[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Fans only started talking about it when he started talking about it. Why even talk about it when it's way to soon and Wetzimen said it's not going to happen
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And I agree that a settlement with crooks would be a bad idea there is no proof that is going to happen
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Fans only started talking about it when he started talking about it. Why even talk about it when it's way to soon and Wetzimen said it's not going to happen

Mmm I disagree with that. Even this very discussion I've seen people bring it up before mez came into the picture.

And even so I think he has every right to express his concerns if he thinks they are legit, just like anyone else that is looking at this case - and out of everyone I thoroughly trust his judgment. If he's proven wrong - then good. It doesn't hurt the estates case because again, he's saying nothing that the opposing lawyers don't already know which is why they're doing this crap in the first place.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

As I said before there is not an ounce of proof that there will be a settlement. Fans saying there is going to be a settlement vs him saying it doesn't even compare
 
[Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

There is proof of a possibility, which is what mez is trying to get at. If there wasn't a STRONG probability that the estate might give in and settle, then these lawsuits wouldn't even be happening. Period. At least not as outlandish and bold as they are.

Also why can't mez publicly agree with some fans concerns especially if he has reasonable cause to do so? He can state his opinion just like everyone else.

And I like the fact that he's out there trying to explain the cause of these lawsuits and giving a voice about the financial strategy than letting people believe these claims have any basis in truth. This doesn't hurt the case by any means and if the fans choose to run around frantic cuz of an opinion, that's on them - not mez. But making a petition out of precaution if this opinion is true is not hysteria from where I'm sitting.

No matter what I'd want mez on that legal team, whether he's right or not.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't think that's going to happen
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Will the King Jordan radio show be on tomorrow? I don't remember the date or hour.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

There is proof of a possibility, which is what mez is trying to get at. If there wasn't a STRONG probability that the estate might give in and settle, then these lawsuits wouldn't even be happening. Period.

what is the "proof of possibility" or "strong probability" you are talking about? Tmez is basing is opinion on the 93 settlement. A lot happened since 93 such as showing how a settlement was perceived by public and resulted in other accusations. I don't see any "proof" in assuming people will act the same 21 years later. He's also kinda wrong as Branca and McClain had nothing to do with 93 settlement, Weitzman was a part of it.

furthermore it's not really true that Estate settles generally speaking. They dismissed/won majority of the cases and the majority of the settlements they did were to their benefit (such as Mann and Lloyds ended with them paying Estate and HTWF ended with getting control of the charity which wasn't a part of original claim).

So what "proof"?

At least not as outlandish and bold as they are.

but they do happen. do you know how many outlandish cases have been dismissed during initial demurrer? A lot. People would try cases just to see if it goes anywhere. especially he said - she said type of cases.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The strong possibility is that they settled the 93 case in the first place. Also, there was another interview that Mez did (i dunno if its in this thread or not), in which Mez pointed out that it was not just that case, but countless civil cases that MJ's team (while he was alive) had settled. So for ANYONE ELSE looking to get some cash, they are looking at MJ's estate as their best bet to get some based on the history, whether the same people are still involved or not. That is the strong possibility. That is what Mez is trying to get across to people.

I'm not saying that its true that the estate as it is now settles everything. I have no clue. But I do know that the people that were around MJ when he was alive did settle a LOT of things.

And of course, yes cases like that do happen but I think that its kind of silly, in my opinion, to deny the fact that the 93 settlement, plus all settlements after that did not have a SIGNIFICANT hand in the onslaught of lawsuits that MJ was (and still is) plagued with. I think Mesereau is right in this assessment.

Listen, you don't have to agree with me or him about this, but I don't think it's fair to blame him for whatever 'hysteria' in the fan community people perceive to be and I don't think it's fair to point fingers at him for messing up the Estate's case, which he is not. He's stating an opinion. He can do that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The strong possibility is that they settled the 93 case in the first place.

a very flawed logic. yes 93 case was settled (and it's not like it was settled without MJ's knowledge) but it was unique in many ways. It was the first accusation for example. However time doesn't stay still. 21 years have passed. Now they have more information such as how a settlement is perceived, how it resulted in other accusations and so on. It's flawed.

Let me give an example: Imagine that you put your hand over a fire and burn yourself. Can I say it's a strong possibility that you will burn yourself again just because you burned yourself before? Or is actually the other way is more possible - that you'll be more careful to not burn yourself again?

in which Mez pointed out that it was not just that case, but countless civil cases that MJ's team (while he was alive) had settled.

irrelevant. In this thread we mentioned the burden of proof in civil cases is 51% and settlements are recommended to avoid lengthy, public and time consuming cases. It's not like they paid money to whomever filed a lawsuit, they settled valid claims. You cannot really compare settling a contract dispute for example to a case about heinous acts. In other words for example even if they settled every contract dispute case, it doesn't mean they would settle a case that claims anal rape.

Another example would be traffic violations versus serious accusations. In USA when you get a ticket for traffic violation you can actually go to traffic court and defend yourself however most people don't do it and they just pay the fine. why? because the fines aren't a big deal. So the example here is that just because people accept their guilt in traffic violations and accept the punishment, doesn't mean that they would plead guilty to a (for example) rape accusation and go to prison for 10 years voluntarily. apples and oranges.

That is the strong possibility. That is what Mez is trying to get across to people.

I disagree with the "strong possibility" part as I explained. TMez hasn't liked the 93 settlement for a long time and he's just repeating his opinion in that regard. He fails to consider the 21 years and the more information people has which can affect decision making but whatever. and to who and why he needs to get it across to people?


I don't think it's fair to blame him for whatever 'hysteria' in the fan community people perceive to be and I don't think it's fair to point fingers at him for messing up the Estate's case, which he is not. He's stating an opinion. He can do that.

what you wrote here is irrelevant to me because I didn't blame him for 'hysteria" and I didn't say he cannot express an opinion - he can, however I don't think he's helping either. Going back to my previous question "why and to who he's trying to get across the settlement possibility" as you said? The fans? Why? what can we do if we know Estate might settle? other than panic? nothing. To the people who is suing the Estate? Isn't that like confirming what those people hope? "Hey sue the Estate they settle". Yes he's expressing his opinion and he can but I fail to see the benefit in that.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The strong possibility is that they settled the 93 case in the first place. Also, there was another interview that Mez did (i dunno if its in this thread or not), in which Mez pointed out that it was not just that case, but countless civil cases that MJ's team (while he was alive) had settled. So for ANYONE ELSE looking to get some cash, they are looking at MJ's estate as their best bet to get some based on the history, whether the same people are still involved or not. That is the strong possibility. That is what Mez is trying to get across to people.

why would the estate want to settle this case?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy my comments were really directed at the initial grievance posted earlier about Mez stirring up the fans and that he should shut up. I never said that I myself think they want to settle. I even said that its too early to tell WHAT is going to happen. But I'm just defending Mez against folks getting mad at him for no reason.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And with that, I'm out (of this thread) :p

Don't run away just yet. Please tell us why the estate would ever want to settle this case?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I suggest let's wait and see what happens. It may be premature from Mez to say the Estate would settle, but it's equally premature to say they would never settle this case. I have to say I somewhat share Mez's distrust in the Estate lawyers. I'm not anti-Estate at all, just the fact that I have never really seen them defend MJ against the allegations in the media with conviction. The only person who does that consistently is Mesereau. With Weitzman and Branca it's often one of those cop-out answers when it comes to these allegations. And it does not give me great confidence in that they know how to defend this case.

On the other hand, as a layperson I think their demurrers seem to be very sound and clear legal arguments, especially compared to Gradstein's court documents (eg. Wade's lawsuit) which to me (again as a layperson) seem to be all over the place - as if they are desperately throwing in everything but the kitchen sink and I have even spotted Gradstein trying to twist the meaning of some precedent decisions by omitting certain words from it, which just reeks of desperation...

Whether it's wise from Mez to talk about this opinion of his publicly now? I'm not sure it's wise. Not really because he's telling anything that Gradstein doesn't already know. I think Gradstein knows the track record of the Estate lawyers very well and he knew it before he filed this lawsuit. I think mainly it's unwise because Mesereau may alienate the Estate lawyers who may not ask for his advise and cooperation later either because of this. But I truly hope egos won't get in the way and differences can be put aside when it comes to defending MJ.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ I thought Tom was going to debate Mike Parr, I wanted to hear how Tom would lecture or put him in his place like the deluded jerk he is but at the same time, I'm glad it didn't happen.

Although Aphrodite Jones was right listening Michael's message and doing something to make the world a better place, I didn't like how she practically said to ignore what is happening with Robeson/Safechuck and focusing our energy to save the planet. If Michael's own "family" and so called friends don't defend him from injustice he had to endure in his lifetime and after his passing, who else will? Us, his activist diehard fans. We believe in his message and carry it but we also care in preserving his beautiful legacy and want it to live on for centuries to come.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I listened to the Mez part mainly. I'm glad Parr was not on it. There was no need to entertain his BS on MJ's birthday. I hoped someone would ask Mez about Safechuck's claim that MJ called him before the trial and threatened him because he did not want to testify. I guess Mez would be able to say something about that.

Mez said he was willing to help and co-operate with the Estate in the current case if they ask him. He has two conditions: 1) Susan Yu would have to be hired as well, 2) there would be no settlement. He was asked if he was a lawyer for the Estate would not that be conflicting with his role as a potential witness about what Wade said in 2005. He said in civil cases it's possible for lawyers to be lawyers and witnesses at the same time. Mez is mainly a criminal lawyer, but he did some civil ones as well and Susan Yu has done even more civil cases.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I am a bit surprised that Meserau did not know who signed the Chandler- settlement. I thought as the 2003 lawyer he had insight in all documents.
I am also surprised that he said he had no konwledge about the Dimond- history with Michael Jackson when he first saw her in the trial and she greets him. Maybe because of the short time he had for preparing after he took over the case.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It was funny listening to Tom talk about meeting Diane Demon and how he thought something was off when he greeted her and later learned about her history with reporting on MJ. I also laughed when they were talking about verdict day and how Demon came out of the courthouse very pale and looking like she'd been hit by a truck. Tough luck toots! :D
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

why were Dimond, Zonen, Sneddon and everyone else so angry and bitter over losing a case that should have never even been brought to begin with? Did they honestly think they had a chance of winning? Did they really think that with all the lies this kid and his family told under oath that any responsible jury was going to come back with any other verdict than not guilty?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Honestly I don't think the Estate should settle because they would lose the fans appreciation and they don't want this if they want to sell anything (albums, products, concerts, etc.) related to Michael or have any credibility. Of course as lawyers they would think to a deal because this kind of trials are not good for business, but I think the advantages of a deal are far too little next to the disadvantages...
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Dimond may have been pale and of course a guilty ruling would be really good for her further reporting and books. But I have to say when she followd the trial she couldn`t really expect a guilty-ruling. Nevertheless, I do not really agree with Meserau who had said the careers of Stacy Brown and Diane Dimond were damaged after the trial. Unfortunately, I do not see that these people were labeled as untrustworthy. Dimond is covered in many MJ documentaries after trial as an expert, media such as CNN catch up with her opinion. The Stacy Brown articles in the New York Post are currently really the articles that are pasted from most of the press worldwide inluded the so called serios press.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well this is also the same woman who went on Court TV when Janet Arvizo was testifying and saying how greats she was doing on the stand. EVERYONE else said she was a bad witness for the prosecution, but not Diane, so her being shocking at a NOT Guilty verdict, I believe it, she's delusional.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The only people who were shocked at Michael's vindication were the ones rushed to condemn him just reporting and/or considering the prosecution's side like those conniving bitches Demon and Disgrace, they didn't give a damn about the truth because they were salivating at the prospect of earning millions at the expense of Michael being convicted but Tom Mesereau and the jury shot down the party.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes she did what she always did and still does. Turning lies to the truth, but she gets a field for it.
That`s the shame.
 
I was reading this testimony from 2005 and the prosecution was just so freaking unprofessional. This is the first cross-examination of the first testimony at the trial (of Ann Kite) by Mesereau and it starts like this:

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. MESSEREAU:

Q. Good morning.364

A. Good morning.

Q. Ms. Kite, my name is Thomas Mesereau and I

speak for Mr. Jackson.

MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m going to object to

counsel’s preamble concerning who he represents.

THE COURT: Overruled.

(Laughter.)

Incredible.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^yeah I'm glad Tom Mesereau called their asses out during his closing argument. He described them as being mean spirited, barbaric and nasty in their attempt to get MJ convicted. He talked about how they would attack him personally by bringing up his sagging career, plastic surgery, financial records, and so on. It was because of how famous and loved he was. They wanted to dehumanize and degrade him and make him smaller because they were afraid that the jury would be blinded by his fame. It was absolute misconduct and he rightfully called them out.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

See this is what Michael estate need to think about when it comes to settling it think of his fans b/c of course michael so gonna lose some fans over the settlement if they did do it, no more michael music, vids, DVD etc.... His legacy will be ruined.

so plz no settlement.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

as expected

Pearl: No ruling today. Another hearing in which a ruling to proceed maybe determined is Nov 6 & Nov 19

AP: No ruling on Robson's discovery requests. Judge said he'd rule as soon as possible. That (November) hearing will be on different issues - judge said he'd rule on today's motion before then.
 
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