Okay, this is going to be a little long. My apologies in advance. This issue came up before and I passed on commenting but guess I'll go for it tonight. Now, I TOTALLY understand the points in the post below, but I think there's also another side that hasn't been looked at...Or maybe it has further back in this thread (haven't always kept up with it tho I lurk from time to time.) If I repeat anything someone has already pointed out before, again, my apologies.
Summer, I share your opinion that it's the responsibility of the person who's committed to be strong enuf to say "No" when approached/seduced. However, to understand MJ's point of view sometimes I find it helpful to try and put myself in his shoes and attempt to see things thru his eyes. And this sorta kinda helps me understand what he "possibly" thought (also, I have more male friends with whom I have deeper convos with than female friends which allows me a teensy bit of insight into the male mind...at least that's what I like to think. haha :doh
So here goes:
To me, it seems as if Michael saw women as very powerful. And I believe he verbalized that in the Rabbi tapes if I remember correctly. He seems to believe even the strongest of men could not resist a woman who knew how to get her way (sexually or not). And, imo, he's absolutely right. Now, that might sound a bit pompous BUT
"sometimes" it's very true. It has been true at times for centuries. If one believes in The Bible and knows the story of Adam and Eve, then you know this started from the very beginning. Poor Adam. He didn't stand a chance. lol. Smart men have been known to do stupid things, ruin their lives, their families, governments, civilizations becuz of their daliances with the female sex. When we are good, we can be very good, and we we are bad...OH BOY! (Even Princess Diana/Elizabth Taylor, who MJ held in high regard, had naughty moments.) I honestly believe Michael understood this very well, probably better than most men..and maybe moreso than some women will honestly admit to. He understood the power of a woman and I think he "may" have had an inherent fear of the damage a woman could do to him. Justified fear? I think so...to an extent.
Remember, when you fall in love with someone you completely give yourself to them; you're at your most vulnerable. You share your innermost thoughts, hopes, dreams, fears and even some secrets. You allow them to see you and know you in your most unguraded states. It's like being stark naked in front a room of strangers. And when you allow yourself to be THAT vulnerable to someone, that person can hurt you like no one else can. They can push your buttons like no one else can. They can literally dismantle you and break you down til you don't know whether you are coming or going. Even good love can turn ugly when it's not pure. Anyone who has ever been in love, not the superficial kind, but the really deep DEEP kind where you think you're going to be together forever so you let it all hang out with that person and trust them implicitly in all things, knows what I'm talking about. Of course, you survive, but when you're at that point of hurt, it feels like you will never recover; like a piece of you dies when that person is no longer a part of your life. I think Michael was aware of this, possibly experienced it with someone early on in his life and became cautious from that moment on to not allow himself to be in such a position of hurt ever again...or very often. And this may explain why altho he found women he liked, he ran away when things got serious. Perhaps he didn't allow himself to get serious becuz he knew what it meant...it meant putting himself in a position of having his heart crushed. Even LMP said she wasn't sure she ever got thru all the layers to him.
Now, having said allll of that, I DO think when Michael said he liked women of a certain mold and how it was rare to find these types, I think this was also an obstacle for him as far as being open. It seems he DID have a standard of woman he was seeking...a woman who he "may" have allowed himself to be vulnerable to. But I think he would only allow it if he was certain she fit that mold so perfectly he felt secure enuf to be vulnerable....assured that the perfect person would not dream of crushing him. The problem may have been that it was hard for him to find anyone who made him feel that way....or if ppl believe he found LITD, then perhaps he FINALLY did and was finally ready....or in the process of taking the leap when his life was cut short.
For the most part, I think Michael understood love all too well; had great respect for it.
He knew that it could be the best thing with the right person for him, but with the wrong person it could be the worst thing. He was possibly too sensitive to matters of the heart. All the little nuances mentioned in this thread about how he was over the moon about Tatum holding his hand and the gentlest acts of affection that got him going tells me he was a man of extremely DEEP emotion. Possibly too deep. Deep to the point where he was probably terrified of the idea of true love lost. They say it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all....BUT for some ppl, that's not the case. They love hard, they love strong, they love deeply and they expect it in return. And when it doesn't come in return it's devastating. A part of them is forever dismantled by the loss...so they are very cautious, sometimes appearing callous; sabatoging relationships so they don't have to get to that level; a defense mechanism.
It's my opinion that the $$ issue was a very legitimate concern. Let's face it. There are gold diggers in the world. And not only poor women or working-class women can be gold diggers. Rich and famous women can fit that bill as well. There's a saying that you can never be too rich or too thin...which is mainly popular with The RICH and the THIN. It's unfortunate that the $$ issue was something he had no real choice in. The idea that he could have been the target of some woman who wanted to use his money and fame to her own advancement in some way was a part of his reality. Nowadays, with the economy, it's part of everyone's reality, sad to say. There are working class men and women seeking members of the opposite sex solely based on good credit and a job with benefits. My point is that the $$ was something he had to be aware of and should have been aware of. BUT I think he could've used this as a defense mechanism to protect himself as well. He could easily dismiss a woman as being after his money and feel justified in doing so without cause. The reason I say that is becuz (and maybe I'm being overly idealistic) I sincerely believe when the right person comes along, all fears are laid to rest becuz security and trust takes over. Like I mentioned in the paragraph above, I think IF Michael found the right woman who fit his mold to the point where he felt secure (emotionally), things like concern over money might become less of a crutch or excuse (altho a prenup should always be in order regardless).
Perhaps he rarely found the type of women who inspired him to open up? It could have been just that simple. He was picky and admitted that himself. He knew he was looking for something rare and maybe after 2 failed marriages (whether one wants to believe either or both were real or whatever) he didn't seem to be dismayed at finding someone. In various interviews during 2000 - 2003 he mentioned being open to getting married again. Maybe he was waiting for the one to fit the mold. Someone in this thread quoted him before as saying he'll know when the time comes....that it would just hit him and he'd say "This is It!"
Well, maybe IT happened...maybe the nexus of discovering his mirror image (woman who fit the mold) and his willingness to be open and take the leap finally came together. Whether or not he had time to act upon it or already had is the question? I would like to think that IF he found love in the dark that he and she were both aware of it and each other...whether one believes they physically met or not. I'd like to think that he knew his love was returned by the object of his affection...and that she knew she was the object of his affection. Altho the end may have been heartbreaking and what some of you called "like a Shakespearean tragedy", there's a certain peace that comes from believing they were both aware.
:lol: It does sound like a Catch-22 situation. What I took from what Michael said was this. He liked a certain type of woman. And what he wanted was for THOSE TYPES of women to ask him out. "Quiet" women come in various levels. Not all quiet women are shy, per se. A quiet woman could be someone who is simply even-tempered; not loud and overbearing; somewhat reserved? And a reserved woman, lucky enough to garner a few valuable minutes of interesting conversation with him, might have easily asked him out to do something they both enjoyed and/or had in common. Remember how excited he was in the Rabbi tapes that Brooke asked HIM to dance when they first met? Any other woman and he may have declined. However, he already had an interest in Brooke so when SHE asked HIM, he was up for it and HAPPY that she asked him. So maybe Michael knew who or what type of women he WANTED to ask him out. THOSE women would not be lumped into a category of being pushy or overbearing becuz altho the woman is doing the asking, he WANTS them to ask him. Not sure I explained that right...but think of him as a girl whose been told that men are supposed to ask the woman out traditionally. So she patiently waits hoping a guy she likes invites her out. When he does, she happy to say yes instead of being repulsed by his interest. Also, I think this may have been another defense mechanism. By having the woman ask HIM, he's not so much in the position of being rejected. And altho I didn't want to analyze this to death (too late, I'm sure LOL), I think my point about getting hurt is also tied to fears of rejection.
I remember even when he was married to LMP, he had other ppl ask her things instead of asking her himself. The director of YANA said the topic of Lisa being in the video came up and altho MIchael wanted his wife to be in the video, he asked the director to ask her if she'd do it. Now, maybe he simply didn't want Lisa to think he was trying to push her into the spotlight, but he was already married to her. How hard could it have been to casually ask his wife if she wanted to be in the shoot with him? If she said "nah, I'll pass", so what. Husbands and wives say "no" to each other all the time, right?. :lol: It just seems like "sometimes" if something was really important to him or his feelings he either avoided the situation or got others to intervene on his behalf. Anyone who doesn't know the story of how he asked LMP to marry him, you have to read it. Too damn funny and cute. Omg!
Honestly, I think it may come across that Michael was a bit callous, contradictory, or mysoginistic about women and love, but I think it could easily be the other extreme. Perhaps he held women in such high regard that he feared them. And perhaps he loved so deeply that he feared giving in to it completely
with the wrong person.
Okay, this is one WTF moment I can't find a possible explanation for. :nono: Oh wait...I think this was around the time Lisa was trying to get back with him, right? In his defense, he DID keep the mask on so it wasn't a full on kiss, right?
Yeah, still wrong.
Awww I think he was a typical male at times, too. :lol: There seemed to be some years (early 2000-2003) where he was sowing his wild oats (if you believe some of the accounts floating around out there) which "most" guys tend to go through. We have to remember that for part of Michael's early adulthood, he was a strict JW who tried to stick to their teachings. Whether he seriously followed it or not is up to who you believe or what one wants to believe. Maybe when he hit his 40's he had to get it out of his system and sample all the lovelies. LOL! That doesn't mean he'd given up on "the one" and lost his standards. He was possibly just killing time til she arrived?
His loss. ;D
Well, I hope I provided another perspective that's less Bah Humbugish! :lol: Sometimes the way we perceive ppl and situations aren't as negative as they might come across. It reminds me of one of my fave actors, Robert Redford. He had a reputation for YEARS as being notoriously aloof or distant to his fellow actors. He only let a handful of ppl get close to and be friendly with them. Decades later at the Oscars he received this major award and gave a humble speech. He thanked and apologized to all the ppl he worked with who had said he was difficult to work with or conceited. He said the reason for his behaviour was never personal towards them. It was simply becuz he had been extremely shy most of his life and behaving that way had been a defense mechanism for him in his earlier acting days. Now, before this speech, I knew he couldn't have been as bad as some things I'd read. It's in the eyes. IMHO, you can see kindness a good-spiritedness in a person's eyes and by their actions in life (his work for the environment and on behalf of Native Americans) so when he confessed his predicament on that awards show I was like "I knew it! He's good people...one of the good ones."
So, altho I think Michael may have had some issues/contradictions (as we all do when it comes to relationships/trust/vulnerability), not to mention his high standards of the perfect woman for him...I believe he was one of the good ones. He was definitely good people. But even all good ppl can be complicated. I think if we put ourselves in his shoes sometimes, it becomes less complicated...at least, in theory?
