ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 58s
Attorneys had no more questions to Dr. Matheson. He was then excused. Session is adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9:45 am PT.
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"Conflict of interest erodes judgement unconsciously in a way you're not even aware of it," Dr. Matheson explained.
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As to Dr. Murray buying Propofol, Dr. Matheson said "I think AEG Live enabled it, yes."
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Bina: It wasn't in Dr. Murray's interest to keep MJ unhealthy
Dr. Matheson: No
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Dr. Matheson said the record shows Dr. Finkelstein didn't get the job because MJ wanted to bring his own physician.
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Bloss: How many as severe as the one here?
Dr. Matheson: None
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"The conflict of interest environment in this case was severe," Dr. Matheson opined. He's been in this field for 35 years.
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"I believe AEG indicated, the record indicates AEG acted in way they felt they employed Dr. Murray," Dr. Matheson said.
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"It was effectively put in place and the doctor was engaged whether Mr. Jackson signed it or not," Dr. Matheson explained.
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"It says to me the agreement was being constructed and negotiated without Mr. Jackson's input," Dr. Matheson opined.
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Dr. Matheson said he was not aware of any efforts to send Dr. Murray's contract drafts to MJ's people.
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"A conflict of interest isn't a single event," Dr. Matheson testified. "It's a set of circumstances that develop over a period of time."
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Dr. Matheson said it takes much more than 10 days to wind down a busy practice.
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"It's hard to leave a practice," Dr. Matheson said. He said it takes a long time to build the practice, normally doctors sells the practice.
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Dr. Matheson said he doesn't believe the analogy Bina offered regarding credit card paying for your health care is related to this case.
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As to Dr. Finkelstein, Dr. Matheson said he recalls Gongaware discussed possibility of doctor going on the tour with a couple of conditions.
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Dr. Matheson said he reviewed other depositions with exhibits attached prior to his own deposition.
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Dr. Matheson: Any time symptoms are brought forward, there's a need to be paid attention to. In this case they weren't.
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Dr. Matheson: The concern should be for the artist's health.
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"Likely that was not a friendly meeting, that was a confrontational meeting," Dr. Matheson said about meeting where Dr. Murray left angry.
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"Conflict of interest was set up, physical symptoms appeared and there was an attempt to control those," Dr. Matheson explained.
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"Conflict of interest contributed in a very significant way in Dr. Murray's standard of care," Dr. Matheson opined.
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Murray said he had the situation under control. The issue was that he wasn't reliable, Dr Matheson explained; he was very heavily conflicted
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If MJ was severely stressed about the tour, Dr. Matheson said the producers have to listen to artist. "The artist knows their body better."
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Dr. Matheson said he wasn't suggesting Phillips forced MJ to go to their doctor, but they could've taken him to ER for another set of eyes.
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If Jackson denied it, they should have had a discussion about it, Dr. Matheson opined.
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"We want you to see a doctor before you come back," Dr. Matheson said Phillips could have told.
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Dr. Matheson: Phillips has the right to say I'm concerned with your health, you can't come back to rehearsal until you're checked out
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Bina: Do you think Mr. Phillips has the right to question MJ's health?
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Bina: But, presumably, MJ went home his doctor, right?
Dr. Matheson: There's no record of that
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Bina: So you think it's appropriate for producer to dictate MJ's care?
Dr. Matheson: Phillips was the one receiving the information
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Conflict of interest happened if there was influence on decision making, Dr. Matheson explained.
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Bina: There's nothing wrong with concert promoter to ask if there was anything they can do to help?
Dr. Matheson: Not if used those terms
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Dr. Matheson: That's part of the conflict, yes
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Bina: Isn't the real problem in this case not Dr. Murray's feelings towards AEG, but that he gave in to Michael Jackson?
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Agreement required Dr. Murray to have malpractice insurance.
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Dr. Matheson said he had to fill out a lot of forms and take a test to obtain his license in the US. Dr. Matheson is originally from Canada.
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"To me, this is a document that indicates what the intention was," Dr. Matheson said.
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Dr. Matheson said if there was no reference to service requested by AEG, that sentence wouldn't be part of his opinion.
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Dr. Murray's contract said 'Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.' Bina said the contract was supposed to read "by Artist".
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Dr. Matheson said he's spent 100 hours on this case. He's making $500/hour, which adds up to $50k so far.
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Bina: If I pay for my health care by credit care, does the credit card has the right of dictating my health care?
Dr. Matheson: No
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"He had a choice,"Dr. Matheson said. "That choice may have been to forfeit his job."
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"The greater the conflict, the increased likelihood of bad decisions will be made," Dr. Matheson opined.
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"I don't think it's possible under the terms of this case," Dr. Matheson said.
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Bina: Is it possible to have doctor ethically go on tour with artist?
Dr. Matheson: It's possible if the conditions are right
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After lunch break, Bina resumed cross examination of Dr. Matheson. Katherine Jackson was also present for the afternoon session.
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Bina: Even when you believe the artist is healthy?
Dr. Matheson: It creates a risk
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Dr. Matheson: No. I wouldn’t. The conflict of interest is too high
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Bina: Are you aware of Gongaware's testimony oneffort to get MJ to agree to London doctor but MJ saying no. AEG should not have done that?
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Bina: If MJ said I want to bring my long term doctor on board, your opinion is that AEG should have said No you cannot?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
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Dr. Matheson: "I don’t know if people had concerns about his health. I think people had concerns about the show."
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Bina talked about May 2009 and asked if people were concerned about MJ's health.
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Dr. Matheson: My understanding is that Murray's treatment was episodic not regular.
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"Dr. Murray would still be beholden to AEG," Dr. Matheson opined.
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Bina: What if AEG just fronts $34 million?
Dr. Matheson: Dr. Conrad Murray would be still conflicted
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Bina: Is it fair to say that you are making more money because you agree with the plaintiffs?
Dr. Matheson: I don’t need this job
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"I found the lawyers to be very supportive of evaluating records and making my own decisions," Dr. Matheson said.
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Bina: Would that eliminate the conflict of interest?
Dr. Matheson: It would minimize conflict of interest
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Dr. Matheson: AEG should have said we are not experts in medical care so we want to get experts in medical care to make an assessment.
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Bina asked if MJ told AEG he'd want to bring his personal doctor on tour, what should AEG have done.
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Bina: A group only?
Dr. Matheson: It is hard to imagine only one person.
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Dr. Matheson: I would get people who have expertise in a particular area, develop a particular group in London.
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That is for assessment initially, Dr. Matheson explained. "Then for the tour I would hire a team of people to provide care during the tour."
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"Ethically you'd want an assessment of the artist," Dr. Matheson said. "It would require a team of people because there are various aspects"
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Dr. Matheson: I would set up a staff, conduct a comprehensive medical assessment
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Bina: If you were setting up a tour in Europe, what would you sent up for ethical arrangement?
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Bina: Do you know how the deal for Celine Dion’s doctor is structured? Or Rolling Stones?
Dr. Matheson: No
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Dr. Matheson: Should structure deal so termination and cancellation are not incorporated in deal
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Bina: The only way to structure a deal would be to give $1.5 million up front?
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Bina: Was MJ able to consent to that relationship?
Dr. Matheson: Yes, but signature line put him in contract as a participant
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"The physician's concerns are not going to be the same as treating a football player," Dr. Matheson explained.
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"No injuries are expected in performance as in typical team sports," Dr. Matheson said.
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Bina: Average Medical school grad has $200,000 in debt
Dr. Matheson: Yes. Just to become a doctor is expensive
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Bina: If MJ demanded propofol, begged, Dr. Murray violated his duties? Assuming he did that, did he violate his duties?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
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"If conflict of interest develops, it must be resolved to the patient's interest," Dr. Matheson opined; doctors have duty to patient.
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Bina: You said it's the system's responsibility, but it's physician's responsibility to place the patients welfare first?
Dr Matheson: Yes
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Bina: You are not an expert in the concert industry?
Dr. Matheson: No.
B: Never worked in entertainment industry?
Dr. M: No
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Dr. Matheson reviewed Det. Martinez' testimony, half of Mr. Phillips' testimony (3 days), Kai Chaise and Travis Payne's testimony.
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Dr. Matheson explained plaintiffs chose him because there was a 3 way relationship analogous to the sports industry.
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Bina asked if Dr. Matheson is an expert in general medical ethics. He answered no.
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Bina: It was everyone’s interest to play the entire show?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
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Bina: Dr. Murray was just going to treat MJ and family, not Kenny Ortega or others on tour?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
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Bina: In general a 50 year old man is competent to chose his personal physician?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
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AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did re-cross of Dr Matheson. Bina asked if Stanford reviewed his credit prior to his hire. He said no.
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Dr. Matheson: Although we expect all professionals to act in the best interests of the patient, their judgement is often affected.
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Bloss: How about the fact AEG would be repaid through the proceeds of the tour?
Dr Matheson: The conflict of the interest is still present
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Dr. Matheson: AEG chose to set up that structure and they didn’t have to do that
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Bloss: Does the fact that AEG hired Dr. Murray at the behest of MJ make a difference?
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@AndiSTJ We'll tweet the link as soon as the story is posted.
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"May have to do it over the objection of the player," Dr. Matheson explained.
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"The role of the physician is to make the right decision for the short term and the long term," Dr. Matheson said.
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Bloss asked if an athlete doesn’t want to get out of the game, what should a doctor do.
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Dr. Matheson: When you get information, you need to act on that information rather than label it as hysteria.
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Dr. Matheson said Phillips put forth information regarding a health problem with MJ, qualified by Ortega hysteria.
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Dr. Matheson said emails showed it was business as usual, continued pushback. Kenny’s hysteria is in check.
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Dr. Matheson: It says Phillips is not sure, first says it's covered, then he questions doctors effectiveness.
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As to 'Trouble at the Front' email where Phillips says Dr. Murray 'is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be..."
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"It would have been inappropriate, shows AEG still wanted to manage the doctors decision," Dr. Matheson testified.
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As to Phillips saying "Take the doctor with you", Dr. Matheson said it means AEG wanted to have some input, influence in the meeting.
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Dr. Matheson said Phillips was trying to diagnose the problem, yet Jackson was being put back in rehearsal; that is a concern.
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Dr. Matheson - “First and foremost we want an understanding of what the problem is. That is what leads us to the proper treatment.”
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We just wanted to bring you latest on breaking news. Now back to Dr. Matheson's testimony. ;-)
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Attorney also gave us insight on how Katherine Jackson is coping on the 4th anniversary of MJ's death.
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Watch @ABC7 and
http://www.abc7.com for interview with Jackson's attorney about Prince's testimony tomorrow.
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T.J. Jackson, the co-conservator of MJ's children, will testify after Prince. Taj, T.J.'s brother, will come on Thursday.
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Testimony just ended for the day. Michael Jackson's son, Prince, will take the stand tomorrow!
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As to email "he was shaking, couldn’t cut food, no shape to go on stage” Dr Matheson reacted: "It's indication health concern is serious"
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Matheson opined the email demonstrates “pushback” - Not good for a producer or team owner to be involved directly with the player or artist.
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About Phillips saying 'The doctor is successful, completely unbiased.' Dr. Matheson said that tells exec was aware of conflict of interest
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"It's also evident that there are conflict of interest issues," Dr. Matheson expressed.
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Bloss asked about email from Phillips to Ortega on June 20. Phillips was recognizing the decline of Jackson's health, Dr. Matheson opined.
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Doctor Gordon Matheson resumed testimony. Jacksons' counsel William Bloss doing direct examination.
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Katherine present in bright coral tapestry jacket over black floor length shift. Today is the 4th anniversary of Michael Jackson's death.
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Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 37 of testimony in Jackson family vs AEG trial underway.