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Decision on Criminal Charges in Michael Jackson Case 'Months' Away

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LauraLovesMJ said:
I was talking about ONE person. I try to never generalize a whole group of people, be they black or the LAPD. I don't want to look at people that way.

I wish people would have a little more FAITH in the LAPD, rather than deriding them before they've even had a chance to finish the investigation.
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you already did generalize, citing your situation.

everybody wants a resolution. and they want it to be fair. in all ways, considering the real world, and the way it is, in many ways.
 
Soundmind said:
unbelievable, that's all i gotta say :smilerolleyes:
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Found this article from Associated Press http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems...scribes-response-to-Michael-Jackson-911-call/

No mention of IV's, heart rate or blood pressure.

Found a similar one by CNN also with no mention of heart rate or blood pressure.

You know, you get mad at me and roll your eyes but you want me to just believe what someone 'says' in an interview and take it as gospel. Thats not going to happen. People tell untruths all the time to cover things up. Many news reports are inaccurate.

All I am saying here is if you have proof that there was no IV. You said this

again MJ had no pressure so no blood so no proper vein , not in the "antecubital fossa", not in the neck NO WHERE . the man was DEAD . they were injecting him DESPERATLEY trying to find any proper vein but he was already DEAD .

I simply asked how you know this for sure. I know he was intubated but I do not know what they injected him with or whether they actually had to start an IV. Rolling your eyes at me only means that no matter what I say you will disagree because in your mind I am wrong no matter what.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am asking for proof is all. Just thinking these things happened or assuming thats how he got needle marks isn't proof.
 
vncwilliam said:
you already did generalize, citing your situation.
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I made zero generalized statements. Perhaps you misunderstood something.

everybody wants a resolution. and they want it to be fair. in all ways, considering the real world, and the way it is, in many ways.
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Real world or not, if the LAPD screw this up, the fans will bring it to people's attention, and then the whole world will be focused on the "corrupt" LAPD. They do not want that, so I really think they are going to watch their p's and q's.
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
I made zero generalized statements. Perhaps you misunderstood something.

Real world or not, if the LAPD screw this up, the fans will bring it to people's attention, and then the whole world will be focused on the "corrupt" LAPD. They do not want that, so I really think they are going to watch their p's and q's.
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well..misunderstanding is easy, then, because i didn't make generalized statements. talking about my experiences and certain other accounts doesn't equal blanketing an entire group. i hope the LAPD does do their job, but if you think they are easily intimidated, by fans, think again.
 
Beachlover said:
Found this article from Associated Press http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems...scribes-response-to-Michael-Jackson-911-call/

No mention of IV's, heart rate or blood pressure.

Found a similar one by CNN also with no mention of heart rate or blood pressure.

You know, you get mad at me and roll your eyes but you want me to just believe what someone 'says' in an interview and take it as gospel. Thats not going to happen. People tell untruths all the time to cover things up. Many news reports are inaccurate.

All I am saying here is if you have proof that there was no IV. You said this

again MJ had no pressure so no blood so no proper vein , not in the "antecubital fossa", not in the neck NO WHERE . the man was DEAD . they were injecting him DESPERATLEY trying to find any proper vein but he was already DEAD .

I simply asked how you know this for sure. I know he was intubated but I do not know what they injected him with or whether they actually had to start an IV. Rolling your eyes at me only means that no matter what I say you will disagree because in your mind I am wrong no matter what.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am asking for proof is all. Just thinking these things happened or assuming thats how he got needle marks isn't proof.
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COOPER: All right, Randi, you've been working your sources who some new information tonight regarding the timeline and the scene when paramedics actually arrived at the house after that 911 call. What did they find?

KAYE: Well, this is some new information. I spoke with Captain Steve Ruda from the L.A. Fire Department. And he told me that Jackson was not breathing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived at the scene of his rented mansion. He said he was in, quote, "dire need of help."
Now, let me set the scene for you at the house and put some things in perspective here and show you a little bit of the time line of how this all occurred. We know that the 911 call came in at 12:22 in the afternoon on June 25th. Apparently it was not mentioned -- Michael Jackson was not mentioned that he was the victim there.

The call, we now know, lasted 32 seconds. it took paramedics four of them in all -- three minutes and 17 seconds to get to his house. Captain Ruda with the fire department told me that Mr. Jackson got what he called "the hallelujah package," which means he really got the works in this case. And at the house, Anderson, paramedics worked on Michael Jackson for 42 minutes.

COOPER: I've never heard that term, "the hallelujah package." Why did they work on him at the house for those 42 minutes? Why not just take him to the hospital right away? Was he not stable he couldn't be moved? KAYE: I wanted to know that same thing, actually, and he called it a scoop-and-run. That's when they pick up and transport right away. That did not happen in this case for a number of reasons, Anderson.

First of all, I'm told that Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson's personal physician -- who we just heard a little bit more about from Ted there in Vegas -- he took responsibility at the scene, this fire captain told me. He was in charge. He was calling the shots. He decided and determined that it was best to work on him there for those 42 minutes and try and get him breathing at the scene.

Captain Ruda told me that when a patient is pulse-less and not breathing, there are many things of course that paramedics can do to try and get the heart beat again. They gave him oxygen, they gave him medicines that he would not name; nothing seemed to work.

But again, this is treatment that was prescribed at the scene, and that's why he wasn't transported. And in those 42 minutes, that's actually part of the "golden hour," I'm told. That's what paramedics call it. It's all the time they have to jump-start the blood pressure and get the heart going again.

The fire captain I've spoke with told me that if a patient is just too far gone, obviously, no matter how long they work on him, nothing is going to help.

COOPER: And how much time has to pass before a patient is simply too far gone?

KAYE: A patient, I'm told by this fire captain, can go without oxygen for about four to six minutes before severe brain damage sets in followed by death. I asked him if that's what happened in the case of Michael Jackson and the Captain Ruda told me, quote, "based on what paramedics saw at the scene, they tried every technique known in the field. Still, we know, he could not be saved."
In the end they loaded him into the ambulance at his rented mansion in Beverly Hills. It was about a two-mile drive or so from there to the UCLA Emergency Room. It took a little over four minutes and as we know now, that is where he died.

KAYE: All right, Randi.
 
did the chief lie ? what was his motive to lie? was he also giving mj propofol before his death ? won't be surprised if murray claimed it was the paramedics who killed mj and they lied to hide their mistakes, after all murray passed many exams , he is a "smart doctor" he would not have done the 'mistakes' we are accusing him of .
 
Beachlover said:
I can't speak for the Emergency Medical Techs. I wasn't there so I don't know what they did or did not do. I haven't seen the report they filed either. Someone says it is on line but I can not find it.

I will assume they found him with no pulse, no breathing and no blood pressure. (I am going by your word here because I didn't see the report).

I don't know for a fact whether he had an IV. All I am saying here is what I know to be fact. I am not speculating on whether he pulled it out. I would think if he DID pull it out that is another nail in his coffin.
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I did find a report that TMZ reported back on June 25 that stated that Michael had no pulse whne the paramedics got there and they never did get one.....seeing as the MJJC sight allows reports from TMZ I assume this is accurate because they have been accurate about things in the past..since Michael passed.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/
 
UCLA medical team also spoke with the tabloid News of The World (ugh) and shared with them the form they had to fill out which is numbered F-902M. It's required when there is a fatality.
The report, made on a comprehensive official form, makes clear the King of Pop had already:

Got no PULSE.

FLATLINED - showing no sign of heart activity.

Stopped BREATHING.

But most tellingly, the star's body showed clear signs of what medics call LIVIDITY - when the blood drains to the bottom of the body after the heart stops.
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You can read the article here: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sho...tor-with-some-tricky-questions-to-answer.html

Family members and members of the UCLA medical team confirmed this report on CNN some time ago.
 
Trish said:
UCLA medical team also spoke with the tabloid News of The World (ugh) and shared with them the form they had to fill out which is numbered F-902M. It's required when there is a fatality.


You can read the article here: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sho...tor-with-some-tricky-questions-to-answer.html

Family members and members of the UCLA medical team confirmed this report on CNN some time ago.
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Thank you Trish......I must say reading those words like that again....is just sickening to teh stomach....also like a kick to the head
 
Soundmind said:
did the chief lie ? what was his motive to lie? was he also giving mj propofol before his death ? won't be surprised if murray claimed it was the paramedics who killed mj and they lied to hide their mistakes, after all murray passed many exams , he is a "smart doctor" he would not have done the 'mistakes' we are accusing him of .
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You sound very angry.

I did not ever say the chief lied. I did not read all of that and would actually like to know who it was that did that interview, but, in any case, there are still many unanswered questions in my mind.

Of course Murray is guilty and to what extent we still don't know because we still don't know when he stopped breathing and when his heart stopped. To say he was not doing CPR correctly is not necessarily correct either since in the hospital we never take a patient off the bed and Michael was very thin. My issue always has been why he did not have an Ambu bag present since this medication causes you to stop breathing first. If there is a pulse you would call it respiratory arrest and not cardiac arrest in which case you need to keep air exchange going.

I just have an issue with people who are saying Murray is changing his story since he has not spoken regarding the case at all. Then there is the issue with the phone call regarding the hot/cold issue and these things make me wonder if there was not something else going on there. I still believe that emergency responders can find a vein quickly when they have to.

So, I am not being inflexible and difficult, but I am questioning that which I feel is not sitting right with me, especially since Murray was a cardiologist.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best in which case he just gave too much Propofol, Murray was not monitoring and by the time he found out it was too late and he panicked and tried to cover it up. Yet, he did not 'cover up' the Propofol totally and he did admit he gave this drug to the police. He did not deny this and admitted it freely during questioning. Maybe initially he was scared and hid the evidence as you say but he didn't hide it for long. I don't think it would have mattered in the end either way with the outcome. It says he called Prince to the room but Prince never went. Why is that? Just another floating around in my head question.

So, I am not disputing that something went very wrong and it appears the doctor did not do his job, I am however questioning a lot of things and there are many things we don't have answers to.
 
My biggest issue with this is that it is only reported by Radar on Line and News Of The World and they are sort of like knuckles on a cheese grater to me and I don't believe either one of those sources.

The articles also say he took a cocktail of pills before and that as we know now has been found untrue. Also, regarding Lividity, that is something I have seen sooner than 'hours' that has been reported. So, this is something I know can happen sooner as I have seen it with my own eyes. Just makes me think that these articles may not be 100% accurate.
 
Beachlover said:
To say he was not doing CPR correctly is not necessarily correct either since in the hospital we never take a patient off the bed and Michael was very thin. .
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Can you explain your comment about cpr? Why would you do cpr in a hospital when you have ventilators and defibrilators and other ways to treat people who are not breathing or having cardiac arrest? You have done cpr on a patient in a hospital bed? This doesn't make sense to me.

And the part about being thin. Why would that be an excuse to do cpr on a bed? The only way that would make sense would be if the patient were extremely fragile, for instance with advanced osteoperosis or something, where the cpr might actually kill them. Otherwise you are compromising the effectiveness of the cpr. Thin people may get more injuries during cpr on a hard surface but that certainly wouldn't be a reason to compromise the effectiveness of the cpr by leaving them on a soft surface. That also doesn't make any sense to me.
 
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Beachlover said:
You sound very angry.

I did not ever say the chief lied. I did not read all of that and would actually like to know who it was that did that interview, but, in any case, there are still many unanswered questions in my mind.

Of course Murray is guilty and to what extent we still don't know because we still don't know when he stopped breathing and when his heart stopped. To say he was not doing CPR correctly is not necessarily correct either since in the hospital we never take a patient off the bed and Michael was very thin. My issue always has been why he did not have an Ambu bag present since this medication causes you to stop breathing first. If there is a pulse you would call it respiratory arrest and not cardiac arrest in which case you need to keep air exchange going.

I just have an issue with people who are saying Murray is changing his story since he has not spoken regarding the case at all. Then there is the issue with the phone call regarding the hot/cold issue and these things make me wonder if there was not something else going on there. I still believe that emergency responders can find a vein quickly when they have to.

So, I am not being inflexible and difficult, but I am questioning that which I feel is not sitting right with me, especially since Murray was a cardiologist.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best in which case he just gave too much Propofol, Murray was not monitoring and by the time he found out it was too late and he panicked and tried to cover it up. Yet, he did not 'cover up' the Propofol totally and he did admit he gave this drug to the police. He did not deny this and admitted it freely during questioning. Maybe initially he was scared and hid the evidence as you say but he didn't hide it for long. I don't think it would have mattered in the end either way with the outcome. It says he called Prince to the room but Prince never went. Why is that? Just another floating around in my head question.

So, I am not disputing that something went very wrong and it appears the doctor did not do his job, I am however questioning a lot of things and there are many things we don't have answers to.
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If I may take a crack at your question..:why didnt Murray have a ambu Bag"?....Murray didnt even have any monitoring equipment....so why would he have a bag??....also Murray knew not to give propofol outside a hospital.....Murray knew alot of things...he just didnt follow any of the rules......
 
This thread is now closed as it going in circles. The same questions are getting asked and no matter what source is given, no matter what link or explanation is given, the answer is not good enough. For fuck sake.... CNN CONFIRMED THE NEWS OF THE WORLD REPORT. It's right in front of your face and you STILL DON'T BELIEVE.

What's the point of discussion if certain people are inflexible?

CLOSED
 
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