Lloyd's refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back/ Update: Case Settled

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I understand it differently.

Point 12 states death, accident and illness - those were the things that would be covered by the final insurance
Point 13 says "cover is restricted to losses from accident only until .. medical report in London ... rehearsal in London".

they argue that as the London rehearsal and medical exam didn't happen , the policy at the time of Michael's death covered accident only and that they wouldn't pay because his death wasn't an accident it was a homicide.

I actually think homicide would be covered, like if there was no doubt that he was maliciously murdered... But in this situation its homicide by receiving propofol, so they probably look at it like even though its not MJs fault he isn't here, he was taking medications to help him sleep that they knew nothing about( and are very risky). N I thought they were mainly fighting it because they werent completely forthcoming about the prescriptions/doctors
 
The timing of this is just hard with the 2 year anniversary coming up. I don't get why they are asking not to pay now after all this time. I am not familiar with how long it takes for an insurance company to start paying but it's hard to see this. None of this should be happening because Michael should still be here.

Yea stuff like this can go on forever
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

timing is bad i agree to that.. but ivy what is now the reason? how michiel died. accident or not, of the meds he took and they didnt know?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

On one hand I'm kind of sad about this, yet I want the Estate to counteract this. If certain medical history wasn't given to the insurance company, then they have a valid claim for this, but if they're suing for not having to pay for time in which Michael didn't even fill out then would medical history need to play a large role in the suit? Besides, if Michael took a physical, shouldn't have all that information been provided by AEG?


And isn't Murray on trial for negligence, so should the fact that Michael nor anyone else never mentioned use of propofol really matter? Since we do have reason to believe that one physicians own incompetence to anesthesia played just a big of a part as one's decision to use the drug for whatever personal reason? And shouldn't the insurance company know of Michael's physicians, other than a dermatologist, since Murray was under contract with AEG, should that information also had not been provided by AEG?

To All: Sorry about all the different replies, Im on a cell phone lol

From my understanding medical history plays a LARGE role in the suit. They didnt know about all of MJs medical history (like they wanted to know) and then im positive they didnt know about MJ being given propofol and other sedatives to sleep.

This insurance was for MJ to pay AEG if he had to cancel or if there was an accident of some sort where he couldnt fufill his obligations to do the shows, so its not AEGs responsibility to provide that info to them. Its whoever working for MJ to provide that info not AEG.

N yes the mention of non-propofol is a BIG ISSUE. Im sure if they mentioned it MJ would have either not been insured or the insurance would have been very expensive. From what I read its a big probem that he didnt even mention all the docs/perscriptions he had taken, so of course that is very important. For them its not about Muarry being negligent, its abot the insured(MJ) engaging in highly risky behavior (being administered sedatives to sleep) that ultimatley led to his death. Heck sometimes when insurers find out that one of their insured is terminally ill, they try to drop them. So inkow this is a big problem for them.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Tome tohme was representing MJ at the time. Hope the Estate squeezes him for answers. And if he deliberately made false representations, does he become liable to the Estate?
 
True.... But if he has POA it is still just as good as MJ signing himself. I just don't understand why Tohme had POA. I could understand something like that when he was out the country, but I don't think he should have given anyone that
power

yeah its the same as mj signing but its the element of fraud that intrests me if such a thing did take place.i guess we might know one way or the other when the estate responds. Of course theres two sides to every story but knowing what we do now itd gonna be hard to fight this imo.the question is why it took L of L so long to file
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Also why did AEG sign the policy over to the estate which is another issue L of L have.why did the estate pay AEG and get the policy inreturn.why didnt AEG wait for a pay out? Cause they knew it would be invalid?
 
The timing of this is just hard with the 2 year anniversary coming up. I don't get why they are asking not to pay now after all this time. I am not familiar with how long it takes for an insurance company to start paying but it's hard to see this. None of this should be happening because Michael should still be here.

so true this story has really got to me the last few days
 
Re: Insurer Seeks to Void Policy for Jackson Shows (Says Michael Never Had the Required Medical Exam

Yea, I know.
I personally believe Michael Jackson death was not an accident.
I totally agree with you
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Pretty sure a lot of people now are realizing that June 25 by far smells like a non-accident. Way way way too many inconsistencies and just a buttload of 0.o things to not realize that. And again: no doctor on this whole wide planet could possible be this moronic and careless if not for the sake of some sort of an incentive. Michael was fresh meat for the hungry, especially in his last months on earth, everybody and their mother suing him and each other and sucking him dry. Accident my flyin' foot. ...
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

All of this information sure make it look more and more like an accident, if it was a plot to kill them it would not be this mess, it would be more plan out and all angles cover, in this case no angle was cover,
And I thought manslaughter charge was a accident death?
Also at the time MJ was getting the insurance he was not using Proprofol or most of the other drug they found June 25.
Plus we hear Murray lied to the insurance broker when he called to ask about MJ failing health, Murray had MJ hookup on many drugs yes he lied to the broker,
I really don't know what to make of this case, but I do know AEG have a lot to answer for in there dealing with Michael Jackson.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Let me give you a little summary of the policy (and that was one hard and boring read)

- Insurance policy is called " non appearance and cancellation insurance"
- The coverage was to start in April 2009 and go on until January 2010.
- Michael was insured for $17.5 million.
- It states that 30 shows in O2 was expected to bring $43M income , $1.4M per show and insurer would be off risk after the completion of 13 shows.
- Income from the shows reduced the sum insured.
- It again states that losses are restricted to accident only until the insurers see the medical report from London and attend rehearsals.
- It says that meet and greets aren't allowed and insurer has to see and agree to any promotional work in advance.
- The policy doesn't cover SARS, pneumonia, avian flu, child diseases (such as mumps , measles etc) as well as terrorism, biological and chemical weapons.
- Premium was $437,500 with additional US TRIA (Terrorism Risk Insurance Act) of $1,750,000. Later it's stated that TRIA wasn't bought.
- Full policy was to cover death, accident, illness, unavoidable travel delay, venue damage, adverse weather and national mourning.

- Insurers are notified of concert date moving, they agree to this changes.
- Effective of June 10, insurer agrees to include 7 band members, 4 vocalists and 12 dancers as insured people as well.
- It's stated that AEG rented a house in Chislehurst, Kent from July 2009 to June 2010. The travel from the house to venue will be between 20 minutes to 1 hour.
- It's stated that Michael would travel with 3 cars (4 if his children attend) to and from the venue. They list that 2-3 security guards, his make-up artist and Dr. Conrad Murray would be travelling with him.
- It states that Michael's UK arrival date was July 4th 2009 and the first UK rehearsal was July 8th, 2009.
- Insurers are also sent the plans for the stage and the policy effective June 18 extended to include "cover losses from resulting from problems with the stage,staging or special effects". "Swinging arm" is explicitly mentioned. There are handwritten notes of "how high does the arm go?" , "what % of the show will the arm be used in?", " what effect would there be on the show if the arm didn't work?"
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Thanks ivy

reading all this is hard.what should have been
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Thank you for the information ivy.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

A shrewd lawyer worth his salt knows how to circumvent around interpretations of the stipulations of the policy.
Don't want to be giving Lloyds Insurance the heads up.
Joe & katherine suit against the AEG oughtta stay put and lie low at the moment. A lot of information can be gleaned from the suit.
Again won't want to be giving Llyods the heads up.
For $17.5M, it can afford the wait.
All of this can impact the criminal trial against Murray comes September. Should not want to jeopardise it if you ask me.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Let me give you a little summary of the policy (and that was one hard and boring read)

- Insurance policy is called " non appearance and cancellation insurance"
- The coverage was to start in April 2009 and go on until January 2010.
- Michael was insured for $17.5 million.
- It states that 30 shows in O2 was expected to bring $43M income , $1.4M per show and insurer would be off risk after the completion of 13 shows.
- Income from the shows reduced the sum insured.
- It again states that losses are restricted to accident only until the insurers see the medical report from London and attend rehearsals.
- It says that meet and greets aren't allowed and insurer has to see and agree to any promotional work in advance. - The policy doesn't cover SARS, pneumonia, avian flu, child diseases (such as mumps , measles etc) as well as terrorism, biological and chemical weapons.
- Premium was $437,500 with additional US TRIA (Terrorism Risk Insurance Act) of $1,750,000. Later it's stated that TRIA wasn't bought.
- Full policy was to cover death, accident, illness, unavoidable travel delay, venue damage, adverse weather and national mourning.

- Insurers are notified of concert date moving, they agree to this changes.
- Effective of June 10, insurer agrees to include 7 band members, 4 vocalists and 12 dancers as insured people as well.
- It's stated that AEG rented a house in Chislehurst, Kent from July 2009 to June 2010. The travel from the house to venue will be between 20 minutes to 1 hour.
- It's stated that Michael would travel with 3 cars (4 if his children attend) to and from the venue. They list that 2-3 security guards, his make-up artist and Dr. Conrad Murray would be travelling with him.
- It states that Michael's UK arrival date was July 4th 2009 and the first UK rehearsal was July 8th, 2009.
- Insurers are also sent the plans for the stage and the policy effective June 18 extended to include "cover losses from resulting from problems with the stage,staging or special effects". "Swinging arm" is explicitly mentioned. There are handwritten notes of "how high does the arm go?" , "what % of the show will the arm be used in?", " what effect would there be on the show if the arm didn't work?"

I know this is slightly off topic, but is that normal for a concert tour...no meeting with fans at all?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Let me give you a little summary of the policy (and that was one hard and boring read)

- Insurance policy is called " non appearance and cancellation insurance"
- The coverage was to start in April 2009 and go on until January 2010.
- Michael was insured for $17.5 million.
- It states that 30 shows in O2 was expected to bring $43M income , $1.4M per show and insurer would be off risk after the completion of 13 shows.
- Income from the shows reduced the sum insured.
- It again states that losses are restricted to accident only until the insurers see the medical report from London and attend rehearsals.
- It says that meet and greets aren't allowed and insurer has to see and agree to any promotional work in advance.
- The policy doesn't cover SARS, pneumonia, avian flu, child diseases (such as mumps , measles etc) as well as terrorism, biological and chemical weapons.
- Premium was $437,500 with additional US TRIA (Terrorism Risk Insurance Act) of $1,750,000. Later it's stated that TRIA wasn't bought.
- Full policy was to cover death, accident, illness, unavoidable travel delay, venue damage, adverse weather and national mourning.

- Insurers are notified of concert date moving, they agree to this changes.
- Effective of June 10, insurer agrees to include 7 band members, 4 vocalists and 12 dancers as insured people as well.
- It's stated that AEG rented a house in Chislehurst, Kent from July 2009 to June 2010. The travel from the house to venue will be between 20 minutes to 1 hour.
- It's stated that Michael would travel with 3 cars (4 if his children attend) to and from the venue. They list that 2-3 security guards, his make-up artist and Dr. Conrad Murray would be travelling with him.
- It states that Michael's UK arrival date was July 4th 2009 and the first UK rehearsal was July 8th, 2009.
- Insurers are also sent the plans for the stage and the policy effective June 18 extended to include "cover losses from resulting from problems with the stage,staging or special effects". "Swinging arm" is explicitly mentioned. There are handwritten notes of "how high does the arm go?" , "what % of the show will the arm be used in?", " what effect would there be on the show if the arm didn't work?"

Thanks Ivy. God it's hard to read that, I just remember how I was when I was imagining these concerts! ( completly high by joy! )

And now, it's just painful, very painful.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Let me give you a little summary of the policy (and that was one hard and boring read)

- Insurance policy is called " non appearance and cancellation insurance"
- The coverage was to start in April 2009 and go on until January 2010.
- Michael was insured for $17.5 million.
- It states that 30 shows in O2 was expected to bring $43M income , $1.4M per show and insurer would be off risk after the completion of 13 shows.
- Income from the shows reduced the sum insured.
- It again states that losses are restricted to accident only until the insurers see the medical report from London and attend rehearsals.
- It says that meet and greets aren't allowed and insurer has to see and agree to any promotional work in advance.
- The policy doesn't cover SARS, pneumonia, avian flu, child diseases (such as mumps , measles etc) as well as terrorism, biological and chemical weapons.
- Premium was $437,500 with additional US TRIA (Terrorism Risk Insurance Act) of $1,750,000. Later it's stated that TRIA wasn't bought.
- Full policy was to cover death, accident, illness, unavoidable travel delay, venue damage, adverse weather and national mourning.

- Insurers are notified of concert date moving, they agree to this changes.
- Effective of June 10, insurer agrees to include 7 band members, 4 vocalists and 12 dancers as insured people as well.
- It's stated that AEG rented a house in Chislehurst, Kent from July 2009 to June 2010. The travel from the house to venue will be between 20 minutes to 1 hour.
- It's stated that Michael would travel with 3 cars (4 if his children attend) to and from the venue. They list that 2-3 security guards, his make-up artist and Dr. Conrad Murray would be travelling with him.
- It states that Michael's UK arrival date was July 4th 2009 and the first UK rehearsal was July 8th, 2009.
- Insurers are also sent the plans for the stage and the policy effective June 18 extended to include "cover losses from resulting from problems with the stage,staging or special effects". "Swinging arm" is explicitly mentioned. There are handwritten notes of "how high does the arm go?" , "what % of the show will the arm be used in?", " what effect would there be on the show if the arm didn't work?"

Thanks for the summary, ivy, very much appreciated!
I just have a few questions that are not clear for me:
- when you say the income was going to be $43M what do you mean exactly by "income"? (gross income? or if net then net of what?)
- is there any reason or calculation given why the insurance was for $17,5M and not, say, $20M or why not for all of the $43M?
- I assume the policy is dated April 24 and the amendment was done on June 10?
(And sorry for making you work some more, if there is a link for this and I missed it I'd be happy to go through this myself)
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

- when you say the income was going to be $43M what do you mean exactly by "income"? (gross income? or if net then net of what?)

from document : income means the total ticketing income including secondary ticketing income plus the merchandising income, less the AEG LIVE promoter profit.

- is there any reason or calculation given why the insurance was for $17,5M and not, say, $20M or why not for all of the $43M?

no it simply states "limit of indemnity : USD 17,500,000 "

- I assume the policy is dated April 24 and the amendment was done on June 10?

The original policy lists the effective date as April 24, 2009.
There are 3 additions to the policy
- Concert date changes effective May 15
- Addition of musicians/ vocalists/ dancers effective of June 10
- Addition to cover losses due to stage elements effective of June 18

(And sorry for making you work some more, if there is a link for this and I missed it I'd be happy to go through this myself)

I got the document from the court website and it has the policy as an attachment. I don't think the full version is online.
 
I know this is slightly off topic, but is that normal for a concert tour...no meeting with fans at all?

I guess they wanted it for security reasons.offically that may have happened but in reality it wouldnt have.heck enough fans would have prob been in the house
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

btw this is the los angeles times article that in the lawsuit Lloyd's mentions - the one they accuse AEG to giving them the insurance policy


Jackson was scheduled for a second physical

The British carrier underwriting the majority of the risk for the pop star's planned comeback concerts insisted on follow-up tests by a London physician.
August 07, 2009|Harriet Ryan
Michael Jackson was scheduled to undergo a second physical by an insurance company doctor at the time of his death, according to the terms of the policy purchased by the promoter of his planned comeback concerts in London.

A New York doctor gave Jackson a battery of medical tests in February so promoter AEG Live could get insurance for a portion of the performances, but the British carrier underwriting the majority of the risk, Lloyd's, insisted on a follow-up physical by a London physician closer to the July 13 kickoff show.


Under the terms in place when Jackson died, the $17.5-million policy covered only "losses" -- cancellations or non-appearances by the pop icon "resulting from accident." That coverage could have been expanded to include shows scuttled by a death from natural causes or by illness, but only after insurance officials had reviewed the results of the second medical examination and watched a run-through of the show at the O2 Arena.

Jackson, 50, died June 25, the week before he was to travel to London.

On Thursday, AEG Live provided a copy of the policy to Jackson's mother, Katherine, in what the company said was an effort to quell misinformation about its terms. The entertainer's father, Joe Jackson, suggested in an interview Sunday with Fox News' Geraldo Rivera that there was something suspicious about the AEG policy.

According to a copy obtained by The Times, the policy specifically prohibited a payout if cancellations were related to illegal drug use.

"This insurance does not cover any loss directly or indirectly arising out of, contributed to, by or resulting from . . . the illegal possession or illicit taking of drugs and their effects," the policy read.

Jackson, who had struggled with prescription drug addiction, was taking medication at the time of his death. Authorities are investigating the role drugs may have played in his death and are mulling charges against his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray. The L.A. County coroner's office has not yet released the results of a toxicology screen. AEG has said that the company is awaiting an official determination of death before trying to collect on the policy.

L.A.-based AEG has said getting insurance coverage for the troubled singer's comeback effort was difficult. The Lloyd's policy covered the income expected to be generated during the first 13 of the 50 planned concerts.

The promoter's chief executive, Randy Phillips, has said the company spent up to $30 million mounting the elaborate show but expects to recoup the investment by collecting on the insurance policy and embarking on various deals with the Jackson estate, including a documentary film.

Much of the policy appears standard, but aspects testify to Jackson's global fame. In an effort to guard his privacy, Jackson was referred to throughout the policy as Mark Jones. The policy also indicates the high stakes in keeping Jackson healthy. With a common cold carrying a potential cost in the millions, the policy barred Jackson from holding "meet-and-greets" with fans.

The policy, finalized in April, also covered Jackson's then-manager, Dr. Tohme Tohme.

"I think they put me on the insurance because we were traveling together and we were going to be together," the businessman said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/07/local/me-jackson-insurance7
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Thanks so much for all the clarification ivy.

Parts of that made me feel sick.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Count on Joe to weigh in with his expert opinion.:puke:
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Let me give you a little summary of the policy (and that was one hard and boring read)

- Insurance policy is called " non appearance and cancellation insurance"
- The coverage was to start in April 2009 and go on until January 2010.
- Michael was insured for $17.5 million.
- It states that 30 shows in O2 was expected to bring $43M income , $1.4M per show and insurer would be off risk after the completion of 13 shows.
- Income from the shows reduced the sum insured.
- It again states that losses are restricted to accident only until the insurers see the medical report from London and attend rehearsals.
- It says that meet and greets aren't allowed and insurer has to see and agree to any promotional work in advance.
- The policy doesn't cover SARS, pneumonia, avian flu, child diseases (such as mumps , measles etc) as well as terrorism, biological and chemical weapons.
- Premium was $437,500 with additional US TRIA (Terrorism Risk Insurance Act) of $1,750,000. Later it's stated that TRIA wasn't bought.
- Full policy was to cover death, accident, illness, unavoidable travel delay, venue damage, adverse weather and national mourning.

- Insurers are notified of concert date moving, they agree to this changes.
- Effective of June 10, insurer agrees to include 7 band members, 4 vocalists and 12 dancers as insured people as well.
- It's stated that AEG rented a house in Chislehurst, Kent from July 2009 to June 2010. The travel from the house to venue will be between 20 minutes to 1 hour.
- It's stated that Michael would travel with 3 cars (4 if his children attend) to and from the venue. They list that 2-3 security guards, his make-up artist and Dr. Conrad Murray would be travelling with him.
- It states that Michael's UK arrival date was July 4th 2009 and the first UK rehearsal was July 8th, 2009.
- Insurers are also sent the plans for the stage and the policy effective June 18 extended to include "cover losses from resulting from problems with the stage,staging or special effects". "Swinging arm" is explicitly mentioned. There are handwritten notes of "how high does the arm go?" , "what % of the show will the arm be used in?", " what effect would there be on the show if the arm didn't work?"

:( *big sigh*



Thanks Ivy!
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Murray's own insurance company is refusing to pay his malpractice insurance and his legal fees. They claim he was not insured to administer anethesia/propofol to anyone. Anesthesiologists have a different insurance than other doctors because their expertise is much more dangerous and riskier. Murray's stupid behind was not even insured to do such a dangerous and stupid thing. Didn't he know that?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

God it all isnt fair! how i wish the was a time machine :cry:
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It , goes to court to invalidate po

Murray's own insurance company is refusing to pay his malpractice insurance and his legal fees. They claim he was not insured to administer anethesia/propofol to anyone. Anesthesiologists have a different insurance than other doctors because their expertise is much more dangerous and riskier. Murray's stupid behind was not even insured to do such a dangerous and stupid thing. Didn't he know that?

I am confused now, so who is paying for his legal fee of the current criminal charge?
It seemed that he hired quite a few lawyers.
If he was broke and the insurance company won't pay, who is paying for him now?
or I am totally misunderstood?
 
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