HIStory Tour Discussion - Should it be released? [Merged]

Should HIStory Tour be offically released?

  • Yes, in cinema

    Votes: 13 18.3%
  • Yes, in DVD

    Votes: 44 62.0%
  • Yes, in DVD and cinema

    Votes: 7 9.9%
  • No

    Votes: 7 9.9%

  • Total voters
    71
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I'll freely admit that "Billie Jean" and the slick robot move in "Stranger in Moscow" were both very impressive. But for me everything else was extremely calculated and made Michael look like he didn't even want to be there.

To be honest, as much as I love the whole 'I love to tour' clip, when I saw that for the first time, I just went 'Ah, now it becomes clear'. The History tour suddenly made sense to me.

The annoying thing about this whole discussion is that out of the whole of MJ's otherwise stellar career, only three things I thought were less than wonderful.

The History tour
Some of Invincible and single/video releases
And on a much lesser level the HIStory CD cover!

From a 40 year career, that's not too shabby!
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I agree. Technically the dancing was excellent, but the contagious, raw energy that Michael had on all the tours prior to this was often missing imo.

Maybe he was 39.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Maybe he was 39.

The HIStory Tour wasn't that long after the Dangerous Tour. You make it sound like he became an old man in just 2 years
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Maybe he was 39.
My comment did not have to do with his capabilities, but simply that he seemed less into it than he did on previous tours. I was talking about motivation, not diminishing skills. So I don't see what his age has to do with it, unless you mean that he became less interested in performing as he grew older.
 
Galactus123;4083822 said:
I think it could damage Michael's legacy because many non-fans could see it as their first full Michael Jackson concert. They might think like: "I want finally see what all the fuss was about and watch a Michael Jackson concert." I don't want that they see Michael lip-syncing the whole show.

Your post invoked an image of the BBMA spectacle with the ridiculous VV. Despite that nonsense, Michael’s legacy remained intact because it was solidified by Michael.

respect77;4083828 said:
I think people should cut the ad hominem attacks.

The only ad hominem attack I read was yours when you characterized a suggestion by a poster as delusional.

The comments being made are not definitively selfless. Comments about personal embarrassment, how one fears/predicts negative press, how one fears/predicts negative reactions to History tour footage by others and how that negative reaction will effect them, how Michael’s image will be most positive when he is performing (and/or any other activity) in the manner the poster appreciates, etc. are all comments about one's self. If there are comments about how the suggestion of History tour footage in the theater may affect one's self then, those comments can be characterized correctly as selfish.

Adding: while Michael's age may have been a factor during the History tour, the tour promoted the History album which was the result of one of the most horrific time periods of Michael's life. I believe one of Michael's many friends once said that Michael dreaded performing during the History tour because he was unsure if the audience believed he was capable of what he was accused of.
 
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Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Tygger, it's been explained countless of times, not just by me, but by everyone else who is against this release, why we think this is potentially embarassing to Michael. If you and Onir want to turn worrying about that into "selfishness" go ahead, but it will not affect my personal life if Michael is gonna get dragged in the media for it. I did not talk about how it will affect me, I talked about how it will affect Michael. Yes, it won't destroy his whole legacy because his legacy is stronger than that, but it's unnecessary to subject him to that when they do not have to and when they also have the opportunity to put an awesome performance on the big screen by him. If worrying for his image is "selfishness" then so be it.

We can say from our point of view that it's you and Onir are who are selfish because all you care about is you wanting to watch Michael in the cinema on the big screen and you do not care about the bigger picture about whether it's his best representation in a high-profile project like this. See how that works? Actually not even most of HIStory tour's proponents dare to say that it was Michael's best show. They acknowledge its shortcomings compared to ALL of his other tours. We simply ask, why then do you want exactly this tour (about which even you know it is not his best) to be made MJ's main representation as a performing artist in front of the general public? Why do you want a show where he does not sing (and that is not a personal taste, that is a fact) be his main representation as a live performer when there are shows by which he could be shown in his full glory, as the awsome LIVE singer-dancer that he was? Why? Is this some sort of defensiveness about this project because it gets a lot of criticism even from fans (a similar phenomenon as with the Invincible album) or something else?

The only answers I have seen to that question so far were:

- Because there is a tank/rocket on stage.
- Because it's HD and it can be turned into 3D.
- Because whatever the Estate decides to do I am going to support that.
- HIStory tour is a part of Michael's history and should not be hidden.

1) Tank/rocket on stage.

I wonder if fans who think that's some super imperssive spectacle ever watch other shows outside of Michael's. There are a lot more spectacular stages by other artists and that tank and rocket is not gonna impress anyone in 2015.

2) Because it's HD and it can be turned into 3D.

That actually seems to me to be the main reason why some fans want exactly this show to represent Michael in the cinemas. Whether someone considers this more important than the artistic merit of a show is personal taste, but I'm sure the Estate could put a little effort into trying to find shows which are better representations of Michael's many talents AND also have great quality. I'm sure with a little effort sooner or later such shows will be found because there is information about some very good shows being shot on film.

And I think now when we have so many 3D films it doesn't really impress in itself. (Also films which were turned into 3D in the hindsight never look as good as the films which were shot with 3D intent in the first place.)

3) Because whatever the Estate decides to do I am going to support that.

That's an odd stance (especially from someone who otherwise seems to be pretty critical of the Estate). Not even Michael was above criticism, let alone his Estate. Just because they decide to do a project it does not mean it's definietly a great idea.

4) HIStory tour is a part of Michael's history and should not be hidden.

We agree that it's a part of his history and no one is talking about "hiding it". In fact, many expressed the view that they do not mind it to be released on DVD/Blue-ray. But when a concert is put on the big screen it's generally one of that artist's best, not most controversial, most criticizable, shows. And HIStory tour is definitely not Michael's best - even proponents of this project more or less acknowledge that. That we want a better show to represent him on the big screen does not mean that we want to earse HIStory tour from his legacy (nor that we are being selfish). It's a part of his history, yes, but it was his worst tour, not his best.
 
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Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Maybe that isn't an excuse whatsoever.

It's not an excuse. It is a fact. He was 39. And he did a great show and great world tour. One of the best ever.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

My comment did not have to do with his capabilities, but simply that he seemed less into it than he did on previous tours. I was talking about motivation, not diminishing skills. So I don't see what his age has to do with it, unless you mean that he became less interested in performing as he grew older.

You said "the contagious, raw energy that Michael had on all the tours prior". And that has a lot to do with his age. Of course that he had more energy when he was 26, 29 or even 34. It's stupid to say that he didn't. It's completely normal and understandable. No one said anything about his capabilities or skills.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

when there are shows by which he could be shown in his full glory

Where? Do you have them? They clearly said that they don't have them. Only shows they have are Yokohama, Bucharest and Munchen (or some other European date, my guess is that it will be Munchen). And only Munchen can be shown in theatres and in 3D. I though that was clear by now.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Where? Do you have them? They clearly said that they don't have them. Only shows they have are Yokohama, Bucharest and Munchen (or some other European date, my guess is that it will be Munchen). And only Munchen can be shown in theatres and in 3D. I though that was clear by now.

Then they should put more effort into finding other shows rather than putting effort and money into turning a show like Munich into 3D, that is not even new to the general public, let alone fans. If they are going to release a show to the cinemas that has already been shown on TV and that is already on YouTube then they might as well choose Yokohama or Bucharest'92. Both much better shows. HIStory tour Munich is the worst possible choice even from that pool of 3 possiblities.
 
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Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

You said "the contagious, raw energy that Michael had on all the tours prior". And that has a lot to do with his age. Of course that he had more energy when he was 26, 29 or even 34. It's stupid to say that he didn't. It's completely normal and understandable. No one said anything about his capabilities or skills.

See? You are making excuses. He was this old, that old. He had throat problems. He had this, he had that. Why don't they rather put a show in the cinemas that does not need any footnotes and excuses and where he could give his 100%?
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

See? You are making excuses. He was this old, that old. He had throat problems. He had this, he had that. Why don't they rather put a show in the cinemas that does not need any footnotes and excuses and where he could give his 100%?

This. This is the bottom line. I can't FOR THE LIFE OF ME see how anyone could put a HIStory tour ahead of any other tour for a cinema release. I love the HIStory tour but, good god...... No.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

See? You are making excuses. He was this old, that old. He had throat problems. He had this, he had that. Why don't they rather put a show in the cinemas that does not need any footnotes and excuses and where he could give his 100%?

I'm not making excuses. I'm stating facts. He was 5 years older from the previous tour. Fact. Not excuse. He gave the public an awesome show. I never once said anything about "throat problems", although he had them during some parts of the tour. He lip synced, not because of the throat problems, but because HE WANTED TO. He did it before and after that tour. It was his show, his decision.

I already answered why not. And it's ridiculous to even mention that topic again. In an official statement they said that they don't have any other show in releasable quality. That's why we got crappy cartoon-like poor quality VHS Wembley transfered to DVD. That IS embarrassing!

Like I said, Bad and Dangerous may have been better tours, but not necessarily more entertaining (I'm not talking about fu*king tank or the rocket - that is not entertainment - that is POWER! But you and some others have been so blinded by your obsession with lip synching that it is stopping you from seeing the other entertaining moments - basically the whole show - pure entertainment). That obsession can be seen in perfect example where some of you said that the brilliant Stranger In Moscow performance is "embarrassing". You need to understand that other people won't watch the show through your eyes and they will watch it with an open mind, without preconcieved thoughts about it.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I can't. I just can't anymore.... It's like debating with a wall.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?


Onir, seriously. Stop.

HE IS NOT JAMES BROWN. HE IS MICHAEL JACKSON. HE DID IT HIS WAY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d17ggav1Lto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmwve14BKQI

Also READ my posts before you start obsessing with lip synching. I said he had less energy ("the contagious, raw energy that Michael had on all the tours prior") because he was 39. NOT that he lip synched because he was 39.

I also said that with 39 and with less energy he still gave that public an awesome show and brilliant performances. He gave them all that he could, he gave them himself in full. Again in the way that HE THOUGHT that would be the BEST for HIS SHOW. Not yours.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I can't. I just can't anymore.... It's like debating with a wall.

I can say the same. Even worse. It's like debating with a hateful wall with preconceived thoughts about something and with an obscene obsession with something that is not that important when you watch the show as a whole, and not just as a vocal performance.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I'm not making excuses. I'm stating facts. He was 5 years older from the previous tour. Fact. Not excuse.

When someone said that not only his singing is an issue on HIStory tour but also his energy is lacking compared to other tours you brought up his age. That is a footnote that you are making in an attempt of explaining why it isn't that great of a show as his previous ones. But why don't we rather want them to release something where no such footnotes and excuses about age or whatever are needed? I did not say you personally said something about his throat, but that is also a general excuse among fans about why he lip-synced. Fans making excuses about that means they know deep down that it's not right. It needs to be explained and excused. That's not good when you are putting a show out there that could become his main representation as a concert artist in the eyes of the general public.

And just because it was MJ's decision it does not mean it is above criticism. And while lip-syncing through HIStory tour was his decision, putting that performance into the cinemas on the big screen as his main representation as a concert artist is NOT Michael's decision. (In fact, during his lifetime, in 2005 he released Bucharest 1992 on DVD, and not anything from HIStory tour, which was his more current tour at the time.)

In an official statement they said that they don't have any other show in releasable quality. That's why we got crappy cartoon-like poor quality VHS Wembley transfered to DVD. That IS embarrassing!

Then they should be more diligent in finding better shows. Putting Munich in the cinemas IMO is lazy. 3D in itself does not impress anyone anymore when we have tons of 3D movies, including concert movies. Put it on DVD/Blue ray for those who want it, but do not make it Michael's main representation as a touring artist on a big screen.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

If we're gonna bring up Michael's age look at This Is It. Apparently for those he wanted to sing live as much as possible, because Michael knew that he would get huge backlash if he lip synced too much. Of course none of us will ever know how This Is It would have turned out, but I can believe that Michael would have sung live more than what he did on the HIStory Tour. Michael was not stupid, and he knew that in 2009 (And still to this day) lip syncing was looked down on. Way more than what it was in the 90's
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I can say the same. Even worse. It's like debating with a hateful wall with preconceived thoughts about something and with an obscene obsession with something that is not that important when you watch the show as a whole, and not just as a vocal performance.

OK, I'm done. I don't know what your argument is anymore. Mine is that it shouldn't be released in cinemas. Yours seems to be that the HIStory tour was amazing. You aren't getting anyone's points as usual.

The only point worth making is that of the people who voted in this forum (for whom it was designed for, obviously, so the poll is not in fact ridiculous, just because you disagree with it!) the majority disagree with you.

poll.png


Have a good day Onir.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I can say the same. Even worse. It's like debating with a hateful wall with preconceived thoughts about something and with an obscene obsession with something that is not that important when you watch the show as a whole, and not just as a vocal performance.

Correction: It's not important to you. For those of us who think of Michael as an artist and as also a singer, not just an entertainer, it IS important that when he is put on the big screen that he is represented with ALL of his talents, not just a small portion of it.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

OK, I'm done. I don't know what your argument is anymore. Mine is that it shouldn't be released in cinemas. Yours seems to be that the HIStory tour was amazing. You aren't getting anyone's points as usual.

The only point worth making is that of the people who voted in this forum (for whom it was designed for, obviously, so the poll is not in fact ridiculous, just because you disagree with it!) the majority disagree with you.

poll.png


Have a good day Onir.

Of course, they are going to say the poll is "ridiculous" because their opinion did not come out as the majority opinion and yes, it is only for this forum which does not represent the whole fandom. However, I can say that whenever the possibility of this release came up in a FB group I also visit sometimes the reactions were about the same. In fact, people were more so against it than here. That's still not the whole fandom, but it at least shows that it is not a very popular idea even within the fandom. All the other tours are more universally loved than HIStory tour and many fans think it is a bad idea. At the end of the day no matter what we think or say, the Estate will make its own decision, but hopefully they will be aware of these reactions.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I can say the same. Even worse. It's like debating with a hateful wall with preconceived thoughts about something and with an obscene obsession with something that is not that important when you watch the show as a whole, and not just as a vocal performance.

You'll just accept anything that has Michael Jackson in it, won't you? The estate could release footage of Michael scratching his ass to cinemas, and you'd still say ''He choose to scratch his ass, and it's part of history. You can't change history''
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Where? Do you have them? They clearly said that they don't have them. Only shows they have are Yokohama, Bucharest and Munchen (or some other European date, my guess is that it will be Munchen). And only Munchen can be shown in theatres and in 3D. I though that was clear by now.

They have more shows than you mentioned. They should have most of the solo tour concerts Michael ever did if not all. Some might be lost but they must have most of them. Of course concerts that exist only on tape can't really be released in cinemas but I'm just saying that they have more than you think. It is possible that they have some Bad Tour concerts on film because they haven't mentioned anything about them. They only talked about tapes.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Are you old at 39? :scratch:
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Are you old at 39? :scratch:

No. He proved that by giving an amazing show, pure entertainment for 2 hours for 82 nights. But it is crazy to expect him to do things he did when he was 26 or 29. Just look at professional athletes (football players play until the age of 35-36, only few players at highest level play after that age). Are they old after that? No. But they retire because they can't play like they did when they were 25. That is a fact.

Michael Jackson is not Mariah Carey. Stop trying to make him into one. He wasn't and he will never be that. He is Michael Jackson. And HIStory was HIS show, not Mariah Carey, not Adele or Whitney, not Pavarotti. And not Prince, James Brown or Smokey Robinson. Stop trying to make him something that he isn't. And stop trying to change or hide history (HIStory).
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

You'll just accept anything that has Michael Jackson in it, won't you? The estate could release footage of Michael scratching his ass to cinemas, and you'd still say ''He choose to scratch his ass, and it's part of history. You can't change history''

Hahaha. Is it that hard to accept that some people don't hate HIStory as much as you do? I LOVE it. Many people who are not obsessed with lip syncing love it. I said, just try to watch it without that obsession covering your eyes and ears. Just try to see it like I and many other people see it. Then, it won't be that hard to comprehend.
 
Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Hahaha. Is it that hard to accept that some people don't hate HIStory as much as you do? I LOVE it. Many people who are not obsessed with lip syncing love it. I said, just try to watch it without that obsession covering your eyes and ears. Just try to see it like I and many other people see it. Then, it won't be that hard to comprehend.

Is it hard to accept that some people may not love the HIStory Tour as much as you do?

And for the record, I don't hate HIStory Tour. I just don't want it released to cinemas
 
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