Latest on MJJC

HIStory 25 [MERGED]

Theory: there is no HIStory 25 because there isn't enough material to warrant one.

Several informants have suggested that the HIStory section of the vault is essentially barren. Neither Joseph Vogel, Damien Shields, nor Mike Smallcombe—three of the most credible sources available—have been able to identify a single usable outtake from the 1994-95 sessions; several of the long-circulating titles (e.g., "Bassouille," "Fear") have been debunked; and the handful of known titles are either released ("Morphine," "Is It Scary," "On the Line," "In the Back," "Much Too Soon"), spoken word pieces over instrumental grooves ("Faces"), or lacking vocals beyond a chorus ("Willing & Waiting," "Innocent Man").

Assistant engineer Rob Hoffman did say there were a few nearly-finished pieces in 2009, but since he refused to identify any titles beyond "Much Too Soon," it's within the realm of possibility that these were holdovers from previous albums that we've since heard (e.g., "Do You Know Where Your Children Are").

Furthermore, are the demos of HIStory tracks even worth inclusion? Early cuts of songs like "Jam," "Billie Jean," and "Gone Too Soon" are completely extraneous, and that very well could be the case here. "What About Us" is nearly indistinguishable from "Earth Song," and for all we know, the 1989-90 sketch of "They Don't Care About Us" has no vocals.

When the Estate was gearing up for Off the Wall in 2016, they issued a statement claiming that there was insufficient unreleased material to justify any sort of elaborate music drop (which is entirely plausible seeing that the Off the Wall sessions are just as desolate as HIStory in terms of publicly available information). That very well could be the case here.

Plenty of fans were displeased with Bad 25 because it housed the two foreign language cuts of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" and three irrelevant remixes. If all the Estate has to offer are similar recordings, maybe it's best that we don't get anything. I'm sure plenty will say, "the Estate is just greedy," but sometimes that's not the case.
 
Last edited:
Good points, but personally I would very much love to hear all the demos and early cuts of everything, because I’m interested in the creative process.

We also need a proper audio release of the Olodum version of TDCAU. And the uncensored version of course.

Then we also know there’s video footage of a recording session for Childhood.
 
Nite Line said:
We don't want releases of lip-synced concerts that are already available on youtube.
Click to expand...

I ain't talking about the History tour lmao. I'm talking about Triumph, Victory and Bad tours. Why didn't they release a Triumph show for the OTW anniversary?
 
Hulkamaniac said:
I ain't talking about the History tour lmao. I'm talking about Triumph, Victory and Bad tours. Why didn't they release a Triumph show for the OTW anniversary?
Click to expand...

Oh my bad. I agree that those tours need to be released in HQ. I would also add Destiny tour to the mix.
 
ScreenOrigami;4292570 said:
Good points, but personally I would very much love to hear all the demos and early cuts of everything, because I’m interested in the creative process.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya. as long their not too short and don't have less any differences to the finish project.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4292588 said:
That's the point. maybe one day you will win the lottery and buy it or check around ebay etc. :)
Click to expand...

I prefer they just re-release MJ’s work the way it was meant to be released.
 
ScreenOrigami;4292589 said:
I prefer they just re-release MJ’s work the way it was meant to be released.
Click to expand...

that's okay but in opinion what's the point if we already have the finish project. I agree with alwaysthere. that's only if their long not too short and don't have less any differences to the finish project.

but if people willing buying half of things. then so be. it's isn't my money.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4292590 said:
that's okay but in opinion what's the point if we already have the finish project. I agree with alwaysthere. that's only if their long not too short and don't have less any differences to the finish project.

but if people willing buying half of things. then so be. it's isn't my money.
Click to expand...

I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing here. MJ’s lyrics were censored in TDCAU because people wanted to read things into it that weren’t there. I want this re-released uncensored, so I can stop listening to a digitized first vinyl pressing that I had to scrape off the internet.
 
^what are you talking about? The first pressing with uncensored TDCAU was also released on CD.
 
AlwaysThere;4292568 said:
Theory: there is no HIStory 25 because there isn't enough material to warrant one.

Several informants have suggested that the HIStory section of the vault is essentially barren. Neither Joseph Vogel, Damien Shields, nor Mike Smallcombe—three of the most credible sources available—have been able to identify a single usable outtake from the 1994-95 sessions; several of the long-circulating titles (e.g., "Bassouille," "Fear") have been debunked; and the handful of known titles are either released ("Morphine," "Is It Scary," "On the Line," "In the Back," "Much Too Soon"), spoken word pieces over instrumental grooves ("Faces"), or lacking vocals beyond a chorus ("Willing & Waiting," "Innocent Man").

Assistant engineer Rob Hoffman did say there were a few nearly-finished pieces in 2009, but since he refused to identify any titles beyond "Much Too Soon," it's within the realm of possibility that these were holdovers from previous albums that we've since heard (e.g., "Do You Know Where Your Children Are").

Furthermore, are the demos of HIStory tracks even worth inclusion? Early cuts of songs like "Jam," "Billie Jean," and "Gone Too Soon" are completely extraneous, and that very well could be the case here. "What About Us" is nearly indistinguishable from "Earth Song," and for all we know, the 1989-90 sketch of "They Don't Care About Us" has no vocals.

When the Estate was gearing up for Off the Wall in 2016, they issued a statement claiming that there was insufficient unreleased material to justify any sort of elaborate music drop (which is entirely plausible seeing that the Off the Wall sessions are just as desolate as HIStory in terms of publicly available information). That very well could be the case here.

Plenty of fans were displeased with Bad 25 because it housed the two foreign language cuts of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" and three irrelevant remixes. If all the Estate has to offer are similar recordings, maybe it's best that we don't get anything. I'm sure plenty will say, "the Estate is just greedy," but sometimes that's not the case.
Click to expand...

I thought it was pretty much obvious at this point that the "not enough material" excuse doesn't really fly when we know there's material from that period, OTW, I mean. I don't think it really flies with HIStory either, demos of released tracks could easily be included. It's simple. Doesn't matter what state they are in fans will still be interested to hear them. Also I don't partake in their approach of trying to make MJ into some modern artists that he isn't by any means necessary. They should be releasing stuff for the fans. You have pointed out before that the Estate do not need to release anything as they make enough money from MJ's back catalogue, which is true, so why should we make excuses for them when they make crappy decisions when trying to sell us stuff?
 
Hulkamaniac;4292592 said:
^what are you talking about? The first pressing with uncensored TDCAU was also released on CD.
Click to expand...

But it’s no longer available, right? Every CD out there that I can buy right now is censored. So are the streams on Spotify etc.

Btw, I usually buy Vinyl when available. ;)
 
Hulkamaniac;4292595 said:
Not true. Here you can buy the uncensored version: https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-HIStory-Past-Present-And-Future-Book-I/release/446273
Click to expand...

I’m talking about an official re-release that’s regularly on the shelves and streaming services for new fans to enjoy. Not some obscure first edition that I have to actively seek out on online marketplaces or flea markets. I know that I can do that. But as a new fan I wouldn’t even know that a different version exists.
 
The reason tdcau is censored because it offend some of his fans. that's why HIMSELF censored the original version. you find it on ebay etc.
 
They released the complete uncensored (without the graffiti) version of the Black or White short film on YouTube. There’s precedent for un-censoring things.
 
ScreenOrigami;4292596 said:
But as a new fan I wouldn’t even know that a different version exists.
Click to expand...

So? that's the magic of being a fan. You discover things through time. I doubt you learned all about MJs music in just one day.
 
ScreenOrigami said:
Are you deliberately missing my point?
Click to expand...

Your point doesn't make sense to me. You are asking for something that's already been released. I would support you if you were asking for an unreleased version or something.
 
Hulkamaniac;4292601 said:
Your point doesn't make sense to me. You are asking for something that's already been released. I would support you if you were asking for an unreleased version or something.
Click to expand...

So everyone who hasn’t been around 25 years ago is supposed to pick up one of the handful of vintage CDs/LPs to get their hands on the version of TDCAU that MJ originally created? Because some people back then were too dense to understand the lyrics? Right.
 
ScreenOrigami;4292602 said:
So everyone who hasn’t been around 25 years ago is supposed to pick up one of the handful of vintage CDs/LPs to get their hands on the version of TDCAU that MJ originally created?
Click to expand...

Why not? I honestly don't see the problem. You're getting a limited edition in your hands. That's cool imo :)
 
Hulkamaniac;4292604 said:
Why not? I honestly don't see the problem. You're getting a limited edition in your hands. That's cool imo :)
Click to expand...

So you’re ok with the officially distributed version remaining censored 25 years after some people complained? That’s how art is supposed to be treated?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top