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Lloyd's refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back/ Update: Case Settled

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Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

I see LLoyds is using the tabloids to gain their information as well. Now let's see what happens next month. I doubt they will find that he had a drug addiction, if that is what they are looking for. I expect they want to say that he was taking some drugs and did not tell us, and died as a result of it, so we do not have to pay up.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

MJ ESTATE to LLOYD'S OF LONDON
This Is It. Now Pay Up!

0817-michael-jackson-lloyds-ex.jpg


The Michael Jackson estate is tired of waiting for Lloyd's of London to pay out on the $17.5 million "This Is it" insurance policy -- so they're going after Lloyd's in court ... demanding they pay up, stat.

Lloyd's of London originally issued the policy to cover potential losses for MJ's 2009 "This Is It" concerts -- but earlier this year, the company asked an L.A. court to declare the policy null and void ... claiming MJ lied about his medical history and drug addiction.

Lloyd's insists the policy "was restricted to losses resulting from accident only" -- pointing out Michael's official cause of death was "homicide."

But the estate is now on the offensive -- filing a cross-complaint, claiming MJ never intended to die, whether by homicide or not, so his death still qualifies as an accident.

But the estate isn't just settling for the original $17.5 million -- they also want punitive damages. FYI, suing for punitive damages often scares the crap out of insurance companies.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/08/17/micha...s-lloyds-of-london-this-is-it-fraud-concerts/
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

good to see although tbh i dont see the estate winning this one
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

I'm hoping that the fans won't have an issue with homicide versus accidental.

Estate's reference to "accidental" is solely based on Insurance law and precedent cases which say this

An effect which is the natural and probable consequence of an act or course of action is not an accident, nor is it produced by accidental means. It is either the result of actual design, or it falls under the maxim that every man must be held to intend the natural and probable consequence of his deeds. On the other hand, an effect which is not the natural or probable consequence of the means which produced it, an effect which does not ordinarily follow and cannot be reasonably anticipated from the use of those means, an effect which the actor did not intend to produce and which he cannot be charged with the design of producing, it is produced by accidental means. It is produced by means which were neither designed nor calculated to cause it. SUCH AN EFFECT IS NOT THE RESULT OF DESIGN, CANNOT BE REASONABLY ANTICIPATED, IS UNEXPECTED, and is produced by an unusual combination of fortuitous circumstances; in other words, it is produced by ACCIDENTAL means.

2 main precedent cases are Western Commercial Travelers' Ass'n. v. Smith, 85 F. 401, 405 (C.C.A. 8 th Cir. 1898) and Railway Mail Asso. vs. Dent, 1914 (C.C.A. 8th) 213 F. 981
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

KingMikeJ said:
MJ ESTATE to LLOYD'S OF LONDON
This Is It. Now Pay Up!

0817-michael-jackson-lloyds-ex.jpg


The Michael Jackson estate is tired of waiting for Lloyd's of London to pay out on the $17.5 million "This Is it" insurance policy -- so they're going after Lloyd's in court ... demanding they pay up, stat.

Lloyd's of London originally issued the policy to cover potential losses for MJ's 2009 "This Is It" concerts -- but earlier this year, the company asked an L.A. court to declare the policy null and void ... claiming MJ lied about his medical history and drug addiction.

Lloyd's insists the policy "was restricted to losses resulting from accident only" -- pointing out Michael's official cause of death was "homicide."

But the estate is now on the offensive -- filing a cross-complaint, claiming MJ never intended to die, whether by homicide or not, so his death still qualifies as an accident.

But the estate isn't just settling for the original $17.5 million -- they also want punitive damages. FYI, suing for punitive damages often scares the crap out of insurance companies.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/08/17/micha...s-lloyds-of-london-this-is-it-fraud-concerts/
Click to expand...

Yeah, Yeah. Everyone is suing the Estate, asking for money, or trashing Michael. Good to see the Estate fighting back in court, and yes punitive damages for the business and payments the Estate has to put on hold because the money has not come through from the insurance. Don't Mess With Michael's Estate!!!

I wish they could add damages as a result of Lloyds labeling Michael an addict without documentation and using the tabloids for evidence, but of course they cannot.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

There are quite a few issues with this policy. One is, that there are conflicting accounts of whether or not Michael was actually examined by a doctor designated by the insurance company. One account (Randy Phillips) is that he had "the body of an astronaut." The other account, is that there was NO physical, and that the doctor was turned away at the gates. We STILL don't know which it is.

Right. I don't see the estate winning this one.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

^^I heard another one that Michael saw a doctor here and when he got to London he was supposed to see another one. It seems the initial insurance policy was based on the 1st doctor's visit.

I feel the estate can win this one if they have their precedents lined up and know what they are doing.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

First physical with Dr. Slavit has happened - none of the parties are denying that. That's what they started the insurance policy on. the most recent Estate counter complaint documents say that doctor said Michael was in "good health" and "excellent condition".

Based on that Lloyds stared an "accident only" insurance policy. They said that they'll make a "full" insurance once Michael goes through another examination in London and Lloyds attend a rehearsal to observe him. Those didn't happen.

so the whole argument now is what the "accident only" insurance covers and are they suppose to pay or not.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

ivy said:
First physical with Dr. Slavit has happened - none of the parties are denying that. That's what they started the insurance policy on. the most recent Estate counter complaint documents say that doctor said Michael was in "good health" and "excellent condition".

Based on that Lloyds stared an "accident only" insurance policy. They said that they'll make a "full" insurance once Michael goes through another examination in London and Lloyds attend a rehearsal to observe him. Those didn't happen.

so the whole argument now is what the "accident only" insurance covers and are they suppose to pay or not.
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I don't know about you guys...but I feel this might be a very good move by the estate.

I feel this is a HUGE opportunity to shut down the rumours that he was unhealthy, depressed and what not. DR Slavit might be called to testify to support his diagnostic that MJ was in "Excellent Condition".

I think if not settled out of court, this could be a very great move to clear MJ from the drug addict talks, and indict Conrad Murray in public opinion.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

^^I agree with you too, although I am no legal expert. I feel positive about this move by the estate and I am hoping they have their facts to back it up and a good insurance lawyer too.
 
Memefan;3460780 said:
DR Slavit might be called to testify to support his diagnostic that MJ was in "Excellent Condition".
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This is Dr. Slavit? >>>
MJ+2010+Slavit.jpg




Slavit, an ear-nose-and-throat specialist, based in New York City, administered Michael Jackson’s physical in February of this year, which the pop star reportedly passed.
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http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/2010/08/michael-jacksons-dr-slavit-and-aeg.html

http://www.accesshollywood.com/mich...tion-who-is-doctor-david-slavit_article_22144



:scratch:



Soooooooo... He is an otolaryngologist. (?) For me it's a little strange that a medical of this medical specialty to give a clean bill of health/physical report to a patient .... Or not? This is completely common/normal? :unsure:




:fear:


 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

If it's a general physical exam and not a specialized examination he can do it I believe.

For example in my annual physical they took blood / urine for tests, checked my blood pressure / pulse, did an ekg, took a chest xray, listened to my chest, checked my reflexes, looked to my ear, throat, eyes, felt my stomach (internal organs), tapped my back etc. and all of these was done by a nurse practioner.

so if it was very basic examination, he could have done it.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
If it's a general physical exam and not a specialized examination he can do it I believe.

For example in my annual physical they took blood / urine for tests, checked my blood pressure / pulse, did an ekg, took a chest xray, listened to my chest, checked my reflexes, looked to my ear, throat, eyes, felt my stomach (internal organs), tapped my back etc. and all of these was done by a nurse practioner.

so if it was very basic examination, he could have done it.
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Yes........


BUT.... In Michael's case, I find it very strange why he probably did various tests that would be evaluated, not simple tests... but deeper tests. Then, all these types of tests were evaluated by a single doctor, an otolaryngologist. :eek: In my opinion, I believe the normal thing would be an evaluation by a cardiologist or a general physician.... or not? :fear:

OK, the whole thing is a mess. :doh: *big sigh* Let's see what will be said at the trial of Murray. :fear:




 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

ivy said:
I'm hoping that the fans won't have an issue with homicide versus accidental.

Estate's reference to "accidental" is solely based on Insurance law and precedent cases which say this

An effect which is the natural and probable consequence of an act or course of action is not an accident, nor is it produced by accidental means. It is either the result of actual design, or it falls under the maxim that every man must be held to intend the natural and probable consequence of his deeds. On the other hand, an effect which is not the natural or probable consequence of the means which produced it, an effect which does not ordinarily follow and cannot be reasonably anticipated from the use of those means, an effect which the actor did not intend to produce and which he cannot be charged with the design of producing, it is produced by accidental means. It is produced by means which were neither designed nor calculated to cause it. SUCH AN EFFECT IS NOT THE RESULT OF DESIGN, CANNOT BE REASONABLY ANTICIPATED, IS UNEXPECTED, and is produced by an unusual combination of fortuitous circumstances; in other words, it is produced by ACCIDENTAL means.

2 main precedent cases are Western Commercial Travelers' Ass'n. v. Smith, 85 F. 401, 405 (C.C.A. 8 th Cir. 1898) and Railway Mail Asso. vs. Dent, 1914 (C.C.A. 8th) 213 F. 981
Click to expand...
Hmm. So if Michael sought treatment, however unusual, from a licensed physician for a medical problem (insomnia), then the intended effect was survival, and any other outcome is legally an accident. He could not be expected to know better, as a layman, how to administer the treatment or anticipate that a trained physician would take actions that endangered his health.

Well, maybe it's enough to force a settlement.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

yep.

important thing to remember is that in this lawsuit parties are Lloyds and Michael (now his Estate) and AEG. So we aren't discussing Murray's actions.

so that definition to me seems like unless Michael knew his actions was dangerous and he could have died and yet continued to do it , it's an accident.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I presume L of L will want to wait for the end of the trial and the verdict would have a large bearing on any future lawsuit trial?.or would it not matter?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
yep.

important thing to remember is that in this lawsuit parties are Lloyds and Michael (now his Estate) and AEG. So we aren't discussing Murray's actions.

so that definition to me seems like unless Michael knew his actions was dangerous and he could have died and yet continued to do it , it's an accident.
Click to expand...


Well, the nurse said MJ told her the drug is safe, he just needed someone monitoring him.

And every specialist they've interviewed said the drug is really safe, but that incompetent doctor...
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I hope the Estate wins and is paid in full.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

btw something that's not reported in the media is this

Lloyd's issued subpoena's to 7 doctors for Michael's medical records. Those are

Dr. Edward Kantor - otolaryngology
Dr. Arnold Klein
Cherilyn Lee
Nutrimed Health (Lee's company/practice)
Dr. Allan Metzger
Mickey Fine Pharmacy
Westcliff Labaratories

They are asking for 7.5 years of Michael's medical records (starting Jan 1 , 2004), Estate is also fighting that request.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I am confused what does his any medical issues that go back ti 04 have to do with what happened June 25 2009? I know insurance companies do not like to pay but this seems a little silly. If Michael's health was good before he died what does his health five years before have to do with anything?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I was going to ask the same question, and if medical history was important surely the insurance company should have had to request hair samples before setting up the insurance policy.
 
Justthefacts said:
I am confused what does his any medical issues that go back ti 04 have to do with what happened June 25 2009? I know insurance companies do not like to pay but this seems a little silly. If Michael's health was good before he died what does his health five years before have to do with anything?
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i think the issue is that LOL are saying aeg/mj didnt tell them what medication mj was using.therefore they lied and that makes the policy void.i presume the policy wanted to know mjs history back to 04 and they are claiming they were lied to so want the records to prove it
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I hope the estate win, most of us know that insurance companies go to the ends of the earth to try and get out of paying up!
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

elusive moonwalker said:
i think the issue is that LOL are saying aeg/mj didnt tell them what medication mj was using.therefore they lied and that makes the policy void.i presume the policy wanted to know mjs history back to 04 and they are claiming they were lied to so want the records to prove it
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exactly. i believe they asked for mj's medical history since 2005 and was told that he only saw a dermatologist. and they are arguing that he saw more doctors.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

double post
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
exactly. i believe they asked for mj's medical history since 2005 and was told that he only saw a dermatologist. and they are arguing that he saw more doctors.
Click to expand...
yeah and for that reason i dont see how the estate can win the case.

one thing i dont get though. please correct me if im wrong but wasnt this insuracne policy taken out by AEG. then after 09 the estate paid aeg to reimburse things and AEG gave the estate the policy and said go claim on it to get back the money you have just paid out to us? if thats correct why did the estate agree to it and not just tell AEG to claim on the policy themselves
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

This past medical history puts a wrinkle in this. How is the estate doing with the fight against this information Ivy? However, I do not think Michale was taking drugs from these doctors indiscriminately, but I still agree with the estate for fighting it.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

i don't no why but im sat here thinking would he of even passed a second medical in London? the blood test would bring up all the sh*t murry was fueling him with
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Depends when it took place.as it goes through your sysyem in x amount of time
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I agree with what elusive said. Also, I wouldn't think that the policy stipulated that he could not have medications. So, if something that could be used as a sleep aid was in his system, I doubt that would have been against the policy. Surely the man was allowed to have medicine.

Perhaps this is the angle that the Estate would be taking as well with the insurance company. Phrasing would be everything. So did they want to know every doctor that he visited within that last 4 or 5 year period or simply doctors that he was regularly seeing?
 
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