[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Don't you know what document this comes from?

It's written from Robson's response to interrogatories

 

[SarahJ]

Escpecially if it was you (not Norma Staikos or anyone else) who pushed your son on that person, who let him sleep in his bedroom etc. Joy disctancing herself from it all is very telling.

BTW in these e-mails it does seem that Wade is lying to her and putting on an act for her as well. But I do not believe she actually believes it. I think she knows it is BS. She must know it when she sees crap like Norma Staikos was a madame, or MJ's companies “the most sophisticated child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has ever known" - she knows first hand that is BS and I wonder what she really thinks when she sees her son lying through his teeth like that. But maybe that's why she doesn't want to see the lawsuit. Deep down she knows her son is a lying scumbag but doesn't want to face the evidence of it. It is better to stay in denial about what kind of amoral monster you have raised.




Yes, isn't that intereting? By these e-mails he basically does not remember anything (which is understandable) but when it comes to the alleged abuse he suddenly has so sharp and detailed memories? I know his apologists would say "because abuse is a traumatic experience, it stays with you", but 1) he doesn't just tell details about the alleged act itself but everything that allegedly happened before or after - that they had pillow fights, what MJ allegedly told him, he quotes him verbatim etc. Allegedly he remembers all of this in vivid detail, when he does not remember anything else and needs to ask his mother just about everything. 2) Let's not forget he claims the abuse was actually not a traumatic experience to him. He claims he thought it was normal and "love" and he was OK with it, even looking forward to it, and that he believed that to be the case until 2012. So I am not sure that argument would fly here.



It seems to me that Wade wants to be a career "abuse victim". Pretty disgusting to me, especially considering he is lying.



Wonder about that too. It looks like Amanda and Joy do not like each other much.

You can tell she's just protecting herself because she knows it's all crap. Trying to distance herself is not going to work. No-one had a duty of care to Wade more than she did. She's the one who pursued a relationship with MJ and let Wade spend time with him. She's the one who's accepting cash to pay of the loan of her car. She's the one who kept a friendship going and accepted whatever small gifts he gave them. And compared to other people they didn't seem to get much, or of his time either.

"That's none of my business." Since when? When is your child not your business and I don't care how old he is. Sounds like Evan Chandler in the tapes when he was asked how all it might affect Jordan and he answered "That's irrelevant to me". That's one of the main reasons right there you can tell it's all BS. No parent would say that about their child if they really believed anything had happened.

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant, but being a parent myself that just really angers me.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

deleted

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

From a document filed by Robson during the probate case in 2013. It is dated August 27, 2013. It is called "Claimant Wade Robson's responses and objections to first set of special interrogatories propounded by the executors of the Estate of Michael Joseph Jackson". It is attached to this declaration as Exhibit #35.

Do you have a link to this document, please? I can't find it on dailymichael.

His answers are not flowing naturally but it is like he is thinking to recite something.

Especially when he tries to explain why his story has kept changing and why he wrote a book.
He blames everything on the "healing process", like a mechanical parrot. Just like Jordan Chandler pulled out
his father's ideas whenever he was asked to explain why he didn't just stay away from MJ.
The real reason of course is that he liked being with MJ because he was not abused
but they had to fabricate some explanation other than that.

Jordan:

"Because he's a grown-up and he's using his experience, of his age in manipulating and
coercing younger people who don't have as much experience as him, and don't have the ability
to say no to someone powerful like that. He's using his power, his experience, his age - his
overwhelmingness - to get what he wants."


"Because he's an adult, he's overwhelming, he's famous, he's powerful."

Wade's real reason for writing a book was money and his real reason for changing his story
is that the whole thing is fiction but he needs an "alternative" explanation so he too sounds
like a mechanical parrot:

A. I don't know. you know , what these writings like as I talked about, the original intention
of how they started, which was just for the sake of my processing, right, and then it became
for the purpose of a book. You know, this reprocessing of my entire life for me through
this healing process, you know, has been and will continue to be, I imagine so, for the
rest of my life, meaning, you know, my perspective on things, my understanding of things,
is constantly evolving as I remove the clutter from it all, remove the , the emotional
and perspective repression of it all that I had compartmentalized for 22 years. So all that to say
that, you know, this process evolves as far as what I, what I remember, what comes clear
and my perspective on things.
Q. So have your memories changed as you've gone through this process?
A. They've evolved.
Q. What do you mean by "evolved"?
A. Yeah, I mean, not changed in a sort of black to white sense. Like I thought it was this
thing -- well, I mean they have as far as prior to the healing process, right. Prior to disclosing.
but post disclosing the abuse in 2012 and beginning that healing journey, they've evolved as far
as I remember more details about scenarios. As it goes along, you know, it evolves, details
get added to.

Of course Jordan Chandler managed to prove a few sentence later that MJ was far from being
overwhelming, powerful as he said this, which was not the scripted version of MJ but his own
real experience with him:

"Because he's an adult, he's overwhelming, he's famous, he's powerful."
"Were you in awe of him? Do you know what I mean by awe?"
"No."
"In awe of somebody means that you look up to them like they're almost a god, or
something like that."
"No. Actually when our relationship got closer and closer I thought less of that. Like most
people think that, wow, he's great, because he can dance and sing. But you know, he's just like, a regular person."

And let's not talk about how putting Mark Quindoy's story into his "evolving" tale has nothing to do
with any kind of "healing process", nor does putting some *******-Gutierrez BS about Charlie Michaels and Norma Staikos.

Such phoneys.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Do you have a link to this document, please? I can't find it on dailymichael.

@redfrog

BTW as you can tell I didn't scan the whole 264 pages. I posted the emails and deposition excerpts. There are a few other things we used in the article -including the email exchange between lawyers. They are all from the same declaration but those are stuff that we copied one page/one part and used in the blog post. Not everything was interesting and most of the stuff were sealed. There is a page here and there that we scanned and shared among ourselves to write the article. Some were included in the article and some weren't.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

The paragraph I underlined speaks for itself. We actually already figured this before but this looks like a confirmation that this is Wade's real problem. He got burnt out from the entertainment industry and needs out.

But he wanted to be an international superstar, you know. And he had to cancel a bunch of projects because he realized he was abused. :rollin:


Meanwhile I noticed that Robson filed two different versions of Francia's shower story and I'm absolutely sure he doesn't give a ****
This story is soo Gutierrez, the same ridiculous implausible, childish tale his books is full of.

Did she enter the bathroom because she wanted to see whether MJ left the water running
or
she entered because she heard laughter and playing sounds? She can't have it both ways.

Did she just believe she saw a smaller figure, without naming who she believed it was, and that's it
or
she saw MJ and Robson naked with MJ rubbing Robson and Robson's head pressed against MJ's stomach? Quite a difference.

Suplemental statement filed in Apr 2015

http://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MJcase-signed.pdf

Motion to amend third complaint filed in Sept 2016

https://www.scribd.com/document/324151013/Wade-Robson-Motion-To-Amend-Complaint

Also interesting that this allegation is not in his complaint, and Francia was not questioned about this
during the trial either:

Enter his room and see them naked from the waist up? Where can you find such a thing?
Gutierrez's book, of course, except there it's Orietta Murdoch not Francia who
does and sees this, who herself never claimed to do and see such a thing in fact
she specifically told Dimond that she never saw MJ being inappropriate with any child.
It's just another piece of fiction Gutierrez supplied to Francia.
That she knocked and MJ didn't answer and she heard music were also elements
of Francia's ever changing shower story.

Page 141

One day, Orietta saw something she shouldn't have.
"One night, the apartment door was open. I knocked, but nobody answered.
the music was loud so I said Michael? Michael? and again nobody answered. At
the end of the passage was Michael's room. the door to the bedroom was
open and I found him sitting on a chair with Wade. they were nude from
the waist up, the rest of the their bodies covered by sheets. I was startled at
what I saw. Michael didn't see me. So I said loudly Michael! He came to the door
closing it very firmly. He asked me what I was doing there and wanted to know
how I had entered. I told him that the door was open. He explained that it
was probably his private cook that left the door open as they had asked for
some food earlier. Then I left. I didn't mention this to anyone in the office."

 

[Lil]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

The paragraph I underlined speaks for itself. We actually already figured this before but this looks like a confirmation that this is Wade's real problem. He got burnt out from the entertainment industry and needs out. As you can see that's also what this guy advised to these burnt out Hollywood people: get out of the business! Only Wade decided he is not gonna leave without a couple of million dollars on his bank account to secure his and his family's "peaceful", "spiritual" life in the future without ever having to work again (I thought "all you need is an apple" LOL). Enter false child sex abuse allegations based on which those millions of dollars could be made.

I also still believe that he somehow holds Michael responsible for him even being (successful) in this industry in the first place. Of course he and his mother already pursued a career in dance before they ever met, but Michael created the opportunities for him to build that career - helping them move to the USA, signing him on his label and encouraging him and foreseeing great things for him in the future.
I listened to a radio program with 3T & Prince a while ago, and they (3T) talked about how they never felt like what they did was good enough, even when they were really successful, because they compared themselves to Michael. They were talking about how they really had to learn to let that go, because nobody can compete with him anyway. But they definitely felt the need to be the absolute best, and it made them work their butt off and still not be satisfied.
Anyway, it made me think of Wade and his whole prophecy story. It seems like he's set the bar high for himself and he had/has a hard time not measuring up & kind of crumbling under the pressure. Now he wants to be free of all of that - which requires money - and he resents Michael for the way his life panned out so far. That combination is why I think he feels he's entitled to Michael's money - "it's time for me to get mine!"

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I agree that Wade's motives are very clear, but his methods seem desperately naive, somehow. He's spent so much time 'in his own mind', that he seems to have forgotten about the real world altogether. It seems to me that he has dedicated all his resources to 'weaving a story', in the way that a film maker would. He's set out all the characters, a timeline, the settings, the 'narrative'....but none of the supporting facts. And when the Estate atty's ask for all of his relevant documents, he largely ignores the request, as if it doesn't matter...because he's already given them 'the story', right? He seems to know very little about what the facts actually are, hence the copious requests to his mother. And he seems to have written his own ending to this story...but the plot isn't working out. I guess he's used to being writer and director and probably lead man, but now the estate atty's seem to be directing, and they are shredding his script. I can't see how this can end other than that Wade's greatest 'creation' becomes his greatest failure of all.

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I do not believe there is nothing mentally ill about Wade. he is just a money lying, low life, who is trying to make money now that Mike is gone. I am sure he went to a doctor and ACT like he has a problem (sorry but people can fake this for doctors). This is nothing new either.

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

But he wanted to be an international superstar, you know. And he had to cancel a bunch of projects because he realized he was abused. :rollin:


Meanwhile I noticed that Robson filed two different versions of Francia's shower story and I'm absolutely sure he doesn't give a ****
This story is soo Gutierrez, the same ridiculous implausible, childish tale his books is full of.

Did she enter the bathroom because she wanted to see whether MJ left the water running
or
she entered because she heard laughter and playing sounds? She can't have it both ways.

Did she just believe she saw a smaller figure, without naming who she believed it was, and that's it
or
she saw MJ and Robson naked with MJ rubbing Robson and Robson's head pressed against MJ's stomach? Quite a difference.

Suplemental statement filed in Apr 2015

http://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MJcase-signed.pdf

Motion to amend third complaint filed in Sept 2016

https://www.scribd.com/document/324151013/Wade-Robson-Motion-To-Amend-Complaint

Also interesting that this allegation is not in his complaint, and Francia was not questioned about this
during the trial either:

Enter his room and see them naked from the waist up? Where can you find such a thing?
Gutierrez's book, of course, except there it's Orietta Murdoch not Francia who
does and sees this, who herself never claimed to do and see such a thing in fact
she specifically told Dimond that she never saw MJ being inappropriate with any child.
It's just another piece of fiction Gutierrez supplied to Francia.
That she knocked and MJ didn't answer and she heard music were also elements
of Francia's ever changing shower story.

Page 141

I agree. And if MJ was an abuser, why would he give anyone a KEY to his room? That is like saying a Thief who goes and rob banks gave a key to his/her room to someone to go into anytime (unless that person is doing the crimes as well) and where the stolen money is located. That does NOT happen.

 

[KOPV]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I'll just say this, it is not difficult to have a therapist state you are emotionally unstable.. Going to a therapist alone at the very least hints to 'issues', thus you tell a therapist what you feel and mention reactions you have to those feelings.. sh** any of us can be 'unstable' we're humans with emotions..

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I'll just say this, it is not difficult to have a therapist state you are emotionally unstable.. Going to a therapist alone at the very least hints to 'issues', thus you tell a therapist what you feel and mention reactions you have to those feelings.. sh** any of us can be 'unstable' we're humans with emotions..

You hit it in the head i agree.

 

[Doggone]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I'm literally disgusted by the made up stories. I wonder how much she is getting paid to make up these things?

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I do think Wade has sociopathic tendencies. He comes across in his depositions and interviews as detached and emotionless and I don't doubt for a minute that he could fool a therapist. Especially if said therapist was only too willing to accept it as truth. By the nature of their work some are only too willing to see what they expect to see.

I do think the pressure to succeed and be great was put on by Joy. Michael I think encouraged him because that's what Wade wanted, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't see some of Joe in Joy's approach to her son. She had him on a tight schedule at a very young age and was pushing him to be a success. He was a choreographer by 14 or so I believe. That's very young. I don't doubt that MJ did see some of himself in Wade. Unfortunately Wade didn't have MJ's personality and heart.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I'm literally disgusted by the made up stories. I wonder how much she is getting paid to make up these things?

Many people made up stories about Mj. Who are you talking about? Joy?


Does anyone think that the companies should sue Robson/SAfechuck for defamation?
The evidence against them is so overwhelming and winning against them in court could help clear MJ's name.
The Estate could expose Gutierrez's role in creating Safechuck's and Francia's and Chandler's bogus stories too.

But of course there's the chance that they would get rabid haters on the jury and the media
would use it to drag MJ of course.

I would hate to see these cases end with headlines that they were dismissed due to statute of limitations.
Robson/Safechuck should be punished for all their lies.


What do you think? Would be it good or bad if the companies sued?

 

[KOPV]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

It's crazy how many allegations against MJ have brought up and brought to light with such 'legitimacy' (as in taken seriously and reported publically) without ANY ANY ANY DNA evidence through multiple decades, multiple raids, millions spent.. No substantial evidence, just word...

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

It's crazy how many allegations against MJ have brought up and brought to light with such 'legitimacy' (as in taken seriously and reported publically) without ANY ANY ANY DNA evidence through multiple decades, multiple raids, millions spent.. No substantial evidence, just word...

Not only that but there is not a single document or recorded comment, interview, phone call where MJ ever expressed attraction toward
boys. If you listen to Sandusky when Bob costa asked him whether he was sexually attracted to young boys he didn't give a straight answer.
How difficult is that question for someone who is NOT attracted to boys?
Everyone but a pedo would have replied hell no, of course not absolutely not something like that.

Now compare that to when MJ was asked did you ever sexually engage with this or any other boy?
MJ said I'm not even interested in that. And it was nuts.

Clearly the whole idea was so beyond absurd to him, not only because he would not violate anyone but because
he was absolutely not attracted to males of any age.

Serial boy molesters however are obsessed with being attracted to boys, it's on their mind all the time
and no way someone as scrutinized as MJ was would have exposed his true feelings in a lyrics, note, letter,
email, phone call, book. But all we have is totally innocent phone calls with Ryan White and Megan Stein
and a phone call where MJ is talking about loving women. Notes where he expressed attraction toward Lisa
lyrics where he is singing about loving women.

There is simply nothing in his history which shows he had boys on his mind.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

See how a lie can spread so fast you can't even get the truth out so sad but this is the world we live in. From day one this case has been about nothing but lies stories on top of stories and now we see what Wade has really been doing he still continue to lie Now look like Joy knew what was going on and did nothinh. How can you say postive things about a person and then watch as your son try to destroy this person a person who have help your family. Michael was just to kind heart and he couldn't say no

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Robson filed his opposition to the Motion to Compel.

01/20/2017 Opposition (TO MTN TO COMPEL ) Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff

Do you plan to get this document?

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Do you plan to get this document?

I'm waiting to see if Finaldi will do a press release with document attached. They love that and we never needed to get their documents due to that. If not, we might or we can just wait for the hearing which is only a few weeks ahead.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

That true.

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

It's crazy how many allegations against MJ have brought up and brought to light with such 'legitimacy' (as in taken seriously and reported publically) without ANY ANY ANY DNA evidence through multiple decades, multiple raids, millions spent.. No substantial evidence, just word...

Yep.
No evidence (because there is none).
Just words & alternative facts. :/

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Yep.
No evidence (because there is none).
Just words & alternative facts. :/

You are right. That why i find it hard to believe that these cases have gotting this far it all basic on lies no proof at all.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

01/26/2017 Brief (REPLY BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MTN TO COMPEL ) Filed by Attorney for Defendant

01/26/2017 Objection Document Filed (EVIDENTIARY OBJ AND REQUEST TO STRIKE PORTIONS OF DECL OF VINCE W. FINALDI ) Filed by Attorney for Defendant

01/26/2017 Declaration (SUPPL DECL OF JONATHAN P. STEINSAPIR ) Filed by Attorney for Defendant

^Thank you. Is it unusual to ask for a portion of a declaration by an attorney to be 'struck' (out)? It seems an odd request. I wonder what Finaldi has said in his declaration. Sounds as if it may be more 'histrionics' of the outrageous kind...maybe hoping for more press headline coverage like he got for 'most sophisticated public child sex abuse ring'. In which case, I wonder why no press seem to be reporting his declaration? The objections seem to have been submitted on the same day as the reply, which is very quick!

Edit: I found this explanation of the use of a 'motion to strike':

A "motion to strike" is not used to REFUTE anything; it's used to ask the court not to consider material that's not ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE. It's pretty much the same as objecting to questions asked a witness testifying in court.

and this:
A motion to strike is a way for one party to let the court know she believes that all or part of a pleading or testimony of the opposing party is insufficient, immaterial, redundant, impertinent, or even scandalous. This motion means the party filing it wants the irrelevant or scandalous testimony or pleading to be stricken. The party filing the motion is requesting that the judge remove part or all of a pleading or testimony of the opposing party.


http://www.wisegeek.org/what-does-a-motion-to-strike-mean.htm

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I guess leeches like to stick together.

Mayte is very unpopular in the Prince fan community. She's written tell-all books (unpublished, but the intention was there) and recently sold a load of Prince related memorabilia on eBay for extortionate prices. Sound familiar?

That's too bad. I've only seen her in one episode of the Ex-Wife show that Nicole Murphy starred in, and I guess their Oprah interview. I felt sorry for her. She seemed like she was still madly in love with Prince.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

Mother of Sandusky victim vs. Joy Robson.

Just a reminder of how cynical it is what the Robsons, Safechucks, Jane Doe and their
scum lawyers are doing.

vs.

Sandusky victim vs. Wade Robson

vs.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

LET IT BE LET IT BE From day one these cases have been build on nothing but lies when will it end. Every lie that Wade and his lawyers have told has been expose copy and paste changing their stories over and over again how long must this last. The truth have been reveal. So on Feb 2 2017 will this nightmare end or will it continue? Enough is Enough there is no where else to go with theses cases.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

LET IT BE LET IT BE From day one these cases have been build on nothing but lies when will it end. Every lie that Wade and his lawyers have told has been expose copy and paste changing their stories over and over again how long must this last. The truth have been reveal. So on Feb 2 2017 will this nightmare end or will it continue? Enough is Enough there is no where else to go with theses cases.

It won't end. 'That hearing is only about he motion to compel I just hope the judge will have to guts to sanction Robson.
That would be difficult for the media to spin.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Sexual abuse claims against MJ Estate (Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe)

I hope the Judge can see that this is just a waste of time it going backward and forward with no end insight.

 

[Annita]

Ivy ‏@Ivy_4MJ · 2 Std.vor 2 Stunden

Hearing today on Robson motion to compel as well as Jane Doe lawsuit. We'll see if there will be news today or will have to wait for ruling