Latest on MJJC

Debbie Rowe

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, he answered about it. I am tring to find the reply. Give me a bit. I will PM it to you so we don't derail the thread Lol...well derail it anymore! :) Thanks!
 
elusive moonwalker said:
im no fan of lisa but i highly dount that was fake. mj was never happier than when he was with her and lisa aswell probably. if it were fake you wouldnt be keeping it quiet for months and months and keeping your dates quiet.and then spend years after you divorced hanging out together. lisa bitchy actions after the divorce and her actions now tell me she loved mj very much
Click to expand...

No kidding, one has to be blind not to see that there was genuine love between the two, it jumps at you through photographs.
What I heard in those interviews was a woman who loved, it didn't work for a number of reason and I hear a lot of lashing out out of hurt. If it's fine to do that on TV is another story but honestly, most of us have said very hurtful things about ex partners while steaming and hurting inside.

Secondly the idea of a "fake" marriage is fairly new thing since the idea of "marriage due to romantic love" is a fairly new one in human history as well. Marriage used to be a construction that served different purpose at different times in human history. Churches and religions wanted their own agendas,ideals and codes of moral conduct enforced- then you have the raising of children which was the centerpiece of what marriage used to be "all about". Marriage was a way of people working their way up the social ladder, keep society "at bay" etc, you name it.

These days people have all sorts of different ideas of what marriage is and isn't. There used to be a time when it was absolutely unthinkable that a married couple would decide to remain childless- is that a fake marriage as well? Even 50 years ago most people would have said, yes.

Just look at the debate of same sex marriage. Some people are convinced that's not a marriage.

So the construction of "fake marriage" is as hard to define as marriage itself. To some it's a religious sacrament, to some a legal product, to some the embodiment of successful romantic love defined my monogamous behavior.

There are many people who live part time separately, or in several houses, there are people who have long-distance and weekend- based marriages for whatever reason, some folks believe in separate bedrooms etc.

I wouldn't even know what a fake marriage is because marriage in human history has mostly been a construct of very practical aspects through the demands of society and it has molded our view of marriage.

To speculate on other people's marriages is a grand waste of time because usually only the 2 people involved know what is going on- and even then you could have more than one "truth".

Their marriage isn't any of my business, especially any judgement. People marry, things happen- it's called life.

Wether LMP or Debbie Rowe, I wished people would just take the fact that both were married to Michael Jackson for the fact that it is and leave the rest to those people whom it directly involved.
 
ginvid said:
People are not debating their relationship after their divorce (right after anyway). What they don't like is what she said from 2003 to 2008 when she was releasing her album and after. She was down right vicious to MJ. She said he was the worst mistake of his life. When asked if she thought he was guilty of molestation during 2003-08 she said, "I don't know. i didn't see anything... but I just don't know."
Isn't that a lot of back tracking? i'm sorry. Fans can pretend not to remember all of the stuff she said during this time or play it off as if it does not matter. but it matters to me. i can't stand people who have changes in feelings when it suites their interests. i don't like LMP. I can't stand her. She and her mother act like MJ was beneath them. What she says cannot be denied. She just bothers me.
But I in no way think their marriage was a lie. And for all of her backtracking and pretending, I think she loved him and the feeling was mutual. I have no problem with their relationship. whatever was private between them was not my business anyway. But in her recent years, her denial of him and her disdain for him, is very much public and out in the open.

I'm sorry that was my off topic rant. Let's get this thread back on topic.
Click to expand...

:clapping:

And that is my issue to this day with Lisa Marie and can't no one tell me that the Jackson's are'nt aware of this. She began the promo for her album saying she would not discuss him and its like after the first couple of questions she decided to unleash her hate towards him. I think we can all agree that Michael would've never thought to do that to her, in fact he never did! Michael is gone now and death has a way of changing people. Where Lisa is concerned it brought about a 360 degree turn from her, but her words will forever be there out in the public domain for all to see and hear. Whether they reconciled befor his death I do not know, but she obviously has some clout with the family if she was allowed to attend the funeral and also be able to go inside the Mausoleum by herself. Bottom line, MJ did not deserve to be treated as though he was dirt underneath both hers and her mothers shoes! Imagine how he must've felt!

As for Debbie, her continued association with Marc Schaffel will continue to make me wary of her every move......that man is no good and after what she said on the witness stand about him, I just don't get how all of a sudden they are both so friendly. Michael would never want his children around that snake!
 
Modulation Alert said:
No kidding, one has to be blind not to see that there was genuine love between the two, it jumps at you through photographs.
What I heard in those interviews was a woman who loved, it didn't work for a number of reason and I hear a lot of lashing out out of hurt. If it's fine to do that on TV is another story but honestly, most of us have said very hurtful things about ex partners while steaming and hurting inside.
Click to expand...

I was surprised at some of her reactions in interviews but that's what I think, she was lashing out, but yes we don't do it on TV.

I just don't like to judge too much when I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship.. only they know what happened, and for people here to say their marriage was a sham/lie/fake :no: that's tabloid.

Regarding what she said during 03-05 allegations.. I saw an interiview around 03 on TV where LMP was asked what she thought about the allegations and she replied something like 'Come on, if I thought he was guilty I would have nailed him to a tree by his ....'

Also I'd be interested in the dates of some of her interviews in 03 as there was that phone call from her and arranged meeting at Neverland (which MJ forgot about and wasn't there) after the Bashir doc aired in the US.

ExoticPrincess said:
Whether they reconciled befor his death I do not know, but she obviously has some clout with the family if she was allowed to attend the funeral and also be able to go inside the Mausoleum by herself.
Click to expand...

According to Raffles Van Exel in a Twitter post he made last year they were talking, so if that's true it shows MJ's true forgiving heart and nature.

Priscilla said it too on LKL I think - it's her I have the dislike towards, she didn't like MJ from the beginning. Larry asked Priscilla how she had been affected by MJ's death but she ignored that and replied about Lisa's reaction instead. Indicative of Priscilla's thoughts I think...she spoke without even speaking.

This thread has gone so off topic! It started about Debbie Rowe and the youtube videos. Good to discuss without arguing or bitching though.
 
I think Debbie IMO is mentally unstable. I am not saying that to be mean I just think that Marc is taken advantage of an unstable woman. I always remember Michael saying she is a wonderful person she could not handle it. I don't think she is a bad person but is easily led into things that blow up in her face
 
Rockin. said:
Regarding what she said during 03-05 allegations.. I saw an interiview around 03 on TV where LMP was asked what she thought about the allegations and she replied something like 'Come on, if I thought he was guilty I would have nailed him to a tree by his ....'
Click to expand...


Even though im not a huge fan of lisa. I know one thing for sure like she said , if he was guilty she definately would have done somethin bout it. She the " i take no s:censored: " kind of woman.
 
ginvid said:
That screen cap from the bodyguards was proven to be a lie. They were asked about it and said they never said it.
.
Click to expand...


I read that too.

Didn't Karen Faye say Lisa and MJ didn't end their friendship

in good terms?
 
rainny said:
I read that too.

Didn't Karen Faye say Lisa and MJ didn't end their friendship

in good terms?
Click to expand...


I think that woman is properly tellin porkies.....how would she know anyway?
 
I'm not sure. I haven't been really following Karen. Only what I have seen from other fans so I wouldn't want to attribute something to her erroneously.

I think Debbie is very sweet. I think giving MJ his children was an immeassureable gift. I think she may have made mistakes, but I think like Justhefacts said, maybe she is not strong enough to deal with people who are crafty and sneaky. maybe it was hard for her. I think she does care about the children. But to be honest, I think she does so only as an extension of MJ. I think she struggles with her relationship with the children. Abnd, she doesn't really know what exactly she wants. But this is just my opinion.
 
I'll always be grateful to debbie for giving michael his children
 
rainny said:
...by having been MJ's make-up person at the end

and/or having been in contact with Lisa after MJ

passed?
Click to expand...


I just meant like i doubt michael would have given her all the glory details bout his personal life with lisa. He was private person.
 
rainny said:
I read that too.

Didn't Karen Faye say Lisa and MJ didn't end their friendship

in good terms?
Click to expand...

I'm not a Karen "hater", but wouldn't surprise me if there was perhaps a little jealousy going on, maybe on both sides? And when there is a breakup, many times it's not on the best of terms during the heat of it all, but can still be amicable and even caring with time as the hurt diminishes. Then you add Debbie into the mix, 3 women part of Michael's life, a recipe for disaster if you ask me.
 
I agree. I have heard that Karen was very jealous of the women MJ had in his life. Shoot I don't even know him and sometimes I feel a little bit of jealousy. i wish I could have met him. When you have unreciprocated love, there is no telling what you will do. So I just take what Karen says with a pinch (sometimes a bucket) of salt. I don't necessarily discount what she says. but I would definitely like for it to be corroborrated somewhere else.
She seemed to have been angry towards Debbie at one time as well. but this seems to have subsided or at least eased down some.

MJ's life is filled with who knows and maybes. God only knows the real story behind the scenes.
 
Last edited:
a little side topic about Karen : I'm neutral about her. We all know that she has been a long time employee of Michael and therefore I'm sure she knows some stuff (definitely more than other people). However on the other hand she also says she wasn't with him 24/7, she wasn't with him at some time periods, hasn't met some of the people, had to go through people to mention her concerns etc so her information is also seems to be limited. And to me most things she says seem to be her opinion/perception and not necessarily what Michael felt or thought.

+ She is not really consistent with her information either. As far as Debbie goes I have both seen her talk negatively and positively about Debbie.
 
I don't love and I don't hate Debbie. She gave Michael two wonderful kids so I will never hate her. She made his dream come true but and she also did some shady things. I won't forget 'sociopath' comments 'f**k his defense' and how in 2005 she accused Michael that he took Prince and Paris illegally from the USA.
And her friendship with Schaffel bothers me very much. When I saw him with her at the Forest Lawn.....it's an insult to Michael
 
bgz said:
Going to put my 2 cents worth in this discussion, simply like other members that were around during both the LMP and Debbie marriages.

LMP and Michael seemed to have that special "chemistry". They lived lightyears away from most of us with their history and their worlds. That "spark" between them was obvious, no matter how nonconventional their worlds were compared to ours. I can't place 110% blame on either one of them for why it didn't work, but I can understand it without getting into the finger pointing on either side. That's just another argument amongst members waiting to happen.

The relationship between Debbie and Michael seemed to me distinctly different. I think they "loved" each other, but in a different sense on both sides. Except for the Marc Shaffel thing (which is still mysterious to me), Debbie has remained tough and kept distant and quiet except when lashing out at the paparrazi and in a few other understandable situations. She gave him the children he longed for, and he "loved" her for that and for who she was inside in r/t to him.

In either the LMP/MJ or DR/MJ relationship, like in most relationships, there is no cookie cutter definition of what love "really" is. Given the varied backgrounds of all 3, I believe Michael loved and was/is loved by both Debbie and Lisa in their own unique life history roles and what shaped them as they grew.

As much as there may be many "reported" reasons for some to bash either LMP or DR, I just can't go there:no:- sometimes love cannot be defined or critiqued unless we are in the other's shoes and consider the entire picture and realize we simply were not there.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. When Michael was married to Lisa, he was truly happy, in my opinion. When I saw photos of them then, I remember thinking, wow Michael is shining, he seems very happy. I think they were very much in love. Whatever happened between them later, I am really glad Michael had this love in this life. Lisa seems a very passionate woman so I am not really surprised she said all those things about MJ when they broke up. I think she was upset and angry. I know it was wrong of her to say those things, but I don't blame her. We all do crazy things sometimes, especially after a bad breakup. I think it's understandable and it's life.

As for Debbie, I have nothing against her either. She gave Michael his children, she supported him in court, she was there for him when he needed it the most. And it's all that counts, in my opinion.
 
enlightenu said:
What can Lisa Marie do or say that can hurt the Jacksons? Remember they know that contrary to what she has been claiming during her series of Michael bashing interviews, Lisa was chasing after Michael to get him back as her husband. Including getting chummy with Katherine, Janet and Rebbie. I remember Jermaine talked about it years ago that Lisa Marie (after the divorce) was constantly contacting the family to find out where Michael was when he was on his History tour. So the Jacksons can expose Little Lisa too, if she tries to go there.

I understand forgiveness, but the way she talked viciously about him over the years, for the Jacksons to invite her VIP to the memorial and allow her to come to the private funeral and to have access to Michael's crypt is a head-scratcher for me.
Click to expand...

:clapping:

There's also the letters she wrote Michael and he has been described as a pack-rat. I agree with most of your post; but it is the image of their brother and son that she can try to damage. It's not popular to do that now though and I've heard fans mention that they think she has something else in mind. Anyways, I didn't know Jermaine mentioned that. Thanks for sharing. Was that after LMP began to bash Michael in multiple interviews?

enlightenu said:
I have VERY mixed feelings about Debbie. I believe there is decency in her. But I have a very good memory also and I remember the various stunts she pulled when Michael was fighting for his life during the trial. Obviously she allowed decency to win over and she testified in Michael's favor--despite being prosecution witness. However, at the same time, it could have a cynical view due to the fact that Tom Mesereau had gobs of dirt on Debbie that he was more than willing and prepared to expose in the trial if she tried to sling dirt on Michael on the stand like the prosecution was planning for her to do.

Debbie's friendship/association with Marc Schaffel bothers me very much. Marc Schaffel is among the snakes that successfully slithered his way into Michael's life and when he didn't get his way he used the media and the courts to slander Michael and to blackmail him. Anyone who thinks he's hanging around Debbie out of a pure motive is kidding themselves.
Click to expand...

Regarding the bold, how do you know this? Although, I guess Tom Mesereau would have been prepared for Debbie to attack Michael on the stand.

And what were the various stunts she pulled?

ExoticPrincess said:
:clapping:

And that is my issue to this day with Lisa Marie and can't no one tell me that the Jackson's are'nt aware of this. She began the promo for her album saying she would not discuss him and its like after the first couple of questions she decided to unleash her hate towards him. I think we can all agree that Michael would've never thought to do that to her, in fact he never did! Michael is gone now and death has a way of changing people. Where Lisa is concerned it brought about a 360 degree turn from her, but her words will forever be there out in the public domain for all to see and hear. Whether they reconciled befor his death I do not know, but she obviously has some clout with the family if she was allowed to attend the funeral and also be able to go inside the Mausoleum by herself. Bottom line, MJ did not deserve to be treated as though he was dirt underneath both hers and her mothers shoes! Imagine how he must've felt!

As for Debbie, her continued association with Marc Schaffel will continue to make me wary of her every move......that man is no good and after what she said on the witness stand about him, I just don't get how all of a sudden they are both so friendly. Michael would never want his children around that snake!
Click to expand...

:yes:
 
Last edited:
virginia_woolf said:
I don't love and I don't hate Debbie. She gave Michael two wonderful kids so I will never hate her. She made his dream come true but and she also did some shady things. I won't forget 'sociopath' comments 'f**k his defense' and how in 2005 she accused Michael that he took Prince and Paris illegally from the USA.
And her friendship with Schaffel bothers me very much. When I saw him with her at the Forest Lawn.....it's an insult to Michael
Click to expand...

:no: :doh:

You are right; Schaffel's presence is an insult.
 
virginia_woolf said:
I don't love and I don't hate Debbie. She gave Michael two wonderful kids so I will never hate her. She made his dream come true but and she also did some shady things. I won't forget 'sociopath' comments 'f**k his defense' and how in 2005 she accused Michael that he took Prince and Paris illegally from the USA.
And her friendship with Schaffel bothers me very much. When I saw him with her at the Forest Lawn.....it's an insult to Michael
Click to expand...

I am glad she did not have access INSIDE Forest Lawn. Can you believe her taking that creep to his final resting place?

That is indeed an insult to MJ. Plain disrespect for DR to take that horrible man to MJ's final resting place.
 
MJJ:G.O.A.T said:
Regarding the bold, how do you know this? Although, I guess Tom Mesereau would have been prepared for Debbie to attack Michael on the stand.
Click to expand...

Tom Mesereau was talking about this in an interview. He said he had documents against Debbie but after her testimony for the prosecution he decided not to use it.
 
I just hope Debbie is helping to raise or assist with her children . I feel that Paris is alot like Debbie and she is going to need to find out where she get that trait from since it is not in her fathers family. Just like we say Alejandra need to supervise her kids Debbie needs to help supervise her kids
 
msladeevon said:
I just hope Debbie is helping to raise or assist with her children . I feel that Paris is alot like Debbie and she is going to need to find out where she get that trait from since it is not in her fathers family. Just like we say Alejandra need to supervise her kids Debbie needs to help supervise her kids
Click to expand...

but we don't know what was the agreement she had with MJ.

I spoke to a few people who attended the 2005 trial, and they described MJ's reaction to Debbie's appearance on the stand...and even though she was defending him, he seemed pretty cold to her.

I think she must keep the heat on the Jackson (Katherine)...to make sure the kids are well taken care of...but I think they all should respect what MJ wanted.
 
Last edited:
Memefan said:
but we don't know what was the agreement she had with MJ.

I spoke to a few people who attended the 2005 trial, and they described MJ's reaction to Debbie's appearance on the stand...and even though she was defending him, he seemed pretty cold to her.

I think she must keep the heat on the Jackson...to make sure the kids are well taken care of...but I think they all should respect what MJ wanted.
Click to expand...

This was my thought to...also..just to add to your post...just because a woman has a baby..it doesn't make her a mother...that is a title that is earned not given...so I think that Debbie has absolutely no interesting in helping raise those children...not saying she doesn't love them..after all she did give birth to them...she doesn't have that if you will "emotional" attachment to them that goes along with being a parent. And like you say...I think seh is doing a nice job respecting Michael's wishes.
 
msladeevon said:
I just hope Debbie is helping to raise or assist with her children . I feel that Paris is alot like Debbie and she is going to need to find out where she get that trait from since it is not in her fathers family. Just like we say Alejandra need to supervise her kids Debbie needs to help supervise her kids
Click to expand...

"Paris is strong like Debbie" Michael Jackson "TVGuid interview 2001".
 
debbie, i don't think she is mother material.i just respect her because she gave Michael the most precious gift.but i also think she is kind of obsess with him.but jacksons need 3rd party to keep tab on them .
 
None of us know what agreement Michael and Debbie had about the kids. It changed constantly all the time so no one will know for sure.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top