HIStory Tour Discussion - Should it be released? [Merged]

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

In that poor VHS quality, I agree with Zakk - it should have never been released! It's way below MJ's standards.

now that's funny...remind me again, how much HD footage do we have of Michael?
I do no care, really. if it's watchable, I will gladly buy it. I would rather want a concert in the quality that Wembley has, than no concert at all!! if we hadn't gotten that concert, people would just be complaining about that, instead of the quality :smilerolleyes:

Sometimes I even ask myself how can a person be a fan of someone and then go and say something as filthy and disgusting as you did. I get that you don't like HIStory and that you don't want it to be released because you can't enjoy it because of your personal beliefs. That is fine by me. But you do not stop there. It's the way you say it, with so much hate and frustration in your words. You try to diminish it, badmouth Michael and his performances, trash it like it's some kind of poor second-rate show instead of what it is in history - one of the greatest shows on Earth that ever happened and one of the top grossing tours of the '90s! Really shameful.

I agree with you on this. and I ask myself that question A LOT when I read posts on here. it's one thing to be critical, but to say that something, ANYTHING, in his carer should not be acknowledged, is out of order. I don't care what it is and how bad people think it is. people can think it's bad, that's up to them, but come on. badmouthing Michael in that way is not okay, when you're a fan :no:

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Perhaps certain words used to describe the History tour have been a bit excessive. But it's straightforward honesty.

No one in this world is immune to criticism no matter how much I personally care for them. There are parts of Michael's career that I personally think are an embarrassment to his name, because they simply do not showcase the talent that I know he has. I won't sugarcoat anything simply because it's Michael Jackson, because he was not perfect. He deserves criticism just as much as any other artist.

If a beloved family member of mine did something reprehensible, I would call them out for it and be brutally honest. That doesn't mean I don't love or care for them; it's the truth. And I'm sure many of us would do the same thing.

If I'm willing to do that for a family member, my own blood, I will undoubtedly do that for Michael Jackson, someone who I'm simply a fan of. And the fact of the matter is, I simply cannot find any redeemable qualities within the History tour and don't think it should be released. Money does not matter. Attendance does not matter. The fact that it is Michael Jackson does not matter.

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

It sounds like the HIStory Tour 3D is still being planned. He said tour. I don't know what could be said about the tour in a documentary so he most likely means a concert release.

Where did you hear about History tour 3D being planned?
I thought that Branca meant similar release than Bad 25 and something like OTW?

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Has this been posted here?



He says tour. It looks like the HIStory Tour 3D project is still in works.

We discussed it in the previous page. Nowhere does he say it's going to be a HIStory Tour 3D. In the context it just sounds like he is talking about a documentary that would also include stuff from the tour - just like Bad25 or the OTW docu does contain tour stuff.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Again, allow me to point out that YOU want a History tour release because YOU like it. NOT because it would do well commercially. NOT because it would highlight why Michael is considered to be the greatest performer of all time. NO, because it's one of YOUR favorite tours.

I absolutely like it, yes. And I absolutely DO think that it would do well commercially and that it definitely would highlight why Michael is considered to be the greatest performer of all time. I'm confused, when did I say that I think it wouldn't or how did you came up with that conclusion? It is my favourite tour after The Dangerous Tour and I think it is just as good or better than rest of his tours, I think that it shows him as a great performer, I think it would do very well commercially if promoted well and released worldwide in cinemas in 3D as This Is It was released worldwide (not that well, but over $100 MIL worldwide gross). I think it was one of the greatest shows on Earth, very entertaining, theatrical, visually fantastic, even dramatic at some points. Michael as real entertainer (not just live singer) as he always described himself to be. I think people would enjoy it. And yes I don't give a damn about what "music" critics would have to say about his performances and lack of live singing because they are nobody. People would go to theaters to see that show.

As for DVD/blu-ray release I say that it would be commercially equivalent to any other MJ tour release. Just like Wembley VHS. Not worldwide top seller, but successful for a concert release.

You seem to have the wrong understanding of the definition of a fan. A true fan is someone who acknowledges both the high points and the low points of someone's career without sugarcoating it. I will gladly approach anyone on this earth and give them the opinion that Michael Jackson is the greatest artist of all time, and that he was most certainly the greatest performer, because I wholeheartedly believe that he was. But I will openly admit when I don't quite care for one of his songs, or when a certain performance was less-than-impressive. Why? Because that's what a true fan does. You, who seems so prepared to blindly accept anything that Michael did simply because it's Michael, are not a fan.

I agree with that. In Off The Wall thread I said that Off The Wall is my least favourite MJ album, I said that I think it is his weakest album, that it has 4 great songs and other songs are good album songs. But I never ever bashed it or used remotely offensive words as you did to describe it. Because it might not be my favourite, but I can't say it's bad. Because it isn't. Sales numbers of more than 35 million and influence on current artists prove that (just like HIStory numbers and facts speak for itself). Also I know other fans like it and want it to be re-released. So it wouldn't even cross my mind to try to stop its release or to bad mouth it, try to diminish its relevance and greatness, bash it and trash it. Just let it go. This one's not for you, but other projects will be.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I absolutely like it, yes. And I absolutely DO think that it would do well commercially and that it definitely would highlight why Michael is considered to be the greatest performer of all time. I'm confused, when did I say that I think it wouldn't or how did you came up with that conclusion? It is my favourite tour after The Dangerous Tour and I think it is just as good or better than rest of his tours, I think that it shows him as a great performer, I think it would do very well commercially if promoted well and released worldwide in cinemas in 3D as This Is It was released worldwide (not that well, but over $100 MIL worldwide gross). I think it was one of the greatest shows on Earth, very entertaining, theatrical, visually fantastic, even dramatic at some points. Michael as real entertainer (not just live singer) as he always described himself to be. I think people would enjoy it. And yes I don't give a damn about what "music" critics would have to say about his performances and lack of live singing because they are nobody. People would go to theaters to see that show.

Very realistic expectations there.

Oh and most people do care about if a concert is sung live or not, it's not just some mania of the critics. It's also the public who cares about that stuff nowadays. It's actually the first thing that people check when they watch a concert.

And I think it is sad that many people these days think MJ never sang live (largely "thanks" to the many HIStory tour footage on YT). I want the Estate rather to refute that myth with future releases, not further reinforce it and cement it.

I am also not sure why HIStory tour being released is so important. Concerts of HIStory tour have been played on TV many, many times and there's a lot of footage on YT. MJ's other tours, especially the early ones from the 80s are the ones which are underrepresented - especially in a form that is available to the general public.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

It is my favourite tour after The Dangerous Tour and I think it is just as good or better than rest of his tours, I think that it shows him as a great performer, I think it would do very well commercially if promoted well and released worldwide in cinemas in 3D as This Is It was released worldwide (not that well, but over $100 MIL worldwide gross). I think it was one of the greatest shows on Earth, very entertaining, theatrical, visually fantastic, even dramatic at some points. Michael as real entertainer (not just live singer) as he always described himself to be. I think people would enjoy it. And yes I don't give a damn about what "music" critics would have to say about his performances and lack of live singing because they are nobody. People would go to theaters to see that show.

woow, so well said!! I agree 100% about everything you said there about the HIStory Tour. personally, it's my favorite tour of them all! back in the day, when I attended the concerts and had them on VHS, I had no clue he was lip syncin, but when I found out later on, I didn't like the tour any less because of that. and i sure as hell am glad the tour happened, because I wouldn't have seen him those 3 times that I did on the HIStory Tour, if he hadn't done it. I had an opportunity for both Bad and Dagenrous Tours, but my mom wouldn't let me go, because she said I was too little...so HIStory tour has a special meaning to me....
and I LOVE all the theatrical stuff that HIStory tour has...I also do like the more "simple" ones like Bad Tour...heck I love it all, and Michael gave us it all. and I like the fact that I can choose whatever I'm in the mood for to watch

 

[Lil]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Uh oh, another HIStory tour discussion I think we should try to separate personal preference from what would be best for Michael's image.. Despite personal opinions/fond memories, if you compare his solo tours, HIStory was undeniably Michael at his worst. He is struggling through it and I really feel for him, which is why a big cinema release would make no sense imo and I personally cringe at the thought of it..

But anyways. as for the documentary -if it will be made- I hope that whoever is going to make it isn't scared to address the allegations. In this case I want them to talk about the controversies for once, because I see it as a chance to redeem Michael's name.
Haters gonna hate, but I'd love to see a documentary about this period in his life use decent, factual background information (not just opinions e.g. 'I never saw anything') not only to provide context and add meaning to the music, but hopefully to change the minds of those who are willing to listen while doing so. It's an important part of his legacy and I want his side of the story - the truth!- to be well represented for once, he deserves it so much.

 

[Annita]

I absolutely like it, yes. And I absolutely DO think that it would do well commercially and that it definitely would highlight why Michael is considered to be the greatest performer of all time. I'm confused, when did I say that I think it wouldn't or how did you came up with that conclusion? It is my favourite tour after The Dangerous Tour and I think it is just as good or better than rest of his tours, I think that it shows him as a great performer, I think it would do very well commercially if promoted well and released worldwide in cinemas in 3D as This Is It was released worldwide (not that well, but over $100 MIL worldwide gross). I think it was one of the greatest shows on Earth, very entertaining, theatrical, visually fantastic, even dramatic at some points. Michael as real entertainer (not just live singer) as he always described himself to be. I think people would enjoy it. And yes I don't give a damn about what "music" critics would have to say about his performances and lack of live singing because they are nobody. People would go to theaters to see that show.

As for DVD/blu-ray release I say that it would be commercially equivalent to any other MJ tour release. Just like Wembley VHS. Not worldwide top seller, but successful for a concert release..

I don´t get this drama about history-tour release either. The history-tour-concert in Munic aired 2 -3-times a year from ca. 2009-2012 in Germany in TV. And after every airing Michaels History Album and all of his albums and the Dangerous-Tour-DVD were best-sellers on Amazon. Off course people would have loved to buy the History-Concert-DVD but couldn`t find it.

 

[HIStory]

I don´t get this drama about history-tour release either. The history-tour-concert in Munic aired 2 -3-times a year from ca. 2009-2012 in Germany in TV. And after every airing Michaels History Album and all of his albums and the Dangerous-Tour-DVD were best-sellers on Amazon. Off course people would have loved to buy the History-Concert-DVD but couldn`t find it.

Obviously for Germans a show in Germany means a lot. It's like Queen's Hungarian Rhapsody charted the highest in Hungary. And you said it: they played it on TV over and over again. So wouldn't you want if the public in Germany would see something else from MJ as well? Not just HIStory tour over and over again? Like I said, it's his other tours that are underrepresented and underexposed to the general public, not HIStory tour. Maybe if they discovered there are actually better performances by MJ they would be even more impressed with him.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I'm always am bemused by the Euro fan obsession with HIStory. Like do they not know or care about Triumph or Destiny or Victory? This tours show MJ at his best.

I think it's that the HIStory tour took place largely in Europe and it's his latest tour that most people still might have memories of and might bring back personal memories to them. I love the fact that Europe has not written off MJ after Thriller or Bad but had an open mind about his later albums as well (unlike many in the US, in my opinion). That is good. At the same time, I feel like some (not here necessarily) European fans are just as closed-minded about and uninterested in his early stuff (OTW, Destiny, Triumph etc.) as some US fans are closed-minded about and uninterested in later stuff. They complain about the US ignoring HIStory but at the same breath they ignore something like Destiny/Triumph, even OTW just the same.

It's actually an interesting topic on its own right IMO.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

We discussed it in the previous page. Nowhere does he say it's going to be a HIStory Tour 3D. In the context it just sounds like he is talking about a documentary that would also include stuff from the tour - just like Bad25 or the OTW docu does contain tour stuff.

It doesn't but but few years ago he said that he would like to see the Munich concert released in 3D.

 

[analogue]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

It doesn't but but few years ago he said that he would like to see the Munich concert released in 3D.

Hopefully he came to his senses and released what a bad idea that was

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I absolutely like it, yes. And I absolutely DO think that it would do well commercially and that it definitely would highlight why Michael is considered to be the greatest performer of all time.

I disagree. Lip-syncing almost all the songs wouldn't show him as the greatest performer of all time. I would still buy it but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody if they wanted to see a Michael Jackson concert.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Top 10 Michael Jackson Moments by WatchMojo.com. Lots of trash, but also lots of iconic moments. They are usually very realistic and positive towards MJ. It's US site (I think). MJ didn't tour with HIStory in US (except for Hawaii). HIStory got honorable mention. Dangerous, Bad, Victory, Triumph, Destiny Tours didn't (and for majority of them he did tour in the US). Agree with it or not, HIStory Tour was iconic and very important part of Michael's history and music history in general and it deserves to be released. Just like any other tour or concert.

At 9:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl06vg3FeLc

 

[OnirMJ]

I don´t get this drama about history-tour release either. The history-tour-concert in Munic aired 2 -3-times a year from ca. 2009-2012 in Germany in TV. And after every airing Michaels History Album and all of his albums and the Dangerous-Tour-DVD were best-sellers on Amazon. Off course people would have loved to buy the History-Concert-DVD but couldn`t find it.

Exactly. HIStory deserves the same treatment as every other tour. One huge advantage for HIStory Tour is that the Estate have it in releasable quality. My opinion is that every tour needs to be released and celebrated as they are all part of Michael's history and part of worlds history.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

If they released it on Blu-Ray it could be the first Michael Jackson concert many people would see. It wouldn't give a good impression of him as a live performer. It bothers me.

 

[Doo Doo Head]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I'm all for HIStory on home release, but it shouldn't be a priority. It is admittedly his weakest tour. With the focus now on the early 80's, they should release Destiny, Triumph, Victory, 1st leg Bad, Dangerous, and then HIStory on home release, in that order.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Very realistic expectations there.

Why not? I think $100 MIL worldwide is realistic. Today Asia market alone is huge and they are well known for their love for MJ.

Uh oh, another HIStory tour discussion I think we should try to separate personal preference from what would be best for Michael's image..

And what if I think that that is very good and positive for Michael's image?

I disagree. Lip-syncing almost all the songs wouldn't show him as the greatest performer of all time.

That's why I wrote greatest performer and great performances and not greatest live singer of all time. I know he's not Adele. For example I would never go to her concert because I'm not interested in watching her standing on the stage and listening her singing, no matter how good does she sing. I found that boring, uninteresting. I'm interested in watching a show and being entertained. Sure if he sung live it would be better but that was not essential in his shows or his performances. Almost all his performances outside of the tours (even his most famous and critically acclaimed like Motown 25, Superbowl, MTV 1995, Grammys 1988 were not sung live!). If Adele lip synched at one of her concerts that would be a problem because she doesn't have anything else to offer to her audience except for her singing. Michael was live performer, entertainer, not just live singer. Especially later in his career. He knew that. He did it intentionally. I'm not ashamed of admitting that. No one should be.

Again I'm all for releasing earlier tours also. Including Jackson 5 Tours by Motown. I'm also for releasing 30th anniversary celebration concert.

 

[Michaels Lover]

I'm always am bemused by the Euro fan obsession with HIStory. Like do they not know or care about Triumph or Destiny or Victory? These tours show MJ at his best.

did anyone say that Triumph, Destiny and Victory tours are not important? very very rarely when fans are discussing his concerts like this, does anyone mention Jackson 5. are those tours not as important as all the others? to me, his whole career is important, and as I said earlier, NOTHING. absolutely NOTHING should NOT be acknowledged. I want EVERYTHING from his whole career. and I have specifically wanted a Jackson 5 concert from one of their early tours my whole life...same with Victory...and when it leaked last year, in HQ, it was a dream come true for me. I was literally crying happy tears, because finally I could watch a concert from a tour I've been wanting to see for over 20 years. so just because HIStory is my favorite tour, doesn't mean that I don't care about the rest of his career. wtf?? :huh:
actually, my favorite ERA is Jackson 5. but that's another story
so don't you dare ****ing tell me that I don't know or care about something in his career. you don't know shit about me, and should not accuse people like this when you don't even know anything about them and how they feel about Michael and how they view his career....

Exactly. HIStory deserves the same treatment as every other tour. One huge advantage for HIStory Tour is that the Estate have it in releasable quality. My opinion is that every tour needs to be released and celebrated as they are all part of Michael's history and part of worlds history.

yes!! this!! EVERY tour deserves the same treatment, because his whole career, and every tour is important to his legacy

Sure if he sung live it would be better but that was not essential in his shows or his performances. Almost all his performances outside of the tours (even his most famous and critically acclaimed like Motown 25, Superbowl, MTV 1995, Grammys 1988 were not sung live!)

Yeah, but I guess because it's not HIStory tour that's ok and doesn't need to be criticized

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

That's why I wrote greatest performer and great performances and not greatest live singer of all time. I know he's not Adele. For example I would never go to her concert because I'm not interested in watching her standing on the stage and listening her singing, no matter how good does she sing. I found that boring, uninteresting. I'm interested in watching a show and being entertained. Sure if he sung live it would be better but that was not essential in his shows or his performances. Almost all his performances outside of the tours (even his most famous and critically acclaimed like Motown 25, Superbowl, MTV 1995, Grammys 1988 were not sung live!). If Adele lip synched at one of her concerts that would be a problem because she doesn't have anything else to offer to her audience except for her singing. Michael was live performer, entertainer, not just live singer. Especially later in his career. He knew that. He did it intentionally. I'm not ashamed of admitting that. No one should be.

Again I'm all for releasing earlier tours also. Including Jackson 5 Tours by Motown. I'm also for releasing 30th anniversary celebration concert.

I kind of agree with some things you wrote and kind of disagree other things. IMO Michael was a great live singer and I wish more people knew that because he's not recognized enough for his amazing voice and great vocal performances. If I had a chance to choose which tour would be on the big screens around the world, I would go with Bad or Dangerous so the whole world could see how great of a singer he was as well as a good performer. Singing while dancing and running on stage all through the show. And I think MJ is much better vocalist than Adele. Dancing or not. Many of those singers aren't that great live anyway.

I agree that MJ lipsyincing on HIStory is nothing like Adele or Elton John doing it because other than hearing these people sing on stage, they have nothing else to offer. I also think that MJ used it because he had good reasons to and not because he was lazy as some people try to imply. For me HIStory tour is still among the top 5 tours in history :lol:. If only I could, I would give a lot to be able to go back in time and see this tour live.

But you know what? Even if I think HIStory is great, which I do - I'm afraid that many people don't care if MJ had good reasons or not and they also don't care if he had much more to offer visually. Don't forget we're talking about a film experience for audience of mostly non hardcore fans. It's much less exciting/stimulating than an actual live show. So in any way I would still go Bad or Dagnerous before I go with HIStory tour. Controversy aside, I think Michael's vocal perforomance on This Is It was amazing too. I'm glad people were able to witness his great talent on so many levels and aspects.

Anyway we don't even know if there's going to be such project. The only time it was mentioned was 3 years ago and nothing since.

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

yes!! this!! EVERY tour deserves the same treatment, because his whole career, and every tour is important to his legacy

Well, same treatment would be if they made Victory, Triumph, Destiny tour footage just as available as HIStory tour footage is. Like said, HIStory tour has been on TV over and over again. The other tours were not.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Well, same treatment would be if they made Victory, Triumph, Destiny tour footage just as available as HIStory tour footage is. Like said, HIStory tour has been on TV over and over again. The other tours were not.

yeah, I want as much footage from all the other tours as we have from HIStory

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

yeah, I want as much footage from all the other tours as we have from HIStory

I want them all to be OFFICIALLY released so that they are available for all to watch. I think they are all major and very important part of history and Michael's life.

Also it's not HIStory's fault that it's apparently the only tour which Estate have in releasable quality.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

I want them all to be OFFICIALLY released so that they are available for all to watch. I think they are all major and very important part of history and Michael's life.

Also it's not HIStory's fault that it's apparently the only tour which Estate have in releasable quality.

when you say "releasable quality", what do you mean? Bucharest was released already years ago...is that not releasable quality? and what about the other bootleg Dangerous concerts we have, is that not releasable quality? and I'm sure there's others...Bad tour too

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

when you say "releasable quality", what do you mean? Bucharest was released already years ago...is that not releasable quality? and what about the other bootleg Dangerous concerts we have, is that not releasable quality? and I'm sure there's others...Bad tour too

I just used the word the Estate used in their statement (announcement of Bad 25 project) to describe the concerts they have in the vaults from the Bad Tour. They said that a concert from the first leg of the tour from Japan (probably Yokohama) is the only concert they have that is releasable. Of course they have Bucharest 1992 & Munchen 1997. I think by releasable they mean concert that can be publicly released. Obviously they didn't mean video quality - because Wembley VHS proved that. I think releasable means concert for which they have "watchable" (which is very subjective term) video quality and audio multitracks.

 

[analogue]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

Like said, HIStory tour has been on TV over and over again. The other tours were not.

Which is a reason why his other tours need to be shown. To show people that Michael wasn't a lip sync artist who couldn't sing live.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

That's why I wrote greatest performer and great performances and not greatest live singer of all time. I know he's not Adele. For example I would never go to her concert because I'm not interested in watching her standing on the stage and listening her singing, no matter how good does she sing. I found that boring, uninteresting. I'm interested in watching a show and being entertained. Sure if he sung live it would be better but that was not essential in his shows or his performances. Almost all his performances outside of the tours (even his most famous and critically acclaimed like Motown 25, Superbowl, MTV 1995, Grammys 1988 were not sung live!). If Adele lip synched at one of her concerts that would be a problem because she doesn't have anything else to offer to her audience except for her singing. Michael was live performer, entertainer, not just live singer. Especially later in his career. He knew that. He did it intentionally. I'm not ashamed of admitting that. No one should be.

The one-off performances like Grammys 1988 and MTV 1995 are different. I don't see lip-syncing in those as bad as doing it in concert. HIStory Tour can be really boring to watch because of the lip-syncing. I hope Estate releases some other concert on Blu-Ray before HIStory Tour.

 

[analogue]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

The one-off performances like Grammys 1988.

But look at how much better that performance got when the live vocals came in on Man In The Mirror. It was already a great performance to begin with, but those live vocals took it to the next level

Grammy's 1988 was one of MJ's best vocal performances of all time

 

[HIStory]

Re: A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

But look at how much better that performance got when the live vocals came in on Man In The Mirror. It was already a great performance to begin with, but those live vocals took it to the next level

Which is why I say if you are going to include HIStory tour footage in the documentary then I hope it will be things like Earth Song in Brunei.