[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Many people who have been abused tend believe anyone who makes an allegation, although of course there are exceptions as we have seen with Matty Jam. But sometimes people who have been abused cannot be objective about such allegations against others - they automatically side with any accuser, no matter what.

Exactly this. I think abuse victims see it in a very personal way because it's so hard for them to come forward and some of them weren't believed so they try to compensate for that by believing anyone who makes a claim; they don't want anyone to suffer the way they did. It's understandable but they're projecting too much and letting personal feelings get in the way. When I debate this I don't argue it by how I feel, I use facts to demonstrate why I don't believe the claims and remind people that it's not up to me to prove a negative anyway, it's not how evidence or logic work. Personal feelings have nothing whatsoever to do with what's true and what isn't, those who believe MJ did something can't make it true by believing it is and feeling strongly about it just as fans believing he didn't do anything and having strong feelings doesn't make that true. It's a difficult topic because many people go with their feelings coupled with poor knowledge, it's a much smaller number who deliberately lie about it. The former group I have more respect for, they tend to be the group you have more chance of reasoning with. There's a growing 'just believe' movement that while well intentioned is actually promoting a fallacy by saying every claim should be automatically believed and reasonable doubt is ignored.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

If just break my heart when a person who has really begin sexual abuse do not come forward because they feel that ppls will not believer them that their are make it up Wade has lie from day one and know that we know the truth about what he was trying to do i hope the Estate sue him and i hope the judge rule on this and dismiss this case in summary judgement.

 

[KOPV]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

^ It's true, people coming up with fake ass allegations only make it harder for those who were ACTUALLY abused.. Another example of the selfishness it takes to do what Wade (and those who have alleged against mike) is doing.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Thank you Ivy for your very helpful and informative new post about the deposition extracts supporting the recent 'Motion to Compel.'

http://dailymichael.com/lawsuits/ro...om-wade-and-joy-robson-depositions-and-emails

There are a couple of things in the deposition extracts that I find a bit odd:

1. Wade says that he thought his experience of abuse might make him more relatable, as his meditation teacher suggested....But then he actually says that his meditation teacher said that people don't always want to be taught by someone with the same experiences...
(This might be an example of Wade's memory 'evolving' LOL)

http://[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pncl07vqj][/URL]


2. Joy seems to have given up her job on the day that MJ died...I wonder why??? Was she so close to him that she couldn't work any more???
I wonder if Joy worked anywhere else since. If not, it could be construed that Wade's claim is an effort to make money for his mother, as well as for himself.


http://[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pn5vtcGcj][/URL]

 

[ivy]

1. Wade says that he thought his experience of abuse might make him more relatable, as his meditation teacher suggested....But then he actually says that his meditation teacher said that people don't always want to be taught by someone with the same experiences...

I think he means people don't want a standard mediation teacher all with same backgrounds. He says a surfer might prefer another surfer. So he clearly think he will be relatable to people with history of abuse.

2. Joy seems to have given up her job on the day that MJ died...I wonder why??? Was she so close to him that she couldn't work any more???
I wonder if Joy worked anywhere else since. If not, it could be construed that Wade's claim is an effort to make money for his mother, as well as for himself.

That was interesting yes. According to her Linkedin she is working though.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joey-robson-8668634a

Talent Agent
Jaime Ferrar Agency
2011 – Present (6 years)
Commercial Agent

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I think he means people don't want a standard mediation teacher all with same backgrounds. He says a surfer might prefer another surfer. So he clearly think he will be relatable to people with history of abuse.

.OK...I got it now...bit slow tonight Thank you
(I mistakenly read 'Not everyone wants to learn from the same kind of person with the same life story' as other people who have experienced abuse'....)

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

.OK...I got it now...bit slow tonight Thank you

it is interesting though. He does think that a history of abuse makes him relevant. Weird IMO. What did he plan to do? Advertise he was abused to attract mediation students?

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

If just break my heart when a person who has really begin sexual abuse do not come forward because they feel that ppls will not believer them that their are make it up Wade has lie from day one and know that we know the truth about what he was trying to do i hope the Estate sue him and i hope the judge rule on this and dismiss this case in summary judgement.

And see, that is difference between someone whos really abused and someone who is lying. What person is abused and did not want to come forward BUT is DEFENDING the person he/she is accusing of abusing him/her IN THE COURT OF LAW AND IN PUBLIC even AFTER he dies, and people going to his home, using his money to get body wax, not wanting to leave his home because you want to live there, WILLING to go on tape and say he never did anything to you, CHANGE stories on stand in court, people making claims for money until they are in court and have to admit they lied for money and never saw anything, and this person who is accused is NOT a family member who you have to be around or deal with like a father, brother, cousin and so forth. I can go on. Go ask people who you know are REAL victims and see if they will answer to YES to all of these questions. No, they will not. And as I keep repeating. If MJ was a real pedo, it would NOT take this much effort still to prove it. Look at when pedo are caught, CREDITABLE evidence with CREDITABLE PEOPLE and the effort to get them is not hard and I do not care if they are rich or poor. This is just a WITCH HUNT to destroy MJ and get his money. I can truly say MJ was given NO special treatment; in fact, MJ was treated and investigated worst than a killer.

 

[redfrog]

Exactly this. I think abuse victims see it in a very personal way because it's so hard for them to come forward and some of them weren't believed so they try to compensate for that by believing anyone who makes a claim; they don't want anyone to suffer the way they did. It's understandable but they're projecting too much and letting personal feelings get in the way.

I have no sympathy for anyone who enables false accusers. Evan Chandler was accused of sodomy. Should we believe her
just because she said she was raped? How easy it is to say "I was raped" if you weren't? Extremely easy. It's just words, no emotional
trauma is attached to those words if you are a liar. It's especially when the media is fully on your side
and won't ever question anything you say no matter how nonsensical it is and when you believe
the allegations will make you very very rich.

Anyone who believes a sex abuse claim without looking at whether the story is even possible let alone
plausible enablers false accusers who ruin innocent people.

Joy Robson still uses Joey Robson AFTER his son told her that MJ molested him?

It was MJ who called Joy Joey because he said it was more funky.

http://infinitedancecast.com/?p=193

If I learned someone raped my son the first thing would be to get rid of the nickname that rapist gave to me.

In her deposition that took place on September 30th, 2016, when she was asked about whether or not she has talked to her son about his lawsuit she answered: “Not really. I just… I don’t consider that my business.”

What the bloody ****? Your son accuses one of your former friends of raping him and it's not your business?
And if he didn't talk to you about his lawsuit then what the hell were all those emails about?

Robson never forgot what happened between him and MJ. Then why didn't he say anything about the trip to Solvang
and the supposed molestation in the car before seeing that story during discovery? I guess he will say
his memory evolved. After he never forgot anything he will say oh I just forgot about that.

Wade replies “I believe Michael taught me how to lie really well about the abuse I suffered at his hands”.

But he forgot to teach Chandler Francia and Arvizo to lie really well, right? None of them claimed
that MJ taught them to lie really well, Arvizo Francia didn't even say that MJ said anything to prevent disclosure. No threats
no brainwashing, nothing. He just didn't care that those two would spill the beans but was so concerned Robson and Safechuck would talk that he taught them over and over again how to lie? He only taught Safechuck and Robson really well the ones who need some explanation as to why they defended him for 20+ years and only accused him years after he died.
Robson understood he had to lie about the sex but didn't understand he had to lie about it because it was wrong, abuse
and molestation and illegal. :crazy He just kept denying it because he was fine with it and he thought it was consensual.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

It's interesting that Joy indicates that regarding oral discussions about the case, 'she doesn't see that much of him',...and then there's a hint that she added something about phone calls.

http://[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pm7mDAJhj][/URL]

That seems a bit disingenuous to say the least. I'm guessing that Wade spent some time in LA when there were press / TV interviews about the case, and when he needed to speak to attorneys? And Wade's son is Joy's grandson, so I'm sure the family spent time visiting, at Christmas and other occasions (eg the TV dance event, and didn't Wade do some film work in LA). And Wade is an expert with digital cameras and good with computer equipment, so it's possible he set up a skype connection or similar for his mum. So for Joy to say rather lamely that 'Wade lives in Maui' sounds like she was definitely evading the question about what oral discussions she'd had with Wade.

I'm glad to see that the Estate atty's were able to question Wade (at deposition) for the full 7 hours..and they still had questions left at the end of that time. Wade still seems to have a lot of explaining to do, even if his atty's were jumping in at every response, to try to close things down.

I'm glad Wade has written somewhere in his computer documents that he is a 'Master of deception' I'm sure that phrase will come back to bite him!

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I'm glad Wade has written somewhere in his computer documents that he is a 'Master of deception' I'm sure that phrase will come back to bite him!

Of course he will say that he became the master of deception at age 7 right after MJ first telling him
never to tell anyone that he touched his penis.

Wade Robson the (almost) international superstar had that talent at age 7!

This is odd. She has several versions of what happened? And if it doesn't benefit Wade
then let's not include it in his lawsuit?

This makes it clear that in Sept 2012 Wade had no clue how the companies could be accused
what exactly he should throw at them but he was fishing for something he could use to incriminate them, in case his book plan
and probate claim do not work.
When what Joy told him about the first meeting in the US didn't really supported his agenda,
as Joy orchestrated the whole thing not Norma, he still used the episode to
"incriminate" Norma and the companies. He knows it's all bull, he doesn't care. Beyond disgusting.

He asks his mother about what happened during that first weekend but then he pretends to
remember such details like he and his sister slept in the same bed the first night, the second
night she expressed concern and told him to go sleep upstairs with her, he pretends to remember
that the second night he slept alone in bed with MJ after playing video games, pillow fights
and tickling and after he was abused , him being very specific about where MJ's hand was
cause he remembers that too (he was 7! for god's sake) and then he pretends to remember
the exact words MJ told him.
Hey Wade, with such great memory why do you need to ask your mother about what you were doing
there?

No it wasn't the first time Joy Robson heard about allegations that MJ was a pedo. That was
in 1992 when she talked to Gutierrez in Venice Beach and very clearly she was not concerned
about Gutierrez being right as she continued to let her son sleep in MJ's bed. Of course
there is not a word about that in Robson's lawsuit. I hope the Estate knows about it
and how Joy Robson told the story to Jermaine after MJ died.

Master of deception, indeed. He sent himself an MJfact article but claims he has no idea what that website
is all about. Gimme a break.

Another monumental lie. He says MJ told him that it was love and it was not wrong and it was consensual
and that's what he believed. But that's not what he told when he was questioned. He simply
told that it never happened! Period. He never showered with him, he never kissed him on the mouth
he never touched him inappropriately, he never had any sexual contact with him. he never ever told anyone
yeah it happened but I think it's just expression of love and not wrong and not abuse.
And did MJ ever tell Robson to say "he had such innocence". That he was the reason why he believed
in the pure goodness of humankind? Hardly.

 

[Goddess4Real]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Thanks The Robsons are very deceptive bunch!

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

LOL at him using ******* to create his "evolving" memories (and then saying he has no idea about that website, LOL). It is pathetic enough that he uses such sources to create his story.

And if he is using Charli Michaels' story knowing it is not true what makes anyone think he isn't just using Blanca Francia's and the Quindoys' the same way? Of course, he knows those stories too are untrue. But now all of a sudden they helped him "evolve" memories of showering together with MJ and MJ abusing him in the backseat of his limo. LOL.

I wonder if Joy was throwing a fit because Wade wasn't included in the Super Bowl production. Also I vaugely remember a story which to me suggested the Robsons actually forced their way into the Pepsi commercial. I wish I would remember how it was exactly and what was the source.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

LOL at him using ******* to create his "evolving" memories (and then saying he has no idea about that website, LOL). It is pathetic enough that he uses such sources to create his story.

The fact that Robson doesn't refer to any actual witness statement with date and all in his lawsuit
with regard to this Michaels story is telling in and of itself.
Gutierrez came up with the Norma got boys concept first and ******* considers him as their hero,
what a coincidence that they have all these Norma said this Norma did that nonsense.

But how could the Estate prove that this story indeed was on ******* servers?

BTW Robson is using the "rubbing" version of Blanca Francia's shower story, the one which was in Sneddon's motion.
Too bad Francia told two totally different versions in 1993 and 2005, under oath.
It's just another typical Gutierrez fiction which evolved like Evan Chandler's "chronology".

Do you know what document this is from?

 

[etoile 37]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Looks like Wade needed some inspiration:

Evan Chandler was accused of sodomy.

I had never heard about this. Do you have more info?

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Looks like Wade needed some inspiration:

I had never heard about this. Do you have more info?

A woman named Suzanne Ager accused him. She suffered from the same kind of psychobabble as Robson and Safechuck
and Jane Doe.

Damn, I wish MJ had been an asshole. He was too good for this world.
Wade doesn't remember writing that, sure. How convenient.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

So his was father was sexually abused and he was interested to know what his father was saying about his experience. Imagine if he actually used what his mother said in the book he was going to publish or anywhere else as his own experience lol. At this point I believe it is fair to assume that the judge knows for sure he is a liar and his story is nothing but fiction. From the tidbits we got to read he was caught in an endless list of lies, so one can only imagine what the redacted documents contain.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

This crap wont stop until the estate takes someone to the cleaners.hopefully him. when you have proof of blatent lies perjury etc etc ppl who bring such false claims need to be punished

 

[Bubs]

These people are something!
“Not really. I just… I don’t consider that my business.”

Try to put yourself in a position that your son files a lawsuit against dead person/companies claiming that your son was abused by this dead person, would you ever say that it is not really your business?

What is the only scenario, you as mother, would say "not really my business" ? The scenario is where you know you son is trying to make living off easy way.
--------------------------
"Moreover, none of the questions nor the answers show any anger towards Michael as well. There is no emotion.
For example, Wade asks in a pretty lighthearted tone:: "How did it happen that I ended up staying with Michael and you guys went to the grand canyon?" "You guys came back to the ranch? And then the family left the ranch together?""

I agree with this. Wade is asking questions hoping that joy would provide him situations/timings that he could use to corporate to his made up claims.

-----------------------------------
“It’s time for me to get mine!”.
I know what he means by this. He has seen in the media how other people make money off MJ association, one way or the other, and it has been eating him up that he hasn't got his share, so there.
----------------------------------
Wade refers to himself as “a master of deception” in one writing. Estate lawyer asks “do you believe you are a good liar”. Wade replies “I believe Michael taught me how to lie really well about the abuse I suffered at his hands”.

Ouch! He admits he can lie really well. I'd like to see that brought up if this case goes on trial as he has caught up with many lies as we have seen from Ivy's docs.

I would loved to have a look at Chantal, Wade, and Joy's computers before they end up in the bottom of the sea.


I still don't get it as if he wrote a book about his abuse, why he tried to file his claim under the seal or protective order? If his book was going to be published, everything would have been out and open, so why trying to get his case under the seal?

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

It's interesting to see what Wade doesn't remember...ie pretty much everything, even when he was the only person it was happening to, as evidenced by his question to Joy about an occasion where he was home alone and saw 'the media' filming him through the window (email seems to be dated 4 Oct 12):


http://[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/poEqV8aGj][/URL]

I wonder what caused Joy and Amanda to have a falling-out in 2012 (email dated 23 July 12 ?):
http://[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/plzVV0xZj][/URL]

Overall, (considering all of Wade's complaints and other papers to date) Wade seems to be embracing the 'post-truth society' in a very comprehensive way LOL

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I noticed that in Wade's deposition, estate attorney marked some of his replies as exhibits, such as Wade's reply:"Well, I don't believe any publishing house saw anything that I wrote. So I didn't send it to any publishing house."

Thats was a lie per his emails, and I assume it will be brought up in trial or even before.
"Exhibit: A document or an object shown and identified in court as evidence in a case."

As for Joy not working since 2009. It seems to me that all of the Robson's lies just for sake of it, even when there is no need for it.
Joy actually worked with Chantal and Wade in 2011.
Play the Hollywood Game" Commercial workshop that teaches you to Slate, Audition Skills, On camera commercials, movement basic dance and the business of acting. You will learn how to play the game, learn the rules, learn how to beat the competition and learn how to win. Led by Joey Robson - Children's agent, casting, producer, manager for actors, dancers, choreographers, tour directors and recording artists; and Chantal Robson - Commercial and show choreographer and director. Credits include casting and choreographing commercials. music videos, tours and stage shows. Chantal has also been the on-camera talent on MTV's My Own, TLC's Rock the Reception and The singing Office. Joey is Wade Robson's mother and Chantal is his sister.
Classes are small and only a limited number of dancers are accepted.
Parent Industry Chat and Q & A with Be Discovered and top professionals. In 2010, manager Joey Robson, choreographer Chantel Robon and actor Dayo Ade of Lost fame held informative and fun chats with the parents.
Train and rehearse with the industry's hottest choreographers for your Disneyland performance. Choreographers are TBA and will include So You Can Dance, America's Best Dance Crew, Michael Jackson This is It! dancers and more.
http://www.summerinla.com/juniorsintensive.html#guests

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Can the lies (exhibits) be used in summary judgement or is it just about points of law

 

[Bubs]

Can the lies (exhibits) be used in summary judgement or is it just about points of law

Yes.
motion for summary judgment must be supported or opposed by “citing to particular parts of materials in the record,” to include “depositions, documents, electronically stored information, affidavits or declarations, stipulations, admissions, interrogatory answers, or other materials.”
http://apps.americanbar.org/litigat...g2013-0613-summary-judgment-evidence-101.html


I don't think it looks very good for Wade, so expect another wave of bs in the media anytime soon.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Thanks bubs

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

No i doesn't look good for Wade at all the Judge B just need to dismiss this case in summary judgement all you are going to hear from Wade is more lies. The Estate need to clean house now.

 

[KOPV]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Wade made it not look good for Wade... he brought any negativity that comes from this...

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I wonder...will the next hearing be about the 'Motion to Compel'? Do we know if a hearing date has been set, please?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I wonder...will the next hearing be about the 'Motion to Compel'? Do we know if a hearing date has been set, please?

There is a hearing scheduled for this on February 2.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I again, ask you guys, the MJ fan defence team - is it able to provide all the info from this thread about this BS case to the Estate and its lawyers?

They have to know everything what you have found and known about these cases, including videos, photos, docs, the previous connections with Chandler and co.

we can see how powerful you can be, if even tabloid is able to derive any info from DailyMichael or from here....

 

[redfrog]

She must know it when she sees crap like Norma Staikos was a madame, or MJ's companies “the most sophisticated child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has ever known"

Don't you know what document this comes from?