[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

'Proof of childhood sexual abuse, trauma and threats will be presented by direct evidence, corroborating evidence and evidence of ...intent and plan'.

Yeah right, now that MJ is not here to present his version of the same story. what a joke!

These people should just get jobs.

Seriously, they are trying to use MJ generosity against him as some sort of sinister "modis operandi". so MJ giving gifts and inviting kids to Nevy is now treated by these hawkers as grooming. How pathetic can these clowns be?

If that is the case, then MJ groomed everyone he came into contact with during his life, including his siblings, nephews and even parents since they all received at some point expensive gifts from MJ and were treated to extravagant lifestyle.

Really, even MJ donation to charity was also some grooming. not to mention his singling "heal the world" and "we are the world".

How sick can these people get? all of this for money?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So basically their argument is that MJ manipulated Safechuck into believing that their alleged relationship was consensual and loving. Moreover MJ also threatened him by telling him that if anyone would discover the alleged abuse "their futures would be over". According to the argument of his lawyers this is a basis for equitable estoppel because the reason why Safechuck was not able to come forward with these allegations earlier and "connect the dots" that he's been a victim of abuse is this manipulation.

They say that the Estate's earlier arguments are all invalid. For example, the Estate argued, as we saw earlier that what Safechuck claims is not a case of equitable estoppel but delayed discovery, but this motion tries to refute that argument saying that the Estate misrepresented the precedent case. Or the Estate said earlier that according to precedent cases equitable estoppel can only be applied based on something that the Estate executors would have done to prevent Safechuck from filing within those 60 days limit of PC 9103. Now Safechuck cites a number of cases where equitable estoppel was invoked based on the deceased defendant's actions. (We would have to further look into those precedent cases to see how relevant they are here, I guess.)

Based on simple layperson logic though I still don't get how and why equitable estoppel should be applied here. I get it that the Judge is obliged to accept whatever Safechuck says as true. So if he says (and they can also get a therapist support that claim) that he only recently "connected the dots" about his abuse after seeing Robson then the Judge would have to accept that as true. Although I have to say that there is also an element of "reasonability" that would have to be considered. How reasonable is it to accept that after 1993 and 2005 he would only recently "connect the dots" about abuse? What was it in Robson's claims that made him connect the dots about things he could not connect the dots in 2005? What made Robson a bigger trigger than 1993 or 2005, the whole media frenzy and everything? The promise of $$$ it seems...

But even accepting that claim, he still could have filed within the 60 days limitations of PC 9103 and he missed that. But Safechuck appears to argue that all that is (as well as any other statutes) is irrelevant because equitable estoppel is not dependent on any such statutes. I think if the Judge accepts this argument then this will make a dangerous precedent with that all statutes in child abuse allegation cases will go out the window. I mean then everyone and their mother can claim that they only recently connected the dots about someone who allegedly molested them 50 years ago and died 20 years ago and they would all be granted equitable estoppel. IMO this would be a very dangerous precedent.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

ETA: Also we have a civil case number for Safechuck: BC545264

So they filed a civil lawsuit for him as well.

Thanks for pointing it out. I'll check it over the weekend and post any available documents.

ps : civil case documents can be available at the online system. probate documents aren't.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

but if he told his mother in 05 he had been abused and that Michael was a bad man how could he not connect the dots?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Now Safechuck cites a number of cases where equitable estoppel was invoked based on the deceased defendant's actions. (We would have to further look into those precedent cases to see how relevant they are here, I guess.)

I'm also failing to see how equitable estopel will apply here. if they want to use MJ alleged actions, they have to prove that MJ did something that prevented him from making claims while MJ was alive. Merely saying that MJ threatened him is not good enough.

interestingly, starbucks is claiming that he only managed "to connect the dots" when he became aware of robson claims, which were filed long after MJ passed. if that is the case, how is that MJ doing?
 
Here is that precedent case the Estate cited and now Safechuck said they misrepresented it. To me as a layperson it does not seem misrepresented. This is what it says about equitable estoppel:

4. Equitable estoppel.

 a. General principles.

 “It is well settled that a public entity may be estopped from asserting the limitations of the claims statute where its agents or employees have prevented or deterred the filing of a timely claim by some affirmative act.”  (John R., supra, 48 Cal.3d at p. 445, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948;  accord Christopher P., supra, 19 Cal.App.4th at p. 170, 23 Cal.Rptr.2d 353;  V.C., supra, 139 Cal.App.4th at p. 516, 43 Cal.Rptr.3d 103.)   Estoppel as a bar to a public entity's assertion of the defense of noncompliance arises when the plaintiff establishes by a preponderance of the evidence:  (1) the public entity was apprised of the facts, (2) it intended its conduct to be acted upon, (3) plaintiff was ignorant of the true state of facts, and (4) relied upon the conduct to his detriment.  (Christopher P., supra, at p. 170, 23 Cal.Rptr.2d 353.)

 Estoppel “most commonly results from misleading statements about the need for or advisability of a claim․” (John R., supra, 48 Cal.3d at p. 445, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948.)   Estoppel may also “be established by acts of intimidation or violence that are intended to prevent the filing of a claim.  (John R., supra, at p. 445[, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948].)   In John R., for example, the court found that the doctrine of equitable estoppel could be applied when a student failed to tell his parents about a teacher's sexual abuse because the teacher threatened to retaliate if he disclosed the incidents.  (Id. at pp. 445-446[, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948];  see also Doe v. Bakersfield City School Dist., supra, 136 Cal.App.4th at pp. 571-573[, 39 Cal.Rptr.3d 79] [undisputed evidence of teacher's threats and the plaintiff's fear, even into adulthood, supported application of the equitable estoppel doctrine];  Ortega v. Pajaro Valley Unified School Dist., supra, 64 Cal.App.4th at p. 1050[, 75 Cal.Rptr.2d 777] [teacher's continuous verbal threats and intimidating conduct, including driving by student's new school and filing a defamation action against her for reporting abuse to school officials, supported application of the equitable estoppel doctrine];   Christopher P., supra, at p. 173[, 23 Cal.Rptr.2d 353] [‘A directive by an authority figure to a child not to tell anyone of the molestation is a sufficient inducement of delay to invoke an estoppel’].)”   (V.C., supra, 139 Cal.App.4th at pp. 516-517, 43 Cal.Rptr.3d 103.)

 b. K.J. failed to allege facts supporting the application of equitable estoppel against the District.

 K.J. has not alleged any acts of violence or intimidation by Sutliff that were intended to deter her from presenting a tort claim to the District.  (John R., supra, 48 Cal.3d at p. 445, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948.)   Nor has K.J. alleged Sutliff made any misleading statements about the need for, or advisability of, a claim.  (Ibid.) In the absence of such allegations, K.J. has failed to plead a basis to estop the District from asserting her noncompliance with the claims statutes.

Here, K.J.'s theory is she felt dependency, loyalty, affection and friendship toward Sutliff, such that she did not even know she had been molested and victimized.   K.J.'s theory implicates the doctrine of delayed discovery, rather than equitable estoppel.

And here is delayed discovery:

5. The delayed discovery doctrine.

 a. General principles.

 Generally, a cause of action accrues “ ‘when, under the substantive law, the wrongful act is done,’ or the wrongful result occurs, and the consequent ‘liability arises.’ ”  (Norgart, supra, 21 Cal.4th at p. 397, 87 Cal.Rptr.2d 453, 981 P.2d 79.)   The “delayed discovery” doctrine modifies that rule and protects a plaintiff by postponing accrual of a cause of action until the plaintiff discovers, or has reason to discover, the cause of action.  (Ibid.) For purposes of that doctrine, “the plaintiff discovers the cause of action when he at least suspects a factual basis, as opposed to a legal theory, for its elements, even if he lacks knowledge thereof-when, simply put, he at least ‘suspects ․ that someone has done something wrong’ to him [citation], ‘wrong’ being used, not in any technical sense, but rather in accordance with its ‘lay understanding’ [citation].”  (Id. at pp. 397-398, 87 Cal.Rptr.2d 453, 981 P.2d 79, fn. omitted.)

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1452681.html

So even for delayed discovery Safechuck's claims will have to be that all these years he did not even suspect he was abused. That with 1993 and 2005 and everything going on with MJ. Alright. :smilerolleyes:
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

and that he didn't testify for Michael because he didn't want his mother know that he had been abused.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

and that he didn't testify for Michael because he didn't want his mother know that he had been abused.

Yep. That completely undercuts his own claim that MJ threatened him as the reason why he could not come forward when MJ was alive.

also, if he testified for MJ, he would have denied anything inappropriate by MJ. so from this aspect alone, his argument does not make sense. because that means he would have denied everything and his mother would still not have known anything.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yeah right, now that MJ is not here to present his version of the same story. what a joke!

These people should just get jobs.

Seriously, they are trying to use MJ generosity against him as some sort of sinister "modis operandi". so MJ giving gifts and inviting kids to Nevy is now treated by these hawkers as grooming. How pathetic can these clowns be?

If that is the case, then MJ groomed everyone he came into contact with during his life, including his siblings, nephews and even parents since they all received at some point expensive gifts from MJ and were treated to extravagant lifestyle.

Really, even MJ donation to charity was also some grooming. not to mention his singling "heal the world" and "we are the world".

How sick can these people get? all of this for money?

And that's what I find the most shockingly evil in these people. MJ did all that good for these people and this is what they do in return 20 years later? Unbelievable evilness and moral corruption. I feel sorry for their children.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Slightly off topic, if a person wants to get documents from the courts about any of MJ's cases does that person has to have an address inside America to do so?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

ETA: Also we have a civil case number for Safechuck: BC545264

So they filed a civil lawsuit for him as well.

Thanks for pointing it out. I'll check it over the weekend and post any available documents.

I checked, there's only notice of related cases document there and nothing else.

I think they just filed a civil lawsuit as a place holder. As we know IF they can succeed in their late probate claim, Estate has the option of accepting or denying the claim. Estate have already said they would deny the claim. When a probate claim is denied the next option is either to drop it or file a civil lawsuit.

Slightly off topic, if a person wants to get documents from the courts about any of MJ's cases does that person has to have an address inside America to do so?

Depends on which case.

If you are talking about Robson civil case which is at LA Superior Court then the answer is yes. LA Superior Court has their own online system (civil case document images) which requires a credit card with a USA billing address. Only some cases available though - it should be a civil case, filed at the main courthouse and at least $25,000. Of course sealed, privileged documents aren't available in the system. Currently Robson civil, Safechuck civil, Quincy Jones and Tohme civil documents are available at that online system. MJ fan vs Cascio is also at that court but documents aren't available as it doesn't fit the above criteria.

MJ Estate probate is also at LA superior court but probate documents aren't available online - as matters of an Estate doesn't fit to the above criteria. The main way and perhaps only way to get probate documents is to make an in person request from the clerk's office. That's how the media get probate related documents. That's how I get the Estate accounting documents - friends in LA make the request. (I heard people tried to do mail in requests but had a hard time even getting a response)

The cases filed at district courts are available at Pacer system. These are mostly the copyright/trademark cases. Pacer also requires a credit card with a US billing address but there are some third party sites (such as RFC Express) that allow international membership - hence the possibility of a non US residents getting the files. Currently last photoshoots, chicago lawsuit, hologram lawsuit, victory tour photos are available in this system. So these would be accessible to non-usa residents through third party sites.

There's also appeal court, tax court etc. These make orders and/or final rulings openly available to anyone. However other filings require in person and/or mail in requests. (tax court seems to accept mail requests). But I have no idea if they respond to international requests.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I knew something was going on and now we know what happen on Nov 19th now Safechuck has file a lawsuit and want to say just like Wade equitable stopped should apply to him too but one problem he told his mom he was abuse by Michael in 2005 and that he was a bad man so what was his reasons for not filing him claim on time one can say it did not happen then or he want to say that he was afraid to come forward because Michael was still alive so he made try to use that a the reason why he did not file. If Safechuck mom knew why she did not do anything about it?


It safe to say equitable stopped does not help Safechuck either.


Respect77 i hope the judge does not take this as true because you are right it would be dangerous .

These cases have really gone to far and with the help of RO with putting out all these lies without proof to back them up is only helping Wade and James case.


Dec 16th this judge has a huge decision to make all of these new happening i can't wait to hear how he explain all of this what he will allow or not allow will be the question.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I checked, there's only notice of related cases document there and nothing else.

I think they just filed a civil lawsuit as a place holder. As we know IF they can succeed in their late probate claim, Estate has the option of accepting or denying the claim. Estate have already said they would deny the claim. When a probate claim is denied the next option is either to drop it or file a civil lawsuit.

Ivy is it safe to say we might be looking at a civil lawsuit also for Safechuck because we know the Estate is going to denying the late probate claim anyway so are we looking at this same pattern again delay and discovery?

Could there also be a decision about this on Dec 16th ?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This is just really to much.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Overall, it is clear that Wade's lawyer is just trying to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. Obviously nothing will stick.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And that's what I find the most shockingly evil in these people. MJ did all that good for these people and this is what they do in return 20 years later? Unbelievable evilness and moral corruption. I feel sorry for their children.

You are not alone there respect77 if i had that one chance to meet Michael Jackson it would have been in honor do these ppls know how luck they were just to be in his present that alone was something special a chance of a lifetime he did not have to do what he did for them but he did with no question ask because he love helping ppls. In the bold my feeling too.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Overall, it is clear that Wade's lawyer is just trying to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. Obviously nothing will stick.

Right so it is time to close up camp and move on.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yep. That completely undercuts his own claim that MJ threatened him as the reason why he could not come forward when MJ was alive.

also, if he testified for MJ, he would have denied anything inapprjopriate by MJ. so from this aspect alone, his argument does not make sense. because that means he would have denied everything and his mother would still not have known anything.
I personally find it so bizarre that both Robson and Safechuck contradict themselves constantly. Everybody on this forum is smart enough to notice it and point out discrepancies immediately.
What is wrong with their lawyers???
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy is it safe to say we might be looking at a civil lawsuit also for Safechuck because we know the Estate is going to denying the late probate claim anyway so are we looking at this same pattern again delay and discovery?

Could there also be a decision about this on Dec 16th ?

first of all I wouldn't think about 5-10 steps forward. There will be a civil lawsuit ONLY IF the judge allows the probate claim to go forward. Probate claim is just being heard so we don't know what would happen in that regard. So no need to worry or act like this is a lost cause. We'll need to wait and see.

As for every motion, it's possible the judge make a ruling on the spot and/or take time for consideration to make a decision later and/or require more filings& hearings. In other words all of them are possible. Again we don't know what'll happen. We'll need to wait and see.

PS: Are you aware of the forum's multi-quote function?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I did a quick glance of the document. Safechuck claims he met MJ when he was 8, abuse started at 10 and ended when he was 14.

So he's claiming 2 years of grooming and brainwashing before any abuse.

I think this is especially interesting as Wade claimed the abuse happened almost from day one. That's not the typical behavior of pedophiles who, as I've seen, work extremely strategically and methodically to achieve their "goal." It's sick but this would all be a bit more believable if they stuck to one story or pattern.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think this is especially interesting as Wade claimed the abuse happened almost from day one. That's not the typical behavior of pedophiles who, as I've seen, work extremely strategically and methodically to achieve their "goal." It's sick but this would all be a bit more believable if they stuck to one story or pattern.

That's exactly why I posted that. To see patterns - if any.

This would make Chandler, Arvizo and Safechuck claiming they knew Michael for 2-3 yrs before any abuse. Wade claims abuse happened on the second night. Respect77 had posted before quotes from the book Wade himself recommended which talked about getting to know the victim, grooming etc before any attempt. So Wade is actually claiming opposite of everyone and everything known. I guess we'll see if he claims he was groomed over international phone calls :p

Also @respect77 please enlighten me - did either Chandler or Arvizo claimed to be "brainwashed" to the point they didn't realize the alleged abuse? To me it feels like while some of Chandler/ Arvizo claims could be classified as "grooming", I don't feel like they ever claimed a "master brain washer" like Robson or Safechuck?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think this is especially interesting as Wade claimed the abuse happened almost from day one. That's not the typical behavior of pedophiles who, as I've seen, work extremely strategically and methodically to achieve their "goal." It's sick but this would all be a bit more believable if they stuck to one story or pattern.

Robson and starbuck lawyers are trying to use MJ generosity against him, claiming all the gifts and exposure to lavish lifestyle were grooming. They are just stealing a page out of Sneddon's playbook who claimed in 2005 that MJ used Nevy as a grooming sanctuary, to lure kids with his immense wealth so he could molest them later. The defense obviously refuted this nonsense with their own evidence.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That's exactly why I posted that. To see patterns - if any.
This would make Chandler, Arvizo and Safechuck claiming they knew Michael for 2-3 yrs before any abuse. Wade claims abuse happened on the second night. Respect77 had posted before quotes from the book Wade himself recommended which talked about getting to know the victim, grooming etc before any attempt. So Wade is actually claiming opposite of everyone and everything known. I guess we'll see if he claims he was groomed over international phone calls :p

The so called pattern will not work since those allegations of child abuse were never proven in the first place. in the first instance, MJ completely denied those charges despite settling the case. in the second instance, the accuser was proven liar in the court of law, resulting in MJ subsequent acquittal.

Also @respect77 please enlighten me - did either Chandler or Arvizo claimed to be "brainwashed" to the point they didn't realize the alleged abuse? To me it feels like while some of Chandler/ Arvizo claims could be classified as "grooming", I don't feel like they ever claimed a "master brain washer" like Robson or Safechuck?

In the previous cases, they, especially the azviros characterized MJ as a manipulator or something along that line. that also were not proven.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So Wade is actually claiming opposite of everyone and everything known. I guess we'll see if he claims he was groomed over international phone calls :p

He can't really claim that since from Joy's testimony in 2005 it seems they did not really have much contact before that:

4 Q. Do you remember the first time you visited

5 Neverland?

6 A. Yes. It was in January of 1990.

7 Q. And how did you end up visiting Neverland?

8 A. When we were here, we called around, trying

9 to find Michael again. He had told us if we

10 returned to the United States to contact him. So we

11 called around, and we eventually were put onto his

12 personal assistant, which at that time was Norma

13 Stakos, and they called Michael.

14 He remembered us, and said he would like to

15 see us again. So we met him at a recording studio

16 where he was working at the time.

(I wish MJ had not have such a good heart and had left them rot in Australia instead of giving them a helping hand and let James rot in Simi Valley instead of taking him on tour and being generous to his family. Some people just do not deserve generousity.)

If they had to find him through Norma Staikos then it does not seem like they had a continuous relationship since first meeting him in 1987 in Australia. Also her saying "he remembered us" suggests they did not have a regular contact with him before that.

So basically the claim is that they once met him in Australia in 1987, then seeked him out three years later while they were on vacation in the US and MJ started to molest Wade right away. Without any kind of deeper knowledge about the family, the kid or anything. But in other cases he spends years with "grooming". :smilerolleyes:



Also @respect77 please enlighten me - did either Chandler or Arvizo claimed to be "brainwashed" to the point they didn't realize the alleged abuse? To me it feels like while some of Chandler/ Arvizo claims could be classified as "grooming", I don't feel like they ever claimed a "master brain washer" like Robson or Safechuck?

In the Chandler allegations there is this aspect of them being "in love" pushed by Evan (which is where I think Safechuck took it from). However Jordan himself never claimed that and when Dr. Gardner asked him about ever having homosexual feelings and attractions he says he never did. Jordan claimed he went along with it because he was under MJ's spell, however at another time in the interview he says he was not in awe of MJ at all, to him he was "just like a regular person". So they did try to explain some things with some kind of brainwash aspect, but 1) they contradicted themselves on it, 2) it wasn't a much emphasized element of their allegations and they did not claim Jordan was still believing such stuff since they did not need it like Robson and Safechuck do because of the statutes. As for Arvizo, their claim is that MJ gave him alcohol to drink and that's how he got Gavin to participate in sexual acts. Oh, and then there was the "if man do not masturbate they go crazy" stuff which then turned out was told to Gavin by his grantmother rather than MJ. No "we are in love and no one else would understand it" kind of manipulation was allaged in the Arvizo case.

Dec 16th this judge has a huge decision to make all of these new happening i can't wait to hear how he explain all of this what he will allow or not allow will be the question.

I would not pin that much hope on Decemeber 16. Ivy said December 16 is the deadline for Wade to rework his complaint and if they file it on that day or shortly before, the Judge will need more time to go through it, the Estate will need time to write another demurrer etc. There will not be any decisions made about Wade's lawsuit that day IMO. I don't know about the probate case. Maybe we will get some decision about that, but I would not be surprised if we did not. Currently they are doing discovery, there will be papers filed regarding that, then oppositions by the Estate etc. I think it may go on for some time.

As for Safechuck, they filed this current motion that we discussed in the last couple of post, on December 3. Again, the Estate will need time to answer, maybe they will be able to do that until December 16, maybe not, but I doubt there will be some big decision about it on December 16.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Trying to figure out these precedent cases that Safechuck brings in this motion saying they support his argument that action by the deceased (rather than just the executors of the Estate) may invoke equitable estoppel. It's true that actions by by the deceased may invoke equitable estoppel, but based on these precedents those actions are always relevant to why the plaintiff did not and could not act within statutes. The cases cited are typically cases where the deceased had lied or mislead the plaintiff about some legal matter - for example told him or her that he or she should not file a claim within statutes because he or she would get money from the Estate anyway etc. However in our case we have a guy who says that something MJ allegedly told him 20-25 years ago is the reason why he could not sue within statutes of limitations 20-25 years later.

When I go through those cases cited by Safechuck as precedents I notice that the word "reasonanbly" always pops up in them. On page 6 of the motion:

"the claimant reasonablyrelied upon his parents' false assurences of repayment, and equitable estoppel therefore applied"

"Fraudulent concealment is an equitable doctrine whereby "the defendant's fraud in concealing a cause of action against him tolls the applicable statute of limitations, but only for that period during which the claim is undiscovered by plaintiff or until such time as plaintiff, by the exercise of reasonable diligence, should have discovered it."

"the culpable defendant should be estopped from profiting by his own wrong to the extent that it hindered an otherwise diligent plaintiff in discovering his cause of action".

I know that what is reasonable can be very subjective. But for the life of me I cannot imagine how Safechuck's story can be deemed reasonable - or as him exercising reasonable diligence in order to file within statutes of limitations? How when MJ went through a public trial in 2005 and Safechuck refused to testify? How with everything going on around MJ, the media craze, the trial, we still should reasonably accept his claim that until seeing Robson on TV and his lawsuit for $$$ he did not notice the illicit nature of alleged sexual abuse and did not connect the dots? I know crazier things have happened in US court, but I'm sorry this story is not reasonable at all.

Like I said earlier besides what Safechuck replies to the most interesting stuff in this motion what he does NOT reply to. Namely that point by the Estate where they point out that according to Safechuck's own complaint he told his mother in 2005 about the alleged abuse and that MJ "was a bad man". And that he did not want to testify because he did not want his mother to know. From Estate motion:

vq0emq.jpg



This contradicts this recent narrative that they have in this motion which is:

sffhug.jpg


So which one is it?

I also find the precedent cases interesting:

2lmt3f6.jpg


Another:

2zxshu1.jpg


I find it interesting because Safechuck argues that the 60 days limitations in Probate Code 9103 do not apply here. Apparently their argument is that equitable estoppel gives you unlimited time to sue regardless of any statutes, so any statute in any relevant law does not matter any more. But it does not seem like that based on the above precedents. In the second one initially the plaintiff would have had one year to sue. He missed that but when he discovered his injury and that he had been mislead by the other doctor and the defendant he did file within the time limit given by the original laws. Ie. within one year after the date of discovery. And that is why he was given estoppel! "Plaintiff' claim was timely because it had been filed within one-year of this date of discovery".

Now translating that to this case. In this case Safechuck claims he discovered his abuse/injury from abuse when seeing Robson's lawsuit in May 2013. And he DID have a chance to legally file within statutes after that - that 60 days given in Probate Code 9103. He missed that. So I really do not see why he should be given yet another chance. What stopped him from filing within those 60 days? Michael was dead so he could not do anything. The Estate did not do anything to him either (they did not even know about his upcoming complaint at the time). So why exactly should he be entitled to estoppel here even if someone wants to believe his whole BS about not connecting the dots until seeing Robson? I don't get it.

Safechuck's motion claims:

2z9b5n6.jpg


"Thus the fact that Safechuck was unable to reach this realization until after the deadline for filing a claim under Probate Code 9103 and CCP 366.2 had passed..."

But he claims he made that realization when he saw Robson and went into therapy on May 20, 2013. From then he would have had 60 days to file under PC 9103. Moreover he claims he went to Robson's lawyers in September 2013. Yet another eight months passed until they filed a lawsuit in May 2014. So by all measures he missed the 60 days limit in PC 9103 who knows why but it had nothing to do with anything MJ or the Estate did to him to not to realize he had been abused because even after his alleged realization he did not file within 60 days and missed the statutes. By his own story he realized that in May 2013 when he saw Robson. So the claim that he was unable to file a claim under PC 9103 is not true even by his own story and I can't see how any vitriolic language by his lawyers in these motions changes that. PC 9103 is there exactly to give plaintiff an opportunity to file within 60 days of discovering the facts giving arise to their claim. He claims he discovered those facts some time in May 2013. So he should have filed until July 2013. He missed that. Even if we say he only discovered all facts giving arise to his claim when he met Robson's lawyers in September 2013 (and by that time without any doubt he should have reasonably discovered all alleged "facts") he still would have missed the 60 days limit since he filed only 8 months later in May 2014.

I feel like these lawyers are masters of twisting words and arguments (probably why Robson picked them), but when you look into those arguments you can notice how they are twisted.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I feel like these lawyers are masters of twisting words and arguments (probably why Robson picked them), but when you look into those arguments you can notice how they are twisted.

It's the same nonsense KJ lawyers pulled up in the AEG trial. Spinning things out of proportion for a cool Billion dollars. and they still lost though the case is currently under appeal. Even so, I suspect they won't get very far.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm also failing to see how equitable estopel will apply here. if they want to use MJ alleged actions, they have to prove that MJ did something that prevented him from making claims while MJ was alive. Merely saying that MJ threatened him is not good enough.

interestingly, starbucks is claiming that he only managed "to connect the dots" when he became aware of robson claims, which were filed long after MJ passed. if that is the case, how is that MJ doing?



My point exactly Safechuck told his mom in 2005 that Michael sexual abuse him and Michael was a bad man so he did not file nobody was holding his back and Wade he knew in 2012 but his reason was Michael told him in 1993 if he told they both will go to jail i do not see how it apply to either one of them. That why you have to be careful with your words it right there in black and white.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

These lawyers think they are masters of twist the words but in the end the true will prevail there is no way of getting around these statute of limitations not with what they are claiming as the reason why for not filing on time it is so clear they miss every deadline and now they want to use this 3 yr rule well that does not apply to them either it say you must file one year after the person death here Michael has been gone for 5 years another miss deadline.

It would shock me if the judge grant them equitable estopped without any proof to back up they claims as for the reasons why they could not file on time and like respect77 said limitations of sex abuse will go right out the window it will be open seasons because anybody can claim they were abuse 20-30 years ago and the statute of limitations will not apply.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I personally find it so bizarre that both Robson and Safechuck contradict themselves constantly. Everybody on this forum is smart enough to notice it and point out discrepancies immediately.
What is wrong with their lawyers???

You got that right what is they problem?


Note it really help to have the laws in this thread to help you understand what Wade and Safechuck lawyers are trying to do.
 
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