HIStory Tour Discussion - Should it be released? [Merged]

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

^ Don't forget you also have the J5 Medley! But number one, it's old! Number two the choreography is old! Jackie's old!

 

[Gatesy2006]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but to me the HIStory tour was piss poor, he looked sluggish and tiresome and he was clearly going through the motions, as if he was going through the numbers off instinct, every single bit of footage I have seen of that tour he is phoning it in. Do people really want that for his image? To see him energetically at his least?

Do a docu on HIStory the album, sure no doubt, but do NOT release anything from the HIStory tour, I wouldn't give it the time of day.

Am I not a true fan now? Because I'm blunt and honest?

 

[Psychoniff]

What puzzles me is that History got a release for Seoul but there still no J5 or Jackson's Tour DVD. So why are people still demanding History Tour DVD?

Duplicate

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

What puzzles me is that History got a release for Seoul but there still no J5 or Jackson's Tour DVD. So why are people still demanding History Tour DVD?

no one is "demanding" anything?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but to me the HIStory tour was piss poor, he looked sluggish and tiresome and he was clearly going through the motions, as if he was going through the numbers off instinct, every single bit of footage I have seen of that tour he is phoning it in. Do people really want that for his image? To see him energetically at his least?

Do a docu on HIStory the album, sure no doubt, but do NOT release anything from the HIStory tour, I wouldn't give it the time of day.

Am I not a true fan now? Because I'm blunt and honest?

I don't know how much footage from HIStory tour you have seen, but it's not true that on every single piece of footage from the tour, he look "sluggish". he does in some of it, yes, and he doesn't sound very good in some of it, either...but not EVERYTHING. some of the concerts he looks and sounds absolutely fine
sheesh...no one has said anything about anyone not being a true fan because of what they've said, so stop it

 

[barbee0715]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

But look at how much better that performance got when the live vocals came in on Man In The Mirror. It was already a great performance to begin with, but those live vocals took it to the next level

Grammy's 1988 was one of MJ's best vocal performances of all time

IMO it is the greatest performance of all time. If I wanted to show anyone Michael's greatness, I'd pull that out and APOM.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but to me the HIStory tour was piss poor, he looked sluggish and tiresome and he was clearly going through the motions, as if he was going through the numbers off instinct, every single bit of footage I have seen of that tour he is phoning it in. Do people really want that for his image? To see him energetically at his least?

I don't even understand why this is considered "criticism". No one is criticizing Michael. We know how fantastic he is.
But when I happen to see one of the zillion versions of History tour on YouTube or even look at some pictures on the infamous gold pants thread, I don't feel criticism in me. I feel concern, caring and compassion.

He looks sick and oh so tired and forcing himself to get through those shows. My heart hurts for him. I don't know if he did it because he had to promote the album or he wanted to do it for the fans or if he needed the money but it's just sad. I don't ever see anything that tells me this is the most spectacular live show of all time.
One time and only one time the tank scene moved me to tears but it's because I was thinking of the wars the kids in the audience had gone through at that moment.

It's on tv in Europe all the time and obviously it's easy to turn into 3d and release it. That doesn't mean they should do it if they're really thinking about his legacy and not money.
The 30th anniversary plays here all the time in the US. It's even worse. I never watch it. They could turn it into 3d and release it too but I pray they never consider it.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Which is a reason why his other tours need to be shown. To show people that Michael wasn't a lip sync artist who couldn't sing live.

I think no one thinks that.

 

[Gatesy2006]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Exactly, release something nobody has seen before, like something from the J5 days or very early '80s. I'm all on board for a HIStory album docu, no question, but want to see nothing form the tour released.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I think no one thinks that.

who cares what others think anyway...I don't need to prove anything to anyone...I'm a fan, that's what matters to me, not what other people think about him....

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

What puzzles me is that History got a release for Seoul...

Yeah, in Korea! And on VHS! And it's not available anymore.

So why are people still demanding History Tour DVD?

Because there is no officially released (worldwide) concert from that tour on DVD or any other medium.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Exactly, release something nobody has seen before, like something from the J5 days or very early '80s. I'm all on board for a HIStory album docu, no question, but want to see nothing form the tour released.

It's pretty sad that this thread too turned into (yet another) HIStory tour discussion. There are so many lot more exciting and more important aspects of the HIStory album and era.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

who cares what others think anyway...I don't need to prove anything to anyone...I'm a fan, that's what matters to me, not what other people think about him....

Yeah, of course. But no one in the world think that "Michael was a lip sync artist who couldn't sing live". And no one will think that after seeing HIStory Tour. It's just that some fans here don't like the HIStory Tour and they are "overprotective" of MJ's live vocal capabilities and live vocal performances that they have the need to "defend" him or "protect" his legacy even though no one or nothing is threatening MJ or his legacy. And even though MJ while perfectly healthy and young enough consciously decided to lip sync on many of his performances long before the HIStory Tour that are widely available to regular public and that are critically acclaimed and thought of by many as some of his best live performances and some of the best performances ever by any artist.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Yeah, in Korea! And on VHS! And it's not available anymore.



Because there is no officially released (worldwide) concert from that tour on DVD or any other medium.

yeah, and both Bad and Dangerous tours have been released....so it would only be fair to release HIStory tour as well

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Yeah, of course. But no one in the world think that "Michael was a lip sync artist who couldn't sing live".

Yes, actually a lot of people say that. I have seen that on YT and people said the same about workmates in another thread recently. That one of the most often heard criticism re. MJ that "he never sang live". And it's so unfair because it's untrue. But if HIStory and the mimed award show performances are all they ever see, no wonder they think that. The Estate needs to refute this false myth now, not further cement it.

In any case, any mention of the HWT always turns into a huge controversy, even here on a fan board. I think the Estate needs to take note of that and think twice whether it really is a good idea.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Yeah, of course. But no one in the world think that "Michael was a lip sync artist who couldn't sing live". And no one will think that after seeing HIStory Tour. It's just that some fans here don't like the HIStory Tour and they are "overprotective" of MJ's live vocal capabilities and live vocal performances that they have the need to "defend" him or "protect" his legacy even though no one or nothing is threatening MJ or his legacy. And even though MJ while perfectly healthy and young enough consciously decided to lip sync on many of his performances long before the HIStory Tour that are widely available to regular public and that are critically acclaimed and thought of by many as some of his best live performances and some of the best performances ever by any artist.

yeah, I've never heard anyone, fans or not, say that about him, ever since HIStory tour happened, 20 years ago. in fact, I had never heard anyone, even fans, who are unhappy with his lip-synced on HIStory tour, or anywhere else for that matter, before I read it on THIS forum
and saying his lip sync performances before HIStory tour is some of his best performances ever, and then go on and bash HIStory tour for it, is hypocrisy

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Here are some YT comments I've read from BAD and Dangerous Tour shows

''Wow! This is live? He usually lip syncs most of the time!''

''One of the few times he sings live''

''He's singing live? This is rare''

''I always thought he lip synced''


The fact that people are surprised that Michael did sing live is really sad. The fact that he was a great live singer shouldn't be a surprise to people

Very sad indeed.

The Estate clearly has a job to do there, to refute that myth. A highly promoted HWT release will only do the contrary.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

It wasn't great, not even close.

In your opinion. Opinions are subjective. Everyone has one .

watch Bad tour and watch HIStory tour and then tell me it's great.

I did. It's great. But it's not fair that I have to watch HIStory Tour on youtube or on pirated DVD from TV rip. It deserves to be officially released. Theaters or not. 3D or not. But it deserves to be released at least on DVD/blu-ray. If they don't release it to cinemas I think it will be a missed opportunity but of course I'll live without it.

 

[Gatesy2006]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

In your opinion. Opinions are subjective. Everyone has one .



I did. It's great. But it's not fair that I have to watch HIStory Tour on youtube or on pirated DVD from TV rip. It deserves to be officially released. Theaters or not. 3D or not. But it deserves to be released at least on DVD/blu-ray. If they don't release it to cinemas I think it will be a missed opportunity but of course I'll live without it.

Yes the Bad tour is great, he's in his prime, singing live and dancing like no one else could do on this planet, HIStory by contrast is slow, weary, lip synching. The tour doesn't do his legacy any good at all. He had more energy on the 30th anniversary shows when he was drugged up for crying out loud, that's how bad HIStory is.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

You act like you HIStory tour is some underrepresented, hidden thing MJ's career that needs to be brought to light. It is not. In fact, it was on TV in high quality several times, it has probably the most videos on YT from any MJ tour. Meanwhile we have never had anything official (whether a concert circulated many times on TV or a DVD release) from the Victory tour, for example. Or Triumph or Destiny. Or find a damn HQ tape of the Bad Tour already and show that on TV! Any of this stuff would be new to the general public. The HIStory tour is not.

I never ever said that the other tours shouldn't be celebrated and released. I want them all. And I want every tour to have the same treatment - officially. I'm not interested in TV rips, bootlegs or leaks of stolen material. It's not HIStory's fault that other tours didn't get their release. And if they finally decide to release one of his tours (in this case they mentioned HIStory) I think everybody should support it. Just like it's Destiny, Triumph, Victory, Bad or Dangerous. Or Jackson 5 Tour or 30th anniversary celebration or any other concert special. It's not a competition. If they have HIStory ready for release and if they planned a celebration around it and the whole project.. just let them do it and let's hope that every tour will get the same treatment.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I never ever said that the other tours shouldn't be celebrated and released. I want them all. And I want every tour to have the same treatment - officially. I'm not interested in TV rips, bootlegs or leaks of stolen material. It's not HIStory's fault that other tours didn't get their release. And if they finally decide to release one of his tours (in this case they mentioned HIStory) I think everybody should support it. Just like it's Destiny, Triumph, Victory, Bad or Dangerous. Or Jackson 5 Tour or 30th anniversary celebration or any other concert special. It's not a competition. If they have HIStory ready for release and if they planned a celebration around it and the whole project.. just let them do it and let's hope that every tour will get the same treatment.

But your argument for the HIStory tour is that "it should not be hidden". It's not hidden at all! It's already out there, right, left and center. I think "unfortunately", but even if you don't think so, it's not some hidden thing that no one ever had the chance to watch in high quality. The Estate now should focus on things that the general public actually did not yet have a chance to watch and that is much better than the HIStory tour. Victory tour IS hidden! Destiny tour IS hidden! Triumph tour IS hidden! The HIStory tour is absolutely NOT! HIStory tour can wait until there is really nothing better to release. Simply because it is very counterproductive to release something like that, esp. as a part of a highly promoted project, in an atmosphere where MJ is starting to get boxed in as a "lyp sync" artist. Show that is not so and blow them away with something like the Victory tour or Bad tour!

 

[barbee0715]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

In your opinion. Opinions are subjective. Everyone has one .



I did. It's great. But it's not fair that I have to watch HIStory Tour on youtube or on pirated DVD from TV rip. It deserves to be officially released. Theaters or not. 3D or not. But it deserves to be released at least on DVD/blu-ray. If they don't release it to cinemas I think it will be a missed opportunity but of course I'll live without it.

I can agree with that. All the tours should be available to buy and watch and definitely you deserve to buy an official copy of the History tour. Not in the cinemas but release it for who really wants it.
I imagine you're as frustrated having to watch it on YouTube as I am having to watch Destiny and Triumph and the variety shows there.

Now back to the doc. Who are some other good directors if Spike isn't willing.

 

[Lil]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

And what if I think that that is very good and positive for Michael's image?

Then I guess we have very different opinions on what's good for his image

Exactly. I wanted to post the same thing! It's clear to me that some fans here don't like the HIStory Tour and they are against its release because they don't like the Tour, not MJ's lip syncing. Because if they were against lip syncing they wouldn't be supporting almost every single performance MJ did outside of his tours and almost half of his solo tours. So obviously it's not the lip syncing that bothers them but it's always their main reason why are they against HIStory Tour release. It's hypocrisy and selfishness in my opinion.

I understand they want something else to be released insead. But why not support every project (if it's done properly and respectfully) even if you're not a fan of that particular part of MJ's career?

^so untrue. I'd never be against a release of anything Michael's done simply because it isn't my personal favorite, and I don't think any fan would. In fact, it's the other way around. I mean, I love the Bad Tour, I watch it more than any of the other tours but I would be VERY happy with a Dangerous, Triumph, Victory etc. release because they absolutely do him justice, which is most important. If it's going to be a big release aimed at the general public (shown in cinema's etc) it's not about personal preferences imo, it's about his legacy.
I don't want the HIStory tour to represent Michael as 'the greatest entertainer' to the general public because he simply wasn't on that tour. Not just because of the lip syncing, he didn't look or sound good most of the time. He looked unhappy. The tour is obviously his weakest, even if you personally love it, why would you want to choose that one to represent him if there so much better material out there?

Btw, I think those last couple of minutes where he sung live at the Grammy's is why it was mentioned as one of his best performances..

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I guess I Should read Youtube comments more often :lol:
seriously though, those comments don't bother me. I look at it the same way as the tabloid stuff...when people think he's a freak or a weirdo, who had a ton of plastic surgery, or whatever, it doesn't get to me. I know my Michael stuff well enough to know better than that. and if the whole world thinks he's a weirdo who couldn't do anything but lip sync, I simply DO NOT CARE! he's already one of the biggest icons of all time, and nothings EVER gonna touch that. no matter how much he lip synced, and the fact that people are aware of he did it, fans or not, does not affect his status. people will always have their opinions about him, no matter what he did, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the biggest legend ever

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Yes the Bad tour is great, he's in his prime, singing live and dancing like no one else could do on this planet, HIStory by contrast is slow, weary, lip synching. The tour doesn't do his legacy any good at all. He had more energy on the 30th anniversary shows when he was drugged up for crying out loud, that's how bad HIStory is.

:fear: :ermm: From the sound of this post (and many others) it's clear to me that the crowing from fans (outside of the US) bragging about us not getting a tour date (except for Hawaii) is unjustified. Apparently we didn't miss much. Ok, we missed a live view of the GOLD PANTS, but we still didn't miss out on that because there are entire forums/threads dedicated to them. Up close. And YUMMY, including this site... :heat: :dribble: :swoon:

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

:fear: :ermm: From the sound of this post (and many others) it's clear to me that the crowing from fans (outside of the US) bragging about us not getting a tour date (except for Hawaii) is unjustified. Apparently we didn't miss much. Ok, we missed a live view of the GOLD PANTS, but we still didn't miss out on that because there are entire forums/threads dedicated to them. Up close. And YUMMY, including this site... :heat: :dribble: :swoon:

very very very very very thankful that those deliciously yummy pics exists :yes: especially those close ups :woohoo::woohoo::dribble: :swoon:

 

[SarahJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

What I'd love to see is a compilation of his best moments from all of his tours in one concert doc., including any raw backstage and rehearsal footage. Starting from J5 and up, including the HIStory tour which for me personally I have no problem with. But as mentioned earlier nothing has been confirmed yet and may not be. I wish they'd say something about Dangerous since it is the albums anniversary.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

What I'd love to see is a compilation of his best moments from all of his tours in one concert doc., including any raw backstage and rehearsal footage. Starting from J5 and up, including the HIStory tour which for me personally I have no problem with. But as mentioned earlier nothing has been confirmed yet and may not be. I wish they'd say something about Dangerous since it is the albums anniversary.

now, that would be awesome! especially backstage and rehearsal footage :yes: but it would have to be full performances of songs...not only short clips where they're talking while showing them

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Btw, I think those last couple of minutes where he sung live at the Grammy's is why it was mentioned as one of his best performances..

seriously?? do people really dissect his performances like that?? they only like a couple of minutes of a whole performance, and then call it one of his best performances ever?? :huh: :blink: wow...that's really, really narrow minded...

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

seriously?? do people really dissect his performances like that?? they only like a couple of minutes of a whole performance, and then call it one of his best performances ever?? :huh: :blink: wow...that's really, really narrow minded...

How is that "narrow-minded"? Yes, even a couple of minutes of live singing can take a performance to another level as opposed to a fully lip synced performance, let alone an almost fully lip synced concert tour. That's just the huge difference between lip sync and live singing. That's why I said earlier if they are going to include anything from HIStory tour in the documentary let it be Earth Song from Brunei, where you have a great ad lib performance at the end.

 

[RIP_2009]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Bad was a gold mine of possibilities that were thrown away. I have no idea what exists for Dangerous as far as unseen footage, but whatever does should be put in the hands of someone who can do it justice.

No disrespect to Spike, because I do enjoy Bad25, but I don't feel he's the right man for the job.

I agree and its a shame that the remastered versions of the promo videos from BAD album wasnt included on blu-ray.
The short clips from Bad looks amazing to the poor 4:3 versions that is available now.

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Here are some YT comments I've read from BAD and Dangerous Tour shows

''Wow! This is live? He usually lip syncs most of the time!''

''One of the few times he sings live''

''He's singing live? This is rare''

''I always thought he lip synced''


The fact that people are surprised that Michael did sing live is really sad. The fact that he was a great live singer shouldn't be a surprise to people

By the content of examples you posted, those people already new he was a great singer as they did not just "accidentally" stumbled to ytube watching those clips.

To be honest, those comments are not much different than some of the comments I read here, or other threads where History tour is being discussed.
Obviously the first comment comes from some sort of fan because of the wording "usually" which I take that she/he has watched many other MJ concerts.
Tbh, if I am not fan of someone, I sure not going to spend my time watching someones concerts over and over again if I have no interest in.


"One of the few times he signs live"
This again tells me that this person has watched many concerts, thus supposed fan.

"This is rare" also means that this person has watched many concerts.

We know that there are fans (in this thread too) that love and dwell of the prospect that they can hear their own voice and criticise Michael for what ever reason, and even if they release something MJ signing his heart out, these people will find something to critize as most common comeback is "MJ was human" "has flaws" etc stuff, meaning that they give themselves permission say what they want, all while patting themselves in the back for being able to give us their honest opinion.

Not releasing History tour is not going to change these peoples perception that is already deep rooted in their minds.
Releasing History tour also is not going to change anything, and if few more people post in ytube "wow, he doesn't sing live" who cares about those comments.
Who cares about if some critic says something nasty, because some of them do say something nasty no matter what, and nothing can change their mind of MJ.