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Joe Jackson Gunning to Sue Over MJ's Death

Victoria83 said:
Thanks for posting, but this, in itself, doesn't confirm anything. Joe has said a lot of "odd" things on tv, including that Michael had "another" child. Riiiight. LA Times? Can you post a link? Then we can see if the article says, "sources say," or confirms.

I know there was talk of a private autopsy. Jesse Jackson said "they were getting one." Not that one had been done. Was it? No one credible has said there WAS one done, that we are aware of.

OR, Joe has been cut out of the family loop so profoundly that he doesn't know what the feck is going on? That is also possible.
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Yes Jesse Jackson said they will get one - this was a few days after MJ's death and it was said that the official results will take 6 weeks.
The coroners office said they were notified of the second autopsy (to deliver the body I guess). This is the exact quote "Los Angeles County Coroner's investigator Brian Elias said yesterday that Jackson's family told his office on Friday they want a second autopsy carried out."
LA Times does not list any names - they just say that "sources"
There's also a The Sun article with Oxman who says that the private autopsy is done, the doctor talked with Katherine and the result is the same as the DA's one - but that's Oxman and The Sun so I don't know about that one.
Just like ensleyave said there are also several interviews that quote LaToya saying that she ordered the second private autopsy and etc etc.
And then the Larry King interview of Joe that I posted before. that is the most credible one as Joe himself acknowledges that a second autopsy has indeed been done.

See that is the problem with Joe. You never know if he is telling the truth or not or if he is really sincere or if there is a some sort of a hidden agenda underneath it. And if the family is supporting him in his actions why would they keep him out of the loop.
 
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Please! At the sametime AEG had Michael under contract, Joe and Leonard Rowe were putting the PRESSURE on Michael to perform in that family reunion with AllGood Entertainment.
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Thats a completely seperate issue to caring about your sons death, how it happened and wanting those responsible to come to justice.

Just because he put pressure on Michael to perform a concert, doesn't equal that he doesn't care about his son's death or how it happened.
 
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Victoria83 said:
OR, Joe has been cut out of the family loop so profoundly that he doesn't know what the feck is going on? That is also possible.
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He said in that interview ivy posted that he didn't ask for the results he figured they'd show them to him, whatever that date was that he said it.

Well the media call him 'clueless Joe'.

Clueless Joe Jackson Demands Justice in Michael's Death



Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy​
They may have had a contentious relationship when Michael Jackson was alive, but Joe Jackson really does care about his son and wants to make sure authorities get to the bottom of how he died.
"I keep thinking, I just can't believe this happened to him," the family patriarch told NBC's Today in an interview taped Saturday (on what would have been Michael's 51st birthday) that aired this morning. "I'm fine, I'm just still grieving over my son's loss, because he was the greatest all over the world. And I'm proud of that."
As for the ongoing police probe and the coroner's ruling that Michael's June 25 death was a homicide brought on by an overdose of prescription medications?
"I'm mad...because I didn't know all of this was going on. I didn't know he was taking that type of medication,"the elder Jackson said. "We want justice to be done, and that's what's being done."
Asked his thoughts about possible criminal charges being filed against Dr. Conrad Murray, the entertainer's personal physician, giving him what authorities say was a lethal dose of a powerful anesthetic on the morning of Michael's death, Joe replied, "It tells me there was foul play done and more to be investigated to see what really is behind all this stuff, not just Dr. Conrad Murray.
"Someone should pay. Not just someone but all of them should pay that was involved. "
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Rockin. said:
Thats a completely seperate issue to caring about your sons death, how it happened and wanting those responsible to come to justice.

Just because he put pressure on Michael to perform a concert, doesn't equal that he doesn't care about his son's death or how it happened.
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If he REALLY cared about his son, he would not have been putting pressure on him in the first place!

That would have been STEP ONE!

And like I said previously, IF AEG had put Joe Jackson on their payroll, would we even be having this conversation?
 
Big Apple2 said:
If he REALLY cared about his son, he would not have been putting pressure on him in the first place!

That would have been STEP ONE!

And like I said previously, IF AEG had put Joe Jackson on their payroll, would we even be having this conversation?
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I dont know what type of pressure you are saying joe was putting on michael, according to rowe and some fans that was around michael the pressure was put on him by dr thome and aeg to do 50 shows, that michael did not want to do according to these people that was around him, I dont think joe would want to be on AEG payroll when he think they may be involved in michael death,and have you forgot that joe stood by michael side through out the trial and why would he not so the same now!
 
Victoria83 said:
As we know, Murray went in the ambulance with Michael to the hospital. Murray then left the hospital. Someone must have picked him up (he had no car with him). The girlfriend? He did not return to Michael's house for his own car. The police towed his car on the evening of the 25th. On the 26th, it was reported on CNN that he could not be located. He surfaced as some point (on that Sunday?), and was interviewed by the police. He could have made himself available at any time, but chose not to, at first. He did not need a lawyer physically present. He simply could have refused to answer any questions without a lawyer present. In my opinion, he should have remained at the hospital in anticipation of giving a statement. Instead, he had someone pick him up as he left, abruptly. The world's most famous person had died, and he owed Michael . . . and everyone. . .better than that.
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Thats your opinion. My opinion in a case like that is that you get your lawyer first. You don't talk to the police without counsel present. You have NO way of knowing where he went. He could have walked out the front door and taken a cab.
 
Rockin. said:
Thats a completely seperate issue to caring about your sons death, how it happened and wanting those responsible to come to justice.

Just because he put pressure on Michael to perform a concert, doesn't equal that he doesn't care about his son's death or how it happened.
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Or that he was one of the biggest stresses in Michaels life.
 
I also remember Londell McMillan saying in a tv interview that he saw the private autopsy results and that they gave cause for concern. Sorry, I don't remember where or when exactly, but it was definitely before the official toxicology announcement, I's guess late July/early August, maybe someone remembers better.
 
I believe that there have been 2 autopsies done.

Honestly I think that Oxman is trying to file anything and everything towards the estate in the hopes that something will stick.

I don't see a clear purpose. Joe asks for an allowance but yet at the same time says that the signature on the will is fake but also adds the past accusations towards Branca. Judge denies his request then he comes with request of the UCLA records and at the same time again bashes the estate for not giving him money for the wrongful death suit.

You know what I mean? Asking something from the estate but yet at the same time blaming them for something else too. It looks so uncoordinated. For example if you think that the will is invalid then you'd focus on that and not put money in the mix.

Anyway it might be a tactic as well such as give me money or I'll try to invalidate the will etc. I really do not know what the think when Joe is involved.
 
They would have charged the estate for it , after all they asked them to pay for their clothes at the funeral , why do you think they would not ask for the money back ?

and Janet is the only one who could afford to pay for it , the brothers and Latoya were busy collecting money from selling stories to tabs to pay for standing loans and debts .Katherine had no money nor joe . It is janet who would have paid for it and Janet was paid every dime she spent on MJ's funeral , I think they would have asked the estate .

Latoya told Newsof the world she had the results with her and MJ'a arms were riddled with needle marks plus four on his neck , then in another sentence she said she was told by a doctor at UCLA there were fresh needle marks on MJ arms .

she said look they found oxygen tanks (reported by TABLOIDS) there was an IV stand , and there was needle marks on his body so propofol killed him .

she is repeating whateveryone was saying at the time , she had no results and she knew nothing but what she was hearing from the tabloids . she connected the dots and made up a story confirming everything TMZ and other sources were claiming . That was it .
I don't believe they did a second one .
 
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Ivy, that is a good point you made. IF he wants information he needs to focus on that. If he wants money just focus on that. He is being very contadictory in his claims right now. Don't quite understand the direction he is trying to go.
If he want to be taken serious get rid of Oxman.

He should wait on the wrongful death suit let the DA and the Defense provide most of the info and research. It would be cheaper for the family that way most the information would be done for them and then file.
 
Beachlover said:
Thats your opinion. My opinion in a case like that is that you get your lawyer first. You don't talk to the police without counsel present. You have NO way of knowing where he went. He could have walked out the front door and taken a cab.
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True. There is the law. . . of course. There is the law, and there is also personal integrity, and there is how one chooses to live one's life. . . . . Integrity trumps law, in the larger picture. Character is all we have, in the end. Right? I don't CARE "where he went." I only care... that he left, instead of facing it.

My "opinion" is that integrity should have told him that thousands, if not millions, of people would grieve, and that he had only one patient, and that patient died. The most famous person in the world, DIED, under his watch. Instead of "taking a cab," he should have faced it, and told what he knew. Right then. For the sake of so many. . . . .

We will agree to disagree.
 
Victoria83 said:
True. There is the law. . . of course. There is the law, and there is also personal integrity, and there is how one chooses to live one's life. . . . . Integrity trumps law, in the larger picture. Character is all we have, in the end. Right? I don't CARE "where he went." I only care... that he left, instead of facing it.

My "opinion" is that integrity should have told him that thousands, if not millions, of people would grieve, and that he had only one patient, and that patient died. The most famous person in the world, DIED, under his watch. Instead of "taking a cab," he should have faced it, and told what he knew. Right then. For the sake of so many. . . . .

We will agree to disagree.
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You live in the real world? I do. A black man facing the police in Los Angeles after Michael Jackson dies gets a lawyer first unless he is a complete idiot.

Reports say he SPOKE TO THE FAMILY.

Re facing the police? Nope. We definitely disagree here. You do not know what he said to anyone else there as those people have not spoken. Again, a black man that speaks to the police offering up information without his lawyer present is pretty much a moron.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Please! At the sametime AEG had Michael under contract, Joe and Leonard Rowe were putting the PRESSURE on Michael to perform in that family reunion with AllGood Entertainment.

Michael said NO to the AllGood reunion concert, why couldn't Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe take NO for an answer!

And while all of this was going on, Joe and Leonard Rowe were hoping AND praying that AEG would have put them both on the AEG payroll.

As far as I'm concerned, all Mr. Jackson wants is MONEY, so that he can travel in high fashion, pay a fee to his 2 "supposed" assistance, and give an allowance to his daughter and HER daughter.

I wonder what today's conversation would be, IF Joe Jackson would have been on AEG's payroll!
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Very true.

There was no second autopsy done or else they would've told the estate pay for it, basically dead Michael pay for it just like he paid for their funeral clothes. Because a bunch of middle aged and even older people are unable to buy clothes for a funeral for themselves.
 
Beachlover said:
You live in the real world? I do. A black man facing the police in Los Angeles after Michael Jackson dies gets a lawyer first unless he is a complete idiot.

Reports say he SPOKE TO THE FAMILY.

Re facing the police? Nope. We definitely disagree here. You do not know what he said to anyone else there as those people have not spoken. Again, a black man that speaks to the police offering up information without his lawyer present is pretty much a moron.
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As much as I hate Murray, I have to agree. Any black person knows that if you get into trouble with the law, you don't talk to the police until you get lawyer. I was taught that before I was 16. You can see what happens when you go without a lawyer because those are usually the people who end up making false confessions.

So, I can't really blame Murray, although I felt he should not had ran. I also feel it does not take two days to get your lawyer and just downright disappear in that time frame.
 
Beachlover said:
You live in the real world? I do. A black man facing the police in Los Angeles after Michael Jackson dies gets a lawyer first unless he is a complete idiot.

Reports say he SPOKE TO THE FAMILY.

Re facing the police? Nope. We definitely disagree here. You do not know what he said to anyone else there as those people have not spoken. Again, a black man that speaks to the police offering up information without his lawyer present is pretty much a moron.
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According to Frank and Phillips , MJ was dead and the doctors waited for Katherine to come ,once she came they told her and pronounced him dead . No family member was there at the time , that's why Frank and Murray went to tell MJ's kids , when Latoya arrived and she was the second member to be there , Paris was crying and told her why daddy died and he had the best doctor in the world with him , Latoya went to ask him what happened to her brother , he said he did not know what happened and he's sorry he could not help him ' mumbled a few words' then he disappeared .

That's what happened , Chernoff later claimed Murray went and asked the family to do an autopsy because there was no reason mj would be dead, but beside Latoya he did not meet anyone and did not talk to anyone from MJ's family . He disappeared immediately after MJ was pronounced dead because he knew the police would be there any minute .

and he knew his rights for sure , he did not need to disappear for two damn days , he could have met the investigators and told them I want a lawyer . But he had to go and make up a story and create a timeline and probably do some research on the drugs he gave , I'm sure the first thing the investigators are going to look for on his hardware is the word propofol .
 
Soundmind said:
According to Frank and Phillips , MJ was dead and the doctors waited for Katherine to come ,once she came they told her and pronounced him dead . No family member was there at the time , that's why Frank and Murray went to tell MJ's kids , when Latoya arrived and she was the second member to be there , Paris was crying and told her why daddy died and he had the best doctor in the world with him , Latoya went to ask him what happened to her brother , he said he did not know what happened and he's sorry he could not help him ' mumbled a few words' then he disappeared .

That's what happened , Chernoff later claimed Murray went and asked the family to do an autopsy because there was no reason mj would be dead, but beside Latoya he did not meet anyone and did not talk to anyone from MJ's family . He disappeared immediately after MJ was pronounced dead because he knew the police would be there any minute .

and he knew his rights for sure , he did not need to disappear for two damn days , he could have met the investigators and told them I want a lawyer . But he had to go and make up a story and create a timeline and probably do some research on the drugs he gave , I'm sure the first thing the investigators are going to look for on his hardware is the word propofol .
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I still don't understand the logic that Murray didn't know what killed him after he pumped him full of drugs and then left the freaking room. As a doctor, you can't be that dense.

Also, wouldn't you research a drug before you give it to anyone? Seriously, who does he think he is fooling here?
 
~* White Chocolate *~ said:
First and only warning. This is NOT a thread about Conrad Murray. Keep on topic, or thread WILL be closed.

You have been warned. Carry on...
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don't ya think it's hard not talking about the doctor that killed michael in a thread about michael's father suing over his death.
 
vncwilliam said:
i know this is hard to see, apparently, but mj didn't need to tour. when a catalogue is a fountain, there is no such thing as spending more than you can make.
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The catalog is not a neverending cash-flow "fountain". Its net worth is different than what it gave MJ in residual income. Its very possible to spend more than you have coming in.
 
Again, I don't understand why he subpeoned the UCLA for autopsy results. My understanding is that the UCLA didn't do the autopsy, so if I'm correct, they wouldn't be able to give Joe autopsy documents anyway.

My understanding is that he wants to know what exactly happened in the last hours : Paramedics reports, first assessment when MJ got to the ER, what they did.

To me, this is slightly different from an autopsy result. What I don't know is if this kind of information is included in an autopsy report or not. I'm assuming they're not.

I suppose the LAPD has access to the UCLA medical records ? Or that the UCLA staff and the paramedics can be questionned ?

I think the autopsy will only give a cause of death, approximate time of death, and general state of health.

Now the actual time of death is very important here, we know it was NOT 2.26 pm. Michael was certainly dead before that. I don't know how precisely they can figure out the time of death, but this info could make a huge difference : if he was dead at 10 or 11am, then that's a completely different story. The paramedics reports and ER reports could help with this. They could also help bring out details of what happened in the last hours. Details that might not be in an autopsy report.

I don't want to go into Joe's motives, we have no way of knowing what they are at this moment, we can only speculate. I don't like what he did to his children, I don't like his public "blunders", but we are talking about his son's death. Family relations are complicated.

I can understand him wanting to find out what happened exactly, at least to clear things as completely as possible, and if and when appropriate, sueing anybody related, if there are other people involved.

What I don't understand is that it should be Katherine, and not Joe doing this. Maybe she has, and we don't know, idk.

Now, I've read that Katherine doesn't get a full allowance, and that she can't get the money because of an old lawsuit. In the past, it seems that Michael would not give money to Joe directly, among other reasons because he knew Joe could not handle money well. So he would give it to Katherine, and she would use it the way she wanted, and Joe would have to go through her to get money.
So maybe he just wanted to have someone who knows Joe well to control and limit what he gets, so that if absolutely needed, Joe wouldn't be in trouble.

So maybe Katherine is not able to give him anything now, even if she wanted to, so he's got to find other ways. Which would be why she apparently agrees to him getting an allowance.

edit : Weitzman's answer to Oxman, about the UCLA subpoena, with the list of docs that Joe asked for, according to Weitzman : http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1231_jackson_ucla_wm.pdf
 
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I would also like to add that there is no evident that he used it during the trail. His entire family was staying with him during that time period, so they would had noticed. Also, he only used propofol when he had a doctor. Even Nurse Lee said he wanted someone to help give him propofol, not that he wanted propofol from her. So, he was hardly reckless since he wanted someone train in medicine to be by his side. Also, even if he did use propofol during the trial, that does not count as chronic usage. Otherwise, that is what would had killed him in the end.

Btw, how do you know that none of the other Jacksons had problems with drugs? There hardly any reporting on them, even when they went to trial for spousal abuse and child support. So, you can't really say no one else had a drug problem and elusive already shot a hole in that theory.


Btw Lacey, can you upload this report you are talking about? You got me curious.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
lol nice one.


theres no evidence of that. using it supposedly during the history tour is not years and considering he had doctors who were there to give him it with a medical clinic in tow u act as if mj was buying the stuff and injecting it himself. ofcourse its all mjs fault that a doc tells him its fine to use aslong as a doctor is there. are u as intrested in blaming the doctor who gave this to mj the first time and said it was fine to use or is it all on mj.

many ppl are to blame for causing the hell mj had to go through in life joe certainly didnt help in the last months when he and rowe were harrassing mj into letting them in on the concerts


janet actuall got drugs through false names via her doc who got in trouble for it. your wording it very obvious for a self proclaimed fan. mj got addicted to painkillers via his treatment in 93 and his other well documented personal problems. u word things like mj was a crackhead. reckless? so hiring adoctor to treat and look after you is reckless? a doctor who says its fine to use aslong as u are monitored. the only one being reckless was murray but i guess its all mikes fault
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Thank you! I can't stand pretenders.
 
Ramona122003 said:
I would also like to add that there is no evident that he used it during the trail. His entire family was staying with him during that time period, so they would had noticed. Also, he only used propofol when he had a doctor. Even Nurse Lee said he wanted someone to help give him propofol, not that he wanted propofol from her. So, he was hardly reckless since he wanted someone train in medicine to be by his side. Also, even if he did use propofol during the trial, that does not count as chronic usage. Otherwise, that is what would had killed him in the end.

Btw, how do you know that none of the other Jacksons had problems with drugs? There hardly any reporting on them, even when they went to trial for spousal abuse and child support. So, you can't really say no one else had a drug problem and elusive already shot a hole in that theory.


Btw Lacey, can you upload this report you are talking about? You got me curious.
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here's one source

http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/index.asp?ses=ogst&section_id=1&show=dept&article_id=7579
 
here's another source

http://www.farleycenter.com/resources/articles/2009-07-07/spotlight-diprivan-and-propofol-addiction

see particularly this part

It is also worth mentioning that Diprivan abuse in the traumatized patient is fundamentally avoidant in nature. That is to say, that avoiding hyperarousal and the affective intensity of life is a powerful drive that is accomplished immediately and, in the words of one of my patients, "magically" with Diprivan. This probably explains some of the connection between PTSD and Diprivan. Also, over half of the patients with PTSD suffer from severe insomnia.
 
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