Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

Lily, Clarice Lispector once said: "I do not want to have the terrible limitation of those who live only on what makes sense. Not me - I want a invented truth."

:popcorn:

Just to say hi and that I'm reading...but don't really have anything to add to this thread right now. :scratch:

Lily, I'd say it's more of a Shakespear tragedy...since Michael's dead. :boohoo: :( Can't find a happy ending in him being dead. :cry:

Hi summer!

This reminds me of this quote from Hamlet, Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy."
 
Hey everyone...just wanted to let you know that I was lurking here for quite some time now. :blush:
But I just love this thread. It's so.....peaceful, intriguing.....so magical! I love reading everyones views on things and I'll try to come here more often and contribute a lil' here and there as well, if I'm not interrupting some close group or anything, I hope.


That likelyness with the Hall of Mirrors is awesome.....I already thought it was familiar, never been there but I've seen it a lot. Nice find. :)
Interesting that he sang the lyrics a bit different here and there in TII. I also noticed he was so....pure..so..different. As if he was in his own world you know...not just 'performing' the song but actually living it.
 
I think he lives out lots of his music :) That's a nice way of describing it actually. I've always felt the more the merrier in here and I am sad to see anyone leave.

In my own opinion, this thread belongs to all and it's a shame for anyone not to feel welcome. However it is about love, and it is about us seeing that love through his music, lyrics, actions etc, so I guess as long as people can respect that is the discussion, and respect each other, it'll be a nice place to come. None of us will agree all the time and sometimes feelings will get hurt because we're all just human. Misunderstandings will occur,and sometimes even nastiness occurs, but somehow we get past it usually.

Anyways, I'm glad more people are speaking up and making themselves known in the thread to come out of lurking. I think there is lots of interesting discussion in here, and just enough fantasy to make it magical too.
 
Why did I have a dream last night that I was walking down the "aisle" but it looked like the Hall of Mirrors picture and people were lined all on the sides dancing like it was a soul train line dance and all I kept hearing was MJ singing "your the spark that lit the fire inside of me" over and over :worried: :lol:

Seriously bizarre :wtf: but kinda funny because now the song is stuck in my head :dancin: :lol:


Dont ya just hate when that happens, a song comes in ur dream and u sing it all day long! :lol:
 
Lily, Clarice Lispector once said: "I do not want to have the terrible limitation of those who live only on what makes sense. Not me - I want a invented truth."
:swoon:


I love Clarice Lispector! She is wonderful. There is a phrase and a poem that I love very much. A little more of this amazing woman:


"When love is not to understand what is happening out there, because everything is happening within us." :wub:


There are moments >>>>>>>>> This poem makes me think of Michael. :wub:

There are moments in life when we both
the lack of someone who we most want
is to take them from your dreams
and embrace it.

Dream of what you want.
Whatever you want to be,
because you have only one life
and it only has a chance
to do what you want.

You have enough happiness to make it sweet.
Difficulties to make it strong.
Sadness to make it human.
And enough hope to make her happy.

The happiest people
not have the best things.
They just make the best
opportunities that appear
in their paths.

Happiness lies for those who mourn.
For those who are injured.
For those who seek and always try.
And for those who recognize
the importance of people who have touched their lives.

The brightest future
is based on past intensely lived.
You will only succeed in life
forgiving when mistakes
and disappointments of the past.

Life is short, but the emotions that we can
last forever.
Life is not to play
because one day you die.


:clapping:
 
Aww ash the poem is so beautiful :wub: :cry:

Thanks! You would love the Brazilian poet Vinicius de Moraes. He wrote beautiful and wonderful things about love. Michael would love. I'm sure. So I bought a book of poems by Vinicius de Moraes to "try" to give as a gift for Michael in London in January when I was watching the concerts. But now no longer possible. It is here wrapped gift along with the letter I wrote to Michael... Now, be kept with me.
 
:blush::hysterical:

"I cannot contain myself..."

-MJ-(In the closet)
For real tho, MJJ777! For real! I'm starting to think that more and more and more! :giggle:

I'm rrrrrreally beginning to think that the hand gesture and body movement MJ did at the beginning of his rehearsal for "Human Nature" means "Smack that!!"
:rofl:

It's videos like THESE that make me not put it past him!
(Warning: these are Rated PG-13! LOL)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o77dujxuVwo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D8q0qxO1iI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7rIJ5YNKVQ&feature=related

And this song that he released on "Thriller 25" is just making it even harder to not put it past him! Hahahahahaha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZaiGFRHaRE

Mike had some thaaaaangs on his mind in '08 according to "Got The Hots!" Yeeeeep! That "You'll see" that he said in "The Way You Love Me" was gonna be something serious! In other words, someone was in for some delightful trouble!! LOL
:lol:
 
Thanks! You would love the Brazilian poet Vinicius de Moraes. He wrote beautiful and wonderful things about love. Michael would love. I'm sure. So I bought a book of poems by Vinicius de Moraes to "try" to give as a gift for Michael in London in January when I was watching the concerts. But now no longer possible. It is here wrapped gift along with the letter I wrote to Michael... Now, be kept with me.


Aww im so sorry hun that u never got the chance 2 give him the gift :hug:
 
I'm not exactly sure how long I'll be able to stick with this thread, actually. I'm admin on another (private) board, and have a lot of other stuff going on. But yet there's an idea I'd been working on. . . to return to "analyses," as fodder for discussion? Hopefully? I haven't read this entire thread over recently, so forgive me if this has already been discussed? (Sorry for SOS-length "dissertation?" LOL)

The idea is "Michael as Warrior." (bear with this, ok? It also pertains to LITD) Michael had (has?) a variety of personaes, some quite different from one-another. In each song, each video, it's like he crafts/presents a different facet of himself, almost like a separate personality, letting each one shine in its moment? Some are the man in a man/woman, tender duet; some are playful; some are angry at injustices to himself; some are softer, even more feminine, in a way? "Childhood" comes to mind. And others. But one theme/personae that crops up again and again is "the warrior" as an archetype. (This is different from the "bad boy" of TWYMMF, or Bad, or Beat It.) In the warrior archetype, he is portrayed as a leader of armies. . .that entire military theme? For the Bad tour he'd enter the stadium running at the forefront of a band of police of whichever country it was. And so on. My premise is that this aspect of himself, as "warrior," and what he could offer humanity, and ecology, given his unique position in the world, was his MISSION, and that he took it seriously. He said, "I can't do it by myself." Did he mean he needed an army behind him? (literally, with himself at the forefront?). Did he mean, he needed his fantasy companion? Or both of those things? Did he and "the woman" of his fantasies, imagination, and promises, ever meet, truly? I cannot say. Did his "mission" interfere with that relationship, because of his sense of responsibility as truly the world's most famous person, with the largest platform of anyone, for his message? Did he have an even greater responsibility. . for that?

What, exactly, is he going to war against in the HIStory trailer, and other examples of his art with himself as "warrior?" If he is the leader of an army of L.O.V.E., then the adversary must be. . . EVIL? Not even so much the reprehensible acts that people can inflict on each other, on animals, on the environment, but the force that causes violence, as the counterpoint of love? Taking a step back. . . this is a. . . rock-star? Right? Dressed as some sort of futuristic general of an army, going to war as he's being cheered on by. . mostly children. And women. So in that sense, he fights for THEM. I suppose what he was really fighting was the evil directed toward him in his own life, but also there was his philanthropy, and a multitude of good works, and his desire for global healing, in so many ways.

I offer these two videos (and the Moonwaker combat scenes would also fit in here). First, the well-known HIStory trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93o05SrWzE

This is on a global scale. He is leading a vast army. It may seem self-aggrandizing, or it could be emblematic of a responsibility that he felt he had? That enormous statue, so large a helicopter could fly between its legs! The crowds cheering him on, relying on him as a leader? Quite an arresting image, actually. I think he MEANT it.

Now let me offer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRlh_UYDMGA&feature=related

This is from Captain Eo, where he is again portrayed as a warrior, but on a sci-fi, inter-galactic scale. The dancing is fantastic, but what is he DOING here? He's FIGHTING. He's throwing "energy" from his hands, at. . evil? There are two "monsters" with whips that he engages with in combat. One doesn't have to be a Freudian analyst to see how this must have been cathartic for him, to be the winner, this time? (I won't delve into a discussion of Joseph and physical punishment here, or even Joseph's crawling in "little Michael's" window at night, wearing a fright-mask. A monster with a whip?) This is more than that. It's archetypal, and it's also magical. He is throwing energy. . electricity. . . lightning . . from his hands! It is an enactment of a very real combat, but on a spiritual plane. And look at the very end of the clip. A figure appears before him. Is that a woman? Hard to tell. The figure is hazy, and robed.

My point is (actually I probably have several) is that Michael was gentle, tender, and he was POWERFUL and portrayed himself that way, sometimes. I'm not going to get into a discussion of the Biblical "Michael" here (wrestling with the devil?), because I'm not enough of a a Biblical scholar, but that also goes with the theme?

This combat -- this warrior personae -- brings to mind, to me, the idea of responsibility. I think Michael felt a responsibility that was more important to him than anything in his own life, or at least before he had his own children? In history there have been people who were the very personifications of evil. Hitler. . . . Hitler was a small, dumpy, man, physically. He couldn't have physically overpowered many people on his own. What it took for him to exert the power of evil, was the passivity of vast numbers of people. The passivity of those who were taken in by him, initially. The passivity of people who turned the other way, when atrocities happened. A nation of people, and more, did this. They had the power of numbers, but they allowed evil to win, for a time, and at great cost.

In my own life, personally, "evil" is not hard to identify. The rude, the crude, the violent, and the "dangerous" people can be identified and avoided. FAR WORSE are the weak. Those people who turn the other way, who remain silent, who decline or even refuse to step UP when help is needed. God spare us from the weak-of-will, who allow evil to happen! God spare us from those who refuse to offer comfort when they can, or who remain silent when they should speak. (If I'm anything in this life, I hope I am NOT like that, and that I've done my best, and have risked much. . . .)

Which brings me back to Michael. He was not leading a literal army, of course. He was INSPIRING people to action. . . through his music and his artistry. Maybe through his leading of metaphorical armies, he was trying to give people courage to do the right things, however large or small? And for him. . heaven could wait? "The woman" could wait?
 
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Oh, wow, I'll do my best to try to remember some of these things for you, Moddie. Others can help and maybe remember some things better than me, too. Let's see...

For Speechless he started to sing the very beginning lines which would have been

Your love is magical, that's how I feel
But I have not the words here to explain
Gone is the grace for expressions of passion
But there are worlds and worlds of ways to explain
To tell you how I feel

But instead he sort of combined that beginning, with the ending of the song, and left things out... and did something like this:

Your love is magical, that's how I feel
But there are worlds and worlds of ways to explain
To tell you how I feel
like...

(and then he sort of shrugged and looked into the camera, and in a very toned-down, unaffected way, simply stated...)

I love you.

That was all we got of Speechless, very brief, the scene then changes.


In the Thriller segment, he had planned for large flowing puppets made to fly over the audience and one was a zombie groom and the other it's mate, a zombie bride. We got a glimpse of them in the film. Also, the dancers all dressed up as zombies for both the accompanying short film
and for dancing along with MJ during the song, and he had the two girl dancers dress up as zombie brides.

At the start of the scenes for Human Nature MJ is giving the vocal coach and Kenny some idea of what he is wanting by singing an arrangement of notes, but he inserts the words "keeping her around, around, keeping her around" while doing it.

He also changes the line, "I like loving this way" to singing instead, "She likes loving this way."






It might not have actually been out of character for MJ, for some that knew him well had before mentioned in interviews how very proud he was of his kids, and he, in the Geraldo interview, said, "Pretty soon I'm going to take them on stage with me and let the world see them for the first time. That was his thoughts anyway in early 2005. Check out below @ 4:45-5:00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dI46XY8S9E&feature=related

Even in IJCSLY there is a line referring to "her"

I'm so proud to say I love you

So MJ just might have wished to show her off...but if that would have been wisdom is another thing, but who better would have known the repercussions of that than he?

On the other hand, he might have wanted a girl all along that reminded him in many ways of his mother, so if his LITD is anything like her...good luck getting her up on stage with him in front of all those people. He never succeeded in getting Katherine to do it. :no: Aw, cute. :) I remember Linda commenting in here more than once that this gal might very well be shy. That's what she was picturing anyway. Who knows? Maybe she is.

But I think it's not a stretch, based on what MJ said himself about his own kids, for him to plan something like Moddie is thinking. So maaaaybe. We'll never know.



Thanks for this queen q!!! God bless him for being so happy and showing signs of pure personal bliss! I find peace in feeling this about our Michael.

What you described are signs of MJ definately heading in the direction of a permanent committment!
 
I'm not exactly sure how long I'll be able to stick with this thread, actually. I'm admin on another (private) board, and have a lot of other stuff going on. But yet there's an idea I'd been working on. . . to return to "analyses," as fodder for discussion? Hopefully? I haven't read this entire thread over recently, so forgive me if this has already been discussed? (Sorry for SOS-length "dissertation?" LOL)

The idea is "Michael as Warrior." (bear with this, ok? It also pertains to LITD) Michael had (has?) a variety of personaes, some quite different from one-another. In each song, each video, it's like he crafts/presents a different facet of himself, almost like a separate personality, letting each one shine in its moment? Some are the man in a man/woman, tender duet; some are playful; some are angry at injustices to himself; some are softer, even more feminine, in a way? "Childhood" comes to mind. And others. But one theme/personae that crops up again and again is "the warrior" as an archetype. (This is different from the "bad boy" of TWYMMF, or Bad, or Beat It.) In the warrior archetype, he is portrayed as a leader of armies. . .that entire military theme? For the Bad tour he'd enter the stadium running at the forefront of a band of police of whichever country it was. And so on. My premise is that this aspect of himself, as "warrior," and what he could offer humanity, and ecology, given his unique position in the world, was his MISSION, and that he took it seriously. He said, "I can't do it by myself." Did he mean he needed an army behind him? (literally, with himself at the forefront?). Did he mean, he needed his fantasy companion? Or both of those things? Did he and "the woman" of his fantasies, imagination, and promises, ever meet, truly? I cannot say. Did his "mission" interfere with that relationship, because of his sense of responsibility as truly the world's most famous person, with the largest platform of anyone, for his message? Did he have an even greater responsibility. . for that?

What, exactly, is he going to war against in the HIStory trailer, and other examples of his art with himself as "warrior?" If he is the leader of an army of L.O.V.E., then the adversary must be. . . EVIL? Not even so much the reprehensible acts that people can inflict on each other, on animals, on the environment, but the force that causes violence, as the counterpoint of love? Taking a step back. . . this is a. . . rock-star? Right? Dressed as some sort of futuristic general of an army, going to war as he's being cheered on by. . mostly children. And women. So in that sense, he fights for THEM. I suppose what he was really fighting was the evil directed toward him in his own life, but also there was his philanthropy, and a multitude of good works, and his desire for global healing, in so many ways.

I offer these two videos (and the Moonwaker combat scenes would also fit in here). First, the well-known HIStory trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93o05SrWzE

This is on a global scale. He is leading a vast army. It may seem self-aggrandizing, or it could be emblematic of a responsibility that he felt he had? That enormous statue, so large a helicopter could fly between its legs! The crowds cheering him on, relying on him as a leader? Quite an arresting image, actually. I think he MEANT it.

Now let me offer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRlh_UYDMGA&feature=related

This is from Captain Eo, where he is again portrayed as a warrior, but on a sci-fi, inter-galactic scale. The dancing is fantastic, but what is he DOING here? He's FIGHTING. He's throwing "energy" from his hands, at. . evil? There are two "monsters" with whips that he engages with in combat. One doesn't have to be a Freudian analyst to see how this must have been cathartic for him, to be the winner, this time? (I won't delve into a discussion of Joseph and physical punishment here, or even Joseph's crawling in "little Michael's" window at night, wearing a fright-mask. A monster with a whip?) This is more than that. It's archetypal, and it's also magical. He is throwing energy. . electricity. . . lightning . . from his hands! It is an enactment of a very real combat, but on a spiritual plane. And look at the very end of the clip. A figure appears before him. Is that a woman? Hard to tell. The figure is hazy, and robed.

My point is (actually I probably have several) is that Michael was gentle, tender, and he was POWERFUL and portrayed himself that way, sometimes. I'm not going to get into a discussion of the Biblical "Michael" here (wrestling with the devil?), because I'm not enough of a a Biblical scholar, but that also goes with the theme?

This combat -- this warrior personae -- brings to mind, to me, the idea of responsibility. I think Michael felt a responsibility that was more important to him than anything in his own life, or at least before he had his own children? In history there have been people who were the very personifications of evil. Hitler. . . . Hitler was a small, dumpy, man, physically. He couldn't have physically overpowered many people on his own. What it took for him to exert the power of evil, was the passivity of vast numbers of people. The passivity of those who were taken in by him, initially. The passivity of people who turned the other way, when atrocities happened. A nation of people, and more, did this. They had the power of numbers, but they allowed evil to win, for a time, and at great cost.

In my own life, personally, "evil" is not hard to identify. The rude, the crude, the violent, and the "dangerous" people can be identified and avoided. FAR WORSE are the weak. Those people who turn the other way, who remain silent, who decline or even refuse to step UP when help is needed. God spare us from the weak-of-will, who allow evil to happen! God spare us from those who refuse to offer comfort when they can, or who remain silent when they should speak. (If I'm anything in this life, I hope I am NOT like that, and that I've done my best, and have risked much. . . .)

Which brings me back to Michael. He was not leading a literal army, of course. He was INSPIRING people to action. . . through his music and his artistry. Maybe through his leading of metaphorical armies, he was trying to give people courage to do the right things, however large or small? And for him. . heaven could wait? "The woman" could wait?
Michael has set an example for the entire world to see that a person can become powerful and bigger than most yet still not take lives.

He was also a living example of the following Bible verse...

Matthew 5:5
God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth.

Notice that although MJ was larger than most, he remained humble (meek), and because of this he was welcomed all over the world with open arms.

God's promise was proven.
:yes:
 
...
Which brings me back to Michael. He was not leading a literal army, of course. He was INSPIRING people to action. . . through his music and his artistry. Maybe through his leading of metaphorical armies, he was trying to give people courage to do the right things, however large or small? And for him. . heaven could wait? "The woman" could wait?
Wow, you've hit the nail on it's head! Gee...I love how you guys put things to words, I wish I was a native English as well.

But this is what I've been thinking always, that indeed 'the woman could wait'. Next to that, someone leading such a position in this world...being such a great 'warrior' has to have a woman on his side that has this type of life structure or meaning as well. I always thought of the (known) woman that been on his side that 'they couldn't be or give enough'....how could they understand the meaning of his life and bare with that, when they were 'just' woman. I think it was very hard for him to find a woman who TRULY understood what he was doing and why.
Besides that, he was such a perfectionist....he probably had so much requirements he wanted to see in a woman. I for one know how that is like, 'cause I am that myself as well and that's probably the main reason why I haven't find that man yet. Haha.


@queen g: Aww, thanks for the sweet rep! :)
 
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Michael has set an example for the entire world to see that a person can become powerful and bigger than most yet still not take lives.

He was also a living example of the following Bible verse...

Matthew 5:5
God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth.

Notice that although MJ was larger than most, he remained humble (meek), and because of this he was welcomed all over the world with open arms.

God's promise was proven.
:yes:


You are totally right there.
 
I am going to have to agree with Victoria, at least for the most part. There is soooo much work to be done still, and there are those in the world who are stepping up to the plate to accomplish that in whatever ways they can. Certain things and certain people ARE going to have to wait, I know that now, and the time for other things is done. The MISSION is more important than anything else. There's things going on right now that are simply beyond explanation, and there's a lot of people, even here on this board, who can testify to that. And yes I feel bad for those that continue to grieve, but you MUST understand that yes, Michael is still with us, though not necessarily in body (perhaps? perhaps not?). I cannot stress that enough. But you know what? Everything IS about Love. Michael is a warrior of Love and Light.

God bless you all, and I send my love and warmth to each of you.
 
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Well.. couldn't those people be included in "the mission"? Maybe they were meant to be a part of it. What if they are left out but shouldn't have been. Just thinking here..
 
Well.. couldn't those people be included in "the mission"? Maybe they were meant to be a part of it. What if they are left out but shouldn't have been. Just thinking here..

Of course. This feels like some sort of terrible kink in the cosmic stream. Has evil won? I refuse to believe that, but sometimes it seems like it.

I had a weird experience once (well, I've had a few of those?). I was on a plane that nearly crashed while flying from Dallas to New Orleans. The pilot flew into a thunderstorm and couldn't get above it. The plane was struck by a wind-sheer and sucked down thousands of feet, rapidly. All the overhead compartments came open and luggage fell on our heads. The stewardesses weren't belted in, and were injured. But, the plane eventually landed in New Orleans. What is weird about this is that I REMEMBER a plane-crash. . . just on the edges of my mind, like a dream. DID the plane crash, but then something else happened? I've wondered about that.

But yeah, now it feels like evil has WON. He wrote, "I can't do it by myself." What if he wasn't supposed to, and. . . .. . and. . . . .
 
Lily, I'd say it's more of a Shakespear tragedy...since Michael's dead. :boohoo: :( Can't find a happy ending in him being dead. :cry:

I think we are gifted with certain experiences in life so that we can FEEL on a whole new level. Seeing MJ in recent times, I believe he was experiencing "something" and that thought is both comforting and heartbreaking imo. Why would TRUE LOVE have an ending such as this? I just don't know. I suppose there's a reason why. There always is. -_-

Lily, Clarice Lispector once said: "I do not want to have the terrible limitation of those who live only on what makes sense. Not me - I want a invented truth."

Thanks for sharing the quote Lully. :flowers:


I share these thought-filled lyrics :).....in the words of John Lennon and The Beatles.....

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see"


Well.. couldn't those people be included in "the mission"? Maybe they were meant to be a part of it. What if they are left out but shouldn't have been. Just thinking here..

I agree. Why couldn't or wouldn't that mission of LOVE be something to strive for TOGETHER? This makes me think of the message about ONENESS and it's meaning.

The Time Has Come
"It is now I see and feel that calling once again,
To be part of a music that will not just connect but,
Make all feel one, one in joy, one in pain
One in love, one in service and in consciousness"
 
Well when I said certain things and certain people may just have to wait, I realize now that that was a weird way to put it. And unfortunately I don't know HOW to put it into words exactly, what it is I mean by that. I am in agreement with you all though, about the connectedness with people, about how others are part of the mission. The connection is an awesome thing, one I hold dear, very important, and cannot live without. I feel I would die without it. For we ARE one, as Michael so wonderfully puts it.

No, evil has not won. But it is being battled. Yes, sometimes it feels as though it's all a lost cause, especially when circumstances feel so negative and/or out of place. Sometimes it feels like, what IS all this? Is it some crazy trick to mess with my mind? At one time perhaps it was, but I know that is not the case any longer. No matter what, Love prevails. Darkness cannot win. In fact the perfect words to sum up the book of Revelation in the Bible is this: Big fight, God wins. The same with life on this planet in general. So I have assurance of that in my heart and soul. This old soul of mine, which has been through sooo much, yet still has much to learn and experience as time goes on.

And you all, here on this board, really do mean so much to me. Why? Perhaps because you have stood by Michael through everything, through the good times and the bad, have expressed your love no matter what, etc. Sometimes, because of all the love, I get tears in my eyes. Yes, sometimes I feel down when there's a lot of negativity going on, but in the same token, I feel happy when there is a lot of happiness here. I FEEL you.

God bless you all. After all, we are connected. We are one.
 
I'm not exactly sure how long I'll be able to stick with this thread, actually. I'm admin on another (private) board, and have a lot of other stuff going on. But yet there's an idea I'd been working on. . . to return to "analyses," as fodder for discussion? Hopefully? I haven't read this entire thread over recently, so forgive me if this has already been discussed? (Sorry for SOS-length "dissertation?" LOL)

The idea is "Michael as Warrior." (bear with this, ok? It also pertains to LITD) Michael had (has?) a variety of personaes, some quite different from one-another. In each song, each video, it's like he crafts/presents a different facet of himself, almost like a separate personality, letting each one shine in its moment? Some are the man in a man/woman, tender duet; some are playful; some are angry at injustices to himself; some are softer, even more feminine, in a way? "Childhood" comes to mind. And others. But one theme/personae that crops up again and again is "the warrior" as an archetype. (This is different from the "bad boy" of TWYMMF, or Bad, or Beat It.) In the warrior archetype, he is portrayed as a leader of armies. . .that entire military theme? For the Bad tour he'd enter the stadium running at the forefront of a band of police of whichever country it was. And so on. My premise is that this aspect of himself, as "warrior," and what he could offer humanity, and ecology, given his unique position in the world, was his MISSION, and that he took it seriously. He said, "I can't do it by myself." Did he mean he needed an army behind him? (literally, with himself at the forefront?). Did he mean, he needed his fantasy companion? Or both of those things? Did he and "the woman" of his fantasies, imagination, and promises, ever meet, truly? I cannot say. Did his "mission" interfere with that relationship, because of his sense of responsibility as truly the world's most famous person, with the largest platform of anyone, for his message? Did he have an even greater responsibility. . for that?

What, exactly, is he going to war against in the HIStory trailer, and other examples of his art with himself as "warrior?" If he is the leader of an army of L.O.V.E., then the adversary must be. . . EVIL? Not even so much the reprehensible acts that people can inflict on each other, on animals, on the environment, but the force that causes violence, as the counterpoint of love? Taking a step back. . . this is a. . . rock-star? Right? Dressed as some sort of futuristic general of an army, going to war as he's being cheered on by. . mostly children. And women. So in that sense, he fights for THEM. I suppose what he was really fighting was the evil directed toward him in his own life, but also there was his philanthropy, and a multitude of good works, and his desire for global healing, in so many ways.

I offer these two videos (and the Moonwaker combat scenes would also fit in here). First, the well-known HIStory trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93o05SrWzE

This is on a global scale. He is leading a vast army. It may seem self-aggrandizing, or it could be emblematic of a responsibility that he felt he had? That enormous statue, so large a helicopter could fly between its legs! The crowds cheering him on, relying on him as a leader? Quite an arresting image, actually. I think he MEANT it.

Now let me offer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRlh_UYDMGA&feature=related

This is from Captain Eo, where he is again portrayed as a warrior, but on a sci-fi, inter-galactic scale. The dancing is fantastic, but what is he DOING here? He's FIGHTING. He's throwing "energy" from his hands, at. . evil? There are two "monsters" with whips that he engages with in combat. One doesn't have to be a Freudian analyst to see how this must have been cathartic for him, to be the winner, this time? (I won't delve into a discussion of Joseph and physical punishment here, or even Joseph's crawling in "little Michael's" window at night, wearing a fright-mask. A monster with a whip?) This is more than that. It's archetypal, and it's also magical. He is throwing energy. . electricity. . . lightning . . from his hands! It is an enactment of a very real combat, but on a spiritual plane. And look at the very end of the clip. A figure appears before him. Is that a woman? Hard to tell. The figure is hazy, and robed.

My point is (actually I probably have several) is that Michael was gentle, tender, and he was POWERFUL and portrayed himself that way, sometimes. I'm not going to get into a discussion of the Biblical "Michael" here (wrestling with the devil?), because I'm not enough of a a Biblical scholar, but that also goes with the theme?

This combat -- this warrior personae -- brings to mind, to me, the idea of responsibility. I think Michael felt a responsibility that was more important to him than anything in his own life, or at least before he had his own children? In history there have been people who were the very personifications of evil. Hitler. . . . Hitler was a small, dumpy, man, physically. He couldn't have physically overpowered many people on his own. What it took for him to exert the power of evil, was the passivity of vast numbers of people. The passivity of those who were taken in by him, initially. The passivity of people who turned the other way, when atrocities happened. A nation of people, and more, did this. They had the power of numbers, but they allowed evil to win, for a time, and at great cost.

In my own life, personally, "evil" is not hard to identify. The rude, the crude, the violent, and the "dangerous" people can be identified and avoided. FAR WORSE are the weak. Those people who turn the other way, who remain silent, who decline or even refuse to step UP when help is needed. God spare us from the weak-of-will, who allow evil to happen! God spare us from those who refuse to offer comfort when they can, or who remain silent when they should speak. (If I'm anything in this life, I hope I am NOT like that, and that I've done my best, and have risked much. . . .)

Which brings me back to Michael. He was not leading a literal army, of course. He was INSPIRING people to action. . . through his music and his artistry. Maybe through his leading of metaphorical armies, he was trying to give people courage to do the right things, however large or small? And for him. . heaven could wait? "The woman" could wait?

You talked here about Captain Eo and the energy/lightning bolts. And as you know this was not the only film where this type of thing occured. It also happened in Give In To Me. I think I would probably consider Can You Feel It somewhat in that category, as well. I'm trying to think if it happened elsewhere as far as his films are concerned..... Billie Jean video, while not having to do with bolts of electricity, does have supernatural energy, what with the tiles lighting up and anything electrical he was around (i.e.the HOTEL sign) and everything he touched. In any case, yes it is quite powerful imagery. And in all of them, the spiritual energy/electricity is amazing and always full of love, goodness, and power. :) Love is an energy, and overcomes all forms of darkness. And Michael, is FULL of love.
 
You talked here about Captain Eo and the energy/lightning bolts. And as you know this was not the only film where this type of thing occured. It also happened in Give In To Me. I think I would probably consider Can You Feel It somewhat in that category, as well. I'm trying to think if it happened elsewhere as far as his films are concerned..... Billie Jean video, while not having to do with bolts of electricity, does have supernatural energy, what with the tiles lighting up and anything electrical he was around (i.e.the HOTEL sign) and everything he touched. In any case, yes it is quite powerful imagery. And in all of them, the spiritual energy/electricity is amazing and always full of love, goodness, and power. :) Love is an energy, and overcomes all forms of darkness. And Michael, is FULL of love.
:clapping:

Beautiful post Justus! :wub:


I think in all the videos, even though no energy/lightning bolts, everyone has a great positive energy shown in different ways, but it connects with the spiritual energy.

I love the video "Earth Song" which is a big warning for us to take care of our planet. That video is very deep, sensitive and spiritual. It's about loving the planet, love everything in it and take care of everything in it and prevent the destruction of the planet.
 
No, evil has not won. But it is being battled. Yes, sometimes it feels as though it's all a lost cause, especially when circumstances feel so negative and/or out of place. Sometimes it feels like, what IS all this?

I enjoyed your whole post but I have something to say about these words because it fits with whats been on my mind for a long time that I've been holding inside of me.

Since June I have shook my head in disbelief so many times and felt like I had heard it all until something new arises. Although I know there is much good in this world I have always had strong views on humanity in general and the lack of conscience of peoples actions towards others, in this case towards Michael. The deceitful, vindictive, cruel, self-serving, disloyal actions of some people are just mindboggling to me and it bothers me ALOT. How can people hurt someone who gave ALL of himself to this world? And I'm talking about those in closest contact to him, people he trusted. I don't get it.....brings to my mind the saying, be careful who you trust because evil comes cleverly disguised.....

It's disheartening to see and life and all of it's reasoning is certainly questionable to me at times, I guess all one can do is hold out Hope and remind myself that God sees ALL.....


Dont ya just hate when that happens, a song comes in ur dream and u sing it all day long! :lol:

Yes it drives me insane and then I listen to the song over and over to try and make myself sick of it but it never works. :lol: :p I even visualize my dream in my head still it was so vivid, in color, lots of bright light and color and the energy that I felt. :worried:

After reading some of the symbolizations in my dream book I felt I kinda understood it all. :)

Dancing: Is celebratory, something you do when you feel happy; Mystical Meaning: Dancing can be a mystical symbol. For example it can represent the eternal dance of the Hindu God Shiva, who symbolizes the eternal movement of time and the powers of creation and destruction.

Music: Music is the opposite of chaos. In dreams, it represents harmony and the infinite potential of creative life. Your dream can also express the emotions you are feeling at the moment. Take note of the words and consider whether the tunes you hear have any personal associations; Mystical Meaning: It is said that sometimes people hear the songs of the angels in dreams.

Wedding: A wedding is a union of opposites. To dream of a wedding is most likely to represent the coming together of the opposite aspects of your personality. The union of diverse forces in your psyche suggests that you will achieve inner wholeness. Mystical Meaning: Generally seen as a good omen and a possible prophecy for marriage.

Light: The appearance of light in dreams symbolizes consciousness. Light confirms that profound insights are illuminating or about to illuminate your conscious mind. Mystical Meaning: The light you see may have a deep, spiritual significance. It may represent your journey toward enlightenment or be a direct experience of the inner light described by mystics. The light may have religious associations with Christ, as the light of the world; the boundless light of the Buddha's Nirvana; or the "light of ten thousand suns," as described in yoga sutras.


Pretty cool meanings to my dream if you ask me. :p :lol:
 
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I think the song and dream was very cool. I think you should record the song somehow so you don't lose record of it. Quite beautiful.
 
Oh believe me Ape I visualize the dream and I can't get "Shake Your Body Down To The Ground" out of my head. :worried: I have played it at least 10 times just today and all that sticks in my head is the line "Your the spark that lit the fire inside of me" :worried: that's the only line of the song I keep singing because that's what I heard in my dream. And I also have "Bye Bye Ms. American Pie" stuck for like 2 days now :girl_sigh: :lol:

But hey here's a twist on something my dream book said about music and the meaning of the words you hear :blink: :wtf:

Music: Music is the opposite of chaos. In dreams, it represents harmony and the infinite potential of creative life. Your dream can also express the emotions you are feeling at the moment. Take note of the words and consider whether the tunes you hear have any personal associations; Mystical Meaning: It is said that sometimes people hear the songs of the angels in dreams.

"Your the spark that lit the fire inside of me" :unsure:

:wild: MP start decorating your foyer, there's about to be a wedding going down, this LOVE is on fiyah!.....:lol:

I'm such a dork. :p Goodnight everyone, sleepy delirium has set in.....haha
 
hahahah.. Oh I thought it was a new song. I didn't realize it is one of his. I'm going to have to listen to it again. Why didn't that lyric get dissected in here?

Well I think we all love dorks here :)
 
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