such a high since these announced concerts and we as well as MJ don't need the negativity!

Hopefully, a response will be made to this lawsuit by the end of the week.

Would be nice to see a post from Ms. T right about now....lol
 
mo money mo problems.

if these suits didn't happen everytime a new success attached itself to MJ, the aggressors would not look so stupid.

"hmmmm...o2 sellout. let me see how i can partake in MYYY part of this gravy train!"

gimme a break.

these lawsuits will always be suspect, when aimed at Michael, because nobody(apart from his fans, and the general public that keeps mobbing him, whenever he goes outside) ever believes he will be successful, when the page turns, because they are media lemmings. nobody would've believed o2. and you can bet your bottom dollar when he sells out in the usa, other lawsuits will follow, because nobody believes he will sell out in the usa.

oh, they relax cus they think Michael's not going anywhere, when it comes to new successes. then when the 'surprise' success keeps hitting, they are taken by surprise and immediately knee jerk to get their piece of the gravy train.
 
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And to the person who says she is still hired as the COO.....I DON'T THINK SO.

If you read the one page "shot gun wedding" contract, her term was for 3 years. The contract was signed in May of 06. So her employ expired this month.

Now, it will be interesting to see just how "involved" she was with the whole AEG thingy since that is were the bulk of her claim is coming from. I doubt it and I think that Randy Phillips himself will be instrumental in providing the facts on that. Obviously, she is trying to tap into his future earnings. But in order to be entitled to that, she will have to show the judge that she was the one who started the negotiations between Michael and AEG Live AND that she was there and a part of the finalization of those negotiations.

Now we haven't seen this woman with Michael for a while now. I know the last time I saw her was when Michael went to Japan for that fan party. Even though her contract has just expired, she will have to show that she was actually working for and on Michael's behalf and that she was in talks with AEG. If she has been spending the last year or so trying to get paid from Michael like she says, then how could she have been a part of the negotiations?
 
Well if it's true that Michael owes Raymone money, then I agree, he should pay up. It shouldn't have to get to the point were employees or ex-employees have to file lawsuits to get what they earned and what they're entitled to. However, Bain is asking for $44 million dollars for negotiating a contract...the amount she is asking for is beyond ridiculous and the timing of all of this makes me question whether she is trying to get more then what she's worth. She's been out of MJ's life for 2 years now, all of a sudden when MJ is about to make a lot of money all these people from Michael's past come out of the woodworks and sue for whatever they can.
 
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