HIStory Tour Discussion - Should it be released? [Merged]

[Lil]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

seriously?? do people really dissect his performances like that?? they only like a couple of minutes of a whole performance, and then call it one of his best performances ever?? :huh: :blink: wow...that's really, really narrow minded...

Narrow-minded..?:blink: It's not 'dissecting' his performance, it's pretty obvious where the tape ends and the live vocals come in, and with Michael singing from his damn soul like he did, it's only natural that part has a much greater impact and takes the entire performance to another level. You get to feel all of that raw emotion and it sends chills down my spine! It wouldn't have been as good if it was completely lip synced. Such a performance can be very entertaining, but lets not forget he's an amazing vocalist too, and him singing live definitely adds a LOT to his performances.
But yes, the lip synced parts were great as well, his whole performance and energy were 1000x more impressive than any HIStory tour concert. It's no comparison.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Not releasing History tour is not going to change these peoples perception that is already deep rooted in their minds.
Releasing History tour also is not going to change anything, and if few more people post in ytube "wow, he doesn't sing live" who cares about those comments.

How do you know what it would or would not change? If they always keep putting out those shows out to the big public (ie. TVs playing it over and over again) where he did not sing live then of course many people don't even have a chance to change their minds.

In fact, if I was for the Estate not only I'd dig up a show with full or mostly live singing (say from Bad or Victory tour) for release but I'd give it out to TV channels worldwide for very cheap so that they keep playing it over and over again, instead of HIStory tour or the 30th anniversary concert.

Having said that, I wish the same for these documentaries: that the Estate would offer it to TV channels for a very favourable price so that they keep playing them. They do not seem to want to cash in big from selling it on DVD/Blue-ray (based on the problems fans face trying to buy Bad 25), so why not distribute it then to TV channels? Along with the OTW doc, of course.

 

[analogue]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Throughout his touring career Michael sang live more than he lip synced

Destiny, Triumph, Victory and BAD Tour 1987 was 100% live
BAD Tour 1988 was about 90-95% live
Dangerous Tour was about 60-65% live

But ''thanks'' to the HIStory Tour, many people think that he lip synced all of his tours. I hate the fact that people think that Michael singing live during a concert was this rare thing, when it fact that wasn't the case at all.

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

How do you know what it would or would not change? If they always keep putting out those shows out to the big public (ie. TVs playing it over and over again) where he did not sing live then of course many people don't even have a chance to change their minds.

Seems to me more like wishful thinking than anything.
You say that if they saturate market with Michael's concerts that he sings live, you wouldn't have to read that kind comments ever again?

I have resigned and accepted the fact that there are people who love to bring MJ down no matter what. If it is not this, it will be that.

 

[innuendo141]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Funny enough I just remembered- in late 2001 when the 30th anniversary concert was aired on UK TV, I remember all my my friends commenting on how great they thought he was live, despite the fact that he wasnt singing most of the songs live. Maybe not everyone will actually notice?

Also, in retrospect the face that they theought he was amazing at what a lot of us would be considered our least favourite performances.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Seems to me more like wishful thinking than anything.
You say that if they saturate market with Michael's concerts that he sings live, you wouldn't have to read that kind comments ever again?

Yes, I am pretty sure when people are exposed to mainly lip synced performances by MJ all the time then they will have the impression he "always" lip synced. That's only natural. It's not out of some sort of deliberate malice, like you seem to think, simply that's what they were mostly exposed to. What else should they think when that's all they ever see on TV?

Can't we at least give it a try whether that perception would change if people had a chance to see more live performances and not just HIStory tour all over and over and over again? Why is HIStory tour that has already been on TV is so urgent (especially Munich 1997)? Instead of something that has never ever been on TV and exposed to a larger audience?

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Funny enough I just remembered- in late 2001 when the 30th anniversary concert was aired on UK TV, I remember all my my friends commenting on how great they thought he was live, despite the fact that he wasnt singing most of the songs live. Maybe not everyone will actually notice?

Also, in retrospect the face that they theought he was amazing at what a lot of us would be considered our least favourite performances.

I think the reason for that is some fans watch too much of his concerts and way too many times that their concentration is shifted from the show itself as whole to nitty gritty details:cheeky:

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Yes, I am pretty sure when people are exposed to mainly lip synced performances by MJ all the time then they will have the impression he "always" lip synced. That's only natural. What else should they think when that's all they ever see on TV?

Hmm, repeat, those comments are not from people who were exposed to lip synced performance, they searched those clips and found what they were looking for. There is a difference. And no, it is not natural as you put it.

People could not have been exposed to MJ's lip synced concerts because those weren't really shown on telly.

Heck, Elvis is no stranger to lip synced performances , do people care of it and does it make any difference to his overall career? No, because people know he can sing.
Whitney, same with her, but people simply don't care about those certain occasions because people know she can sing.
Same goes with Michael, most people knows he can sign but there are also lot of people who has seen his weakest performance and apply that performance over all of his performances. You don't change the opinion of those people.


Beyonce lip synced Obamas inauguration and what a hullabaloo it raised.Do people think she always lip sync? For some people yes, because thats what they want to believe, some people no, because they have heard her singing before.
Can you change those yes people's mind? I don't think so, and that was my point.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

People could not have been exposed to MJ's lip synced concerts because those weren't really shown on telly.

Actually, it was mentioned in this thread that HIStory tour has been shown a lot of times on TV in Europe.

 

[Bubs]

Actually, it was mentioned in this thread that HIStory tour has been shown a lot of times on TV in Europe.

Now we are getting nitty gritty details

Lets quote the whole post:

I don´t get this drama about history-tour release either. The history-tour-concert in Munic aired 2 -3-times a year from ca. 2009-2012 in Germany in TV. And after every airing Michaels History Album and all of his albums and the Dangerous-Tour-DVD were best-sellers on Amazon. Off course people would have loved to buy the History-Concert-DVD but couldn`t find it.

Germany is not the whole Europe. I have lived in Europe (in two countries) all my life and never seen History tour on telly in either country.
Secondly, I highly doubt that those people who got to see it in Germany and, wanted to buy History concert but couldn't find (as Annita mentions in her post) and didn't find it, are the ones commenting those concert on ytybe about lip syncing. They are whole different breed of fans or whatever they might be.

So, in closing the subject of History tour lip synching in my part, I propose that if the estate releases History tour concert, they cut Michael's head off(show him only neck down) from the shots so people concentrate something else.

 

[Lil]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

It's a big reason, but it's not ALL about the lip syncing tho. So many other reasons have been mentioned.. yet I haven't seen any good reasons as to why the HIStory tour should be released, besides people saying they love it - which is exactly what they throw back at those who'd prefer literally any of his other tours released, despite having very solid reasons for choosing those over HWT besides personal preference..:thinking: I'm giving up on this discussion lol.

I have resigned and accepted the fact that there are people who love to bring MJ down no matter what. If it is not this, it will be that.

This kinda bugs me.. Nobody is bringing Michael down, geez. We're all fans here & we all love him.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Throughout his touring career Michael sang live more than he lip synced

Destiny, Triumph, Victory and BAD Tour 1987 was 100% live
BAD Tour 1988 was about 90-95% live
Dangerous Tour was about 60-65% live

But ''thanks'' to the HIStory Tour, many people think that he lip synced all of his tours. I hate the fact that people think that Michael singing live during a concert was this rare thing, when it fact that wasn't the case at all.

You should be enjoying the show Michael decided to put out instead of worrying about what other people think and obsessing about lip syncing.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Funny enough I just remembered- in late 2001 when the 30th anniversary concert was aired on UK TV, I remember all my my friends commenting on how great they thought he was live, despite the fact that he wasnt singing most of the songs live. Maybe not everyone will actually notice?/

Not just that some people won't even notice, but majority of the people wouldn't even care about lip syncing because they will be mesmerized by Michael and his performances and the show itself. Only some hard-core fans, some "music" critics (read MJ haters) and small part of general public will be bothered by that.

Also, in retrospect the face that they theought he was amazing at what a lot of us would be considered our least favourite performances.

Absolutely. Because MJ's "worst" performances (although they are not bad in any way) are better and more entertaining than most of the other performers best performances. Hell, some people praised and enjoyed that poor hologram performance of MJ stand-in. And that was really really bad!

 

[HIStoric]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

BAD Tour 1988 was about 90-95% live

What song(s) did he lipsync on the Bad tour? It's been a few years since I last watched Wembley '88!

 

[analogue]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

What song(s) did he lipsync on the Bad tour? It's been a few years since I last watched Wembley '88!

Smooth Criminal, BAD, The Way You Make Me Feel and Man In The Mirror. But all of those songs did have live adlibs, and on some shows Smooth Criminal, BAD and The Way You Make Me Feel were sung 100% live.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Now we are getting nitty gritty details

Well, it's not "nitty gritty details" when you make the claim that HIStory tour was never really shown on TV. It was actully shown more than any other tour by MJ.
The notion that HIStory tour is somehow "hidden" that needs to be somehow brought to the attention of the general public is so false. It's been more available to the general public than any other tour by MJ. Wouldn't you like if the general public saw something else from MJ as well? Like the Bad tour or the Victory tour or the Triumph tour?

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Germany is not the whole Europe. I have lived in Europe (in two countries) all my life and never seen History tour on telly in either country.
Secondly, I highly doubt that those people who got to see it in Germany and, wanted to buy History concert but couldn't find (as Annita mentions in her post) and didn't find it, are the ones commenting those concert on ytybe about lip syncing. They are whole different breed of fans or whatever they might be.

Many countries have showed HIStory Tour concerts on TV. That is the reason why so many are available.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

yet I haven't seen any good reasons as to why the HIStory tour should be released, besides people saying they love it - which is exactly what they throw back at those who'd prefer literally any of his other tours released, despite having very solid reasons for choosing those over HWT besides personal preference.

You haven't seen any good reasons because you decided not to. There were plenty of reasons posted here. Also just by going to wikipedia page and by reading historic facts about HIStory tour you'll have enough reasons why it should be released. Also "personal preference" & "people saying they love it" are the very same reasons why some fans want other tours to be released as well. People love it because the show is great, not because they think it sucks. It's their "personal preference" because they enjoy it just like some other fans enjoy other tours as well. It's your loss that you can't or don't want to enjoy it. That doesn't take anything away from its greatness and historical significance.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Smooth Criminal, BAD, The Way You Make Me Feel and Man In The Mirror. But all of those songs did have live adlibs, and on some shows Smooth Criminal, BAD and The Way You Make Me Feel were sung 100% live.

Why'd he lip sync those songs?

 

[Bubs]

This kinda bugs me.. Nobody is bringing Michael down, geez. We're all fans here & we all love him.

Don't let it bug you because this is the actual quote in full:
I have resigned and accepted the fact that there are people who love to bring MJ down no matter what.

I had those people who were commenting MJ concerts in utube in my mind, and I wouldn't call them fans. They are Elvis fans in disguise winding up MJ fans

You must admit that when you read some comments here, that there are some fans that want only hear perfect MJ songs, perfect albums, perfect concerts.
I thought being a fan of someone, you show your support in bad times too? When I see MJ concert of MJ and it is not his best, last thing I would do go is slagging it off to any public forums/places.

Well, it's not "nitty gritty details" when you make the claim that HIStory tour was never really shown on TV. It was actully shown more than any other tour by MJ.
The notion that HIStory tour is somehow "hidden" that needs to be somehow brought to the attention of the general public is so false. It's been more available to the general public than any other tour by MJ. Wouldn't you like if the general public saw something else from MJ as well? Like the Bad tour or the Victory tour or the Triumph tour?

Now now Respect, don't be twisting my words to back up your stance. I said:
" I have lived in Europe (in two countries) all my life and never seen History tour on telly in either country"
It was never shown in 2 countries I live in and I did not claim anything else.

Of course I would loved to see anything of MJ and hopefully some day general public is going to see them. I don't know why you posted that question to me like I was deadly against releasing other tours?


The fact is that History tour conversation is more than beating the dead horse because we are getting way over our heads with the whole tour talk.
Branca said: I’d like to see a movie about the History album and tour,”,
I took it as 1 movie about the album and tour, not separate release of tour itself.

 

[analogue]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Why'd he lip sync those songs?

Smooth Criminal is already a hard song to sing, even without all the dancing. So my guess is that's why that was lip synced. As for BAD, The Way You Make Me Feel and Man In The Mirror, my guess for those was that those songs were towards the end of the show and MJ was tired by that point and needed a break

 

[InvincibleMJ]

The fact is that History tour conversation is more than beating the dead horse because we are getting way over our heads with the whole tour talk.
Branca said: I’d like to see a movie about the History album and tour,”,
I took it as 1 movie about the album and tour, not separate release of tour itself.

:yes: It's pointless because there was no mention of tour release recently anyway. Why get so worked up about something hypothetical?

 

[barbee0715]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

:yes: It's pointless because there was no mention of tour release recently anyway. Why get so worked up about something hypothetical?

Since Branca brought it up at the Bad 25 Q&A, it's been a worry. That's been a few years tho. Things change.

 

[HIStory]

Now now Respect, don't be twisting my words to back up your stance. I said:
" I have lived in Europe (in two countries) all my life and never seen History tour on telly in either country"
It was never shown in 2 countries I live in and I did not claim anything else.

I did not twist anything. Didn't you write this?

People could not have been exposed to MJ's lip synced concerts because those weren't really shown on telly.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...kson-Documentary/page17?p=4130999#post4130999

The fact is that History tour conversation is more than beating the dead horse because we are getting way over our heads with the whole tour talk.
Branca said: I’d like to see a movie about the History album and tour,”,
I took it as 1 movie about the album and tour, not separate release of tour itself.

I agree that Branca did not say it's going to be a tour release, except years ago as an idea, but this time the way I understood it it was a documentary that he talked about, a documentary about the album and the tour (not two seperate documentaries either). It would be similar to these others which also mention tours, not just the albums.

The whole tour thing started with someone mentioning he did not want a HIStory tour release and someone else getting defensive about it and then it spiralling into the usual conversation.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

So, in closing the subject of History tour lip synching in my part, I propose that if the estate releases History tour concert, they cut Michael's head off(show him only neck down) from the shots so people concentrate something else.

-----------------------

Gold pants and below would do me??


Out of intrest what other countries bar germany showed munich. Remember watching it on RTL on the old U.K sat system

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I did not twist anything. Didn't you write this?

How much do you want to be right and how far you are willing to go to prove you are right?

Now I'm getting pissed off because you took that quote from different post which was reply to be different content, leaving out something, and applied freely to suit your purpose:scratch:
Thats like Tygger did to Ivy's posts, and don't like it one bit.

On different note, can somebody post me a link to what they think is the best Michael's concert in utube, not History concert but any other will do.

 

[innuendo141]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

On different note, can somebody post me a link to what they think is the best Michael's concert in utube, not History concert but any other will do.

Just curious, but have you got a favourite of your own? Have you seen all the tours?

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Branca did mention the tour in recent interview:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...e-66/page135?p=4130763&viewfull=1#post4130763

The context suggests he just meant it as a part of the documentary, not necessarily a full HWT release.

How much do you want to be right and how far you are willing to go to prove you are right?

Am I not allowed to reply when you accuse me of twisting your words?

Now I'm getting pissed off because you took that quote from different post which was reply to be different content, leaving out something, and applied freely to suit your purpose:scratch:
Thats like Tygger did to Ivy's posts, and don't like it one bit.

I am sorry if you are pissed off, but what I said is very much in context and very much relevant to the argument we were discussing when you follow the whole chain of our conversation. The whole point was about whether the HIStory tour was on TV much and whether the general public was exposed to it and you said "People could not have been exposed to MJ's lip synced concerts because those weren't really shown on telly." - it's not a quote that I took from some entirely different conversation. You said it now, in the course of our conversation about this very matter.

But next. I think it is already established that the HIStory tour was on TV in Europe several times and not only in Germany.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

So, in closing the subject of History tour lip synching in my part, I propose that if the estate releases History tour concert, they cut Michael's head off(show him only neck down) from the shots so people concentrate something else.

-----------------------

Gold pants and below would do me??

they don't have to cut off his head for me to concentrate on "something else" :lol: I do it already. with his head still attached

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

All of them because I always find something awesome, but preferably his solo work just because his music got better with age.

Exactly! Another major reason why HIStory Tour is better than the tours he did with the brothers - the setlist.