[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Guys, you have many great points and ideas and explanations, but... dont forget the general public opinions, some of you simply want to ignore that, but dont underestimate them, the people who believe the tabloid media info.

Becase the same, or some of the people (maybe) will be the jury in the WR case!!!

Nobody knows for now how they will be able to deal with the accusations, if there will be the needed strong reasonable doubt of WRs claims, or they will be "persuaded" that finally there is the victim of that Jackson, the never convicted peadophile!
And the hate of some of them (against MJ) can prevail and they can vote for "guilty" becase they can think of MJ like... "there were many kids, yes, he did it, we have the one"... and you know what the civil cases are about..., its enough to have more than the half of the juries for a guilty verdict.

+ personally, I do believe its continuing conspiracy, "they" tried it in 1993 (who knows if there wasnt such a thing in the 80s), almost exactly after 10 years (in 1993 right after the Oprah Interview, in 2003 right after the Bashir Interview, the same scheme, the same players..., check the dates and the events), they in 2003-2005 hoped it could work (Sneddon changed the law because of Michael, and for Michael..., trying to get him, he did), then there was the trial, and MJ was cleared of every count, but there was the dirt, the filthy stories/testimonies, "evidence" of having something (books, porn, alcohol...), and all the techniques needed for any conviction (the descriptions of peados, victims of sex. abuse)... and if they used everything possible ... they have NOT been satisfied because... they didnt have enough... and they knew He/MJ had to die..., he did... in suspicious circumstances, because I done want to accept the idea that MJ overdosed himself and wanted to die, if anything... there were his kids, he could have sold everything and be the father with his kids, he had the reason to live..., but we have the fall guy....
And what is left is just the reasonable doubt, right after MJ died..., because he can not defend himself, they can do or say anything to fulfil the mission - the posthumous attempts how to destroy Mj and his legacy for ever.
OK, to be fair, I should say, the question is WHY? Why there are some people who simply want to humiliate MJ at any cost, simply why?

Its not IMO a coincidence that the most valuable witness - Wade Robson - is now making the accusations and using the words - peadophile - child abuser - the most devastating words from a former defence witness, now the victim!

Some of you simply underestimate the circumstances and the media...., this is an MJ forum, but hey, this is not the real world, only a fan forum...

But on the other hand, its great to have many of you knowing the cases, the players, the stories, having detailed info about many reliable cases/trials as evidence.

I hope most of you simply copy the info; and make your own MJ folders/files about the cases ion your PC, just be the defence fans.

 

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, I believe a film chronicling MJ's life would be a good move, BUT there are problems.

there is no need to have any MJ impersonator, there can the character of the most famous person on planet, the most successful entertainer... and so on.... aka Michael Jackson.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Guys, you have many great points and ideas and explanations, but... dont forget the general public opinions, some of you simply want to ignore that, but dont underestimate them, the people who believe the tabloid media info.

Becase the same, or some of the people maybe will be the jury in WR case!!!

Nobody knows for now how they will be able to deal with the accusations, if there will be the needed strong reasonable doubt of WRs claims, or they will be "persuaded" that finally there is the victim of that Jackson, the never convicted peadophile!
And the hate of some of them (against MJ) can prevail and they can vote for "guilty" becase they can think of MJ like... "there were some many kids, yes, he did it, we have the one"... and you know what the civil cases are about..., its enough to have more than the half of the juries for a guilty verdict.

+ personally, I do believe its continuing conspiracy, "they" tried it in 1993 (how knows if there wasnt such a thing in the 80s), almost exactly after 10 years (in 1993 right after the Oprah Interview, in 2003 right after the Bashir Interview, the same scheme, the same players..., check the dates and the events), they in 2003-2005 hoped it could work (Sneddon changed the law because of Michael, and for Michael..., trying to get him, he did), then there was the trial, and MJ was cleared of every count, but there was the dirt, the filthy stories/testimonies, "evidence" of having something (books, porn, alcohol...), and all the techniques needed for conviction (the descriptions of peados, victims of sex. abuse)... and if they used everything possible ... they have NOT been satisfied because... they didnt have enough... and they knew He/MJ had to die..., he did... in suspicious circumstances, because I done want to accept the idea that MJ overdosed himself and wanted to die, if anything... there were his kids, he could have sold everything and be the father with his kids, he had the reason to live..., but we have the fall guy....
And what is left is just the reasonable doubt, right after MJ died..., because he can not defend himself, they can do or say anything to fulfil the mission - the posthumous attempts how to destroy Mj and his legacy for ever.

Its not IMO a coincidence that the most valuable witness - Wade Robson - is not making the accusations and using the words - peadophile - child abuser - the most devastating words from a former defence witness, now the victim!

Some of you simply underestimate the circumstances and the media...., this is an MJ forum, but hey, this is not the real world, only a fan forum...

But on the other hand, its great to have many of you knowing the cases, the players, the stories, having detailed info about many reliable cases/trials as evidence.

I hope most of you simply copy the info; and make your own MJ folders/files about the cases ion your PC, just be the defence fans.

True, but look at the comments on news sites, there are mainly negative.

 

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

True, but look at the comments on news sites, there are mainly negative.

thats why we have to be active there and post only the factual info like here, not to let them post comments on anything they dont have a clue about!
What I can see here on MJJC is, so mamy great factual comments, but I can not see them on the news sites, Im trying to copy some of them, but I dont want to be the one who is trying for something defensive... this way.

All of a sudden there are so many... the Jackson experts on anything..., they know who did what, where and how and when...., come on...

ps: I corrected some errors in my previous comment.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

True, but look at the comments on news sites, there are mainly negative.

To be honest, most comments on any news site on any kind of news are negative - not just MJ related news. The comment sections of news sites are full of trolls and bitter people who would just spew negativity about everything and everyone.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

To be honest, most comments on any news site on any kind of news are negative - not just MJ related news. The comment sections of news sites are full of trolls and bitter people who would just spew negativity about everything and everyone.

They are negative against Wade.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They are negative against Wade.

Oh, that's good then.

(I have my e-mail on Yahoo and sometimes I check out news and the comments are always horrible. I'm not talking about MJ related news, just news generally. There are a lot of racist, homophobe etc. comments all the time. Same with CNN.)

 

[8701girl]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

/he general public likes to build their opinion on simple soundbites, such as "MJ gave kids Jesus Juice"

My answer to them is generally "well catholic kids all get to drink wine for eucharist so maybe then we should accuse all prisets of giving us alchol" and they usually shut up after that.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

1BUI3BXtZrk[/MEDIA]

Omg so that guy who actually wrote it never got credited for it ? i bet evan did promise that guy he would get some credit for it but evan being the scumbag that he was decided not to . Or it was his plan all along just to take all the credit for it

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My answer to them is generally "well catholic kids all get to drink wine for eucharist so maybe then we should accuse all prisets of giving us alchol" and they usually shut up after that.

Well, Michael never gave kids alcohol, so your answer should be that.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy ?@Ivy_4MJ 2 h

Estate files objection to Robson's creditor claim- 06/04/2013 OBJECTION TO PETITION TO FILE A LATE CREDITOR'S CLAIM by Attorney for Executor

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Guys, you have many great points and ideas and explanations, but... dont forget the general public opinions, some of you simply want to ignore that, but dont underestimate them, the people who believe the tabloid media info....

Unfortunately the burden of proof is much lower in a civil trial than a criminal trial and so it will be much easier for Wade to win it than if he had started a criminal trial while MJ was alive. Also, no matter what the jury say they will have heard and read about the previous allegations and formed an opinion. They may be inclined to believe 'there is no smoke without fire' and so be more willing to believe Wade no matter what arguments the defence put forward. If they go in with those thoughts then Wade can win, and if he does this will be MASSIVE news all over the world. The media will portray Wade's victory as confirmation that MJ was a paedo and the public will believe them. MJ's reputation will be in tatters.

Ivy ?@Ivy_4MJ 2 h

Estate files objection to Robson's creditor claim- 06/04/2013 OBJECTION TO PETITION TO FILE A LATE CREDITOR'S CLAIM by Attorney for Executor

Why did it take so long for the Estate to file a formal objection??
This claim is really late and so I would be surprised if it was allowed to proceed to a trial, but if it does there is danger ahead as I said before.

Well, Michael never gave kids alcohol, so your answer should be that.

Unfortunately people are unlikely to believe that answer because they believe what they read again and again in newspapers, so they will believe MJ DID give alcohol to kids unless you can show them specific excerpts from the trial transcripts. Presenting the transcripts to them without looking like a nutter, and getting them to read them, will be very difficult so I would think it's unlikely to happen.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Unfortunately people are unlikely to believe that answer because they believe what they read again and again in newspapers, so they will believe MJ DID give alcohol to kids unless you can show them specific excerpts from the trial transcripts. Presenting the transcripts to them without looking like a nutter, and getting them to read them, will be very difficult so I would think it's unlikely to happen.

The answer 8701girl gives to this question is not a good one, nevertheless. She gives it to these people that MJ indeed gave alcohol to kids, only she excuses him with the priest example. It's not a good way to defend him, because it is simply not true that MJ gave kids alcohol, so there is no reason to give that argument to haters/sceptics. Some of the charges against Michael were about giving alcohol. He was acquitted in all of the charges. That's the fact. I don't know how knowing your facts makes you a "nutter" compared to those who only base their opinion on tabloid falsehoods?

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy ?@Ivy_4MJ 2 h

Estate files objection to Robson's creditor claim- 06/04/2013 OBJECTION TO PETITION TO FILE A LATE CREDITOR'S CLAIM by Attorney for Executor

I wonder why the estate filed the objection so late? Didn't Wade file on 5/1?

I would like to see what that claim looks like. I mean does it state cost for being molested from age 7 - age 14 = $20 million. Send check to my attorney.

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I have to admit that I don't like that the Estate took so long to file the objection with the court. And I hope there is a logical explanation for that although we probably won't hear it publicly. The first court hearing on this issue is tomorrow. And filing the objection this late doesn't give the judge much time to consider it.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Focus on the fact that it was filed not when it was filed.

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

...I don't know how knowing your facts makes you a "nutter" compared to those who only base their opinion on tabloid falsehoods?

Unfortunately caring enough about the subject to know the facts of the court case in detail, and to strongly defend the accussed person will, to many people, make you look overly fanatical - a nutter. It may even make you seem like a sympathiser, which of course could not be more wrong - I'm sure the vast, vast majority of MJ fans despise child abuse and child abusers like other people.


Most people who aren't fans of MJ don't actually care about the facts of the case. They're happy just reading the headlines and discussing the rumours with friends. They may think MJ abused children, but they actually don't care if they're wrong, and they don't want to be corrected and certainly not by somebody who is defending somebody they already consider to be a paedo. Any MJ defender, no matter how knowledgeable is starting from a disadvantaged position IMO, and it's a difficult position to recover from IMO. Think about it. So many stories were written in newspapers all over the world and repeated as fact by those people who read them since 1993 until somehow most people don't even consider that MJ might NOT be a criminal. It's like the trial is irrelevant. The verdict is irrelevant, because people 'just know' he was guilty. Reason and intellect don't even come into it with people like that.


It's like the child porn comment earlier in this thread. People 'know' child porn WAS found at Neverland. They also 'know' that he gave kids Jesus Juice for the purposes of intoxicating them. They also 'know' that MJ paid off Chandler and others. They 'know' he slept in bed with children, and not only that, they 'know' MJ admitted it on TV. It doesn't occur to them that none of these things are actually true because they have worked there way into the public consciousness as if they are truth. If you tell them they're wrong they'll ignore you, after all, they know they're correct - they remember reading about what happened in the court case in the newspaper!


The fact me and you know a bit more about it and are willing to share our knowledge makes us 'nutters'. I'm proud to be a 'nutter'. Thank you.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ Yes, I know that. But to consider people who gather knowledge about something "fanatics", "nutters" and try to dismiss their opinion based on that is a celebration of ignorance. I'm not going to participate in that, no matter if people call me a nutter for it.

It's natural that MJ fans generally will be more knowledable about the allegations, since it concerns the subject of our interest. Of course that means that we spend more time on the subject than the general public does. You can call that "fanatism" or whatever but you cannot dispute that whoever researches the subject has more knowledge about that subject than someone who doesn't. It's like a scientist who researches a particular field and spends day and night with that research. If you want, you can call that scientist a nutter or a fanatic for spending all his time with research instead of doing what "normal people" do - hang out with his friends, watching the latest soap opera etc. But you can be sure he has more knowledge about that subject than you or the "general public". Every deep knowledge and research requires a certain above average interest in the subject - which might come accross as a nutty thing for those who aren't interested in that particular subject. But if you are not interested then just shut up about it and stop acting like you can know better just from superficial information and "gut feeling". Because that is what is irrational!

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Tomorrow It'll be a tough day for all of us, probably for PPB. Brace ourselves! I just hope it doesn't come piles and piles of negativity from the media. :sigh:

 

[laramay]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well, Michael never gave kids alcohol, so your answer should be that.

Exactly. The Arvizo boys were caught drinking in Michael's wine cellar by themselves, having sneaked in, and were proven to have been running wild and being destructive at Neverland on many occasions. They crashed one of MJ's go cart cars, vandalized his property, etc. Little punks...

 

[Vici]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

MJ ESTATE
Wade Robson Is
FULL OF IT!

Lawyers for the Michael Jackson Estate are scoffing at Wade Robson's creditor's claim ... saying it's absurd he had no idea for nearly 4 YEARS that the Estate was being probated and there was a deadline for filing claims.

Attorney Howard Weitzman wrote incredulously ... the MJ probate is one of the most high-profile ever, and Wade is very connected in the music biz. So, Weitzman asks, how could it be he had no idea there was a deadline of 4 months after the Estate proceedings began to file a creditor's claim?

TMZ broke the story ... Robson has filed the claim, alleging MJ molested him for 7 years -- between the ages of 7 and 14.

Weitzman is asking the judge to reject Robson's claim on grounds it was filed ridiculously late.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/05/wade-robson-michael-jackson-estate-creditors-claim-sexual-molestation/

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He is full of shit.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Radaronline has the doc

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/wadere.pdf

 

[8701girl]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Originally Posted by respect77
Well, Michael never gave kids alcohol, so your answer should be that.

Yeh problem is no matter how many times you say that to ppl they are so ignorant and say "yeh right he did so" They belive everything they read and dont care for the truth

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Too funny, look at this part of the estate's lawyers filing:

... Petitioner argues, incredibly, that he has in fact met the requirements of section 9103(a)(2)(A) because Petition for Relief, which was filed almost 4 years after Michael Jackson's death was filed within sixty days after he obtained "actual knowledge of the administration of the estate."

Is Wade crazy. The lawyers want the opportunity to cross examine him on this. Oh I wish they do. Imagine Wade pretending that only recently he realized that the estate was in administration so after he found out he filed within 60 days so he met the requirements. Is his attorney coo coo too. I thought all the time that he meant that he only knew about the molestation lately and as soon as he did, he filed within 60 days of knowing. Now I see from the filing that it is something different.. Now I have more stuff to tell people who claim Wade is from Truthsville and is telling his Truth.

It continues:

..The executors are confident that the evidence including but not limited to Petitioner's own evidence, will show that he was fully aware that Mr. Branca was conducting business on behalf years before Petitioner filed the Petition for Relief.

I was happy to learn this:

..with exceptions not relevant here, Code of Civil Procedures 366.2 categorically bars any civil action commenced over one year after the death of a person when the action is based "on a liability of the person, whether arising in contract, tort, or otherwise, and whether accrued or no accrued"

There seems to be several problems. Among them, Wade's lawyer used cases to back up the claim and with one of them they did not use the full quote--sounds like Panish when he deliberate omits the full information. So when you look at the full quote, you see Wade's case does not apply. Also, the cases are not about a deceased estate but about public entities. It seems his situation does not have much to do with many of the cases he used to back his case. This is what happens when you use the wrong type of lawyer for fraud.

 

[jamba]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Unfortunately caring enough about the subject to know the facts of the court case in detail, and to strongly defend the accussed person will, to many people, make you look overly fanatical - a nutter. It may even make you seem like a sympathiser, which of course could not be more wrong - I'm sure the vast, vast majority of MJ fans despise child abuse and child abusers like other people.


Most people who aren't fans of MJ don't actually care about the facts of the case. They're happy just reading the headlines and discussing the rumours with friends. They may think MJ abused children, but they actually don't care if they're wrong, and they don't want to be corrected and certainly not by somebody who is defending somebody they already consider to be a paedo. Any MJ defender, no matter how knowledgeable is starting from a disadvantaged position IMO, and it's a difficult position to recover from IMO. Think about it. So many stories were written in newspapers all over the world and repeated as fact by those people who read them since 1993 until somehow most people don't even consider that MJ might NOT be a criminal. It's like the trial is irrelevant. The verdict is irrelevant, because people 'just know' he was guilty. Reason and intellect don't even come into it with people like that.


It's like the child porn comment earlier in this thread. People 'know' child porn WAS found at Neverland. They also 'know' that he gave kids Jesus Juice for the purposes of intoxicating them. They also 'know' that MJ paid off Chandler and others. They 'know' he slept in bed with children, and not only that, they 'know' MJ admitted it on TV. It doesn't occur to them that none of these things are actually true because they have worked there way into the public consciousness as if they are truth. If you tell them they're wrong they'll ignore you, after all, they know they're correct - they remember reading about what happened in the court case in the newspaper!


The fact me and you know a bit more about it and are willing to share our knowledge makes us 'nutters'. I'm proud to be a 'nutter'. Thank you.

Great comment!!!! Thank you, bobmoo79.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

"Petitioner argues, incredibly, that he has in fact met the requirements of section 9103(a)(2)(A) because Petition for Relief, which was filed almost 4 years after Michael Jackson's death was filed within sixty days after he obtained "actual knowledge of the administration of the estate.""
-------------

omg wtf. how stupid can u be. if the judge allows this.........he seems to make a habit of just remembering things!

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If you want to throw up here is some of Wade's lawyer's response:

Robson took al the precautions despite the fact that the alleged perpetrator is deceased and in order to protect the Doe Dependants, not withstanding the fact that as the victim, it is really Robson, own privacy rights that should be of paramount importance. Contrary to the Executor's accusations, he did not and will not leak any document filed in the case to the press. Only after the leak occurred and counsel for the Executors had made public statements maligning Robson and questioning his motives did Robson speak publicly and only then in order to protect himself.

...Claimant Wade Robson has attempted to keep this entire case out of the public arena and no prejudice has resulted from the media coverage.

...Any statements from Robson on or his counsel to the media, including Robson's interview on the Today Show, were meant to diffuse, not increase, the inflammatory press.

OK. Now how do you go to the press and make statements to protect yourself when you have a lawyer who is your mouthpiece. Then how is talking to the media protecting yourself. Maybe he meant "explain himself." All Wade had to do was refer any questions to his lawyer. Why leave the country and come back and make 2 interviews? The judge is not going to buy that. Did Wade's attorney forget about his inflammatory statements about Michael? They keep mentioning about protecting the Does, as a reason why they want the information sealed. I wonder if one of the Does is his mom? Why do they stress the Does? Maybe that is just another ploy of his. I wonder if this attorney knows that all his statements, comments, and Wade's activity on the internet is available? He tells the judge to look at the interview which shows Wade answered tough (yes tough) questions from Laurer and he also did not discuss the details.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If you want to throw up here is some of Wade's lawyer's response:

Robson took al the precautions despite the fact that the alleged perpetrator is deceased and in order to protect the Doe Dependants, not withstanding the fact that as the victim, it is really Robson, own privacy rights that should be of paramount importance. Contrary to the Executor's accusations, he did not and will not leak any document filed in the case to the press. Only after the leak occurred and counsel for the Executors had made public statements maligning Robson and questioning his motives did Robson speak publicly and only then in order to protect himself.

...Claimant Wade Robson has attempted to keep this entire case out of the public arena and no prejudice has resulted from the media coverage.

...Any statements from Robson on or his counsel to the media, including Robson's interview on the Today Show, were meant to diffuse, not increase, the inflammatory press.

OK. Now how do you go to the press and make statements to protect yourself when you have a lawyer who is your mouthpiece. Then how is talking to the media protecting yourself. Maybe he meant "explain himself." All Wade had to do was refer any questions to his lawyer. Why leave the country and come back and make 2 interviews? The judge is not going to buy that. Did Wade's attorney forget about his inflammatory statements about Michael? They keep mentioning about protecting the Does, as a reason why they want the information sealed. I wonder if one of the Does is his mom? Why do they stress the Does? Maybe that is just another ploy of his. I wonder if this attorney knows that all his statements, comments, and Wade's activity on the internet is available? He tells the judge to look at the interview which shows Wade answered tough (yes tough) questions from Laurer and he also did not discuss the details.

Wasn't it like this?

1) Creditor's claim published by TMZ.
2) Wade's lawyer making a comment to TMZ (calling Michael a "monster" among others - yeah, he was sooooo protective of the Defendant...).
3) And only THEN did Weitzman make a statement.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I remember it. But I will have to check it out. So how can they now say they only commented it publicly, because Weitzman did. Didn't Wade's lawyer commented it publicly BEFORE Weitzman?

Moreover, in that interview Wade gave to TMZ at the airport Wade told he did the Today's Show interview because he "learnt" that he needed to shout it as loud as he could in order to heal. Now they say they wanted to keep it private. So which one is it? They can't have it both ways.

And then there was that letter to Joe. Only two people should have had that letter if Robson truly wants to play it privately: Joe and Robson's side. And I'm sure it wasn't Joe leaking it to TMZ.


God, they are so transparent, it's incredible! I hope the Judge will see through the games they are playing.