HIStory 25 [MERGED]

[dam2040]

You're welcome! hahahah

On TDCAU I'm not so bothered, you know. I feel like, given I bought HIStory on the Saturday of it's first week release, and I have about 4 different TDCAU singles, then I have all the versions with their minor changes - incidentally I do prefer the "single version" over the appearance on the LP, the 'LP edit' and the 'single edit'. Besides the loud sound effects over the 'offensive' lyrics there is an extra drum beat that appears in the 'single version' that elevates the track just another step.

I also think MJ signed off on the change. So what would he want now? Difficult one. I suppose the way to do it would be to present both versions and give them plenty of context as to what MJ meant, the controversy it generated and why MJ was compelled to change it.

Also, lazy once again to assume that there's nothing of value to put on an anniversary edition of the album. As I commented on in a different thread, these are just covers for the Estate's lack of action.

AGREED! TDCAU single edit is rockin! Always my favourite edit of the song. The censor sound effects were cool also. There's another version where the word's just double up and it's not as good.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Those versions sound cool because MJ wouldn’t release anything that doesn’t. But they are still crippled versions of the original artistic vision.

 

[Fuzball]

But they are still crippled versions of the original artistic vision.

Nevertheless they're still state of the art masterpieces if compared to posthumous "album versions" released by the Estate.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Nevertheless they're still state of the art masterpieces if compared to posthumous "album versions" released by the Estate.

True, but that’s not the problem I have with the censorship that’s been going on for 25 years now.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Also, lazy once again to assume that there's nothing of value to put on an anniversary edition of the album. As I commented on in a different thread, these are just covers for the Estate's lack of action.

Yep, like you said before any time any of us suggest the estate actually put effort into something people come in making every excuse under the sun and acting like we're somehow at fault for wanting to pay for something that isn't subpar.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Also, lazy once again to assume that there's nothing of value to put on an anniversary edition of the album. As I commented on in a different thread, these are just covers for the Estate's lack of action.

You don't know that with any higher degree of certainty than I do.

That's my entire point -- people cry "lack of action" and "lazy" because we don't get exactly what we want, even if what we want is unrealistic. Sometimes these claims are warranted (e.g., the HIStory 25 merch, the 2016 Off the Wall reissue), but sometimes they're not.

Yep, like you said before any time any of us suggest the estate actually put effort into something people come in making every excuse under the sun and acting like we're somehow at fault for wanting to pay for something that isn't subpar.

I'm not making excuses. As I've said before, the Estate has pissed me off countless times, and holding them to a reasonable standard of quality is completely justifiable. I also think it's fair to be upset that HIStory isn't getting a proper reissue treatment.

However, I think it's ridiculous to go on further anti-Estate tangents because, in the middle of a global pandemic and worldwide social unrest, they chose not to funnel funds into a project that 90% of the general population has no interest in, simply to appease the 10% who will nevertheless complain that this or that song wasn't included, even though all available evidence suggests that the available material is sparse (though I would be happy to be schooled on the subject).

I mean no disrespect. We all have a right to our opinions. I am just tired of the ridiculous angles.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

With the time it takes to put a decent anniversary edition together, they couldn’t even have known we were going to have a pandemic at the time.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Like alwaysthere said we all have opinions what we like and don't like with this project following by we will always have people complaining over every single thing. remember the old saying goes. you can't not make everyone happy no matter what. why? because we all have different tastes etc.

at the end of the day i'm not pro-estate BUT i'm not anti-estate either.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

You don't know that with any higher degree of certainty than I do.

That's my entire point -- people cry "lack of action" and "lazy" because we don't get exactly what we want, even if what we want is unrealistic. Sometimes these claims are warranted (e.g., the HIStory 25 merch, the 2016 Off the Wall reissue), but sometimes they're not.



I'm not making excuses. As I've said before, the Estate has pissed me off countless times, and holding them to a reasonable standard of quality is completely justifiable. I also think it's fair to be upset that HIStory isn't getting a proper reissue treatment.

However, I think it's ridiculous to go on further anti-Estate tangents because, in the middle of a global pandemic and worldwide social unrest, they chose not to funnel funds into a project that 90% of the general population has no interest in, simply to appease the 10% who will nevertheless complain that this or that song wasn't included, even though all available evidence suggests that the available material is sparse (though I would be happy to be schooled on the subject).

I mean no disrespect. We all have a right to our opinions. I am just tired of the ridiculous angles.

So because some fans may have negative things to say about a project the estate should just continue selling us overpriced box sets with nothing new in them and overpriced badly designed clothes? Using the pandemic as way to try and make them look better doesn't really work, if they were working on a project it would have been started way before any of it happened. I don't really understand what you're trying to say here tbh, you started by saying that the reason they didn't release anything is because there's not enough material, and are now mentioning the pandemic. There are plenty of ways to celebrate an album without using totally unheard tracks.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Some fans like the merch while some don't. let's others buy it if they want to. we can not force them to buy it and not to buy it.

 

[AlwaysThere]

So because some fans may have negative things to say about a project the estate should just continue selling us overpriced box sets with nothing new in them and overpriced badly designed clothes?

Again, the issue isn't holding the Estate to a standard of quality; it's having irrational expectations and demands.

Complaining about the HIStory 25 merch? Reasonable.
Complaining that the "wrong demos" were included on the deluxe version of Xscape? Unreasonable.

Using the pandemic as way to try and make them look better doesn't really work, if they were working on a project it would have been started way before any of it happened. I don't really understand what you're trying to say here tbh, you started by saying that the reason they didn't release anything is because there's not enough material, and are now mentioning the pandemic.

John McClain was working on new music throughout summer/fall 2018. Then Leaving Neverland happened. Sudden, unanticipated changes to an industry and/or brand can cause schedule and program changes.

I also never said a lack of material was the definitive reason; I theorized that it may be ONE OF the reasons.

There are plenty of ways to celebrate an album without using totally unheard tracks.

Seeing that the most consistent complaint across both this forum and social media -- even more than the merch quality -- is the lack of new music, I would argue the exact opposite.

Not to mention that the Estate has attempted to celebrate Michael's music without brand-new songs (see disc 2 of This Is It, the Immortal soundtrack, The Indispensable Collection, The Ultimate Fan Extras Collection, the deluxe tracks on Xscape, the 2016 Off the Wall reissue), only to be immediately chastised for doing so.

Again, there are aspects of each of these projects that can be rationally criticized. But there is no universe in which the Estate isn't met with backlash every time they do ANYTHING that doesn't include a myriad of new songs.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

In my opinion Xscape and Bad25 was awesome projects. I wouldn't mine them doing more things like that. :kickass:

 

[AlwaysThere]

In my opinion Xscape and Bad25 was awesome projects. I wouldn't mine them doing more things like that. :kickass:

Agreed! They were both fantastic, especially Bad 25!

 

[JichaelMackson]

Agreed! They were both fantastic, especially Bad 25!

I don't think I was aware of the bad25 project. In 2012 I wasn't active in an MJ community. I wasn't for thriller 25 either but somehow that project got a lot of attention. It showed in the charts I think the album got to nr 1 again in my country. I loved Xscape for a while though I only listened to the original recordings. But imo the songs used on Bad25 are overall better than those on Xscape.

It's weird but I only started looking for a place like this since LN aired, to find answers.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Agreed! They were both fantastic, especially Bad 25!

yay finally who agree with me. wow. this is kind of rare. hahahaha. but yeah I loved both of them. I really hope they do more things like that in the future.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

It's weird but I only started looking for a place like this since LN aired, to find answers.

You're not the only one. I came here last year really because of LN. to be honest I actually wasn't all that active in the community until the news broke out. like i said i think LN made the community more active etc. which is kind of sad it took a fake movie to get all of us together again.

 

[ChrisC]

That's my entire point -- people cry "lack of action" and "lazy" because we don't get exactly what we want, even if what we want is unrealistic.

Absolute nonsense. (if you're referring to me)

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Nobody here has asked for anything unrealistic. So I don't understand why you're feeling the need to defend the estate so hard. I also don't think asking for basic things to do be done right (in regards to Xscape) is unrealistic. Nobody has complained about which demos were included, just that they sounded like utter garbage for no reason, which they do. Also, a few members on here not being happy with it does not equal mass negativity against the estate.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

:doh:

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

AlwaysThere i get you. let's just put this to rest.

 

[dam2040]

I for one don't believe there was nothing worth releasing for HIStory 25.

 

[Fuzball]

I for one don't believe there was nothing worth releasing for HIStory 25.

Exactly, when there is a will, there's always a way! The estate could re-release HIStory with bonus content (on a third disc) without "sacrificing" never before heard songs. Just put some earlier demos/alternate mixes of selected songs from the albums original 30 tracks as well as the original versions of Much Too Soon & Behind The Mask.

 

[DuranDuran]

re-releases

I mean look at all the people before Michael. they all had anniversaries and still to this day rerelease albums. and most of them aren't with us anymore.

Not really. Out of all the albums that have been released all over the world, very few have had anniversary versions. Most older albums are out of print and have never even been reissued on CD. If you want them you have to find the record or tape of it. It's unlikely they'll ever be reissued. In some cases because the original master tapes are lost or destroyed, same for film/videotape of old movies & TV shows. There's record labels like Numero Group & Light In The Attic that specialize in re-releasing music from obscure artists & record labels.

 

[Nite Line]

Nobody here has asked for anything unrealistic. So I don't understand why you're feeling the need to defend the estate so hard. I also don't think asking for basic things to do be done right (in regards to Xscape) is unrealistic. Nobody has complained about which demos were included, just that they sounded like utter garbage for no reason, which they do. Also, a few members on here not being happy with it does not equal mass negativity against the estate.

Some of you fans love to find faults with everything. Xscape is a perfect project. It has the original version of the songs for the fans and the contemporary version for the general public. If you don't like the reworked version of the songs, don't listen to them. Simple as that.

No need to find flaws in every Estate project.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Some of you fans love to find faults with everything. Xscape is a perfect project. It has the original version of the songs for the fans and the contemporary version for the general public. If you don't like the reworked version of the songs, don't listen to them. Simple as that.

No need to find flaws in every Estate project.

I didn't even mention reworks in the post you quoted so don't really know what you're getting at.

 

[Fuzball]

Some of you fans love to find faults with everything. Xscape is a perfect project. It has the original version of the songs for the fans and the contemporary version for the general public. If you don't like the reworked version of the songs, don't listen to them. Simple as that.

No need to find flaws in every Estate project.

Why the hell does the estate contemporise/remix every song literally by hook or by crook? At least 5 songs on Xscape & 2 songs on MICHAEL were already in a releasable state (except propper mixing, of course).

 

[Iwasaloser619]

I get the feeling they might actually make the album because of the increase of streams of his music, they are constantly using the History25 hashtag. Also since the History album focuses on the the past, present, and future (which is in the title of the album) they can just put music and that was never released from any point in his career. And better quality music videos and concerts from any point of his career. Finally there hasn’t been that much leaked or released songs from the history era and album. It’s probably one of the easiest anniversary albums they can do.

 

[Mr. Make Believe]

yay finally who agree with me. wow. this is kind of rare. hahahaha. but yeah I loved both of them. I really hope they do more things like that in the future.

I agree also. Those where great, and the estate listened to what we want in terms of releasing original demos and a second leg bad world tour concert. It's all we asked for and more. Sure than you can be disappointed in the video quality, but that's a different discussion. Those release were great either way.

The other releases though... As a collector I don't mind repackage releases like the diamond collection, but things have to be more in balance. The amount of repackaged and compilation releases. It's just too much when you compare it to the releases that bring something new.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I feel the diamond collection was nice expect they should of made the picture vinyls better. they don't sound too good as a picture vinyl. you might as well just buy the regular vinyls.

or they could like do it again where the vinyl are not pictures. it would cost alittle bit lesser.

they kind of did that in the past where the vinyls were smaller and you could buy them lesser. it would be nice if they rerelease them. you can find a lot of them on ebay etc.

i think they call 45's. i could be wrong but yeah.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I find Xscape remixes good. there's some who don't like them and there's some who do like them. the remixes was for today sound and younger fans. Michael wanted to try different genres of music anyway. so it really doesn't surprise me they did that.

i see it as people who has different tastes can enjoy or if you don't like the remixes the original demos are there.

i'm not sure how Michael would feel about people remixing his music but he did wanted to try different genres.