HIStory Tour Discussion - Should it be released? [Merged]

[HIStory]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Please understand that the "countless times" it has been repeated in an effort to "explain" your view, my view (and others) have not changed. When will it be understood that others holding an opposite view is acceptable? That is the wall that has yet to be scaled.

Look, YOU demanded me to address the point you made:

What I find interesting is someone who supports the humanization of Michael yet, made no comment when I stated one of the reasons his History tour performances may have been affected was his dread of performing in front of an audience who he did not trust to view him as a man who was not capable of what he was accused of.

Initially I did not even reply to that part of your post, I only did later, because you demanded it in the above quoted post! And now you complain that I stated my point once again and act like I did so to somehow change your view. Gosh. I know well that your view will not be changed. But you specifically asked me to address a point you made about Michael having issues on HIStory tour. I did.

No, that does not embrace what I see as Michael's humanity. It is an embarrassment of what some may consider Michael's human failing.

I never claimed that to me this is an excercise of "embracing Michael's humanity". That's your approach of this issue, not mine. My approach is that I think if he is going to be represented in the cinemas as a live performer then all of his talents should be showcased and represented - including his live singing. I do not make it about anything else than about the quality of the performance.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Look, YOU demanded me to address the point you made:

????

Saying I find your response interesting is NOT a demand for you to respond nor a request for a response. It is simply a comment.

I never claimed that to me this is an excercise of "embracing Michael's humanity". That's your approach of this issue, not mine.

Indeed. That is the beauty of a different point of view.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

????

Saying I find your response interesting is NOT a demand for you to respond nor a request for a response. It is simply a comment.

:hysterical:

So if I do not respond you will say I have no answer to your points and if I respond then you will say that I repeat my point because I cannot accept that there are different opinins. Okay then.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Respect77, there was no demand for your response. You made the decision to respond and your predictions of my actions are erroneous and unnecessary.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Respect77, there was no demand for your response. You made the decision to respond and your predictions of my actions are erroneous and unnecessary.

At the end of the day you shouldn't lip sync a full tour. That's the argument here.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

At the end of the day you shouldn't lip sync a full tour. That's the argument here.

Yes and it should not have a theatrical release as has been said to me and others "countless times." While that effort has been appreciated, I will maintain my opposite view and I will not derail the thread by expressing that opposite view anymore than I already have.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Yes and it should not have a theatrical release as has been said to me and others "countless times." While that effort has been appreciated, I will maintain my opposite view and I will not derail the thread by expressing that opposite view anymore than I already have.

Yes, in summary, we're not going to change anyone's mind it seems and fair enough.

In the end it's highly unlikely this is ever going to happen anyway so the argument is probably over.

Everyone shake hands it's been a (largely) clean fight.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

How about that opening with the toaster! So many artists have copied that from him. Like seriously

How in the world could I forget that?!

I don't think there's a better representation of Michael Jackson's appeal as a live entertainer than that video - him popping up from beneath the stage, maintaining a statue-like position for minutes on end and having the audience cheer the entire time. That's talent right there.

Not "in a way;" it is Estate/Sony's full responsibility and Michael has no accountability. None.

Any issues critics and fans have with the performance itself (of which I guarantee there will be many) are entirely Michael's fault, considering the fact that the History tour was a product of his imagination - not Branca's or McClain's. The estate/Sony are responsible for piecing the film together and promoting it properly; the footage itself was Michael's doing.

If an unreleased Stanley Kubrick film (shot during his lifetime) was suddenly released tomorrow, who's fault would it be if it was terrible? Much more Kubrick's than the producers - you can't take awful footage and turn it into a masterpiece.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

AlwaysThere, ah, thanks for the reminder. For a moment, I had almost forgotten how awful the History tour footage was.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

AlwaysThere, ah, thanks for the reminder. For a moment, I had almost forgotten how awful the History tour footage was.

I did not say in my last quote that the History tour footage was awful. The Kubrick comparison was used simply for the sake of the argument.

The fact of the matter is that no amount of studio effects or editing or promotion can do something to improve a poor performance, and that is entirely Michael's fault. You can't very well blame the current estate for something Michael had done almost twenty years ago.

 

[AngelMJ136]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

YES. Its high time we get to see MJ on the big screen. I don't understand why the estate hasn't started working on something like this already. Other artists are releasing documentaries and movies, MJ should be in the forefront when it comes to a cinematic release of his tours. No other artist's concerts come anywhere near the level of MJ 's live performances in every tour of his. He designed his history concert that way, it was visually appealing and definitely worthy of cinematic release.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

AlwaysThere, no worries. It has already been explained countless times to me and others that the majority of hard-core fans, at least in this thread, believe as you do so I will not derail the thread by saying anything otherwise. Threads flow better when there is consensus.

 

[CodaBroda]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Best thing I could see out of a project like this is if they took a "behind the scenes/finished concert" hybrid approach, covering the production of the tour itself, and showing each of the finished performances. So kind of a "This is It" approach, but also showing the finished product, and highlighting the work that went behind the performance. People could see how much work and detail he put into every aspect of the show, before people can have the chance to rag on him for lip syncing.

If this tour didn't display his full talent in dancing and singing, it sure displayed his talent in the development of the production and theatrics of the show. They are unmatched, even by today's standards. Each song on the HIStory Tour had a visual story on stage, countless details throughout every aspect of the show, that could be highlighted if such a project could happen. Only thing is that this kind of film would run a little long, so some of the songs (probably the less "theatrical" performances) would probably have to be cut.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I think Bad Tour is the best tour visually. The costumes, stage, lighting and performances were better.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

He designed his history concert that way, it was visually appealing and definitely worthy of cinematic release.

It is not worthy according to the majority of hard-core fans in this thread.

If this tour didn't display his full talent in dancing and singing, it sure displayed his talent in the development of the production and theatrics of the show.

According to the majority of hard-core fans in this thread, those talents were far better in previous tours.

 

[CodaBroda]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

According to the majority of hard-core fans in this thread, those talents were far better in previous tours.

Upon second thought, I definitely agree with you in some respect. HIStory tour kinda confirms the saying that "sometimes less is more". In terms of costumes, props, backdrops, etc., however, I personally think visually HIStory was able to capture the songs better, at least on stage. I mean, Earth song had a freakin' TANK that would come on the stage every night. That's dedication, lol

The performance for TDCAU medley and the "HIStory" ending song are icing on the cake. Those performances are the very definition of theatrics. And overall, IMO, all of the songs that he had performed in Bad and Dangerous tours (Beat It, Billie Jean, Thriller, etc.) were even more polished in the HIStory tour, at least on a purely VISUAL standpoint. Not in terms of showing his singing or dancing talents. I won't deny that the Bad Tour is the best display for those.

 

[analogue]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Upon second thought, I definitely agree with you in some respect. HIStory tour kinda confirms the saying that "sometimes less is more". In terms of costumes, props, backdrops, etc., however, I personally think visually HIStory was able to capture the songs better, at least on stage. I mean, Earth song had a freakin' TANK that would come on the stage every night. That's dedication, lol

The performance for TDCAU medley and the "HIStory" ending song are icing on the cake. Those performances are the very definition of theatrics. And overall, IMO, all of the songs that he had performed in Bad and Dangerous tours (Beat It, Billie Jean, Thriller, etc.) were even more polished in the HIStory tour, at least on a purely VISUAL standpoint. Not in terms of showing his singing or dancing talents. I won't deny that the Bad Tour is the best display for those.

I'll take the ''Tell me what about it'' adlibs anyday over the tank being brought on stage.

Michael didn't need any fancy stage props or special effects. He was the special effect

 

[HIStory]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Here we go again with the tank as a major argument for the HIStory tour.

 

[analogue]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Here we go again with the tank as a major argument for the HIStory tour.

There's also the gold pants lol

 

[Tony R]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I'll take the ''Tell me what about it'' adlibs anyday over the tank being brought on stage.

Michael didn't any fancy stage props or special effects. He was the special effect

Agree but then you have a great special effect as your signature which kinda negates your argument!

The effects work when they enhance the live performance not instead of, e.g. The pop up, MITM jet pack, the SC lean etc...

 

[HIStory]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

There's also the gold pants lol

Well, as a woman that's actually a legit argument and I find that more exciting than the tank. But that does not mean I'd change my mind about the this topic for that.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Wow-this thread has been so wierd to read with the words "selfish" and "embarrassing" being thrown around by people who don't seem to understand the BIG picture of having a BIG SCREEN version of a Michael Jackson show finally being shown in theatres to the general public. Much less all the excuses for his performances. I started thinking maybe they could put a disclaimer at the beginning of the movie like they did in "Thriller." NOTE: WARNING: Michael is suffering from lupus, laryngitis, several injuries and is OLD (39)"

Personally, I would go see Michael if he came out by himself on the stage under a spotlight, put his own albums on a record player and sang along with them. I'd be screaming like a lovesick crazy woman. But I do want everybody else to see something like "Bad Tour" as his first big screen tour debut.

Best thing I could see out of a project like this is if they took a "behind the scenes/finished concert" hybrid approach, covering the production of the tour itself, and showing each of the finished performances. So kind of a "This is It" approach, but also showing the finished product, and highlighting the work that went behind the performance. People could see how much work and detail he put into every aspect of the show, before people can have the chance to rag on him for lip syncing.

If this tour didn't display his full talent in dancing and singing, it sure displayed his talent in the development of the production and theatrics of the show. They are unmatched, even by today's standards. Each song on the HIStory Tour had a visual story on stage, countless details throughout every aspect of the show, that could be highlighted if such a project could happen.

Now, THIS is the best idea anyone has come up with since John Branca first mentioned a 3D version of the tour back with the BAD25 debut. This would be fantastic. I could watch those "Dangerous" rehearsals all day and all night. And all the critics talked about the sheer genius he showed putting together "This is It" when reviewing the film. I think this idea would be a winner.

 

[analogue]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Agree but then you have a great special effect as your signature which kinda negates your argument!

The effects work when they enhance the live performance not instead of, e.g. The pop up, MITM jet pack, the SC lean etc...

I never said that I don't like any special effect. I said that Michael didn't need any special effects.

 

[analogue]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

But the one thing I'd love from the HIstory era is the HBO One Night Only rehearsals. That, to me is more interesting than any HIStory Tour show

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Agree but then you have a great special effect as your signature which kinda negates your argument!

The effects work when they enhance the live performance not instead of, e.g. The pop up, MITM jet pack, the SC lean etc...

I like the Bad Tour ending for Man in the Mirror more but the jet back ending is amazing though. Also the lean in Smooth Criminal wasn't necessary. When I watch the Bad Tour performance I don't wish that the lean was there too.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I never said that I don't like any special effect. I said that Michael didn't need any special effects.

I know, but I meant when used correctly they can enhance the show too.

In my opinion, DWT had the mix just right.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

People are making out that the estate releasing Michael's final tour, is comparable to the Cascio tracks that were shipped almost 3 million times? Get over yourselves. yes, his first two tours are far superior but it's all about the excitement. Plus, AlwaysThere... You say standing there for 5 minutes is talented? Really? That is just simply and completely WRONG. Anyhow, I prefer the basic ending! I'd take footage of Michael walking backstage over him just flying away any day of the week.

 

[CodaBroda]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I'll take the ''Tell me what about it'' adlibs anyday over the tank being brought on stage.

Michael didn't need any fancy stage props or special effects. He was the special effect

Most definitely. That's why I would prefer the Bad and Dangerous tour over HIStory anyday. But Michael's skill for theatrics and production through special effects, props, costumes, etc. are still a talent of Michael's that shouldn't be overlooked, and this tour is where he brought it to a whole new level, and set a very high bar. (Hence, the tank, lol)

 

[Tygger]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

Coduscus, I have no issue with the History tour. You may have not read the posts/pages before your post but, the majority of hard-core fans have already explained why the tank in particular is cringe-worthy and embarrassing which does not make the History tour worthy of a theatrical release. Plus, there are other artists whose staging after the History tour were much more pleasing to the majority.

I personally do not rank Michael's tours. I enjoyed them all.

 

[hrp102]

Re: Should HIStory Tour be released to cinemas?

I'm from the dangerous/history era in terms of being old enough to know of MJ's music. At the time, the videos of course were impressive, but I thought he was just ok as a performer and assumed outside of impressive choreography he was mostly about light shows and fireworks instead of actual singing and live music. I didn't know about the bad tour until clips started showing up on youtube in 2006. That was the first time it was clear he was the greatest performer of all time. The difference between the Bad tour and History is enormous, like from greatest of all time to slightly embarrassing. I'd say the History tour should not be viewed at all by non-fans - like ever. I'm even annoyed it's available on youtube.