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Debbie Rowe

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Justthefacts said:
She called him an opportunistic vulture and said he was full of it. No one made her sign anything. Now you sound like Sneddon. He was so bad but he is your best friend? You don't have a problem with that? You have any idea what that man said about Michael?
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How could you know that they did not have a contract,her interview during MJ's take two was everywhere in the last few months and there is a trial going on right now about it.


she told the truth about him in the court , and she said what she knows about his business relation with MJ...she was very helpful no matter what !

He is not her best friend , and as i said ,,he only appeared in the picture when the court trial about that decumantry started,,,

let's give her the benifit of the doubt, when it comes to businessand and trials,,,you can't decide who is the friend and who is the enemy , only contract matters.
 
Ok, I did read somewhere, probably here as I do NOT go to other fan sites but I was here while the custody issues were being hammered out.

Let me tell you, People says things that are hurtful in the heat of passion, that could be what Debdie or LMP did, however time heals all wounds. After Michael''s passing a therapist was interduced into the kids life. And it makes very good sence to do so as they have had so many losses all in a six month period. She , Debbie is most likely getting visitatation, and yes they do need to know their mother however, all of these issues are very delicate at present, especially since the kis are still too young to process it. OH, I remember who spoke of the psycho therapist, It was Katherines attorney, Strisand, (sp).
On a side note, both wives should be allowed to visit Michael but I do not know what was in the agreement so I cant say for sure. I have an ex spouse and my kids are still showing signs of loss and they are late teens and the other is 24yrs. But, as a student myself I learned that its helpful to have someone on the outside to guide and do what is in the best interest of thw children. I know Strisand is couseling Katherine in their best interest. At least, I sure hope so. If not the DCPS will!!!

sorry about any grammer errors, spelling errors but I just wanted to get my point across. TY:flowers:
 
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
The only reason MJ married Debbie is because Katherine didnt want MJ's kids being born out of wedlock.
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since when Kathrine -bless her sweet soul -can make decisions for Michael, even Joe could not do this for him...Michael always said" i'm the leader of my ship"...no one can buy this story...

well , yes,Debbie herself said that they married only for this reason , because they were not meant to be a traditional family , a wife and husband...but it was MJ who decided this.


by the way;

when MJ was married to LMP , they did not also share a house or even lived together as a wife and husbad,,,MJ himself said this in the stimulate interview before the divorce..and she said this later"whe in town , he comes to my house"

he visited her in her house( her ex-husbad live there too, and she visited him in Neverland"with her kids" , but no real house...even Latoya said this during their marraige and no one denied this...



so , this is how MJ marry women , they d not live like a husban and wife ,he likes it to be a friendship only, you can ask Brooke about it LOL
 
Ohood said:
How could you know that they did not have a contract,her interview during MJ's take two was everywhere in the last few months and there is a trial going on right now about it.


she told the truth about him in the court , and she said what she knows about his business relation with MJ...she was very helpful no matter what !

He is not her best friend , and as i said ,,he only appeared in the picture when the court trial about that decumantry started,,,

let's give her the benifit of the doubt, when it comes to businessand and trials,,,you can't decide who is the friend and who is the enemy , only contract matters.
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All I know is MS wasnt a friend of Michael hide his pass business dealing to Michaels...hence, the Katrina song to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if it was his idea to start that false rumor of the "so called gayl" between that guy and Michael. He stricks me as one who would do just that.:no:
 
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Ohood said:
since when Kathrine -bless her sweet soul -can make decisions for Michael, even Joe could not do this for him...Michael always said" i'm the leader of my ship"...no one can buy this story...

well , yes,Debbie herself said that they married only for this reason , because they were not meant to be a traditional family , a wife and husband...but it was MJ who decided this.


by the way;

when MJ was married to LMP , they did not also share a house or even lived together as a wife and husbad,,,MJ himself said this in the stimulate interview before the divorce..and she said this later"whe in town , he comes to my house"

he visited her in her house( her ex-husbad live there too, and she visited him in Neverland"with her kids" , but no real house...even Latoya said this during their marraige and no one denied this...



so , this is how MJ marry women , they d not live like a husban and wife ,he likes it to be a friendship only, you can ask Brooke about it LOL
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Michael was a very private person. Who's to say what type of agreement he had with LMP??? We don't know for a fact because we were not a fly on the wall in the private room when they made their agreements. Just sayin.
 
after june there was an argeeement for debbie to see the kids but her lawyers filed papers a good while back saying she still hadnt seen them.whether thats changed who knows
 
Ohood said:
since when Kathrine -bless her sweet soul -can make decisions for Michael, even Joe could not do this for him...Michael always said" i'm the leader of my ship"...no one can buy this story...

well , yes,Debbie herself said that they married only for this reason , because they were not meant to be a traditional family , a wife and husband...but it was MJ who decided this.


by the way;

when MJ was married to LMP , they did not also share a house or even lived together as a wife and husbad,,,MJ himself said this in the stimulate interview before the divorce..and she said this later"whe in town , he comes to my house"

he visited her in her house( her ex-husbad live there too, and she visited him in Neverland"with her kids" , but no real house...even Latoya said this during their marraige and no one denied this...



so , this is how MJ marry women , they d not live like a husban and wife ,he likes it to be a friendship only, you can ask Brooke about it LOL
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Michael and Lisa Marie did live together when they were married....but not at Neverland. They lived at Lisa Marie's house.

This claim that Michael and Lisa Marie lived in separetly during their marriage was among the many lies and rumours that has been spread and accepted as truth....just like everything else in Michael's life..(sigh).
 
Ohood said:
Michael himself is the one who put Marc S. in Debbie's way...we do not know what they made her sign when she thought they were representing Michael...and by the way, the body language between her and Marc is the same between Michel and Tohme.

For LMP ,,,the Jacksons are afraid of her classy tongue , look waht she did to MJ when he was fighting to raise his kids,,,what do you think that she was going to say about them to the media if they said NO and destroyed her agenda to become he New late King wifey like mama.
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What can Lisa Marie do or say that can hurt the Jacksons? Remember they know that contrary to what she has been claiming during her series of Michael bashing interviews, Lisa was chasing after Michael to get him back as her husband. Including getting chummy with Katherine, Janet and Rebbie. I remember Jermaine talked about it years ago that Lisa Marie (after the divorce) was constantly contacting the family to find out where Michael was when he was on his History tour. So the Jacksons can expose Little Lisa too, if she tries to go there.

I understand forgiveness, but the way she talked viciously about him over the years, for the Jacksons to invite her VIP to the memorial and allow her to come to the private funeral and to have access to Michael's crypt is a head-scratcher for me.
 
I have VERY mixed feelings about Debbie. I believe there is decency in her. But I have a very good memory also and I remember the various stunts she pulled when Michael was fighting for his life during the trial. Obviously she allowed decency to win over and she testified in Michael's favor--despite being prosecution witness. However, at the same time, it could have a cynical view due to the fact that Tom Mesereau had gobs of dirt on Debbie that he was more than willing and prepared to expose in the trial if she tried to sling dirt on Michael on the stand like the prosecution was planning for her to do.

Debbie's friendship/association with Marc Schaffel bothers me very much. Marc Schaffel is among the snakes that successfully slithered his way into Michael's life and when he didn't get his way he used the media and the courts to slander Michael and to blackmail him. Anyone who thinks he's hanging around Debbie out of a pure motive is kidding themselves.
 
enlightenu said:
I have VERY mixed feelings about Debbie. I believe there is decency in her. But I have a very good memory also and I remember the various stunts she pulled when Michael was fighting for his life during the trial. Obviously she allowed decency to win over and she testified in Michael's favor--despite being prosecution witness. However, at the same time, it could have a cynical view due to the fact that Tom Mesereau had gobs of dirt on Debbie that he was more than willing and prepared to expose in the trial if she tried to sling dirt on Michael on the stand like the prosecution was planning for her to do.

Debbie's friendship/association with Marc Schaffel bothers me very much. Marc Schaffel is among the snakes that successfully slithered his way into Michael's life and when he didn't get his way he used the media and the courts to slander Michael and to blackmail him. Anyone who thinks he's hanging around Debbie out of a pure motive is kidding themselves.
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:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

Add the fact that MJ never introduced her to his own mother...Forget the siblings...but hit beloved mother.

I too have very mixed feelings about...I wish she would wise up & get rid of the scumbag & fight for the well being of the kids.

blah
 
enlightenu said:
Michael and Lisa Marie did live together when they were married....but not at Neverland. They lived at Lisa Marie's house.

This claim that Michael and Lisa Marie lived in separetly during their marriage was among the many lies and rumours that has been spread and accepted as truth....just like everything else in Michael's life..(sigh).
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I first saw this lie (I think) in a tabloid. When a tabloid reports something on Michael, and the mainstream media reports it a lot, I usually don't trust it. I always believed just the opposite. THEY LIVED TOGETHER.
 
I understand forgiveness, but the way she talked viciously about him over the years, for the Jacksons to invite her VIP to the memorial and allow her to come to the private funeral and to have access to Michael's crypt is a head-scratcher for me
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its prob becasue some of them are personal firends with her. so she got invited. if she were like debbie then i doubt she would have been.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
its prob becasue some of them are personal firends with her. so she got invited. if she were like debbie then i doubt she would have been.
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But that's the point. How can some of them be friends with her knowing the mean-spirited and spiteful statements, not to mention outright lies she told in the many interviews 2003-2008? I know some of them like Janet doesn't watch alot of TV; but I'm sure there are those in the family who do watch TV; not to mention, they read magazines and such. Look like word would have gotten around within the family what Lisa was saying. Even Jermaine called her out a few years ago in a interview.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
The only reason MJ married Debbie is because Katherine didnt want MJ's kids being born out of wedlock.
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Even if that's true, Debbie was a loyal friend to Michael for years and she gave him babies. Her name is on Prince and Paris's birth certificates. She's not just a surrogate.

elusive moonwalker said:
after june there was an argeeement for debbie to see the kids but her lawyers filed papers a good while back saying she still hadnt seen them.whether thats changed who knows
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Thanks for this info. So she's on it.

I hope it's not all too confusing for the kids. But the fact that she is listed as their mother (P and P) on their birth certificates and that Debbie signed Paris's birth certificate tells me Michael has told them things about her. Although in LWMJ Prince said he had no mother so I don't know.
 
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Memefan said:
I too have very mixed feelings about...I wish she would wise up & get rid of the scumbag & fight for the well being of the kids.

blah
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Yeah, it's hard to root for her when she's hanging around that leech.
 
enlightenu said:
But that's the point. How can some of them be friends with her knowing the mean-spirited and spiteful statements, not to mention outright lies she told in the many interviews 2003-2008? I know some of them like Janet doesn't watch alot of TV; but I'm sure there are those in the family who do watch TV; not to mention, they read magazines and such. Look like word would have gotten around within the family what Lisa was saying. Even Jermaine called her out a few years ago in a interview.
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Same could be said about Latoya. And Jermaine. And Randy.
 
How can some of them be friends with her knowing the mean-spirited and spiteful statements,
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because they prob have no idea or just dont care. considering what they have said about their own brother u think they really give a dam
 
Emerald said:
We have learned in the past that it was Debbie's decision for the children to go out in veils in order to protect their anonymity. I wonder where she stands currently on the amount of videos and photos of the children being leaked?
I'm surprised her name hasn't been brought up already in all of this.
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Well I guess she wouldn't like it. I don't know.. I have mixed feelings about her. She gave birth to those two beautiful children for Michael, and she defended him at times and that's a good thing. But then there are other things involving money, custody rights and Marc Schaffel.. but well I'm not about to start going into all that. I don't hate her at all and the photos of her crying at MJs grave really touched my heart, I felt so bad for her at that moment. I'm mixed.

I'm surprised she hasn't said anything in regard to these videos either, but she isn't their guardian, Michael left his children to Katherine and second choice Diana Ross rather than their actual mother..so there we go.

None of us know her relationship with the children, I feel uncomfortable even talking about it because its not our business. I did read from someone reliable that she has not had visitation with them yet, but that was a few months ago, she probably has now...

I wasn't going to reply to the LMP stuff but can't resist..

Ohood said:
when MJ was married to LMP , they did not also share a house or even lived together as a wife and husbad,,
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Tabloid lie which was made up to try to indicate that their marriage was a stunt to offset the child abuse allegations.

From the taped convo '02-

* Lisa.. we’re still friendly, but she’s running around. She just changed her number and we don’t have the new one yet.

-Did she get used to living in Neverland or was it too isolated?

*Lisa didn’t live at Neverland. We visited Neverland the way… I lived at her house in the city and every once in a while we visited Neverland. It’d be like our big fun weekend.

-was part of the attraction to Lisa Marie that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn’t have to be anxious that she was interested in you for the wrong reasons?

* Absolutely, and she didn’t take a penny. She didn’t want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here to take, you know.

-So that means there was almost like one girl in the whole world that you could marry because even a rich woman would want your name. You needed someone with money and a name. You were down to a Presley or a McCartney, something like that.

* I know. Lisa was great. She was a sweet person. But it’s hard to tie me down. I can’t stay in one place one time so that’s why I don’t know if I [can] be completely married all the time.
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Ohood said:
For LMP ,,,the Jacksons are afraid of her classy tongue
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Are you in the brain of the Jacksons? Katherine has been and is on good terms with LMP. They still met each other after MJ and LMP ended.
'her agenda to become the new late king wifey like mama':smilerolleyes: rubbish.

enlightenu said:
What can Lisa Marie do or say that can hurt the Jacksons? Remember they know that contrary to what she has been claiming during her series of Michael bashing interviews, Lisa was chasing after Michael to get him back as her husband. Including getting chummy with Katherine, Janet and Rebbie. I remember Jermaine talked about it years ago that Lisa Marie (after the divorce) was constantly contacting the family to find out where Michael was when he was on his History tour. So the Jacksons can expose Little Lisa too, if she tries to go there.
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You're right but do you know that they met each other A LOT of times after their divorce and whilst MJ was married to Debbie. You mention the HIStory tour - well they stayed in London and South Africa together when he was on HIStory Tour, and he invited Lisa and her kids to Thanksgiving and other family functions and occasions etc.

This is LMP and MJ in February 1998 after they'd divorced, and after the HIStory Tour and whilst he was married to Debbie (divorced in '99) and she was pregnant with Paris (born in April '98)... MJ took Lisa to the Ivy for her birthday.

http://www.img-teufel.de/img_Scannen00019e90fdd0jpg.jpg.html

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/apple_lutz99/Michael%20Jackson/image002.jpg

People also talk about how she wasn't there for him in his darkest time, well she was big time the first time around and the second time she did say he was not guilty I've seen her say it in interview, and she called him on the phone after the Bashir documentry aired and they arranged to meet.. though when she arrived at Neverland he'd forgotten and wasn't there.

There is lots of LMP bashing going on all the time, people seem to conveniently forget how Raffles said on his Twitter page that MJ and Lisa were still in touch last year. So any bad feelings seem to have been under the bridge.

And this apparently is from a fan who asked MJs bodyguards this question in private message on facebook, though there can't be proof of course without a screencap of the message -

Taryn ------- April 15 at 11:01pm
I was wondering if you ever saw or heard from Lisa Marie Presley while you were working for Michael? Are you going to discuss any of the women in his life in your book?
---------------------------------------------------

MJ's Bodyguard May 4 at 8:53pm
Ive been getting a lot of questions regarding this and I'll say this, there were 2 females that we were told if they called we were to put them through to him right away. One of those women was Lisa Marie. We will write about the people who truly cared for him and were there. Those 2 women were indeed close to him. That's all I am going to say about that. BJM
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Well, looks like both marriges were fake no matter what kind of fantasy some fans have about Debbie or LMP.
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im no fan of lisa but i highly dount that was fake. mj was never happier than when he was with her and lisa aswell probably. if it were fake you wouldnt be keeping it quiet for months and months and keeping your dates quiet.and then spend years after you divorced hanging out together. lisa bitchy actions after the divorce and her actions now tell me she loved mj very much
 
Asedora said:
Well, looks like both marriges were fake no matter what kind of fantasy some fans have about Debbie or LMP. Michael was just this kind of person and we have no choice but to accept this fact.
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Lisa Marie has said many times that their marriage wasn't fake. Why would you think that?
The marriage with Debbie was probably one of convenience but I truly believe that Michael and Lisa were in love. So what if their marriage wasn't "conventional" - it did involve the King of Pop and Elvis Presley's daughter after all. They weren't "conventional" people in a lot of respects.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
im no fan of lisa but i highly dount that was fake. mj was never happier than when he was with her and lisa aswell probably. if it were fake you wouldnt be keeping it quiet for months and months and keeping your dates quiet.and then spend years after you divorced hanging out together. lisa bitchy actions after the divorce and her actions now tell me she loved mj very much
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don't bother reasoning with that person they've got their very own ideas and perceptions about Michael.

Same could be said about Latoya. And Jermaine. And Randy.
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For real.
 
enlightenu said:
But that's the point. How can some of them be friends with her knowing the mean-spirited and spiteful statements, not to mention outright lies she told in the many interviews 2003-2008? I know some of them like Janet doesn't watch alot of TV; but I'm sure there are those in the family who do watch TV; not to mention, they read magazines and such. Look like word would have gotten around within the family what Lisa was saying. Even Jermaine called her out a few years ago in a interview.
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because half of them are doing same up till now.shaking head
 
Going to put my 2 cents worth in this discussion, simply like other members that were around during both the LMP and Debbie marriages.

LMP and Michael seemed to have that special "chemistry". They lived lightyears away from most of us with their history and their worlds. That "spark" between them was obvious, no matter how nonconventional their worlds were compared to ours. I can't place 110% blame on either one of them for why it didn't work, but I can understand it without getting into the finger pointing on either side. That's just another argument amongst members waiting to happen.

The relationship between Debbie and Michael seemed to me distinctly different. I think they "loved" each other, but in a different sense on both sides. Except for the Marc Shaffel thing (which is still mysterious to me), Debbie has remained tough and kept distant and quiet except when lashing out at the paparrazi and in a few other understandable situations. She gave him the children he longed for, and he "loved" her for that and for who she was inside in r/t to him.

In either the LMP/MJ or DR/MJ relationship, like in most relationships, there is no cookie cutter definition of what love "really" is. Given the varied backgrounds of all 3, I believe Michael loved and was/is loved by both Debbie and Lisa in their own unique life history roles and what shaped them as they grew.

As much as there may be many "reported" reasons for some to bash either LMP or DR, I just can't go there:no:- sometimes love cannot be defined or critiqued unless we are in the other's shoes and consider the entire picture and realize we simply were not there.
 
Rockin. said:
You're right but do you know that they met each other A LOT of times after their divorce and whilst MJ was married to Debbie. You mention the HIStory tour - well they stayed in London and South Africa together when he was on HIStory Tour, and he invited Lisa and her kids to Thanksgiving and other family functions and occasions etc.

This is LMP and MJ in February 1998 after they'd divorced, and after the HIStory Tour and whilst he was married to Debbie (divorced in '99) and she was pregnant with Paris (born in April '98)... MJ took Lisa to the Ivy for her birthday.

http://www.img-teufel.de/img_Scannen00019e90fdd0jpg.jpg.html

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/apple_lutz99/Michael%20Jackson/image002.jpg

People also talk about how she wasn't there for him in his darkest time, well she was big time the first time around and the second time she did say he was not guilty I've seen her say it in interview, and she called him on the phone after the Bashir documentry aired and they arranged to meet.. though when she arrived at Neverland he'd forgotten and wasn't there.

There is lots of LMP bashing going on all the time, people seem to conveniently forget how Raffles said on his Twitter page that MJ and Lisa were still in touch last year. So any bad feelings seem to have been under the bridge.

And this apparently is from a fan who asked MJs bodyguards this question in private message on facebook, though there can't be proof of course without a screencap of the message -
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That screen cap from the bodyguards was proven to be a lie. They were asked about it and said they never said it. How quick the dreams people have spread around the Mj universe. people who want things to be a certain way purposely go out to deceive other fans. For what? (Not you Rockin, I know you were not the originator of this screen cap)
People are not debating their relationship after their divorce (right after anyway). What they don't like is what she said from 2003 to 2008 when she was releasing her album and after. She was down right vicious to MJ. She said he was the worst mistake of his life. When asked if she thought he was guilty of molestation during 2003-08 she said, "I don't know. i didn't see anything... but I just don't know."
Isn't that a lot of back tracking? i'm sorry. Fans can pretend not to remember all of the stuff she said during this time or play it off as if it does not matter. but it matters to me. i can't stand people who have changes in feelings when it suites their interests. i don't like LMP. I can't stand her. She and her mother act like MJ was beneath them. What she says cannot be denied. She just bothers me.
But I in no way think their marriage was a lie. And for all of her backtracking and pretending, I think she loved him and the feeling was mutual. I have no problem with their relationship. whatever was private between them was not my business anyway. But in her recent years, her denial of him and her disdain for him, is very much public and out in the open.

I'm sorry that was my off topic rant. Let's get this thread back on topic.
 
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ginvid said:
(Not you Rockin, I know you were not the originator of this screen cap)
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Yes it's not from me, I said there isn't proof of that facebook message without a screencap of the message (showing it in its original form on facebook), not just a quote of it like I posted. My understanding was that the bodyguard hadn't yet answered fans asking whether it was true or not.

bgz said:
Going to put my 2 cents worth in this discussion, simply like other members that were around during both the LMP and Debbie marriages.

LMP and Michael seemed to have that special "chemistry". They lived lightyears away from most of us with their history and their worlds. That "spark" between them was obvious, no matter how nonconventional their worlds were compared to ours. I can't place 110% blame on either one of them for why it didn't work, but I can understand it without getting into the finger pointing on either side. That's just another argument amongst members waiting to happen.

The relationship between Debbie and Michael seemed to me distinctly different. I think they "loved" each other, but in a different sense on both sides. Except for the Marc Shaffel thing (which is still mysterious to me), Debbie has remained tough and kept distant and quiet except when lashing out at the paparrazi and in a few other understandable situations. She gave him the children he longed for, and he "loved" her for that and for who she was inside in r/t to him.

In either the LMP/MJ or DR/MJ relationship, like in most relationships, there is no cookie cutter definition of what love "really" is. Given the varied backgrounds of all 3, I believe Michael loved and was/is loved by both Debbie and Lisa in their own unique life history roles and what shaped them as they grew.

As much as there may be many "reported" reasons for some to bash either LMP or DR, I just can't go there:no:- sometimes love cannot be defined or critiqued unless we are in the other's shoes and consider the entire picture and realize we simply were not there.
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I think you're right there.
 
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