[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

respect77 said:
I think he does not claim he had pedophilic urges but he seems to claim he became concerned that he might get such urges.
No i'm not getting that, at least from wade's claim which is all we have.

I would look at my son and imagine him experiencing the sexual acts I did with Doe 1-
He's imagining his son being abused in the same way he, wade was, by an adult abuser. He's not imagining he's the one doing the abusing. I don't believe that in a lawyer drawn-up complaint would it have the suggestion that a plaintiff might very well become a pedophile. You'd be leaving open the danger of having the dcfs making regular home visits to monitor the situation. For me it's just clumsily worded and the whole issue of his son being the 'trigger' has left themselves open to horrible inferences which the estate has exploited but i don't think that wade's lawyers' intention was to claim wade/jimmy are potential pedos. Jmo.

But I do not believe it. I think for some odd reason this law firm thinks that it’s a good idea to drag their kids into it and to relate their discovery of abuse and/or the discovery of its harm to their kids.
Presumably a birth of a child is seen in the child abuse industry as a valid trigger for 'delayed discovery'. Does seem a little better than remembering a prophesy about being the next spielberg.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No i'm not getting that, at least from wade's claim which is all we have.

I was talking about Safechuck. And I quoted the Estate's demurrer which references Safechuck's claim by page when they write that. Could they have twisted it? Perhaps. But IMO he probably did say that. But if you read that sentence from the Estate's demurrer the claim is not that he has pedophilic urges but that he had concerns that he might get such urges. There is a difference. Although both are a BS story.

He's imagining his son being abused in the same way he, wade was, by an adult abuser. He's not imagining he's the one doing the abusing. I don't believe that in a lawyer drawn-up complaint would it have the suggestion that a plaintiff might very well become a pedophile. You'd be leaving open the danger of having the dcfs making regular home visits to monitor the situation. For me it's just clumsily worded and the whole issue of his son being the 'trigger' has left themselves open to horrible inferences which the estate has exploited but i don't think that wade's lawyers' intention was to claim wade/jimmy are potential pedos. Jmo.

And I don't say that their lawyer wanted to portray them as potential pedos. Of course not. I understand that. But whatever the intention was it still comes across as creepy. I undersant that Wade did not claim that he was imagining himself abusing his son. I never claimed that. But to me it's still weird and creepy why he would fantasize about such things - ie. imagining his son being in a sexual situation with an adult, whoever that adult is. And on top of that not equating it with abuse. Then what did he equate that with? Love? I think the story just makes him look creepy whatever the intention was.
Of course, I do not believe this story, nor Safechuck's. I know that they are just trying to establish a "trigger" by inventing this story.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This is why I don't understand why the judge hasn't thrown his claim straight out. He has stated that he was aware of the alleged abuse whilst Michael was alive and therefore could have sought 'justice' prior to now. It just proves that it's only money he is after and not any form of 'justice'.


Do the courts in the United States simply reject even the most absurd claim attempts? After what I know about the complaints against MJ and his Estate I know nothing is simply rejected. All this takes a long time. There was Billie Jean, who complained to be Michael's wife and Blankets mother. How long did it take until her case was dismissed? Even hearings were set. Michael Amir tried a creditor claim where long ago the deadlines had passed. It took two years until his lawsuit was dismissed.

What I find strange is that Meserau expended so much energy to discuss it as if the process takes place. Yes, he says, he hopes it will be thrown out. But he leaves it by this short sentence. Why does he not use the energy to argue that it has to be clear that this can not come to a trial and support the Estate in their argumentation. He even referred to the attorney from Chucksafe and Robson as a really reputable lawyer. I really think he has not even read the complaints and the demurrers from the Estate.
Instead Meserau argued almost as if the trial takes place and even supports fans in their attempts to launch that he is the lawyer.

I really find Meseraus in his statements strange.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do the courts in the United States simply reject even the most absurd claim attempts? After what I know about the complaints against MJ and his Estate I know nothing is simply rejected. All this takes a long time. There was Billie Jean, who complained to be Michael's wife and Blankets mother. How long did it take until her case was dismissed? Even hearings were set. Michael Amir tried a creditor claim where long ago the deadlines had passed. It took two years until his lawsuit was dismissed.

What I find strange is that Meserau expended so much energy to discuss it as if the process takes place. Yes, he says, he hopes it will be thrown out. But he leaves it by this short sentence. Why does he not use the energy to argue that it has to be clear that this can not come to a trial and support the Estate in their argumentation. He even referred to the attorney from Chucksafe and Robson as a really reputable lawyer. I really think he has not even read the complaints and the demurrers from the Estate.
Instead Meserau argued almost as if the trial takes place and even supports fans in their attempts to launch that he is the lawyer.

I really find Meseraus in his statements strange.

Annita This is what I find with our legal system. It seems they tend to follow a process which I guess they feel is in place to safeguard the rights of the individuals. That is why you see such foolishness going before the judge, and there are hearings & arguments which I feel is a waste of our money. It seems to me that there should be a prior filter before a case is even filed, you know like a prescreening.

About TMez, he seems to be a very ethical person, so he always talks highly of other counsels. He always say they are professionals and good lawyers or words to that effect. The other thing I find about him, is that he is tied to Randy and tends to come across as siding with the family vs the estate. I don't know if this is because he feels Randy is against the estate, so tends to see the actions of the estate in a particular way. Or, because he knows the way the family sees the estate, his statements are structured in such a way to appease the family? I don't know I was just wondering, because this is an intelligent man, but people are human. He never makes blanket statements against the estate though, but the way he phrases his comments gives me the impression of how he views them.

He feels that the estate lawyer screwed up with the Jordan case, which we all do; and due to this, his view of the attorney is still clouded. Therefore, he makes statements about how the attorney may do the same thing in this case due to their past history of settlement. I feel that Mez has not sat down with all the documents and reviewed them, which I think he should do since he is often asked to speak about the issues.

What I wish is that, when he talks on radio, he shows more clearly the inconsistencies of the parties statements and shows the illogical aspects of the claims/statements so that lay people, who usually listen to these broadcasts, can have a quick understanding of the quality of the case. We have gone over several of them here like Wade not knowing about an estate but seeking work from the estate, the statements of not knowing about the abuse, but at the same time saying he lived with pain all his life or words to that effect. It is good to spell out these things to the average listener, because some people love to say how someone got off due to a legal technicality. Someone like him should really show how bogus the claim appears to be as well as giving his legal perspective. He is the best spokeperson we have so far.
 
As for Mesereau praising Gradstein. I agree with it that he tends to praise opposing lawyers, but actually it's a fact that Gradstein is a high profile, highly successful lawyer. I have found this interview with him last week. It's from August, 2013: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/playgr...ano-pc?AID=CJSource&utm_source=CJ&PID=6147167

In this interview he does not mention Robson or Safechuck, he talks about a $100 million lawsuit he brought against Sirius XM on behalf of The Turtles. (Here is an article about that case: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/siriusxm-attacks-turtles-playing-lawsuit-648237 ) But look at the description:

“An exclusive interveiw with Henry Gradstein, Partner, Gradstein & Marzano P.C., a veteran of numerous high profile entertainment and intellectual property cases. Gradstein is representing The Turtles in their $100 million class action lawsuit against Sirius XM Radio.


A graduate of U.S.C. Law School where he served on the Law Review, Henry Gradstein is an AV-rated attorney with over 30 years of experience litigating and trying a wide variety of cases, including a top-ten jury verdict in California and numerous other multi-million dollar verdicts and settlements. Named by Los Angeles Magazine as a “Super Lawyer” for nine years, he has a proven track record litigating complex matters as lead trial counsel. He has extensive experience in all aspects of entertainment, intellectual property and complex business litigation.”

So Gradstein is indeed no slouch and I don't know why it's wrong from Mesereau to point that out. Never underestimate the opponent. I'm glad Mez doesn't.

Having said that, his history and description tells he’s clearly a copyright and business lawyer, so he’s a very odd choice of a lawyer for child abuse allegations. I wonder if Wade contacted child abuse lawyers before (remember there was about one year until he found Gradstein) but they saw the problems with his case and turned him down and it was only this lawyer willing to give it a try.

As a layperson I think the lawsuits and other documents he filed in this case are messy and all over the place. To me the Estate's doc seem a lot more legally sound - again that's just my impression as a layperson. But that does not necessarily mean he's a bad lawyer, it's just that these cases are bad.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It really doesn't mean much as how much money he has won from his previous case or being called super lawyer by LA mag. Panish, Shea & Boyle had history of winning 4.9 billion and one of them named as super layer, they still lost the case against AEG. Note, TMezz recommended P,S&B to KJ.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It really doesn't mean much as how much money he has won from his previous case or being called super lawyer by LA mag. Panish, Shea & Boyle had history of winning 4.9 billion and one of them named as super layer, they still lost the case against AEG. Note, TMezz recommended P,S&B to KJ.

And I didn't suggest it means he will win the case. I just say Mez is right to say he's got a great reputation. It's simply a fact that he does, so what should he have said? That he's a crap lawyer? It's stupid to underestimate an opponent anyway.

It's all the more telling about the case that despite of Gradstein being this great lawyer their arguments in their court documents still sound crap.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My reply was kind of side notice that he can be wrong and we shouldn't take his words like set on stone, and he can be wrong, and sometimes have his opinion clouded like Petra mentioned above.

You know what, TMezz also have a right not to say a thing. He is the only one that I have heard commenting opponent lawyers. I never heard Weitzman commenting Tohme lawyers skills, or any other case lawyers.
Like Annita already pointed out:"Instead Meserau argued almost as if the trial takes place and even supports fans in their attempts to launch that he is the lawyer." I too think he wishes that he would be called to handle the case.

I agree about Gradstein being curious choice of lawyer for molestation case. Nothing to do with entertainment, intellectual property and complex business litigation.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My reply was kind of side notice that he can be wrong and we shouldn't take his words like set on stone, and he can be wrong, and sometimes have his opinion clouded like Petra mentioned above.

No one said he cannot be wrong. (Eg. I think he is wrong about Sullivan's book.) But the point here is whether Gradstein is or isn't a lawyer with a great reputation. Mez is not wrong about him being a lawyer with a great reputation. That is a simple fact.

Like Annita already pointed out:"Instead Meserau argued almost as if the trial takes place and even supports fans in their attempts to launch that he is the lawyer." I too think he wishes that he would be called to handle the case.

He was ASKED whether he would do that. He replied to a question saying he would if he's asked under two conditions 1) Susan Yu would have to be hired as well, 2) no settlement at any point.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Go to www.linkedin.com and search for Henry Grandstein and his legal partner Maryann (surname I've forgotten) and their profiles will appear.

Oddly for such hotshot lawyers they don't have many 'connections' and Maryann doesn't have a picture accompanying hers.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My main piont in my post was not that Meserau said the opposite lawyer is a good lawyer. BTW I never heard he said something good about AEG lawyers or their arguments, he only praises Panish and Co and their arguments as even there is no chance they will loose the trial. He even said wrong things in interveiws about evidence,for example he knows there are mails from AEG with Murray.
Now he says in interviews there is a good chance for Kathrines appeal which in my humble opinion never is.


_____________
My main point in my post is that he argues as if trial will happen andI thinnk it`s not a good thing to say Estate lawyers are not able to handle the case and suggest he is the only one.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My main piont in my post was not that Meserau said the opposite lawyer is a goot lawyer. BTW I never heard he said someting good about AEG lawyers or their arguments

I don't know about that but I did hear him say that Zonen and the prosecutors in 2005 were great prosecutors. I have seen him praise personally Zonen's skills. This does not mean he agrees with them or that he thinks they were right. Of course not. We know what Mesereau thinks about these allegations. To me what he's saying with these praises is that: "the opposing lawyers were great, did their job great, they were highly skilled, passionate about the case etc. and still could not find a way to convict MJ because he's innocent". That's the point of praising the opposing lawyers IMO. And yes, maybe also praising a little bit himself as well with that by saying: "I faced great opponents and came out winning".

If you say the opposing lawyers were incompetent then people will blame the verdict on an incompetent prosecution rather than the fact Michael was innocent. So it's no good strategy to talk down on opposing lawyers.


My main point in my post is that he argues as if trial will happen.

On King Jordan radio people casually talk about different scenarios and of course they also play the "what if" game - ie. what if the trial happens. Yes, it would be great if Mesereau gave an in-depth analysis on what he thinks about the current developments in the case, ie. statues of limitations etc. (although he briefly noted he did not think it should go ahead) but that's also the responsibility of the people who ask him - Jordan and the callers. It's a fan radio and unfortunately these interviews are all over the place, not really focused and not really professional and most callers waste their opportunity on unimportant, irrelevant questions. It is what it is, but anyone can call, so if someone wants to ask his opinion about the statues they can.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My main piont in my post was not that Meserau said the opposite lawyer is a good lawyer. BTW I never heard he said something good about AEG lawyers or their arguments, he only praises Panish and Co and their arguments as even there is no chance they will loose the trial. He even said wrong things in interveiws about evidence,for example he knows there are mails from AEG with Murray.
Now he says in interviews there is a good chance for Kathrines appeal which in my humble opinion never is.


_____________
My main point in my post is that he argues as if trial will happen andI thinnk it`s not a good thing to say Estate lawyers are not able to handle the case and suggest he is the only one.

and why he even thinks if the case goes on trial (judge goes off the wall and allows it) Weitzman or other estate lawyers are going to handle it? Who knows if the estate are going to hire totally different law firm to handle the case, thus TMezz is speculating.

@Respect, the point is that he doesn't have to go around and give compliments or call them incompetent. He could be silent, wait and see what happens. I have my own opinion as to why TMezz is giving his opinion left and right, but I keep it to myself for now.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My main point in my post is that he argues as if trial will happen andI thinnk it`s not a good thing to say Estate lawyers are not able to handle the case and suggest he is the only one.

I see you added to this sentence, so let me answer to the second half of the sentence as well: the way I see it Mez did not suggest he was the only one who could handle the case. Where does that even come from? A caller asked him if he would take the case and he answered he would if asked (under the two conditions I mentioned). That was it. It's not like Mez is going around trying to push himself on the Estate to give him this case. He answered a question.

@Respect, the point is that he doesn't have to go around and give compliments or call them incompetent. He could be silent, wait and see what happens. I have my own opinion as to why TMezz is giving his opinion left and right, but I keep it to myself for now.


I do not find it extremely wise either that he openly attacks the Estate lawyers at this point. He should wait with that criticisim until a settlement happens IF it happens. On the other hand I have my reservations about the Estate lawyers as well and yes, I share some of Mez's opinion and concerns that they are chicken when it comes to defending MJ against these allegations. How many times was it some frustrating cop out answer that either Branca or Weitzman gave when asked about the allegations and not a real, strong defense? Mez would never do that. He always defends MJ with conviction. And that attitude is something I do not see in the Estate lawyers and as a result I can see where Mez is coming from with his worries. But I agree that it's probably not wise to publicly share those worries now.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Tom Sneddon was a very good lawyer as well, but when you are blinded by something be it hate or money you can't see past your nose.
 
respect77;4042836 said:
I see you added to this sentence, so let me answer to the second half of the sentence as well: the way I see it Mez did not suggest he was the only one who could handle the case. Where does that even come from?

He wrote Deborah Kunesh that he is supportive of a petition requesting the Estate to hire him as a lawyer.

From petiion:

As the people who have a vested personal and financial interest in the Estate of Michael Jackson we strongly urge you if you have not already done so hire Mr. Tom Mesereau to handle the pending trial of Mr. Wade Robson and Mr. Jimmy Safechuck vs. Michael Jackson and his Estate.

As the people who have a vested interest in safeguarding Michael Jackson’s legacy which includes his reputation we request the assignment of Mr. Mesereau who has experience in dealing with this matter and who has knowledge and experience with the accusers.

We strongly urge the Executors as a sign of good faith and a willingness to clear Michael Jackson of these charges and a desire to see a healthy Estate is handed to his children upon their majority, make any and all money and resources necessary available to Mr. Mesereau for the proper preparation to defend Michael Jackson and his Estate. We also ask that upon appointment Mr. Mesereau is given any assistance necessary by you the Estate Executors and Attorney, and all discovery


http://www.change.org/p/john-branca...n-yu-to-defend-michael-jackson-and-his-estate
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

First of all let me say that I'm all for hiring TMez for the case as a lawyer / consultant/ expert witness etc IF this goes to trial. But not now and also his approach to this situation has been interesting and even a little weird.

As you know there have been two interviews/videos. One with Wagener and then the King Jordan interview. In both Tmez mentioned the case should be dismissed but then also complained about not trusting the Estate lawyers , how he wasn't even called, hiring him etc. It resulted in fan petitions to Estate to hire him and a response from Estate and a response from Tmez.

The issues I realize are these:

1. If he's aware and thinks the case should be dismissed why is he so interested in being involved in this case? Why now? Isn't it too early to think about that? we have seen the documents Estate is arguing on statue of limitations and there's nothing about any sexual abuse right now. Even though we agree Tmez is far more superior in regards to sexual abuse claims, there's no need for that expertise right now.

2. Why not TMez call the executors himself? What's stopping him from calling Branca and offering his services? How does talking about this at fan shows help him to get hired? Doesn't it create nervousness in the fans? Also saying stuff like he doesn't trust the current lawyers isn't going to help in hiring him. (Ps: that's his opinion and he's entitled to it and his right to express it but in my opinion publicly badmouthing people doesn't help you to get hired by them)

3. Then a petition happened and it looks like it was set up in a way that either every signature or updates about petition was sent to Branca's business email. It resulted in Estate Online team sending an email to the person who founded the petition asking them "stop spamming Executors with petition signatures". Tmez was told about these developments and he told people "not to listen to Estate and carry on". So again continuing to spam people when they told you to stop won't get him hired. Also Tmez's "do not listen to anyone from Estate" wouldn't look well to the Estate either. If they hired him they would be working together. People don't tend to hire people that doesn't respect them and their authority. and that's also IMO pushing himself on to Executors. Executors already sent a reply saying they are aware of the petition and such petitions don't work. Saying "don't stop" and/or "don't listen to them" is pushing yourself on to them and trying to force them.

So to me this is weird. It's like almost fans and TMez are doing everything that would make sure he doesn't get hired at all. It doesn't make much sense to me. The approach is weird.

Also if you check Wade / Safechuck supporters they are seeing this statements by TMez and fan petitions to hire TMez as a proof of a)people believing the accusations has validity and b)being scared. As these supporters point out if you believe these cases should and will be dismissed due to late nature of them, there's NO need to prepare to defend against them. The moment the fans and TMez campaign to get TMez hired to defend for these accusations and make statements like no other lawyer can do it, it does show that you think there's valid claims to allow it go forward and it does show that you believe the claims to be strong so they would need a special and experienced lawyer.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

First of all let me say that I'm all for hiring TMez for the case as a lawyer / consultant/ expert witness etc IF this goes to trial. But not now and also his approach to this situation has been interesting and even a little weird.

As you know there have been two interviews/videos. One with Wagener and then the King Jordan interview. In both Tmez mentioned the case should be dismissed but then also complained about not trusting the Estate lawyers , how he wasn't even called, hiring him etc. It resulted in fan petitions to Estate to hire him and a response from Estate and a response from Tmez.

The issues I realize are these:

1. If he's aware and thinks the case should be dismissed why is he so interested in being involved in this case? Why now? Isn't it too early to think about that? we have seen the documents Estate is arguing on statue of limitations and there's nothing about any sexual abuse right now. Even though we agree Tmez is far more superior in regards to sexual abuse claims, there's no need for that expertise right now.

2. Why not TMez call the executors himself? What's stopping him from calling Branca and offering his services? How does talking about this at fan shows help him to get hired? Doesn't it create nervousness in the fans? Also saying stuff like he doesn't trust the current lawyers isn't going to help in hiring him. (Ps: that's his opinion and he's entitled to it and his right to express it but in my opinion publicly badmouthing people doesn't help you to get hired by them)

3. Then a petition happened and it looks like it was set up in a way that either every signature or updates about petition was sent to Branca's business email. It resulted in Estate Online team sending an email to the person who founded the petition asking them "stop spamming Executors with petition signatures". Tmez was told about these developments and he told people "not to listen to Estate and carry on". So again continuing to spam people when they told you to stop won't get him hired. Also Tmez's "do not listen to anyone from Estate" wouldn't look well to the Estate either. If they hired him they would be working together. People don't tend to hire people that doesn't respect them and their authority. and that's also IMO pushing himself on to Executors. Executors already sent a reply saying they are aware of the petition and such petitions don't work. Saying "don't stop" and/or "don't listen to them" is pushing yourself on to them and trying to force them.

So to me this is weird. It's like almost fans and TMez are doing everything that would make sure he doesn't get hired at all. It doesn't make much sense to me. The approach is weird.

Also if you check Wade / Safechuck supporters they are seeing this statements by TMez and fan petitions to hire TMez as a proof of a)people believing the accusations has validity and b)being scared. As these supporters point out if you believe these cases should and will be dismissed due to late nature of them, there's NO need to prepare to defend against them. The moment the fans and TMez campaign to get TMez hired to defend for these accusations and make statements like no other lawyer can do it, it does show that you think there's valid claims to allow it go forward and it does show that you believe the claims to be strong so they would need a special and experienced lawyer.

The petition thing is actually very disturbing. Not sure where these fans get this sense of entitlement.

Really, we're talking here about people who are not beneficiaries of the estate.

Even worse, they lack any kind of legal knowledge/background yet are acting as connoisseurs.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

As you know there have been two interviews/videos. One with Wagener and then the King Jordan interview. In both Tmez mentioned the case should be dismissed but then also complained about not trusting the Estate lawyers , how he wasn't even called, hiring him etc. It resulted in fan petitions to Estate to hire him and a response from Estate and a response from Tmez.

.

And about that Wagner-interview. Wagner wrote he did not call and asked Meserau for a interview. Meserau called him he wanted to give a interview. And after theat interview the petition comes.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

First of all let me say that I'm all for hiring TMez for the case as a lawyer / consultant/ expert witness etc IF this goes to trial. But not now and also his approach to this situation has been interesting and even a little weird.

As you know there have been two interviews/videos. One with Wagener and then the King Jordan interview. In both Tmez mentioned the case should be dismissed but then also complained about not trusting the Estate lawyers , how he wasn't even called, hiring him etc. It resulted in fan petitions to Estate to hire him and a response from Estate and a response from Tmez.

The issues I realize are these:

1. If he's aware and thinks the case should be dismissed why is he so interested in being involved in this case? Why now? Isn't it too early to think about that? we have seen the documents Estate is arguing on statue of limitations and there's nothing about any sexual abuse right now. Even though we agree Tmez is far more superior in regards to sexual abuse claims, there's no need for that expertise right now.

2. Why not TMez call the executors himself? What's stopping him from calling Branca and offering his services? How does talking about this at fan shows help him to get hired? Doesn't it create nervousness in the fans? Also saying stuff like he doesn't trust the current lawyers isn't going to help in hiring him. (Ps: that's his opinion and he's entitled to it and his right to express it but in my opinion publicly badmouthing people doesn't help you to get hired by them)

3. Then a petition happened and it looks like it was set up in a way that either every signature or updates about petition was sent to Branca's business email. It resulted in Estate Online team sending an email to the person who founded the petition asking them "stop spamming Executors with petition signatures". Tmez was told about these developments and he told people "not to listen to Estate and carry on". So again continuing to spam people when they told you to stop won't get him hired. Also Tmez's "do not listen to anyone from Estate" wouldn't look well to the Estate either. If they hired him they would be working together. People don't tend to hire people that doesn't respect them and their authority. and that's also IMO pushing himself on to Executors. Executors already sent a reply saying they are aware of the petition and such petitions don't work. Saying "don't stop" and/or "don't listen to them" is pushing yourself on to them and trying to force them.

So to me this is weird. It's like almost fans and TMez are doing everything that would make sure he doesn't get hired at all. It doesn't make much sense to me. The approach is weird.

Also if you check Wade / Safechuck supporters they are seeing this statements by TMez and fan petitions to hire TMez as a proof of a)people believing the accusations has validity and b)being scared. As these supporters point out if you believe these cases should and will be dismissed due to late nature of them, there's NO need to prepare to defend against them. The moment the fans and TMez campaign to get TMez hired to defend for these accusations and make statements like no other lawyer can do it, it does show that you think there's valid claims to allow it go forward and it does show that you believe the claims to be strong so they would need a special and experienced lawyer.


OK, I didn't know this and I agree that it's weird if everything said above is true.

However I disagree with your last paragraph. Just because haters think so it doesn't make it so. Haters want to see everything as a proof of MJ's guilt, so what? How would hiring Mez mean the claims are valid? I don't understand that logic. Should the Estate intentionally hire a weak, incompetent lawyer or what? Were Gavin's claims valid because Mez defended MJ against them? It's only natural that you would want the best possible defense for your party and fans trust Mez because he already successfully defended MJ in 2005 and because he is familiar with these allegations and also because he actually seems to be convinced of MJ's innocence. While I do not always get the same impression from the Estate lawyers - at least they seem to have more this "I wasn't in the room so who knows?" attitude. In fact, Weitzman did say something like that in 2005. That makes some of us distrustful of them, to be honest. But it's not like Robson and Safechuck hired a nobody as their lawyer. They hired a super lawyer of nine years with 30 years of experience. So what will haters conclude about that? And frankly, who cares what haters talk among themselves?

I agree that hiring Mez or any lawyer to defend MJ at a trial is premature as of now. Let's wait and see if the case will actually go to court. But again, how haters interpret the fan petition does not matter one bit. That's not what will decide whether the case goes forward or not so I don't know why that matters. Haters will always interpret everything in their own special, twisted way, but I'm pretty sure Debbie Kunesh for example does not petition for Mez to defend MJ because she believes MJ is guilty. That is BS.

On the other hand I agree that if Mez wants to be involved in this case this is not the way to do it. Openly criticizing Estate lawyers may alienate them rather than make them hire him. It's not really smart. He should contact them privately. If it has not happened yet, of course and he's not doing it because he was dismissed by the Estate. I hope not.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm not sure why Mez is talking re: the estate the way he is, but I do get the impression that he wants his shot at WR especially. After all he picked him as his first witness in '05 based on how strong his testimony for MJ was. So perhaps there's some professional ego involved. I don't think it is that fans think the case is so strong necessarily. More that their worried claims will be allowed to ahead in spite of the fact their so weak like in '05 and they feel Mez is the only one to be able to take it on. Which I don't necessarily think is true.
The Estate is focused on getting it dismissed and if it is allowed to go ahead then I assume they will seriously start thinking defense mode and would contact Mez for consultation purposes at the very least. When and if there is reason to. I'm no legal eagle, but all of this seems a bit premature at this point.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It would be very weird to see Mesaeru cross examining his very own witness.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The petition thing is actually very disturbing. Not sure where these fans get this sense of entitlement.

Really, we're talking here about people who are not beneficiaries of the estate.

Even worse, they lack any kind of legal knowledge/background yet are acting as connoisseurs.

Yes fans have a sense of entitlement -which I will show at the end of this post. However for the petition I don't blame the fans. They based in on what TMez said. If Tmez had said "don't worry this case should and will be dismissed" no one would have started a petition. But he said "I don't trust these lawyers" and "they did not contact me" and that resulted in a panic so to say of "OMG what if they settle, let's get them hire TMez".

And about that Wagner-interview. Wagner wrote he did not call and asked Meserau for a interview. Meserau called him he wanted to give a interview. And after theat interview the petition comes.

Well that's even weirder. So TMez called Wagener so that he can state that he doesn't trust the current lawyers. Who does that help? and what does it achieve?

OK, I didn't know this and I agree that it's weird if everything said above is true.

I'll post some stuff at the end of this post.



Should the Estate intentionally hire a weak, incompetent lawyer or what?

No absolutely not. and I did not say that. To the contrary as I said I'm all for hiring TMez in some capacity if this goes to trial. What these supporters say and I kinda agree is based on timing of these efforts. Again if you or me or anyone believes that these claims shouldn't and wouldn't go forward due to statue of limitations there's no reason for them to prepare to defend them. If the fans are looking in panic and trying to get TMez hired now so that he can prepare is demonstrating to those people that we are worried about those claims. Just because someone looks to something and says their perception about it doesn't matter much and yes I agree "Haters will always interpret everything in their own special, twisted way" but my point was those haters are using this petition against fans, Michael and Estate. As for the rest of the fans they do such petitions because they are told or encouraged to do such things or out of the goodness of their hearts but most of the time they lack the knowledge or don't stop to think how such things can be perceived.

On the other hand I agree that if Mez wants to be involved in this case this is not the way to do it. Openly criticizing Estate lawyers may alienate them rather than make them hire him. It's not really smart. He should contact them privately. If it has not happened yet, of course and he's not doing it because he was dismissed by the Estate. I hope not.

yep that's the main point here. Plus how could he be dismissed by the Estate when he himself says he wasn't even contacted? For some weird reason he's trying this situation in public and I personally don't see any positive outcome from it.

----

Estate's response

http://twitpic.com/eb9zg6/full

"organizing these sort of petitions are ultimately unhelpful in protecting Michael or his legacy", "Estate does not discuss details of on ongoing legal proceedings publicly", "stop sending signature updates for your campaign to Mr. Branca"

Fans response to Estate

http://twitpic.com/eb9zn1

the entitlement part: "fans who through their purchases place money in the account of MJ Estate", "some fans have a saying", "first there must be Michael then us, without both there can be nothing else"

here's a twitlonger

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s8pg4o

He said to tell the fans to go forward with the petition. He also said not to listen to anyone from the Estate.The Estate reacted to the petition (See pictures) and did not agree. They wanted the petition to stop, because they thought it was not helpful.But Tom is 100% behind the fans!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

T-Mez vs the estate looks like a horror movie.

Anyways, there is something really phishy in that story. Indeed T-Mez is coming across as manipulating fans, the guillable ones. what is his real agenda? is he also in need of cash?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No absolutely not. and I did not say that. To the contrary as I said I'm all for hiring TMez in some capacity if this goes to trial. What these supporters say and I kinda agree is based on timing of these efforts. Again if you or me or anyone believes that these claims shouldn't and wouldn't go forward due to statue of limitations there's no reason for them to prepare to defend them. If the fans are looking in panic and trying to get TMez hired now so that he can prepare is demonstrating to those people that we are worried about those claims. Just because someone looks to something and says their perception about it doesn't matter much and yes I agree "Haters will always interpret everything in their own special, twisted way" but my point was those haters are using this petition against fans, Michael and Estate. As for the rest of the fans they do such petitions because they are told or encouraged to do such things or out of the goodness of their hearts but most of the time they lack the knowledge or don't stop to think how such things can be perceived.

Again, I don't know why it matters what haters think about what some (not all) fans think or do. Sometimes I think fans pay too much attention to haters. I do not care what haters think and say about this petition. The petition or what haters think about it will absolutely not affect whether the case will go forward or not and is irrelevant.

I also disagree with the notion that just because you think it's likely that the case would be thrown out or should be thrown out you should not be prepared for the possibility if it won't. Based on what I read so far I do think it should be thrown out. But stranger things have happened in the US justice system, plus we never know what we might have missed (we do not see all documents, for one). So there is always a possibility that things will not go like you expect. I don't see anything wrong with being prepared for that and having a B plan. In fact, I actually hope the Estate's Private Investigators are out there doing some work, contacting people, potential witnesses, collecting info about Robson/Safechuck etc. - just in case and before some of that info might go missing.

This doesn't mean I think the case should go forward. But there's no harm in being prepared for the unexpected.

He said to tell the fans to go forward with the petition. He also said not to listen to anyone from the Estate.The Estate reacted to the petition (See pictures) and did not agree. They wanted the petition to stop, because they thought it was not helpful.But Tom is 100% behind the fans!

Did you listen to the actual interview? I did, but to be honest I don't remember this part about the petition now. I know it was brought up but I didn't really focus on it so I do not remember what was said and how. This tweetlonger comes through a fan's filter. I will have to listen to it again to see what Mez actually said.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^

It's not from the King Jordan show. It's what he said after he was notified of Estate's response. Many of those fans are in contact with him.

Edited to add

Fans started Petition on August 23rd after Wagener video. King Jordan show was on August 29. Fans sent at least one update to the Executors on September 2nd. The email exchange with Estate happened on September 4th. TMez response to the petition& Estate was September 7th.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^

It's not from the King Jordan show. It's what he said after he was notified of Estate's response. Many of those fans are in contact with him.

Maybe, but that information still comes through fans' filters, unless someone has the exact quotes from Mez (and preferably in context). From how he answered the petition question on King Jordan radio I did not get the impression that he is behind it and somehow orchestrating it which is what was suggested above.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He's not behind the petition. It's started by a fan and the name is on one of the emails I believe. He's supporting it and he told fans to go forward with it and not listen to anyone from the Estate.

Either way I don't see this helping his or fans cause.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, I agree that it does not really help and it could be played out more wisely, especially if he is serious about wanting to get involved with the case. I don't think a collaboration between Mez and the Estate should come through fan petitions but through personal contact.

I just hope lawyer egos won't get in the way of effecively defending MJ - on either side.
 
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