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Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

all is well now thanks to the Mod Squad
 
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Thanks SOS.... :flowers: Im glad you guys don't stand for this type of crap. People like this should not come on a board and harrass others. its disrespctful and tasteless. I don't stand for this. Im tired of it. She needs to STOP. she doesn't get it i guess. I already put her on ignore a long time ago!! -_- I hope the mods do something. i already sent them a messege. I just wanted to let you guys know that if this continues idk if i want to keep coming here. It doesn't feel good to be harrassed by someone , its worse when you don't know the person! -_- That would be nice to help out SOS.. she did this to me on another board as well. Its annoying! Yeah we are already going through sadness right now with everything that has happend.
 
They'll take care of it once and for all so we don't have to keep going through this, I'm sure.
 
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I'm going to keep this topic in my email notifications and watch it carefully.

I'm not standing for it.
 
Oh i will SOS... ive already sent some Mods the messege about this poster following me and harassing me.!!! Yes please keep an eye out. Im seriously freaked out. I feel beyond stalked. Its scary!
 
^ I will. I had to take it off due to needing a break but I'll watch it as much as I possibly can. The mods will take care of the troll. Lest not worry.
 
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can we get back on track now ... um about those songs!
 
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^that's okay I understood, I tried editing it over but that's ok

yes, LET'S! :dance:
 
and so when it comes to the song Threatened I still feel MJ hadn't gotten Snedhead out of his system by the time he made it, possibly because of the fact that he was still writing about all of that in Blood on the Dancefloor in 1997.

Mike went through a lot and seemed to harbor a fantasy about scaring the daylights out of those who had put him through so much.

I still don't know if he was singing to a "someone" in the "dark" but if he was, I have a new theory about it.

I have to gather my thoughts on it a bit more ... but I'll post it soon.
 
MysteriousPhoenix said:
Sounds intriguing.;D I look forward to it.:popcorn:
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Its a combination of things that have dawned on me over the last few months. These thoughts are like 'strands' that make a 'braid' as MJ's songs seem to be to me, and you know how 'strands' are ... they go every-which-a-way until they are tied together. Edit: I should also add that it is combined with thoughts I have previously shared so, don't mean to bore you if some of it seems familiar.

At first I had left this fascinating, addictive thread back in June with the notion that the songs in MJ's repertoir may have nothing to do with a certain "someone" until that time away caused a few things to dawn on me giving me a possible new outlook.

Perhaps many of his songs are indeed telling, as MimiK calls it, a Love Story. This is just my personal 'take'.

Please bear with me as its hard to explain the connectivity of these thoughts (songs), but it starts with Someone in the Dark and what was going on in MJ's world prior to the making of it for the E.T. Storybook album and its release in 1983 and the fact that Someone in the Dark came out in 1982, before the Storybook album did the following year.

I find it kind of interesting that the release of that song caused a firestorm of controversy for MJ because there was a conflict between the record company and the movie company (or something like that as I recall) and it had to be pulled from the shelves which is what ultimately categorizes it as 'rare', even though MJ made it regardless to the legal ramifications (and the Storybook album went on to win a Grammy).

At first I had concluded that this Storybook album experience was the first lesson for MJ on how legal issues can get in the way of his creative freedom, but then I realized that he may have made this song knowing full well there would be this problem because of his previous experience on The Wiz soundtrack/movie while he was under contract with Epic so he actually was not inexperienced with working on two projects in different mediums.

I've decided that maybe he did do E.T. soundtrack with "communicating" with "someone" as being part of the plan unlike what I had concluded before I last left the thread.

And interestingly, according to one interview, (sorry I don't recall) he started working on Thriller in 1981, which was released in November of 1982, (from what I understand) and just prior to his exclusive concentration on it, he was working on it sporadically in between working with his brothers during the Triumph tour, which ended September 1981.

Another song created during that same period (but not released until 2004) was P.Y.T. demo version, which lyrics seem to explain a fantasy of "her" coming to him "in the dark" and in it he describes himself as being "alone" at "dawn" when "she" woke him (probably from a dream but nonetheless, a sleep-state) and she told him she was "so sick and tired"

Those were the same words he used about 5 years later in 1987, when he was singing with Stevie Wonder on the song, Get It where he said, "she's sick and tired" (...."of being on the lonely merry-go-round, and she just don't know [again about her not "knowing" which we had discussed at length very early in this thread] that the ultimate love of her life is about to be found")

Jump ahead a few more years to the Dangerous rehearsal video footage where MJ was standing in the black-dark of the empty stage (waiting for the techs to finish doing something) singing to himself the song, P.Y.T. (demo version) and one of the techs asked him what he was singing and he said, it was something he hadn't released yet, or something along those lines.

Well, turns out P.Y.T. (demo version) was the song that he was singing in the dark, which shows he still had that song stuck in his head ("her" on his mind) during the Dangerous era even though he wrote it way back in the Thriller era and him singing it in "the dark" during that rehearsal could have been triggered by a remniscing of how they first "met", presuming that indeed it involved the "dark".

Meanwhile, during the Bad and Dangerous eras, he was releasing songs about "someone" he was watching (on the street) which is something he and his brothers had sang about in the old days with Shake Your Body Down (eg., "first time that I saw you walking down the street so pretty") which tells me this was a modus operandi he had for getting to know someone, by watching them, and may have continued watching "her" in this way, eg., Streetwalker (1987, Bad CD), TWYMMF (1987, Bad CD), She Drives Me Wild (1990 Dangerous CD), and I will place Serious Effect and Can't Let Her Get Away in that category also because both songs are telling a 'story' in 'code' more or less so that nobody understands certain ones of the lyrics without trying awfully hard if at all (except for the hooks and some standard versus) and both are about disappointment and her "leaving" him just like the infamous, Who Is It although neither song (CLHGA or S.E.) goes into much depth of their relationship but he was disappointed which had a serious effect on him, which doesn't necessarily mean she did anything wrong, possibly just simply because of his trust in their promises in "secret so untold" and maybe he did something that caused confusion for "her" which he later realized as I'll explain.

ALL of these songs were created for the SAME album which tells me that this "star secret friend" is on the receiving end of these hard to understand lyrics and their "meanings", as to what took place between them "in secret, so untold", and was therefore intended only for her to understand in the music, which is why none of these songs were fan favorites overall, with the exception of Who Is It, which he featured on Oprah, (to make sure "she" heard it?), when he told Oprah that he has been in "love with..." Brooke Shields (what happened to Tate?) and "another girl". He had apparently told Oprah ahead of time to ask him to do Who Is It, because she requested it by name and she even described it as, "that song where you do the beat-boxing" but the song had in fact never before been heard, so that to say, he may have done it for Oprah prior to the show and made sure Oprah requested it so that "she" could be sure and hear it. He wanted "her" to hear it, not because he was so hurt so much as he wanted "her" to know he cared.

The fact that during the Dangerous rehearsals he's still singing P.Y.T.(demo version written during the Thriller era some 5 years prior), is what ties this all together, so he was still having the same feelings for her as before, he just was expressing in the other songs on Dangerous how he didn't understand her actions, but by the time he did his next album he seems to have still been giving it a lot of thought.

We see that his continued love for her turns from confusion to compassion by the next album, HIStory, because, her "upping and running away" for reasons "unexplained" was also mentioned in the song, You Are Not Alone in 1995 but with much more consideration for what she may have been going through because he's saying the same thing as in the previous album but in a different way.

"Another day has gone, I'm still all alone" >> "Did you really feel I'm lonely"
"How could this be, you're not here with me" >> "and she promised me forever and a day we'd live as one"

"never said good-bye ... why she have to go ... leave my world so cold" >> "she didn't leave a letter she just upped and ran away"

"something whispers in my ear and says you are not alone" >> "she promised me forever and a day we'd live as one..." (which is why he didn't just 'let it go' even after all that in the prev album)
 
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Get It, (1987, Skeletons CD by Stevie Wonder) is the first time MJ is expressing and explaining her "resistance" as he and Stevie are going back and forth ("she's taken her heart and put it away under lock and key") which tells me that this was the first in the string of songs done about this girl who's actions (of "resisting") are "unexplained" because he says she's "buried her feelings deep inside" (so she obviously never told him) and he's guessing by saying, "cause she don't want to be taken for no ride" and "she keeps saying no one's gonna get it" is the beginnings of her giving off the impression to him that she's "invincible" in addition to the fact that he is acknowledging that she is not turned on by "diamond rings and fancy cars" and he expressed it on Stevie's album presumably because it was after the completion of Bad where he had already done The Way You Make Me Feel and if her earth shaking expression of this was to 'up and run away', this would be the first clue to the public that that's what happened. Despite his acknowledgment of how she is not turned on by material things, he nevertheless, throughout the rest of the songs to come (1990 UNTIL 2008) he continually expresses his love the only way that he (most men really) seem to know how - with material things. I guess it took him that long for him to really 'get it' (no pun intended)

(as an aside): I watched a talk show once where Stevie Wonder was on there showing how a song is composed and he was saying that he composes a song out of simple conversations, and he gave an example to the show host who was just talking and Stevie actually sat there at the piano and turned that mundane conversation into a song!

That's how Get It sounds to me, starting off with Stevie explaining it to Michael, eg., "Miss Lady Girl put her feelings on a shelf, cause she don't want to be hurt by nobody else". Then Michael jumps in with, "she's sick and tired, of being on the lonely merry-go-round..."

This reminds me of the song You Are Not Alone and the end adlib where Michael shouts, "you gotta stop bein' alone!!" - - "you and me!!" - - "together"!! (and is also incidently the most 'personal' sounding part which came from him and not the song writer) which sounds to me like a "plea" for her to understand that his love for "her" is real as opposed to her feeling she has to remain "on that lonely merry-go-round" because he was on it also and wanted to get off of it too. It reminds me of the "secret so untold" where she had promised to rescue him from his loneliness and he was going to rescue her from hers.

By You Are Not Alone, he also has thought long and hard and has come to a point of true compassion for her "leaving his world so cold" or upping and "running away" and realizes that she needs him very much (eg., "you just reach out for me Girl! In the morning...in the evening...you and me!)

So by the late 90s, his heart never forgot "that someone" he'd been "searching" for all this time, as he expressed in "Someone" Put Your Hand Out, eg., "I've searched this whole world wishing she'll be there time after time" and he's looking for a love that's "so Divine" which went back to what he'd said in Someone In the Dark, eg., "like it was written in the stars I knew".

In his last single release in 2003, he has taken compassion to another level and is now taking full responsibility for all of it and just wants her to give him a real chance to show her he is for real. He releases OMC where once again he is willing to "search the world" if that is "what it takes" because he feels that all he needs is One More Chance at (true) love, which in the previous years, during the Dangerous album, he didn't know it was love on her part, (because he admittedly didn't understand what was going on, as the songs in that album say) and by 1995 he realized it was just as he and Stevie had figured out back in 1987, that she was just scared of being hurt by him which is completely understandable considering, let's face it, (and fear and love DO get confused with love not yet being perfected) and yet he "knew" without a doubt that their hearts "belonged so well" which is why he'd said in Get It that, "the ultimate love of her life is about to be found". Also he offers a very personal sounding adlib in One More Chance with, "tell her its all on me!!" which was once again, from him and not the song writer (same song writer btw as You Are Not Alone whatever that's worth)

Going back to 1995 for a minute he had come to a point of compassion for her feelings of uncertainty (not fear of him or of love but perhaps fear of having an inability to please him in the way others seemed to be doing or of maybe not being able to give him as much attention as he is overly accustomed to, or fear that he wouldn't understand why she is not all about the material things as he would have hoped and as most people are, eg., fear that he wouldn't understand her true love) and why it is that in For All Time he is reassuring her throughout the entire song, wishing these words (alone) could keep her happy (until they can be together where he can show her all the things he'd realized).

By 2004, he not only had compassion but also realized entirely that "she" had true love for him and he realized that she was not only NOT TURNED ON, but actually turned off by money, fame etc., which is why in the following releases, he is openly expressing a new level of appreciation for "the way" she loves him which he hadn't understood in that way at first. We see a progression of his understanding of this unfolding before us from album to album.

By the time the Ultimate Collection is released, he places songs on there which do not have a presence anywhere within the Michael Jackson repertoire, but nonetheless, the album is called, "Ultimate" and features songs never before heard by anyone, such as Fall Again, which expresses a connection he experienced without words or a lot of physical interaction (eg., "something about you ...stare in your eyes, everything I'm looking for I seem to find - all this time away ...) which says the connection took place a long time ago and he's still looking for completion of it.

The other two never before heard songs featured are, The Way You Love Me and Beautiful Girl which are like 'revelations' of a kind. The Way you love me, is saying more about a manner, approach or outlook that she has toward him that he deeply now appreciates and once again, we see that he has not spent a certain amount of time with her intimately because he keeps promising, "you'll see" to all of the things he is saying he likes about her.

In Beautiful Girl, he never refers to her "looks" even with as many times as he calls her "beautiful", as it seems to be an 'appreciation' song, extolling the virtues of her "real" love for him and his true love for her as he keeps repeating 'real love' underneath the music so its barely noticeable, also possibly so that no one can here it but "her",

which reminds me of the song on the Dangerous album Who Is It where he referred to "promises in secret so untold", which tells me that he may not have actually told her per se, (which is why in Beautiful Girl he says, she never knew")

Meanwhile, in so many songs after Dangerous he is talking about how hard it has been to "get through" to her which could mean he has only been trying through song.

Butterflies, "... when I try to get through, keep me wondering why" - Invincible, "I can't seem to get through no matter how I try to", Got the Hots, "I try but I can't get through Girl", which lets me know that from his point of view, all those years he was trying to "tell" her that he has recognized that he was remiss in his estimation of things in the past (Who Is It etc. on Dangerous) he has been in his own way trying to get it over to her but still, "she never knew" either because she wasn't listening carefully enough if at all or she never would have thought it was about "her".

The last song, Hold My Hand, was an in-your-face invitation for them to stop playing cat and mouse and just get to it. The lyrics reiterate the lyrics in the songs of the past such as I Just Can't Stop Lovin' You (eg., I can't live my life without you - better off being together than being miserable alone") - ("the nights are getting darker and there's no peace inside" - "each night when the wind blows I hear your voice so I call your name")

and I just can't stop loving you is a line that spanned from 1987 on the Bad CD to 2003 to OMC (end adlibs) on the Number Ones CD

OK, that's it for now :giggle: phew!! that was a lot of rambling, but yeh, that's my 'take' for the moment which still leads me to some new conclusions but I may need another mini-break after all that :doh: and I know y'all really missed these BOOKS!
 
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MJbabe21 said:
Thanks SOS.... :flowers: Im glad you guys don't stand for this type of crap. People like this should not come on a board and harrass others. its disrespctful and tasteless. I don't stand for this. Im tired of it. She needs to STOP. she doesn't get it i guess. I already put her on ignore a long time ago!! -_- I hope the mods do something. i already sent them a messege. I just wanted to let you guys know that if this continues idk if i want to keep coming here. It doesn't feel good to be harrassed by someone , its worse when you don't know the person! -_- That would be nice to help out SOS.. she did this to me on another board as well. Its annoying! Yeah we are already going through sadness right now with everything that has happend.
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Dear Heavens MJbabe21?

It looks like you've had more problems with that poster? Gosh why are they doing this!!?? I don't understand some fans.

So glad to see the mods on top of it. Thank God for their quick actions.

PM me next time and give me an alert, that way I too can have your back and more than 1 person and be on the look out on your behalf. Speaking of pm's I think I need to clean my box out, lol.

I hope you are doing better now.

Don't want NOBODY messing with our sweet MJbabe21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
MysteriousPhoenix said:
I know that someone brought this up a while ago, but it's something that has remained unanswered and I've been curious about. Well, what has got me curious is a certain line in the chorus of the song "Threatened." The line is the one that is bolded below:

You should be watching me, you should feel threatened
Why you sleep, why you creep, you should be threatened
Every time your lady speaks she speaks to me, threatened
Half of me you’ll never be, so you should feel threatened by me

So, whaddya think about that? What exactly is he inferring here? Is he saying that he is interested in some other guy's lady or perhaps this other guy's lady is interested in him and he's taunting the other guy with this info or what? I know that it's a strange and unique song, but I know you have a pretty sharp mind. Lemme know what you think.
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Hi,

I have a different theory on this one. Could it possibly be that he is referring to Tommy Mottola ? I remember a video where he said that Mariah Carey ( then married to TM) came to MJ and she was all scared of TM and MJ said that he had to hold Mariah to calm her down because she was so scared of him.

But come to think of it, this did not happen until 2002, AFTER the Invincible album came out in 2001 and Sony didn't promote it because MJ said he would leave Sony, so then the song cannot be about Tommy Mottola right ?
i have now totally confused myself, maybe I need to get some sleep.

I have been reading this thread for hours. I don't think the coincidences were really coincidences...Fascinating thread ( I will check out Gold Pants next, LOL)
 
MJJLaugh said:
Hi,

I have a different theory on this one. Could it possibly be that he is referring to Tommy Mottola ? I remember a video where he said that Mariah Carey ( then married to TM) came to MJ and she was all scared of TM and MJ said that he had to hold Mariah to calm her down because she was so scared of him.

But come to think of it, this did not happen until 2002, AFTER the Invincible album came out in 2001 and Sony didn't promote it because MJ said he would leave Sony, so then the song cannot be about Tommy Mottola right ?
i have now totally confused myself, maybe I need to get some sleep.

I have been reading this thread for hours. I don't think the coincidences were really coincidences...Fascinating thread ( I will check out Gold Pants next, LOL)
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I guess you're right, as MJ wouldn't have been saying that about Mattola during the writing/creating process of possibly 2000 or so, but I was with ya there for a minute! Sounded like a plausible notion. I still say it was one of those "throw-away" lines, like guys do when they're holding their crotch telling the other guy something crude to diminish his ego, like, "yehhh well your girlfriend was at MY house last night you low life mofo" lol

because the song isn't really about a "lady" - - its about scaring that man (somebody) out of their wits or driving him stark raving mad :lol:
 
Moddie777 said:
Stateofshock, one word. "Wow'!!!!!!
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Ditto!!! That was incredible!:clapping: I think I'm gonna go read it again!:popcorn:

MJJLaugh said:
Hi,

I have a different theory on this one. Could it possibly be that he is referring to Tommy Mottola ? I remember a video where he said that Mariah Carey ( then married to TM) came to MJ and she was all scared of TM and MJ said that he had to hold Mariah to calm her down because she was so scared of him.
Click to expand...

You know, I never thought of that. I guess that would fit. Even though that particular incident may have happened after Invincible, who knows how long she had been coming to him for comfort - and she was TM's "lady."
 
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